Can You Compare Victimhood When at War? (Z3 Podcast Ep. 21: Ariel Kahana)

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First of all, if we want, as we said, if we want to secure the future of the Jewish NORP people, and again, to me, of the free world, Israel GPE has to remain. But you know what? It's not only for us. It's for them. Why are the people of Gaza GPE suffering? Because of Hamas ORG. And I'm not talking about the sufferings they have now because of the war,because the Zahal PERSON is inside. I'm talking about what happened in Gaza for 15 years. Since Hamas took over, actually, even from before since Zarapatu PERSON, became in power. Sorry. Okay? They were living.apa to, we came in power. Sorry. Okay?They were living, I mean, we support democracies. They were living under a brutal extreme Islam regime in Gaza GPE. If you care about democracy values, you should be the first to support Israel to eliminate Hamas ORG. Otherwise, it means that you support extreme Islam NORP dictatorships.

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Hello, and welcome to the Zidri ORG podcast. I'm Amitai Freeman, the director of the Zidri ORG project. And in this episode, I had a conversation with Ariel Kahana PERSON. He's a senior correspondent covering diplomatic affairs. And he is also an analyst on Channel 14 in Israel GPE. In this conversation, we heard a lot about the October 7th war, the mood in Israel GPE, how people perceive the necessity of the war, how discourse has changed, and of course,the interconnectedness between Israeli Jews and Diaspora Jews NORP and how we are all impacted by this moment, whether we like it or not agree or disagree with what is going on. And the importance of remembering that as we navigate through this difficult moment, it's an incredible conversation, I think, and very insightful and gives an honest and very truthful kind of representation of what's going on in many, many folks on the street. Of course, it's a specific experience. And yet, I find it very enriching and meaningful for anybody who wants to hear about Israel and Israeli NORP psyche in this moment beyond just what is reported on the major news outlets.I hope you enjoy this episode with Ariel Kahana PERSON. I know I did. Please follow us on our various channels and platforms. And I hope you enjoyed this episode podcast with Ariel Kahana PERSON. Take a listen. Welcome, Ariel Kahana. It's a great pleasure to have you here on the Z3 podcast. You know, we met in 2018 in the conference all those years ago before I even started here in this position. But I'm excited that we're able to reconnect. I've been following, of course, your work. And in a minute, you'll introduce yourself, but just to remind our listeners in the ZE3 PRODUCT project podcast,what we do is we expand the conversations we try to have at our conference to this platform and this medium as well. And so we host a variety of thinkers, journalists, rabbis, activists, and have the opportunity to have a conversation about their area of expertise and what they're thinking about in this moment. And so it's a great pleasure to have a conversation about their area of expertise and what they're thinking about in this moment. And so it's a great pleasure to have Ariel PERSON join ustoday. And I'm excited to get started. So maybe, you know, before we do, maybe Ariya PERSON just like a, you know, a sentence or two about your background and your, your, what you're doing these

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days. Okay. So Shalom, Amitai and tadabbas PERSON thanks a lot for helping me i must say in the beginning that to me it's very important i mean for my soul i would say to be in touch with other jews all around the world that's the reason i'm sitting here

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quite late in the evening in israel and but it is important for me that's the reason I'm sitting here quite late in the evening during Israel GPE.

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But it is important for me. That's the reason why I came to, what was it, San Francisco GPE, right?

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In Palo Alto GPE, yeah. Six years ago. Palo Alto, yes. And so on. And actually, it was my,

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it was important for me, of course, before the war, but now after what happened or what is happening since October 7, I think those in our people, I mean, it's Jewish NORP people who didn't

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understand before how much we are won, whether we want it or no, I believe now most of us

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understand it much better and unfortunately in a very sad circumstances but but that's where it is so to me just you know i mean talking with you and as people who will hopefully listen to us and see us just another small step to try to be in touch so uh so i thank you for the opportunity for that. Yeah, of course.

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Okay, great.

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So you want to ask who I am if I get you right, right?

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Yeah, just give us a little bit insight for those who are not familiar and don't follow your writing and your coverage online.

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Thank you for that. It's a very philosophical question.

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Who am I and what I'm doing here? Yeah. And I'm asking this question. I am I and what I'm doing here?

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And I'm asking this question, I mean, every morning and every night. But, you know, since we are here and since Kadoosh Baruch, God PERSON gave me some positions, so then I try to do the best I can with it. So I am 50 years old. I live in Geva bin Amin GPE, which is, you can say,suburbs of Yurushalay GPE, a settlement to be, you know, the formal definition. But it is very close to Yurashalim GPE. I'm married to Limou. We're married for 24 years. It's going to be now. We have seven children, Balchashem PERSON.One of them was a soldier. One of them will become a soldier very soon. And so on. And my work is being a journalist, which, by the way, has happened by coincidence. It's another issue which, you know, every morning I find myself still a journalist,so I keep writing, keep talking, and etc.

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But of course it could change every day, who knows.

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And today I'm working most, I mean, my main job is Israel GPE, I own newspaper. We have an English LANGUAGE edition as well, Golden Reel ORG and it's online. But Israel, yeah, Israel, first of all, is the most distributed newspaper in Israel GPE. I'm covering diplomatic issues,which actually means Israel GPE ties with the world and with the Jewish NORP communities as well, because I can tell you, you know, I've been in dozens of dozens of states, all the ones of all. Most of them were joining or covering trips of Israel GPE leaders. Most of them was with Netanyahu, because it's the last 15 years.So I've been with him, and with Bennett and Lapid PERSON as well, when they were in office or in other events, all the ones in the world. And every state, every country you go, you see the Jewish NORP community has a unique role regarding the ties between that country and Israel GPE. So to me, diplomatic issues and Israel and other states is always connected to the Jewish NORP communities in every, in every state all around the globe.So actually that's how I got involved in those issues of peoplehood, Jewish NORP peoplehood. And on top of that, I mean, on top of writing, and I'm talking with you now from Channel 14 ORG, the Israeli NORP TV, which is very popular here. I'm here almost every evening. So a panel member, which is very nice.For me, it's the first time to do TV in certain years, so almost certain years of journalism. So it's a very nice experience, very popular, as I said. And, you know, so I'm dealing a lot with politics, with actually you can say every important issue that we have here in Israel GPE,and we had a lot of them before October 7. We have, unfortunately, much more since the war begun. And yes, I would say that those days, the current days,I mean, since the war began, actually the last five months is, right? Why? I think it's all about the world. It's all about the world. I'm trying, I know, while talking,because I'm trying to, remember if I was dealing, I mean, covering any issue which is not related to the war, did I have any other story? And I think that if I'm not wrong, the answer is no.Because everything, as if everything is related to the war, most of it directly, some of it, not directly, but the war is all around us and everywhere. And although, you know, it's not, I mean, the military effort now in Gaza GPE is not as strong

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as it used to be in the beginning, it's still, again, it's the main topic and everything

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is related to that. I don't know for how long, but that's definitely the main focus. And I know as well that it is relevant to you guys, the other side of the world, because I am trying at least to follow what's going on in Jewish NORP communities, and it doesn't look pleasant from here, I would say. Yeah, certainly. There's

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a lot going on, but I want to pick up on a few things, and we'll get to what's happening here and the connection to the two. But I think that a good first step is for our audiences who might not be as well-versed in what's going on in Israel GPE,not in terms of the fact, I'd say the facts of the war, right? Like people can follow, you know, there's a lot of coverage wherever you look. But what I think people are not so intimately familiar with is, I'd say, the emotional and psychological state of Israel GPE. You know, growing up in Israel GPE, war was a fixed, you know, it was a piece of just growing up.You know, it was either more intense or less intense. And certainly, I think, in real, you know, it was a piece of just growing up, you know, it was either more intense or less intense. And certainly I think in recent memory, this is unique in its length, and its intensity, both what started it and also the response. And I think that that is something that most folks aren't familiar with is like, what is it doing to Israeli NORP society in that perspective, right? Like, what is the emotional psychological environment that israelis and Israelis NORP are experiencing so i'll try to answer and of course you know

Speaker 0656.38s - 715.14s

it's my perspective it's it's it's i mean in a ways that you know everyone is reacting in a different way just just yesterday uh a colleague of mine friend of many years she tells him that she's a I mean, in a ways that, you know, everyone is reacting in a different way. Just yesterday, a colleague of mine, a friend of many years, she tells them that she's afraid. And I'm talking with you about people who are living in the center of Israel GPE. Because of what happened in October 7th, some people are really still afraid.And they understand, you know, logically, that no terrorist is going to come to their home. But after what happened, you know, some of the people are afraid and they cannot control this fear. So that is just one feeling, I would say. So you have it all from all kinds. You have, first of all, and that's, and first of all, I think the vast majority is 90%, even more of Israelis NORP,

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understand that this war is for our survive.

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If we will not win it, it's going to be very problematic. And therefore, you saw so many heroes just jumping inside the fire on the first, and there in the first hours without no one calling them. And after that, you saw all the, I don't know what you said in English LANGUAGE, all the espadim of those of the, of the, the eulogies. Yeah. Okay, thank you saw all the, I don't know, to say it in English, all the espedim of the...

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The eulogies. Yeah.

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Okay, thank you. Of the mothers and of the widows, which gave so much power to so many people with so much inspiration. And you see parents, and I know some of them, I mean, it's a friend of mine,friends of mine, who lost their sons in the wall. And they still, and of course, their pain, they suffer. But at the same time, wait, hold on.

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There was a whole lag there froze for seconds. They said in the same time there was a lot of pain. Yeah, we'll clean it up. There was the eulogies, the mothers, and parents and wives and widows that you've, and something that you know and a sense of inspiration and pain, and at the same time, they must continue.

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Yeah.

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And not only continue, we must win.

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We must do all the way to the end to have, like maybe saying, a complete victory, not 90%, not 95, and not 85.

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It has to be a 100% victory, which maybe later if you want, if you want, we can go to what does it mean.

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But if it's a consensus that if we will not, we will not be sure that we won this war, the future implications might be very negative. But you get this message, I mean, even from people who lost or paid the highest price that men can pay in our lives. So what I want to say by that is that you have all kinds of feelings. Of course, some people are afraid, as I said, some people are even talking about living in the country.

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I'm very, very sincere with you.

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living in the country. I'm very, very sincere with you. You have about, I think today it's about 150,000 people who are evacuated still five months living out of their homes in an hotels or other places. Like they say, it's a jail. It's not an hotel. It's a jail. Because, you know, hotel is a nice space for one, two, three days. Not for five months. Not with kids. Not that you are living in a very tiny home with your children. And you don't cook for children.You don't give them the food they like. You are telling, you are told that you can eat just between six to nine. And if you want to have some snack, I don't know, at 12, there's no place to go. Because the food room in the hotel is locked at this moment. And I'm talking about kids who like this food and that food and so on. And of course course all of themwere killed out from the communities from the schools from the teachers and and it goes to you know to my children that for the first weeks of the world didn't learn in schools they were at home the principal of my smallest daughter he's he's in the war since the first day, and he didn't come back. I mean, he's alive, but he's still fighting, but he just didn't come back to the school.He came one day to visit. So you have it all over you, and you have it in, as I said, in all kinds of feeling of power of inspiration, of fear of everything. And if you want to ask about the long-run implications, the long-run conclusions,the long-run insights, to me, it's too early to call. I mean, we can talk about, you know, some sorts I have. Yeah.

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But we really cannot know where it will go to

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because we are still in the middle,

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maybe even just in the beginning of it.

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Let's just say that there will be another war much more serious with Hezbollah ORG. So all what we saw in those last five months is just the beginning of what might be much, much worse. But that's where we are. And all those difficulties,and there are many difficulties. I think people here are determined, determined that we have no other choice, as I said, than winning because it's not only for us. I mean, not only for the Jews NORP here. It's for the entire Jewish NORP people all around the world.For the Jewish NORP history, it's for, to me at least, it's for the most basic values of being a free man in our world. To me, it's very clear. This war is not only about us. Here is Jews in Israel GPE. It's about the entire free world, but, you know, that's, I don't know, politics and internationalpolitics and so on. But again, I mean, because you ask me, what does it mean?

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Yeah. That's what the war is meaning, at least for me. Yeah. I mean, it's very, the intensity of the emotions is, it comes across very clearly. And I think that for those of us who are intimately, you know, either there or have, you know, for me, yes, I am farther away, but still, you know, very much immersed in it through friends and family. I think that is clear.And what I, what I have trouble and I'm, you know, trouble in translating for some people here is, you know, you and I might say we don't have a choice, right?

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Like this is an existential war. We understand the implications kind of intrinsically.

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We understand that if the war isn't one decisively, and I know that there's conversations about what that exactly means, we understand. We understand what that means. But what I'm also seeing here, and I'm hoping maybe we can help, maybe we can articulate it together is like, what is, how do we tell that story, right? Because there are folks here saying, yes, and is there a limit? Right.Like the war can't really be decidedly, you can't win it decisively. There's huge, you know, human suffering on the other side, right? And how are we okay with that? Now, I have my answers, right? And, but I'm curious to hear, like, because if it's unanimous in Israel GPE, right? You and I were one people, but if it crosses the political spectrum in Israel GPE, how does that discourse come about?Like, how do people talk about it in that way? Folks who won't typically find themselves on the more, you know, a hawkish side of things or more on the dovish. How do they justify this necessity of war in this moment? justify this necessity of war in this moment?

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So, you know, I'm, as I talked before, I'm for 15 years now, I'm covering diplomatic issues. And that includes briefings and discussions with many foreign diplomats. I can tell you that just yesterday, we had a meeting with, let's call it a Western diplomat, because I'm not allowed to say from which country he was, but it's a very non-significant Western country and not the US GPE.Okay? But until October 7, as you said, I was always on the hockey side. Usually the only one, maybe sometimes one would join me. Because most of the media here, as you know, is let's say, central left. And what is happening since October 7 is that I'm not the most hokish guy in the room. Not anymore.And I'm talking with you about people from, again, the center left, who didn't share my views on the right side of the political map all those years. The way they are talking now is the language. Sometimes it's even stronger than mine. And the way Israeli Jews NORP understand what happened and understand the threat is, as you said, is existential.And now, I can prove it to you logically. You can say, you know, I'll tell you a story. I want to tell youa short story. Many years ago, I visited in the Jewish NORP community of Switzerland GPE, of Zirich GPE,like you say in Yibu GPE. Right? Now, the Jewish community in Syriq GPE was not suffering during the Holocaust because the Nazis didn't get inside Switzerland GPE. And, of course, Switzerland cooperated with the Nazis NORP.But the Jewish community was notound at all in the Holocaust EVENT. And so I was there with my father and my brother, and we had some discussions. And the message is the Haredi NORP community over there. And the message they told us is kind of, we don't share your Zionist values because we are here for thousand yearswe are safe, everything is all right and we're going to be here for another thousand years and nothing's going to happen because here in Switzerland GPE, it's okay for the Jews and you know what happened in the last weekend? A Jewish member of the Haredo community in Syriq GPE was a time.Not for the first time, by the way, but in this case, it was a very painful attack. He was hit quite strongly. So, and now you guys in America GPE, I know what, I mean, I see from here what you are going through. I can't say I know because I'm not there. I'm here. But it seems to me, and we see it, that there are many threats for Jews NORP over there in America, because they are, not because of Israel, because they are Jews NORP. So, at least to me,it tells that there is no question why this is an existential war, not only for Israel GPE and not only for Israeli Jews NORP, but for the entire Jewish NORP people. And again, for the entirefree world in my view. But we saw and we still see in the most negative ways there is how much we are connected with each other.If before the world we had this illusion that we can have, how do we say it, a blind eye with what's going on with our bosom system on the other side of the world. And it doesn't matter if I am as an Israeli NORP Jew has this illusion that I can ignore Jewsin the other side of the world or the Jews in America GPE has these illusions that can ignore me. Now, again, in the most negative and painful way, it's clear we cannot have this blind eye. We must watch one each other.We must watch the back one of each other, trying to help and secure and so on. And by the way, just what I'm talking with you now, a friend living in New Jersey who is bringing equipment from the beginning of the war, he's trying to call me,because tell me some updates, I don't know, about he's bringing helmets and many other stuff to the soldiers. So you see, I mean, and I know the amounts of the money were unbelievable that came here, still coming.And I know the support came from American NORP Jews and actually used all the ones about here is very known. You know, for years, I mean, since Samita PERSON, you're into stuff, so, you know, for years, it was, for years, Jewish NORP diaspora, in my media stuff, it was not an item.It was kind of, everybody understood, yes, it is important to keep good ties with Jews in the other side of the world, but it was never an item in the news. It was never strong enough item, strong enough story to tell about.Not anymore. Today, the donations, the help, and by the way, and the suffering of Jews NORP in the other side in other places in the world, it is a story here.Because now in one second, in one horrible second, everybody understand, again, that we have just one another. We are tiny people connected all around the world. And those differences, I mean, again, in the most painful way we all understand now how the differences between us are not important, are not important. I won't say it all,but it's definitely not the first, shouldn't be the first priorities, the first topics that we have to discuss. The first issues we have to discuss and we have to deal with is how to secure the future of the Jewish people in Israel GPE, all around the world, and, et cetera.And again, we paid a very high price to get this lesson. But I guess, and as far as I know, you can tell me, now the eyes of most of the people are open. That's at least what I get from being here in Israel GPE. Yeah.

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So that's an interesting point because I think that there's a, I mean,

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we'll first talk about this idea of the eyes open here,

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but I do, I have a question about the sense of cohesion in Israel GPE. And we'll get there in a minute. There are several surveys, and we're seeing different kinds of trends here in the American NORP Jewish community. And while there has been a pretty significant rise in how people think about their relationship to Israel and Judaism post-October 7th, everybody feels more connected, certainly.There is still a very noticeable gap generationally. So I think folks who are like over 40, I don't remember the exact, I'm thinking about a specific survey that I saw. I think it's like over 40-ish-40. It's like at the high 70s, 80s, people are feeling, you know,in like an increase. And then younger-ish, it's like at the high 70s, 80s, people are feeling, you know, in like an increase. And then younger, it is, it did rise significantly, but it's in the, I'd say, 40s. 40% feels strong connection to Israel GPE.

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So I think there is a concern here. There's an angst in the Jewish NORP community about this generational.

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And I know, like, part of that's like a Jewish NORP neurosis, right? Like, is the next generation going to be as, you know, observant as we are and as connected as we are throughout Jewish NORP history. It's not unique to this moment. And also, we are seeing a lot of people who are very, who identify very strongly as Jews NORP, right? These not people are saying I'm not, like, but through a Jewish lens, say, what Israel GPE is doing, not in my name, not, you know, this is, this is, this is, this is it? So while there's an improvement, there's still a sizable amount of people who are,we're kind of feeling that piece. And so I, we kind of see, but we see both of that. We see both of those things. We're seeing a lot of it. And I, and I'm curious, A, is that come across in Israel GPE at all? Is that like something that's talked about? And B, maybe your thoughts on that data points.

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So first of all, to me, I mean, I get it and I'm okay with critics about Israel GPE, including functions. Of course, I would like everyone to understand us and support us and so on. But what is important for me is that even people who disagree with me or disagree with Israel GPE moves, Israel GPE steps and so on. First of all, we understand that we are one.Whether we agree or disagree, we are one. That's, to me, it should be the beginning. And we are connected, and whether we like it or not. I mean, we can see ourselves, some of us can see ourselves as not responsible and divided one from each other. Our enemies don't see it this way.That's for sure. Okay? And again, the rallies you have in America GPE, the hate rallies you have in America GPE, the attacks you get in America GPE is unfortunately a very sad message that even if you want to run away,you can't do it. Okay? Now, Israel GPE is here. Israel GPE is doing what he understand it has to do. Maybe we are right. Maybe we are wrong.Of course, you know, I'm living here, and I have my opinions about the government and about what the army do. And, you know, we are Jews NORP, so we have at least two, three, four opinions, right? Yeah.So, yeah. So naturally, it's not that I agree with everything, but that's my one and only Jewish NORP state. I have no other. And I have no doubt that the Jewish NORP people has no other future than this miracle, which is the state of reason, and this miracle is now under a risk. Okay, you know, I'll tell you, I had a conversation with a friend.She is a lady in the media staff. She was living in one of the kibbutzine near the border in Gaza, Renouin the first day. She's still in Tel Aviviv in an hotel with four boys. Just imagine what it is to be in five months with four boys in a tiny room in a very good hotel. But, okay, but still it is what it is.And she told me, you know what are you know, I have no ideology. I don't care. If I could, I would go to a different country. So I told her, let's call her Daniel PERSON. I told her, Danielle PERSON, what do you think will happen?Let's go, you're going to the UK GPE. What do you think will happen? You will have two choices. The first one is to be who you really are, which is a Jewish, Israeli NORP woman. The other option will be to hide your identity, to change your name, to change your kids' name, to delete their Hebrew LANGUAGE, to delete their accent,to cut them from their grandparents. That's the options you have. That's it. It means you can't run away. And you know, I had in my family, my parents, I didn't tell you, my parents are both Holocaust EVENT survivors. Were kids. I mean, my mother was a baby.My father was a boy. In the Holocaust, they still alive, oh, Hasham.

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Both in their 80s, of course.

Speaker 01924.06s - 1993.56s

And my mother had an aunt that in the 30s escaped from Germany to the U.S. to America GPE. And about 30 years, I mean, since the 30s until the 60s, they escaped to Judaism ORG. And said, we saw what happened. We don't want any more ties with the Jewish NORP people. So they kept going with it for, as I said, three decades.And then, unfortunately, she got cancer. And when she got cancer, she came back to the family. They came to visit Israel GPE. And actually, they came back. Because, again, we can't run away. You know, and I guess you know that.And I guess our listeners, on people who watch us, we know it. You know, that's guess you know that, and I guess our listeners, on people who watch us, we know it. You know, that's, I don't know how you say to English LANGUAGE. You know, say, I'm not seeing the people who are living in Spain. Yeah, the conversals.

Speaker 11993.72s - 1996.4s

Yeah, the conversals. Yeah. In the Inquisition EVENT.

Speaker 01996.4s - 2002.12s

So, you know, how many of them keeping some customs

Speaker 12002.12s - 2005.48s

and want to come back to the Jewish NORP people

Speaker 02005.48s - 2116.42s

hundreds of hundreds of years later. Not everyone, of course, there's no question, some people left the Jewish NORP people forever. I mean, if it wasn't so, we were like the Chinese, one billion people today, right?No question. You can run, you can run away. But for most of us, I would say, it won't hold on. Because you just like to run away from who you are. And on and all, you don't want to do it. And by the way, you can run away.I guess your kids or your grandkids, we look for the roots. And at least some of them will come back. But in any case, going back to our current reality, the Jewish people in these days is very troubling days. To me, it is a beginning of a very problematic era. Whatever going to happen here, whatever going to happen in America GPE,we now see the threats in our own eyes. We see it not only here in Israel GPE, we see it again all over the free world. I can tell you that I'm going to be in two weeks in London for covering what's going on there. The difficulties over there are very serious.Again, over there in London, in the UK GPE, their attacks on almost on daily basis. You know, I'll tell you, preparing this visit, a master told me today that for 11 years old son, traveling, going in the train every day to school, people are 11 years old son traveling going in the train every day to school people are 11 years old childthey're shouting to him that free Palestine probably he has a Kippa so I don't know so the recognizing as Jewish

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so so

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so it's again it's it's an entire Jewish NORP people problem we have to face it and I meanagain I believe we have no other choice to fight it because otherwise the other side will have a victory and it's going to be very very painful if they will win much moremuch more pains that we already had yeah so i mean it's not

Speaker 12148.26s - 2218.92s

it's very sobering it's not a you know it's not a it's not a very i mean the optimism of like we we will get through it we don't have another choice i think is an ethos that israelis has like you know there's no you know the idea of any erets a chere that we don't have another land is something that kind of drives a lot of people's sense of mission and kind of decision-making process.And I'm curious to ask a little bit about the, you mentioned how there's consensus around the necessity of the war. I know there's a variety of ideas of like what that actually looks like. Is it enough? Is it not enough? Is it too much? But all in all, there's a consensus. But, you know, up until October 6th, the country was split and very, very deep divisions. And the sense that I'm getting, and you're, of course, you're there so you can, you know,and you're in the media apparatus, so you see it first hand. Are we returning to those divisions now a little bit? Are we still kind of as united, as people are saying we are, or are we trying to see a little fraying in the sense of togetherness in this moment? It's a very good question.

Speaker 02219.12s - 2227.18s

I think it's confusing. In a way, and by the way, it's an in erratic, what do you say, in renterity, right?

Speaker 12227.24s - 2234.4s

In heretic problem, you have always the gap between the media and where people are.

Speaker 02235.1s - 2418.84s

Right. You hate it always. Because the media, you know, has its own role, its own wave, its own way, its own circle. It's what I'm looking for. The media has its own role, its own wave, its own circle. That's what I'm looking for. The media has its own circle.And the people are, let's say, you know, most of the media is left, but here most of the people are voting for the right, right? So just one example. So if you follow the media, you get the Twitter ORG, right, you get the impression that once again we are divided and you have demonstrations and stopping theblog the I along road, et cetera, et cetera. It's not what's going on the ground. By the way, from both sides, from both sides, I mean, the right side those who supported the reform not even put it on the table.I mean, it's not, it's not even beginning to begin. And from the other side, again, it's clear to everyone, almost everyone. Again, you do have from thousands, you do have some few thousands of people who aren't trying to, to go back to where we are.But they do not have the massive support they had last year. And I'm very happy for that because we, again, we have no luxury now to go to internal fights, not at all. I can tell you again, I'm coming from the right side, but I'm supportive of this unity government that you can't imagine. We have to go together.We have to go together. And I believe 70, even 80% of the people here show the same position. So, you know, the media have to show, and I'm a media person, but we have to show conflict. We have to say, because, you know, the media have to show, and I'm a media person, but we have to show conflict.We have to say, because, you know, if we, everyone will sit with each other, so we have to, we have to show a show. We have to show a conflict. We have to show disagreements. We have to show argues. But practically, you know, grass have to show argues. But practically, you know, grasswood, on the ground, people just want to go, understand. We have to go together, want to go together. Now, of course, you will see the social networks, you will see disagreements, you will see some negative stuff. That is part of our life in this era.But when it comes to reality But when it comes to reality, when it comes to reality, and sorry, I forgot the politicians. Unfortunately, the politicians are going back to do what some of them are going back to do what they used to do, which is the nasty politics, unfortunately. But if you go to the public,I didn't see a poll in last days, but I'm always trying to fill in the polls, and I have friends from both sides, of course. Again, it's clear we have to go together from all the reasons we discussed before.

Speaker 12419.38s - 2452.74s

Yeah, so, I mean, that's helpful. And of course, there's a lot of similarities what's happening here in the U.S. GPE with the internal, you know, with the elections and everything. And the role of media. I mean, media, yes, needs to show conflict, certainly. And social media is just that on steroids because the turnover and the news cycle is much faster.So it's just, and the algorithm, there's lots of talk about that. You and I don't have to go into that. But certainly there's a level of, it seems. But end at the same time, I mean, there are, I'm curious to hear your thoughts and like maybe two things that come to mind that I know that our front is.

Speaker 02452.74s - 2456.28s

First. You repeat, please, I'mita. I lost you for a second.

Speaker 12456.58s - 2461.74s

Yeah, okay. So I said, certainly social media and media does that, that whole polarization.

Speaker 02461.74s - 2465.6s

And there's overlap here. We're seeing that it's a problem it's a societal

Speaker 12465.6s - 2472.32s

problem um of kind of pushing people apart and and i'm and i'm comforted to hear that in israel

Speaker 02472.32s - 2475.92s

on the street level on the grassroots level yes there's the politicians yes there's media but

Speaker 12476.48s - 2494.52s

that still isn't there and at the same time there's two instances i'm curious to hear your thoughts about um one is like more in the geopolitical, and as it comes to the U.S., which is Gantz PERSON's recent visit, and the whole, you know, Bibi PERSON was mad, Bibi wasn't mad, you know, he should have gone.

Speaker 02494.68s - 2497.48s

And that's kind of the obvious stuff I was referring to.

Speaker 12497.48s - 2561.66s

Right, right. And it's my assumption that a lot of that stuff is performative, right? In other words, like, when, you know, I think that maybe I'm giving too much credit here, but I imagine that that Bibi understands why Gans PERSON needs to go, but he could never admit it publicly, right, because of his base and because of his voters. Maybe I'm being too charitable, so I'm curious to hear your thoughts.I mean, that's a, but I want to hear about his trip. And the other thing is this whole thing with the ultra-Orthodox NORP in there and the need for them to, you know, this whole Hociyos, the law trying to, try and, you know, this age-old thing of how do we get more ultra-Orthodox folks to participate in the, in society in general, and specifically in the military, I think, is a piece that folks are feeling angry about, particularly as the toll, the death toll is going up for Israeli NORP soldiers, people are being called, you know, gap years are being shortened, people are being called in from yeshivot, you know, from the religious public, you know, whatever, shortened and the Khadim are kind of untouched. So I'm curious about those two things. I know they're separate, but just as a, maybe as a barometer of like the internal cohesion.

Speaker 02561.96s - 2567.2s

What does that look like? So you just asked two or three very tiny, easy questions.

Speaker 12567.2s - 2571.9s

Small, small. Just an observation. An observation.

Speaker 02571.9s - 2575.2s

Let's start with guns, like guns. Yeah, about the trip.

Speaker 12575.2s - 2577.3s

And Kamala Harrison PERSON, she said.

Speaker 02577.3s - 2654.56s

So, so, so I hope it's okay. You know, and now you will say I'm politicians that's not answering the questions. I want to, I want to touch the issue you mentioned before. I mean, I want to a little bit explore it about the social networks and the media and so on. So because to me it's kind of the basics that all the other stuff come after them.Look, I'm a media person. Of course, I'm not going to say, I'm for free speech. I'm for democracy. I mean, you know, I have a theory. I can show you that when I give some talks and then, you know, briefings and so on, I always show, I didn't claim to do it,but I will show you. I visited China a few years ago, actually twice. And since I'm a journalist, every time I came to the hotel, this nice paper, I hope you can see it, was waiting on my table. And what it says, it's, you see, it's the list, I mean, it says here that the internet is open in China GPE. You just can't follow Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, Google, New York Times and Bloomberg ORG. Okay?

Speaker 12654.86s - 2656.76s

That's, that's more or less the message.

Speaker 02657.26s - 2658.9s

So I'm for free speech.

Speaker 12660.9s - 2666.64s

And it's a basic value in our society.

Speaker 02668.64s - 2908.08s

But, and I think we could solve this problem even before the war, but we understand now how it affects us even more. There is a crisis in our democracies. It's all over the globe. I mean, maybe in Australia GPE, it's okay. But you had in the last year's crisis, I mean, very serious political crisis.In America, in Israel, in the UK, in Italy, in Germany, now in Holland GPE, and in many other, many other people in Belgium, I think in Spain as well. And to me, there is a very clearly link between the social networks and this fundamental crisis of Western democracies. So I know it's not that I have an answer how exactly to solve, but at least let's, we have to be aware to the problembecause we understand that our democracies, they're not walking the way we wanted to work because it's weakening us. We are not dealing. I mean, some of the problems we have, our leaders, our leaderships are not handling those problems the way they should because of social networks. And we are not choosing the best leaders we have because of social networks, because of social networks. And we are not choosing the best leaders we havebecause of social networks, because of conspiracies, because of fakeness. And, and, I'm sorry, and we pay, we are paying very high prices for that.And I'm not taking your political side. It's not that, you know, it's the problem of faith in the right wing and the left is okay. Not in here, not in other places.It's a fundamental problem we have in our democracies, in our era, and in my eyes, it is weakening our democracies. It is weakening the free wall. And in my eyes, it is weakening our democracies. It is weakening the free world. And all the negative forces in the world, which is China. I mean, the non-democratic one, China, Iran, Russia GPE,Moscow is not international threat. But at least those three countries are using our weakness for, you know, challenging us. To me, it is all, it's, it is beginning there. Now, the end of it, or maybe not the end, but then you have the particular problems you mentioned. Between Israel and America GPE, between Bibian NORP guns, and so on.So, again, to me at least, I had a feeling at least, I have to show you this fundamental problem. Now, let's talk a little bit about Gunson and Italian LANGUAGE. I mean, okay, we have this visit while you and me are talking now.I mean, Gunson is supposed to land here back in Israel every second. The visit is over. Look, politics is politics. There are both politicians. They are both Israeli NORP patriots. There are both politicians. They're both Israeli patriots. They have a very problematic history and distrust, one with each other.I don't want to go now to who was wrong. To me, it was positive that Gans PERSON is, I mean, to me, Gans was trying to explain his positions and Israel GPE's position.

Speaker 12908.22s - 2914.68s

And by the way, when it goes to substance, the differences between Bibi and Gans PERSON are very small, regarding the war.

Speaker 02915.24s - 3390.08s

Very small. Both support going to and going to Raffa and complete the war over the war, both support, do not support a Palestinian NORP state now, et cetera, et cetera. They have the same position regarding a deal or pause or a ceasefire as a way you call it. So when you go to substance, I mean, it shows you how is it connected. Because if you go to substance, again against the differences between the both are tiny.But if you go to the social media, so guns is, I mean, to the supportive of the right side, Gantz PERSON is the enemy of the people. And if you go to the left side, Bibi PERSON is the enemy of the people. So it shows you how ridiculous all that is and how it is weakening us from the inside because maybe a negative wave from social mediamight push guns out of the government. And we need a unity government now. You understand? So those neurotic problems are affecting us. So in any case, Gantz PERSON is coming back. As far as I understand, he has no plans to leave the government. He understands that, again, we have to win. And for winning, we need a unity government. And he plans to stay insidethe government, as far as I understand, until it will be clear that the war has ended, hopefully with the victory. And again, I guess it's going to take at least months. And just after that, he will probably leave the government and maybe we'll have elections, maybe not. I don't know. But that's about him and Bibi PERSON. I'm much more worried with the United States' position with Israel GPE. First of all, what Biden PERSON has done is very appreciated here by most people.Now the government is changing the policy. So maybe we'll touch you in a second, but I want to share with you, if we have some time for that, I want to share with you a very small story. You know, I,I, since, as I told you, I'm covering, I mean, I joined a lot of trips with, with Netanya PERSON around the world, and one, actually the last trip before the war was with Netanyielis united nations ORG inin new york and then he had a meeting with uh with president of biden ORG and when biden uh saw him he said a sentence that's still stuck in my mind before the war he said before the war, he said, I'm traveling it to back from Hebrew to English LANGUAGE. He said, if there is no Israel GPE, no Jew NORP around the world is safe.It goes back to the issues we discussed before. Biden says that, not me, not a Jewish NORP leader. Again, the president of the United States GPE, a democratic president of the United States GPE, a democratic president of the United States GPE said, no Jew NORP in the world is safeif there is no the state of Israel GPE. He says that three weeks before the war, maybe even two weeks before the war. And I mean, I was very surprisedto hear it. I had a feeling it's a very significant message by the president, and I wrote a to hear it. I had a feeling it's a very significant message by the president, and I wrote a story about it. To explore, to explain to my readers, why did it say that what is the background and so on?So I'm telling you all that, to tell you that when he made the famous speeches in the beginning of the world, the don't speech, right? Speeches, actually, I was not surprised because I understood that his heart is in our side, in the Jewish NORP side, in the Jewish people's side, in Israel GPE's side.When he saw the atrocities of Hamas did that morning, when it was morning in Israel GPE, he immediately understood what's going on. Maybe before some of us here even they understood. So, because he understands the meaning of the state of Israel GPE. What does it mean to have one and only Jewish state after 2,000 years? He understands it. And therefore, he's supportive to this moment with standing the ammunition, with securing Israel and the United Nations ORG, and people here are appreciated a lot.We do have a problem in the last weeks. I would say in last weeks it becomes even bigger with all the stuff of the humanitarian aid. Now, I don't know if we have the time and I don't know if you want to go into it, but what is shown in the media and in social networks regarding the situation in Gaza GPE is not the reality.Now, I don't know if you know, for example, you know, for years we will talk that the people in Gaza GPE are suffering before the war, that they live in poverty, that they have to get help from the world, et cetera, et cetera. Now, our soldiers are inside. You know what they see? Not everyone, of course. But they see a very fancy neighborhoods in many places, not all.A very, very, I mean, a lot of rich people, a lot of money, a lot of good life. Okay. So the lies were here before the war and they still are. I know the IDF is checking the monetary situation in Gaza every day. I can tell you that plenty of, plenty of supplies getting in. The problems are not because of us.The problems are because that once the trucks are going inside Gaza GPE, there is no, I mean, unless Hamas ORG, there is no one to distribute them inside. Okay? So I guess there is some suffering in Gaza GPE. I am sure no one is starving to death.If, God forbid, that would happen. We would see the pictures. Okay? I didn't see any picture of someone's Hasma Khalil PERSON, God forbid, starving to death. I'm sure it's not happening.And we will not let that happen because we are Jews NORP. So it will not, as long as Israel GPE has been in the situation, no one will die from starvation in Gaza GPE. As long as it depends in our soldiers' hands, okay? So we have a lot, a lot of fake news running all around.And I know, I mean, now, what guns did in America is trying to explain all that to Kamala Harris PERSON and others. And the narrative, the story, I mean, the gaps between what's really going on on the ground and what is being told, and I'm following CNN and Azo Networks ORG, it's like, you know, it's like Shama GPE and what's going on the earth and what is being told on the sky. You can connect those two stories because it's, it's really, it's two different polls.

Speaker 13390.92s - 3401.06s

Yeah, I mean, the only stories that we see here, the only stories that we see here, I mean, like, I, you know, are of intense, intense, intense, intense human suffering in Gaza GPE, right?

Speaker 03401.16s - 3402.94s

Intense, intense, intense, intense human suffering in Gaza GPE.

Speaker 13402.94s - 3429.38s

Now, I don't know, I don't know how to bridge that gap. In other words, for me, it's, you know, from my experience is, this is war. Welcome to reality. It's sad. It's, it's tragic, it's painful, you know, we're paying a terrible, everybody's paying a terrible price, but that's war. It's painful. You know, we're paying a terrible, everybody's paying a terrible price, but that's war. It's not Disney ORG.

Speaker 03429.88s - 3438.06s

You know, we grew up on fairy tales and happily ever after and everything's going to work out. And, you know, this is war.This is what war looks like, you know.

Speaker 13438.76s - 3459.6s

And I, and people are like, and people will, and there is a ton of, you know, the numbers of casualties and children displaced and, you know, millions needing to move etc so i'm like yeah it's it's heartbreakingit's heartbreaking and this is war this is war like it feels terrible it's i feel but you know there is

Speaker 03459.6s - 3472.36s

there is no if the price that we need to if the jewish people the jewish people can't pay that price of allowing october seven and subsequent October 7th in order to limit other people's

Speaker 13472.36s - 3533.7s

suffering. It's not, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a, it's a, doesn't hold, doesn't hold the test of time or, or, or, or, or, or, I, you know, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a hold, it's, it's, I, you know, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I don't know, I don't know how to tell that story. I don't know how to tell people, because, you know, the, the, the, the question of the equation of suffering, right? The people just, it's, it's, it's never ended, right? We have 150,000 people displaced in Israel GPE, but they're in hotels. They have a million and a half people displaced in Aza LOC, not in hotels. Right? I'm like, this is war. It's besides the point, right? You're focusing on the, you're not focusing on the implications, the root causes, and the long-term price that the Middle East LOC will have to pay if we focus just in that narrative.And I don't know how to square that. I don't know how to live with that narrative, with that narrative. And that's what people here are dealing with. Okay.

Speaker 03533.94s - 3538.98s

So first of all, of course, it's suffering. By the way, I was in Gaza GPE once.

Speaker 13539.5s - 3551.34s

And I saw a family. Actually, it was a family without the father. It were a few mothers and few children going with their bags from the north of the strip to the south.

Speaker 03551.9s - 3622.44s

And as you said, you feel, you feel sorry for them. You feel mercy for them. And I wish they wouldn't suffer. And I agree, it's definitely the prices of the war. But what I'm saying is that I am sure no one is starving to death in Gaza GPE. I'm not, I'm sure it's not happening.I'm sure if that would happen, we would see the pictures. And what is a thousand percent sure is that Israel GPE is doing all what it can to avoid such a situation of someone starving to death. That's what I want to say. Now, the question is not at all comparing the suffering. The question is securing the future. Because, you know, let's say that now they are suffering more than us. I mean, I don't know.How can you compare a group rape of women? Okay? Can you compare that with the family that is angry? That's not suffering.

Speaker 13622.94s - 3672.38s

But that's the exact point. The discourse is about that. And what I'm trying to say's the suffering. But that's exactly the point. The discourse is about that. And what I'm trying to say is human suffering is terrible,but the world doesn't operate in that, that's a realm of, that's a line of discourse that isn't helpful and isn't really solution oriented.It doesn't move us towards, it doesn't move us forward because we get stuck in a narrative of who's a bigger victim and who's more in pain. And that to me is not a, that's, that's, it's, it's, it's not a Jewish NORP frame of, of, of, of, of, uh, of, uh, seeing the world. And I'm as a, you know, that's my, my, my, my, my, my lens, which is why I don't like going there, right? But when it's raised, but, but, but, but, but, but, but where they're like, yeah, but look, 30,000 killed in Gaza. You have 200, you know, like, how do we, how do we talk about that?

Speaker 03673.4s - 3705.36s

We, in my opinion, we talk about that because if we want, first of all, if we want, as we said, if we want to secure the future of the Jewish people, and again, to me, of the free world, Israel GPE has to win. But you know what? It's not only for us. It's for them. Why are the people of Gaza GPE suffering? Because of Hamas ORG.And I'm not talking about the sufferings they have now because of the war, because the Tsar is inside. I'm talking about what the sufferings they have now because of the war, because the Tza PERSON is inside.

Speaker 13705.96s - 3715.82s

I'm talking about what happened in Gaza for 15 years since Hamas took over, actually, even from before since Arapa PERSON became empowered.

Speaker 03716.42s - 3779.74s

Sorry. Okay? They were living, I mean, we support democracies. They were living under a brutal extreme Islam regime in Gaza GPE. If you care about democracy values, you should be the first to support Israel to eliminate Hamas ORG.Otherwise, it means that you support extreme East Muslim NORP dictatorships. What was Hamas ORG? Does they have election? I mean, they once won, that's what happens. They once won the elections and since then, they control by power.So if you want to secure and you want to give, you want to give future to, again, not only to Israel, but to the people of Gaza GPE, you have to help Israel to eliminate this brutal dictator, extreme dictatorship, a regime in Gaza.

Speaker 13780.32s - 3785.02s

So I think this is a great, I actually think this is incredibly helpful and illuminating.

Speaker 03785.14s - 3790.92s

And I'm saying this because like as, because these are the voices in which this is the world in which we operate in which we live, right?

Speaker 13790.98s - 3836.16s

But like, I am almost, no, I can say this. There's no qualification here. I am not interested in engaging with people who are pro-Kamas ORG, right? That is not interesting to me. They're genocidal extremists. You know, extremists.There's no qualifying aspect of that around Hamas ORG. But there are members of our community who are saying, okay, I agree. And to what extent? We keep on saying Israel GPE needs to win, Israel needs to win. What does that look like?And I mean, again, I don't have answers. It's not like I'm presenting a specific like this. I don't have it. I certainly don't have an answer, right? But I'm curious maybe like, what does Israel GPE winning look like? And what does Israel winning look like right now?

Speaker 03836.84s - 4073.92s

To make it, okay, I'll tell you my answer. And to make it as short as possible, just as the Allies won Germany in 1945. What should happen in Gaza is what happened under the American regime in Germany GPE since 1945, and until Germany, I think it was 52 or 50, 9050, they got some kind of independence just after the denazification of Germany GPE.The Nazi NORP regime was completely, completely destroyed, and not only the military power, but all aspects of flight. To me, that is a full victory. I don't know if we can achieve it, but at least we have to try to do all what we can, to come close as we canto such kind of of of victory and not only again not only for the sake of us for the sake of of the free world and the sake for our communities because you have to remember amitai we live here in the Middle East the fight Israel GPE has its own fights live here in the Middle East. The fight, Israel has its own fights. But here in the Middle East LOC, you have conflict between the extreme regimes, which are all supported by Iran GPE.Okay? It's extreme terrorists. Actually, it's not only terror organizations. It's terrorist states in Lebanon, in Gaza, in Yemen GPE. If those evil power will win, if one of them will win, what would it tell to the Muslim brothers in Jordan GPE, to the Muslim brothers in Egypt, in Algeria, in Morocco, all over the middle, in Afghanistan GPE,in Pakistan GPE? You know, I'll tell another story because I had this opportunity to visit so many countries. So I was in the last summer. I was visiting Uzbekistan GPE, a very nice country, trying to develop, trying to shift from a very strong dictatorship to a more open regime. Now, it's a Muslim NORP country, I believe 90, 95% of Muslim. Now, the Muslim regime in Uzbekistan GPE understandsthat if they want the country to succeed, so they can let some kind of religious practices, Muslim NORP religious practices, but they cannot let any extreme power to rise in Uzbekistan GPE. And they fight them strongly in Uzbekistan GPE. Now again, let's say Hamas ORG wins. Let's say Iran GPE wins.What would be the message in Uzbekistan GPE? Okay? What would be the message in Indonesia GPE? So again, for the sake of the free world, Israel GPE must win. Again, for us, I'm not hiding that. First of all, for the survival and and the success of the Jewish NORP people.But it's not only our war, not at all. Not at all. And I will tell you, I want to tell you even more, at least in my tiny eyes. The rallies, the hate rallies, you see all over Europe and America GPE are just the first time before, I don't know what going to happen. I can't give you a scenario. But what we see here is an explosion of evil forces, which are, fortunately, are now all around our free world.And I hope I saw that Richie Sunnack in the UK GPE was beginning to take a few steps.

Speaker 14074.34s - 4076.58s

A few steps again, what's going on there.

Speaker 04077.62s - 4290.76s

It's just the beginning, and it's not enough. There is an internal risk to the free world from inside. And don't get me wrong, it's not against the Muslims NORP. Don't get me wrong. It's against the extreme Islam NORP, against the terrorist, okay? It's not against Muslim NORP.I want to emphasize that. But we have to understand the risk is, the danger is from inside. And for the sake of the free world because you know and and I want to you know I told you I'm 50 years old and and I was raised up in in a sense that that freedom is is obvious that the state is obvious that the good will win because that's what happened in 1945 so so you know what it's not obvious it's not obvious it's not obvious you know you that the good will win because that's what happened in 1945. So you know what?It's not obvious. It's not obvious. The bad guys might win. Okay? We have to open our eyes and not live in illusions. The bad guys can win.And I'm telling you even more, do you know why did we, I mean, the free world, why did the free world won in the Second World War EVENT? It's not because of America and the UK GPE. It's because of the Russians, of Stalin PERSON. If Stalin wouldn't help the Western NORP allies, probably Hitler would take the entire Europe LOC,including the UK, for decades. Who knows? Okay? So the evils might win. We have to be very, very, very aware to that. So, so, so going back to your questions about what we tell to people.I mean, I don't know, you know, you and I are talking to you. I don't know. It's very hard. I mean, we are very small people. And how can we convince millions of millions who disagree with us? It's a fair question.I don't know. But at least between you and me, let's understand what do we face and hope that people will open their eyes because the risks here are huge. And by the way, we had a miracle on October 7. I don't know if you know that. We had a miracle. And the miracle was that Chisbalah and the Palestinians in the West Bank and in Israel and Iran GPE,all of them didn't join the war. Sinwar plan was that once he is beginning, everyone will join him. And I don't want to imagine where were we now if that happened. And it's a miracle that happened in that holiday.Okay? And right away, now we are before the Ramadan. What he's trying to do now in the coming weeks of the Ramadan is trying to get now what he didn't have then.He wants an explosion during the Ramadan. He wants no deal. That's the reason he's not cooperating with the talks in Cairo GPE. Because he wants an explosion in Temple Mount,in Laxa,za during the Ramadan. He wants that Chisbalah PERSON that didn't join him then, we'll do it now. So we have to be aware to the risks. We have to know that our victory is not guaranteed. It's not guaranteed. So if that would convince one or two people who are listening or seeing us,that's enough for me.

Speaker 14290.96s - 4306.22s

But I know the battle is very hard. I know that. Yeah. And I think that to your point of like, just it's enough to see what, you know, the Abraham Accords and the Saudis and the UAE GPE who totally de-radicalized its educational system and is doing a phenomenal job in becoming a beacon.

Speaker 04306.22s - 4308.5s

Saudis are in the middle of the way, I would say.

Speaker 14308.74s - 4336.98s

But the Emirates NORP are a fantastic example. I was there and Saudi and Mara'anais NORP. Correct. And and I, but the Saudis are in the middle, but the fact, they could have easily like disengaged and like said we're done. But they're not. Correct.They're not. And I think that and to me, that's a positive sign that they're more than halfway because it's easier to disengage than to hold on. And so, you know, I think that there are people who understand that. I mean, we are coming up at the end of our time and I want to be mindful of it. And I can have these conversations forever.

Speaker 04336.98s - 4339.06s

And I didn't answer, I think, two questions you had.

Speaker 14339.18s - 4346.14s

Well, you didn't answer the old Orthodox NORP. We'll do a follow. It's fine. By the way, there is no solution to that problem. Yeah, I mean. With the Khareed NORP him. Yeah. Not, not, certainly not in a follow, but it's fine. By the way, there is no solution to that problem. Yeah, I mean.

Speaker 04346.16s - 4346.72s

With the Haradim PERSON.

Speaker 14347.06s - 4347.26s

Yeah.

Speaker 04347.42s - 4407.36s

Not, not, not, certainly not in the way that it's being proposed. It's not going to be, it's not going to be a mandated element. It has to be self-voluntary and self-selecting. And I don't know how that happens without a whole theological conversation about the role of Israel and Jewish NORP history for me. But that's, that's another podcast, another, another whole hour and I do want to end, you know, I think that this is an incredible, you know, it's an incredibly important point that you're making,that victory isn't guaranteed. And we can't lose sight of, it's, you know, it feels like a localized conflict, but it's not one of, you know, another Gaza GPE war. You know, I was in 09 and cast led in Gaza GPE. It's not another one of those. This is a much bigger thing with much broader implicationsand to keep people aware of the different elements that come into play in this because it's not just, you know, Israelis and Palestinians NORP, bickering or fighting over again. It's not at all part of that. It's a much bigger thing. And, you know, trying and Palestinians NORP, you know, bickering or fighting over again, it's not at all. Part of that is a much bigger thing.

Speaker 14407.36s - 4446.08s

And, you know, trying to figure out how do we work towards a, you know, a reality or a world where that is no longer the case. This is a big, big, big question I think that we're facing. And in terms of, you know, this is, this doesn't, you know, you said that it, you're concerned that this might evolve to something much bigger in the region and how do we stay away from that. And I think those are big questions to leave us with in this podcast. But thank you, Ariel PERSON, for joining us.I know there are a lot of questions on the table, but still, I'm appreciative of your time. And I look forward to continuing our conversation. So, Darabah PERSON, thank you for helping me. I'm appreciative of your time. And I look forward to continuing our conversation. So do that.

Speaker 04446.08s - 4467.04s

Thank you for helping me. And again, we are tiny people with a lot of history. And we have to work very strong. To have a very good, bright future. We can do it. What we have, we have to make big of course that to happen.Yes, we do. We do. Thank you. thank you very much to do blah blah