Anyone want to buy TikTok?

Speaker 20s - 55.5s

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Speaker 155.82s - 92.5s

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Speaker 392.66s - 102.28s

we're going to burn your house down unless you sell it. That's the metaphor I bring using my TikTok ORG. If you don't listen to the Vergecast, we will burn your house down.

Speaker 6102.46s - 103.8s

Yeah, those are your choices.

Speaker 3103.92s - 119.5s

You can sell your house or Krans PERSON will come to it and torch it. Yeah, I've got a lighter and everything. Hi, I'm your friend, Eli PERSON. I'm good. Kranz PERSON is here. Alex Kranz PERSON is here.Yeah, I'm here to hear all the scorching takes. Yeah, she's got a lighter and she's not afraid to use it. David Pierce PERSON is here.

Speaker 6120.02s - 125.34s

Hello. We were all so close to being in the same city for like 10 minutes yesterday.

Speaker 3125.74s - 212.32s

And we managed to not record a Vergecast. And it was very upsetting. Yeah, it's funny that we've gone 180. Usually at least two of us are together. We were all very close to all three of us being together. And now we're all three of us remote.But it's for good reason. David has the Rabbit R1 PRODUCT in hand. I can't tell you how much I want to talk about the rabbit R1 and all the things it can or mostly cannot do. So that's very exciting. We're going to talk about that.We've got to talk to the electric g-wagon. That's another hour of the Vergecast. Apple announced new iPads PRODUCT. Tesla ORG had earnings. Elon threatened once again to turn every Tesla ORG on the road into some sort of distributed AWS situation.Very weird. We got a lightning around at the end. But we have to start. We have to start with breaking news. Joe Biden, just before we began recording today on Wednesday, signed the bill that would force TikTok to either divest itself, to sell itself to some other company in the United States GPE or shut down. Those are the two choices.It passed as part of an aid package to Ukraine, Israel GPE. There's some humanitarian aid for Gaza GPE in that package. The House passed it as part of an aid package to Ukraine, Israel, there's some humanitarian aid for Gaza in that package. The House ORG passed it as part of that aid bill. They extended the timeline on the divestiture, which was the big holdup in the Senate ORG before. So now TikTok has nine months to figure out a sale process. And if they're making progress, whoever is the president can add three months per the president's discretion, bringing the total to a year.So by the time it's basically has a year to figure this out. The clock is now ticking. The bill is signed. It's the law. No one knows what's going to happen next.

Speaker 6213.4s - 218.1s

Yeah, I like, there's so many strange unknowns about this.

Speaker 3218.18s - 221.94s

Things like who is going to be president when we hit the nine month gap?

Speaker 6221.94s - 238.48s

Like it's so obvious to me that a big part of the sticking point was to move this past the election, right? That whatever is going to happen should have to happen after election day. And it'll either be our problem after we've been reelected if you're the Democrats NORP or it'll be their problem. Yeah.If you're the Republicans NORP, right?

Speaker 7238.48s - 244.66s

That was a Lauren PERSON's reporting, too, is that a lot of these senators signed on to approve

Speaker 6244.66s - 246.56s

this bill because it pushed

Speaker 7246.56s - 250.76s

it past the deadline, because they gave them a little bit more space to do it. Yeah.

Speaker 6250.86s - 290.58s

No, I think it's such an easy maneuver at such an odd moment. And we've talked so much about the politics of this, especially among young people in the United States and all the weird ways that's going to go. And all of the stuff I've been reading recently has been very strange that like intellectually, overwhelmingly, it seems like if you ask people, is TikTok ORG sort of bad in whatever like mysterious way you want to define bad?People say yes. Like all of the polls are basically like, yes, most people believe TikTok ORG is a net bad. But then I think the reality of like waking up and TikTok suddenly being gone is a is a thing in an election season that nobody actually wants to deal with.

Speaker 4290.7s - 290.86s

Yeah.

Speaker 6291.18s - 296.16s

It's very strange. I also don't think that part is ever actually going to happen, but we can talk about that.

Speaker 3296.42s - 311.42s

Look, I love eating handfuls of Eminemes at midnight. Just the thing I love. I know it's bad. I know I shouldn't do that. Super do it all the time. That feels like our relationship to social media is a country right now.Maybe TikTok ORG in particular.

Speaker 4311.98s - 321.06s

But in general, our relationship to social media is like, eh, it's making us feel bad and maybe it's measurable or maybe it's not, or maybe this guy is just a grifter trying to sell a book. Whatever it is.

Speaker 3321.62s - 356.76s

Some ambient sense of, I shouldn't eat M&Ms at midnight, is there? And then everyone just like, give them to me. Yeah. Like, let me have them. The thing that's really interesting, right? It just got signed today.It felt inevitable all week that this would get signed. That was, the momentum was there. Lauren Feiner PERSON, her reporting suggested the deadlines were coming ever faster. Like, usually with bills. There's delays in last minute. And this was just happening. And it actually happened. I think a little faster than we anticipated would happen, like coming ever faster. Like, usually with bills. There's delays in last minute, and this was just happening.And it actually happened. I think a little faster than we anticipated would happen, like a day faster. Now it's done. There's no more argumentwhether you should ban TikTok ORG. Like, they did it. They passed the bill. Joe Biden PERSON signed it.

Speaker 6356.8s - 357.38s

It's the law.

Speaker 3357.38s - 360.7s

I mean, I do think you could ask

Speaker 6360.7s - 367.2s

the question of, is what Joe Biden signed intended to be a ban of TikTok ORG? Like,

Speaker 0367.2s - 403.56s

it's not nothing to me that in his statement about signing the bill and his excitement and enthusiasm for the fact that this got done after all this time, didn't mention TikTok ORG once or any of this stuff once. It's buried like halfway down this long bill after, I forget the exact heading of the thing, but it's like miscellaneous and then TikTok. Like this is not the point of the bill, right?Which I think is a strange thing that is going to play out potentially in some interesting ways as we go through the inevitable chaos of the next nine months. This got passed in service of passing something else.

Speaker 6403.64s - 431.26s

And I think what everybody decided along this process is passing this other thing is so important that, sure, we'll ban TikTok ORG. And so I think, I don't know if that changes anything about the way this actually plays out. I think the bill is still law. Like, it did happen. But it's a strange way that we got here that makes me wonder, like, does Joe Biden PERSON actuallywant to ban TikTok ORG? Or is that just a price everyone is willing to pay in order to get this important aid bill?

Speaker 7431.42s - 459.56s

Oh, it's 100% of price everybody was willing to pay, right? Like, like, this was a really, the whole bill was hard, was a hard fought battle for everybody involved. And this was just like, you know what, we just need to get this bill out the door. If somebody wants to put this end, this is like, so at the back of most of our list, it's fine. Which I thought was really, really interesting to go from, like, TikTok ORG being like this huge center of discussion for everybody to being like essentially a footnote and a much larger bill.

Speaker 3460.28s - 460.46s

Yeah.

Speaker 7460.54s - 465.02s

I mean, they did have, the House did have the up-down vote on the standalone TikTok ORG bill, which had a much shorter timeline.

Speaker 3465.22s - 487.12s

And I think a lot of people had problems with that shorter timeline. And that just sort of arrived in the Senate ORG with nothing. So at least one part of our government had the straight up-down vote. That's true, right? And after the House voted to pass that version of the bill, Biden PERSON said, I'm going to sign it. I'll sign it.You get it to me and I'll sign it. Whether or not they skirted it through the Senate ORG by attaching it to a bill that everyone wanted to get done.

Speaker 0487.74s - 491.7s

Yeah, I mean, like on the margins, but that's like how so many things get done. Totally.

Speaker 6492.04s - 496.52s

But I think you have, you had the House just the straight up time vote and you had Biden PERSON saying, I'm going to sign it.

Speaker 3496.6s - 527.16s

So the motivations, I think, are clear whether or not Biden PERSON wants to run around crowing that he banned TikTok, I think is very different, like politically very different. The White House, for example, announced today that's going to keep campaigning on TikTok ORG. Whether or not Biden wants to run around crowing that he banned TikTok, I think is very different, like politically very different. The White House, for example, announced today that's going to keep campaigning on TikTok ORG. They're just going to, they're going to be, like, I don't know if anyone's ready for that ratio. That is going to, in the history of ratios on the Internet, every post the White House ORG now makes, every post Joe Biden now makes on TikTok ORG is going to get ratioed to hell and back,and it's going gonna be delightful. And that's fine.

Speaker 6527.28s - 529.84s

I was actually thinking about that as sort of,

Speaker 3529.96s - 532.36s

it's like a perfect microcosm of this whole thing.

Speaker 6532.46s - 565.12s

And I think the thing that I have come around to is in the months that we've been talking about this, I think at the beginning of all these conversations, I underrated how important TikTok ORG is as an information source, particularly to young people. But now you see the stats that are like, it is a growing search engine. It's a, it's ahuge source of news, particularly for like Gen Z and younger. It matters a lot. And so for the White House to A, want to ban TikTok ORG, but also understand that if we want to reach people, this is the literal only way is actually like a perfect

Speaker 4565.12s - 571.84s

summation of the TikTok ORG problem. TikTok is so important that you can ban it and yet you have to use

Speaker 0571.84s - 577.66s

it. It's so strange. But that is like that is where we are with what TikTok ORG means to people, right?

Speaker 6577.88s - 581.82s

Somewhere in the TikTok ORG office, there's the knob that just throttles you and like shows you,

Speaker 3581.82s - 585.6s

the CEO of TikTok is just like Biden Harris ORG HQ. Goodbye.

Speaker 6585.84s - 586.94s

Yeah, their engagement is going to go way.

Speaker 3586.94s - 627.98s

Newt PERSON from orbit. Good night, everybody. So it's done, right? The point I'm trying to make is it's done. There are only three options now. TikTok ORG has said it's going to sue.It's going to file some sort of legal complaint to say this is not allowed. We don't know what that looks like. They showed G2 actually put up a TikTok ORG himself saying, make no mistake, this is a ban, which is interesting. We'll come back to that. And then we're going to go to court and want to fight for your rights as Americansunder the Constitution because you can't be silenced. Also a very interesting thing to say. And then he said, don't worry, TikTok ORG will continue as before. Like we'll keep running TikTok ORG, we're going to keep investing in TikTok. Yeah, you just hold tight. I'm going to go defend the Constitution against the United States GPE government.

Speaker 7628.18s - 636.24s

Yeah, it's, it's super funny to see the guy who made like unalive a word because you're not allowed to say dead on TikTok ORG.

Speaker 0636.62s - 641.44s

The bastion of free speech. Like, that's a really weird stance for him to take because it's not.

Speaker 3641.56s - 646.66s

It's it's PG-rated social media, right? Like, it's social media

Speaker 7646.66s - 653.06s

for kids, which is why the kids use it and why part of the reason people don't want the kids using it.

Speaker 3653.18s - 656.38s

Like, come on. I'm never going to look at a corner emoji the same way, right, after being

Speaker 7656.38s - 662.3s

on text after all. You went from very, very innocent to very weird, very quickly. So there's that element.

Speaker 3662.38s - 705.88s

There's also the fact that it's not the user speech that is being regulated here, right? It's TikTok ORG, the company that distributes the speech of users. And the notion that its control of the algorithm presents some sort of national security risk, that there is some longstanding issue with having foreign powers control a significant part of our media. That's a very old policy issue. There's some issue with concentration of media ownership.So you just look at option one. We're going to file a lawsuit. We're going to win pure coin flip. We just don't know how that's going to go. We don't know what TikTok ORG's lawsuit is going to be. It could hinge all on free speech or it could just hinge on like a technical drafting errorwhere the government did not point to the correct statutory authority from 1805 to enact.

Speaker 0705.96s - 707.58s

We don't know. Like, we have to see it.

Speaker 3708.04s - 745.38s

So that's option one. We're going to fight a lawsuit and went. Option two is they shut down and leave. They could do that. That's the ban, right? We've exhausted our other options and we're out of here.Goodbye. You ban TikTok ORG. Weird. I think that, I think that is a choice Bightance ORG has to make under duress. Yeah. Right?That's the, we're going to burn your house down unless you sell it. And they could be like, we let the match. See you later. We shut it down.Option two. Option three is that they sell it. You know, they got a year to figure it out. And option three has a bunch of weirdness in it because most of the companies that would want to buy TikTok ORG,it feels like our own DOJ would prevent them from doing it for antitrust reasons.

Speaker 0746.94s - 747.84s

So that's option three.

Speaker 3747.96s - 791.94s

So it's not an easy road from here at all. I don't know what the creators are going to do. The creators have a year to figure out how much they want to trust TikTok ORG while TikTok ORG is trying to turn itself into the home shopping network anyway. And like it's not. And, you know, universal music isn't on there anymore.Like there's a whole bunch of stuff over there that creators are going to have to react to i think we're in for just a whole bucket of changes much in the same way that when you know Elon bought Twitter ORG and started making changes over there the social media landscape just started refracting around it like things started changing all around that energy um i think we're going to see the same thing with ticot but there's only three options they fight fight and win a lawsuit, which we haven't seen, and we don't know what that lawsuit will be based on.So we don't know. They leave or they sell it. That's it.

Speaker 6792.04s - 805.18s

Okay, I just want to float a fourth option, which is they stay and the app stores pay a fine, which in case you're wondering, I calculated, it would be $850 billion. So that's an option. Just throwing it out there.

Speaker 3805.24s - 808.36s

Apple ORG can do that. That's 8.5 car projects for Apple ORG.

Speaker 6808.44s - 809.72s

Yeah, it's like not even a big deal.

Speaker 3809.92s - 812.96s

It's fine. But I think to me,

Speaker 6813.44s - 875.28s

the strange thing that's going to happen in the middle of all of that is just uncertainty, right? And I've been reading and talking to folks about this just in the last few hours. And there is this overwhelming sensefrom a lot of people that TikTok ORG is sort of screwed no matter what happens. Because this is like, it just got completely thrown up in the air. Everything about TikTok ORG. And there is no indication it's going to settle down quickly. Right. And like, even if it gets a new owner, there will be lots of changes. If it disappears, obviously, it'll be gone. And if it fights a lawsuit, that's going to take a long time. And so if you're a creator, if you're an advertiser, if you're anyone who has any kind of investment in this platform, the simplest thing to do is going to be immediately start investing your time and energy and money somewhere else. And that is just going to bleed TikTok ORG so fast. And to the point where even if a year from now, TikTok sells to Oracle ORG, like, what,are we sure TikTok is going to still be TikTok in a year?

Speaker 3877.48s - 877.78s

Because it's, I think this stuff moves fast.

Speaker 6878.1s - 878.18s

Right.

Speaker 3884.1s - 886.54s

And then the actual mechanism of sale is confusing because it appears BightDance ORG would not sell the algorithm that underlies TikTok ORG, right? Right.

Speaker 6886.7s - 895.36s

Well, BightDance ORG has been pretty clear this whole time that it has no interest in selling. Like, if you believe BightDance ORG, divesting is not an option.

Speaker 7895.82s - 899.24s

Yeah, because then we have to see if TikTok ORG actually makes money. Right.

Speaker 3899.28s - 927.9s

I mean, like, yeah, do they want a bunch of American NORP tech companies poking around the books of TikTok ORG? Like, they certainly do not. Do they have to say, just as a negotiating tactic, we will never sell in order to ward off a ban? They sure do. But if you're just a responsible executive and now you're here and you have the three choices, or a choice for, to be fair to David, which is ask Apple ORG to pay$850 billion a year in funds for having TikTok ORG remain in the app store. Yeah, I don't know. Like, it feels like you got to run down two of them, right?

Speaker 6928.38s - 932.58s

Yeah, I mean, at some point, your option is either $0 or $100 billion. Yeah.

Speaker 3933.08s - 965.64s

And you just, you sort of have no choice but to take that. But if that is the game that you're playing, you have to play that basically until the very last minute. Look, the millionaire Chinese teens buying G-waggans all over Los Angeles, it's got to come from somewhere, you know? Exactly.Like, the children of the CCP ORG, they need their G-wagons. That's all I'm saying. I'm just putting that out there somewhere. And like, money talks. I'm like, that's real. And I think having some dollars is better than no dollars.Whether or not it's fair that the price is depressed because the thing has to be sold. Good question. There's just not a world fair that the price is depressed because the thing has to be sold. Good question.

Speaker 4966.64s - 971.96s

There's just not a world in which the evaluation doesn't come down to. Are we going to be successful

Speaker 3971.96s - 985.12s

in court? What number can we get? Because that middle road of we pulled out of the United States GPE market and now we have nothing to show for all of our investment in building the TikTok ORG user base, that's a lawsuit too.

Speaker 6985.34s - 991.68s

It's also just straight up bad business. Like, that is just straightforwardly like a stupid capitalism decision at some point.

Speaker 3991.94s - 993.58s

Notably, the Chinese NORP government are not so capitalist.

Speaker 6994.5s - 1023.88s

Putting that out there. Well, and again, like, there are, the question of who ultimately makes this decision on that side,very hard to know would tell you a lot about how this will turn out, right? Like if Shuchu, the CEO of TikTok ORG is the person who ultimately makes the decision, that will be very different than if TikTok is connected to bite dance is connected to the Chinese Communist Party ORG, which ultimately means the Chinese Communist Party ORG makes that decision. That would go very differently. Like, there's so many things we don't know still.

Speaker 71024.28s - 1030.06s

It's an exciting time, honestly. Like, I love when a social media platform changes hands or has this

Speaker 61030.06s - 1035.1s

big moment. Because then you see things like Adam Aseri today. Was it on Instagram, Neela PERSON? I think

Speaker 71035.1s - 1043.72s

you clocked the video of him just explaining to creators how to get engagement on the platform. And it's like, that probably wouldn't have happened if there wasn't a TikTok ORG.

Speaker 31045.04s - 1054.82s

Adam and Sarah PERSON being like, so, okay, you're at work. I'm going to set some goals for you. We're going. We're going to check it in six months. It's going to see how it's going. And it's like, dude, why does this all feel like work?Yeah.

Speaker 41054.86s - 1056.68s

I actually think that's like the bigger story here.

Speaker 31056.76s - 1068.32s

This feels like a work for an awful lot of people across all of these platforms. Yeah. And like maybe some people are going to be like, I don't want to work for TikTok ORG anymore because it came to nothing.And that will just create energy somewhere else. We'll see.

Speaker 61068.44s - 1080.94s

One of the funniest memes to me on Instagram is all the people who are like, oh, I had a call with meta. And we talked about, you know, strategies for how to succeed. And it, like, it has become a meme of people making jokes about it. But it started as a real thing.

Speaker 71081.02s - 1090.34s

And it's like, it's a big win to have a business call with meta executives about your Instagram presence. Wait, wait, did social media become the new Mary Kay PERSON? Yeah,

Speaker 31090.4s - 1094.32s

oh, it's, it's been there for a long time. I don't think I realized the people selling the hydro water

Speaker 71094.32s - 1099.76s

bottles. Yes. The bottles have a blue LED in the bottom and they're like, this adds hydrogen to

Speaker 31099.76s - 1107.52s

your water. That's a lie. It's very bad. If you don't understand why it's bad, I'm just telling that water is made of hydrogen. Yeah, it's already in there. It's H2. It's very bad. And if you don't understand why it's bad, I'm just telling you that water is made of hydrogen.

Speaker 71108.12s - 1108.82s

Yeah, it's already in there.

Speaker 31108.94s - 1112.16s

There's two of them for every oxygen, famously.

Speaker 61113.18s - 1114.5s

You get two of them.

Speaker 71116.14s - 1117.46s

Double your hydrogens.

Speaker 61118.08s - 1119.6s

And it's like, what are you doing?

Speaker 31119.66s - 1150.72s

Like, how is this happening on this platform? And they're all selling them a TikTok ORG shop. And I just think that platform, the revenue pressure on all the social platforms is so high. All these companies need to make money and show property or do in layoffs and they're just turning the screws. I'm like, can we, how do we make money? And they just landed on the home shopping network. I think it was headed towards a cliff anyway. Like there was a bubble in video creator economy.Taylor Lawrence PERSON has actually talked about it. And you can just see, like, to me, the hydro water bottle is like, oh, that bubble's getting pretty big. Yeah.

Speaker 41150.78s - 1151.72s

Like, it's not good.

Speaker 31152s - 1169.48s

All right, so here's the exercise I want to do. Three options, right? Lawsuit succeeds, Bightance ORG, burns it down, or they get sold. TikTok ORG is a prize, right? It is the thing that no one can get. It is a scaled social network with an active user base of young people.That's what everybody wants.

Speaker 01169.92s - 1172.08s

It's really hard to get the way that TikTok ORG got it, right?

Speaker 31172.12s - 1193.1s

They acquired musically, and then BightDance ORG started spending billions upon billions of dollars on Facebook and Instagram ORG ads to convert people into downloading the app. You can't really do that. You can't even run that playbook anymore because of Apple ORG's app tracking transparency. Like they made the ad changes. And so the market for app install ads is basically gone. You have to pay Apple for them in the App Store ORG app. A different conversation,

Speaker 01193.48s - 1197.74s

but the point is you can't just run the playbook Bightance ORG did. And they ran that playbook to

Speaker 41197.74s - 1202.34s

the tune of billions upon billions of dollars. Right. So here's this thing that was really

Speaker 01202.34s - 1205.02s

hard to do that the conditions under which

Speaker 31205.02s - 1217.94s

Bight Dance ORG did it have dramatically changed. And it was very expensive even when they could do it. It's what everybody wants. It will be expensive, right? This isn't, this isn't like Twitter ORG fire sale. And even that was expensive, as we've all discovered.

Speaker 01218.04s - 1224.98s

Like that was overpriced. This is the thing. Like, it is a scaled video advertising platform with a bunch of young people on it that love

Speaker 31224.98s - 1249.46s

it that love it that defines the culture all the time. So who can afford it? I just looked up the list of the largest American companies by Market Cap. All of the ones that are measured in trillions are tech companies. So I figure we could just go down that list. And then we can go to the companies that are measured in billions, which are much more amusing to think about as owners of Bite Dance. But I think we should start with the tech companiesbecause they seem like the most likely group to at least have some interest.

Speaker 61249.92s - 1263.4s

Clarifying question. How much should we think TikTok ORG is worth? I have an idea in mind, but I'm curious if there is a like assumed number that I have not heard for what TikTok ORG is valued at. Do we know?

Speaker 31263.4s - 1267.18s

So the number that I have just picked out of the blue is $100 billion

Speaker 61267.18s - 1270.76s

because that is more than double what Twitter ORG was worth. Okay.

Speaker 31270.76s - 1272.1s

And it's a huge number.

Speaker 61272.28s - 1282.38s

It's a huge number. Most companies can't just do that, right? I would have actually gone a little higher. Like there was the estimate recently that YouTube is worth $400 billion on its own. So I was going to say like 200, let's go.

Speaker 31282.38s - 1285.16s

Once you're up here, it's just like whatever number you want. Another 100 bill? I'm good with 100 bill. Oh, no. I'm you're up here, it's just like whatever number you want. Another 100 bill?

Speaker 71285.46s - 1286.46s

I'm good with 100 bill.

Speaker 61286.7s - 1287.14s

Oh, no, no.

Speaker 71287.26s - 1290.26s

TikTok doesn't have like the numbers of YouTube ORG though, right?

Speaker 61290.38s - 1292.78s

Like I'm at 50 billion or the money or the, yeah.

Speaker 71292.94s - 1294.46s

No, you're right. I'm good with 100 billion.

Speaker 31294.68s - 1295.16s

This works.

Speaker 71295.36s - 1299.44s

By the way, I'm picking that number just because it is this, it's a small hard number.

Speaker 31300.22s - 1300.66s

Yeah. Right?

Speaker 61300.76s - 1315.34s

Like 44 billion for Twitter ORG was like overpriced. But even then, a lot of companies can just like do it. I don't think there's any world in which TikTok is in a regular pure market sense worth less than 100 billion. So I feel pretty good about this.

Speaker 31315.44s - 1330.4s

And I'll just, for some comparison, as of December 2020, 3, Apple had $73 billion in cash on hand, which is an insane amount of cash. Like Apple ORG is one of those cash-rich companies out there, and that's how much. So I picked a hundred because it will be hard even for an Apple ORG to pull. Yeah.

Speaker 41330.66s - 1332.14s

Anyway, here's the list.

Speaker 31333.14s - 1356.32s

Apple and Microsoft ORG jockeying back and forth for biggest market cap. So we'll start with Microsoft today. Microsoft ORG. It actually feels like Microsoft should be in the running for TikTok ORG. They had been in the running before. When Trump tried to ban TikTok, Sachendella ORG got pulled into those conversations.He has repeatedly described it as some of the weirdest business dealings he's ever been a part of.

Speaker 01356.56s - 1357.44s

Then it just went away.

Speaker 31358.12s - 1365.62s

And we got Project Texas where Oracle ORG took over the data, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Which came to nothing appears to have been mostly a front.

Speaker 61366.24s - 1367.78s

Convinced no one of anything.

Speaker 31367.78s - 1369.74s

No one cares about project access.

Speaker 61369.86s - 1379.4s

And Microsoft ORG has been desperate for, like, a true consumer play for a long time. I mean, it, it, wasn't it Microsoft that sniffed around Discord PRODUCT in a pretty big way?

Speaker 71379.76s - 1392.2s

Like, it wants something like this very badly. I disagree. This is, this is like a big old hot potato Microsoft ORG wants no part of. Like the big power of Microsoft ORG nowadays is that we don't talk about Microsoft that often.

Speaker 31393.02s - 1396.3s

And that would change immediately with TikTok ORG.

Speaker 71396.3s - 1401.18s

A good question for all this is, does your CEO want to get hauled in front of Congress ORG to talk about content moderation?

Speaker 31402.08s - 1402.22s

Right?

Speaker 71402.52s - 1405.1s

And Microsoft ORG, no, the answer appears to be no.

Speaker 31405.3s - 1411.38s

That said, there is a lot of scrutiny around Microsoft's deal with OpenAI ORG, like a lot

Speaker 41411.38s - 1412.04s

of antitrust scrutiny.

Speaker 31412.14s - 1448.64s

And this is going to come up. The idea of antitrust scrutiny is going to come up as we go through this list. And there's, I think Microsoft ORG could run a play where they say, look, here's what we're going to do. We're going to do a partnership with like Snap ORG, which can deflude. Snap is not on the list of biggest American NORP companies by any, by any means.Like, not even in top 100. Like, no, it's not even sniffing this. But you can say Microsoft ORG, but you can see Microsoft say, okay, we're going to do this weird kind of partnership with Snap where they will fund them buying TikTok ORG, will be their backend provider, they'll run AI and Azure PRODUCT for recommendations. And it'll be the same kind of structure as Open AI PRODUCT.And if that's fine over here, because it solves your big problem, I bet it's fine over here with Open AI PRODUCT.

Speaker 71449.26s - 1453.76s

Lena Khan will drop kick that deal right out the door.

Speaker 31454.34s - 1469.46s

I mean, but this is the game, right? All these companies are, it's an operative. This is a problem that needs to get solved. Someone has to buy this thing. And if Lena Khan is like, I'm not going to let anyone buy it, then it is a ban. And so you have to at least run the process and you have to create some leverage somewhere.

Speaker 61469.56s - 1473.12s

I think Microsoft has like three meetings, but ultimately walks away.

Speaker 31473.84s - 1502.02s

Again, they came close before. Also, Microsoft doesn't have a dead on antitrust problem because it doesn't run any social networks that's from Xbox Live PRODUCT. And so, you know, they could just buy it. I don't know if they'd want to, but I think using it as leverage to turn down the heat on opening eye, might be interesting. That's Microsoft ORG. Apple, one or two, the biggest company in the world, Microsoft Apple ORG, always going back and forth.Apple ORG. No way is my answer to this question. Zero percent, then Tim Cook wants to sit in front of Congress ORG and talk about content moderation ever.

Speaker 61502.44s - 1516.82s

The funniest possible outcome of this whole thing is that Apple buys TikTok ORG and makes it a feature of Apple TV Plus PRODUCT. That is the single best thing that could possibly happen. That this is their content play for Apple TV Plus PRODUCT.

Speaker 71517s - 1520.28s

Oh, it would be Apple Music ORG. Yeah, Apple Music ORG, right.

Speaker 31520.34s - 1546.16s

Apple ORG runs a music service. TikTok ORG is huge in music. They have great relationships with all the labels because they're the big hedge against Spotify. Apple, importantly, has an incredible relationship with the Chinese government that is extremely well managed by Tim Cook. So they're a known partner that would find a way to blah, blah, blah, interoperate, you know, with bite dance globally. You can see the arguments. I'm just saying, I don't think Tim Cook wants to sit in front of Congress ORG and talk about content moderation.

Speaker 71546.16s - 1553.92s

I think, Neely, they're going to use that exact quote you just said when they pull Tim Cook in front of Congress for buying TikTok ORG.

Speaker 31554.74s - 1561.28s

You have a good relationship with the Chinese government is precisely the reason not to buy TikTok if you're Tim Cook PERSON.

Speaker 61561.56s - 1562.4s

All right, moving on.

Speaker 31562.62s - 1573.4s

I think it would be the shock of all shocks of Appleby's TikTok ORG. Invita, third biggest market cap in the country right now. It feels a bit afield.No.

Speaker 71573.86s - 1574.22s

No.

Speaker 31574.68s - 1575.34s

Jensen PERSON's like,

Speaker 71575.68s - 1592.06s

he's a smart dude, right? Like he started that company from the ground up. He's still running it now. He made his big bet on AI. Like, they think very measured over there. Like,everything they do has a purpose and a point, even when it's a screw up. So I'd be like,

Speaker 61592.6s - 1598.4s

very surprised. Okay, allow me to make the countercase. I love it. I'm Jensen Wong PERSON. I have

Speaker 71598.4s - 1606.18s

somewhat intentionally, somewhat accidentally stumbled into just an unbelievable gold mine that is the

Speaker 61606.18s - 1622.42s

AI revolution. This will not last forever. Other people are going to figure out how to make GPUs as good as mine. And I'm not going to be able to sell H-100s PRODUCT for however much money I want to, whoever I want forever. I need another move.That other move is TikTok ORG.

Speaker 31624.22s - 1628s

I want that. Someone is writing that memo in video right now.

Speaker 41628.18s - 1629.2s

And then at the end of it, it's like,

Speaker 01629.56s - 1631.5s

question mark, question mark, question mark, profit. You know?

Speaker 31632.72s - 1637.4s

Like, this is the move that's as big as H100 PRODUCT. It's like, I don't know about that.

Speaker 61637.66s - 1645.04s

No, the other reason is there is a real version of this that is TikTok ORG as training data,

Speaker 41645.32s - 1662.02s

which I think is not worth $100 billion, but is also not worth nothing. And I think one reason a lot of these companies will take a good, hard look at TikTok ORG is not because they want to operate a social network forever, but because operating a social network gets them basically an infinite supply

Speaker 61662.02s - 1664.38s

of good training data for AI systems.

Speaker 71664.7s - 1665.52s

For now, right?

Speaker 61666.36s - 1674.14s

That's just what it is. I mean, this is what Mark Zuckerberg has been talking about with Facebook ORG. Like, they're touting the fact that they have this vast supply of stuff.

Speaker 31674.14s - 1680.04s

All right. So Jensen PERSON swoops in. And he's like, look, I'm already in the middle of geopolitical hot zones. Yeah.

Speaker 41680.22s - 1682.44s

Because I'm building chips with TSM in Taiwan GPE.

Speaker 31682.54s - 1693.72s

And the whole universe is organized around H100 production in Taiwan GPE. What if I had a little TikTok ORG to the mix? I could do it. All right. That's NVIDA. I'm putting that sub 50%.

Speaker 41693.72s - 1695.72s

Way sub 50.

Speaker 61695.72s - 1696.64s

But I'm into it.

Speaker 31696.76s - 1697.24s

Do it.

Speaker 61697.24s - 1697.28s

Do it.

Speaker 31697.28s - 1697.32s

Do it.

Speaker 61697.32s - 1698.32s

Do it.

Speaker 41698.32s - 1699.08s

Alphabet ORG.

Speaker 31699.72s - 1701.46s

Or as the people know at Google ORG.

Speaker 71703.32s - 1706.32s

I mean, I think that no one wants them to buy it.

Speaker 31707.34s - 1712.7s

If you want to ban TikTok, you let Google ORG buy it and just slowly kill it until they shut

Speaker 71712.7s - 1712.88s

it down.

Speaker 31713.68s - 1717.94s

Yeah, like that's what will happen. That is effectively a ban. So, no.

Speaker 71718.62s - 1727.78s

Do you think they're having a conversation? I think Google ORG's totally having that conversation, though. Like, they love a social media platform that they kill a few years later. This is just like...

Speaker 31727.78s - 1731s

So to David's point, this is a rich source of training data for Google ORG's own.

Speaker 71731s - 1733s

Yeah, I think that's why they're actually talking about it.

Speaker 31733.38s - 1751.62s

It is a long time ago when I asked Sundar PERSON about the web and what SEO is done to the web and where you would start a new thing if you were a new creator. He said, well, we have YouTube ORG. Right. So they know that all the sort of organic content that is made by human beings is happening on video platforms. This is a rich source of that.They're already searching TikTok ORG. You can search for TikToks on Google ORG search.

Speaker 61751.62s - 1757.28s

Yeah. Don't forget Google has been saying loudly for two years now that one of the biggest threats to Google search is TikTok ORG. Yep.

Speaker 71758.08s - 1761.46s

Which is again why they're not going to buy it.

Speaker 61761.46s - 1763.52s

This is the real Lena Con ORG hands on hips one, right?

Speaker 71763.62s - 1763.72s

Yeah.

Speaker 31764.52s - 1765.66s

Alphabet ORG would do this.

Speaker 61765.78s - 1768.66s

I believe absolutely yes, alphabet would do this.

Speaker 71769.04s - 1782.48s

It would be sued to death once Lina Khan is like already standing outside of the Google Plex and Mountain View with a lawsuit and just ready to like huck it into Sooner-R-Pichai's office the minute this happens.

Speaker 31783.04s - 1788.98s

I like if I'm if I'm sued R-Pashai, I would do this in one second, but there's

Speaker 71788.98s - 1790.22s

absolutely no chance that they will.

Speaker 31790.48s - 1807.3s

All right. So that's Google ORG. And the next one is really interesting, Amazon ORG. I think Amazon looks at TikTok ORG slowly turning into the home shopping network and moving an awful lot of records. And it's like, this is what we want.This is the future of shopping. Yeah.

Speaker 61807.48s - 1828.32s

Yep. Amazon ORG has been gently trying to do this on Amazon properties for a while. They've had creator brand things that they've done. They've brought people in. They've done video stuff. None of it has really worked.But yeah, I think, I think Amazon ORG of these is the one that makes the most sense and also probably the one that is most likely to be plausible.

Speaker 31828.88s - 1832.48s

Yeah, I don't think they don't run a social platform now in way, shape, or form.

Speaker 61833.12s - 1835.1s

So the antitrust issues don't seem so bad.

Speaker 41835.3s - 1841.72s

That said, you know, the Europeans just blocked Amazon ORG from buying eye robot because they were worried about concentration in the robotic vacuum market.

Speaker 61842.18s - 1848.08s

And Andy Jesse looked furious when he was talking about that on CNBC ORG. Just so mad. Yeah.

Speaker 31848.26s - 1850.64s

He's like, we're well beyond the law now. Like, are we?

Speaker 71851.66s - 1853.34s

It sounds like you're right by the law.

Speaker 31853.44s - 1865.06s

But they don't, but they don't have a social platform. And TikTok ORG really is a big advertising play. And Amazon ORG is actually one of the biggest advertisers out there. I could see it. I think this would probably turn TikTok ORG into something worse. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 71865.34s - 1868.96s

Yeah, this is like Google where you don't, if you're a TikTok ORG to you guys there,

Speaker 31869.06s - 1870.22s

you don't want this purchase.

Speaker 71870.7s - 1870.92s

Yeah.

Speaker 31871.46s - 1877.04s

Like where, can you imagine if you just combine Amazon Alphabet Soup brands with TikTok ORG shops

Speaker 71877.04s - 1878.16s

just general aesthetic?

Speaker 31878.16s - 1882.16s

Amazon ORG basics just nonstop in your feet.

Speaker 71882.22s - 1885.68s

I would 100% start calling that group of TikTok ORG creators

Speaker 31885.68s - 1889.64s

Amazon Basics. You know who I'm talking about.

Speaker 41889.64s - 1893.3s

Oh, yeah. Like the Amazon ORG basics, it would be bad for America GPE.

Speaker 31894.98s - 1906.46s

Okay, so that's Amazon ORG. That feels very likely. Of this list so far, Microsoft and Amazon ORG feel like the most likely to at least try. Then there's a meta, which feels like an immediate, hard now.Yeah.

Speaker 61906.66s - 1906.84s

Yeah.

Speaker 31906.96s - 1909.96s

And I think the TikTok ORG user base would revolt and leave if they tried.

Speaker 61910.28s - 1911.12s

Meta ORG would do it.

Speaker 31911.34s - 1918.42s

It wouldn't be allowed to do it. Oh, I'm sure what. Microsoft ORG was a killer. Yeah. He'd be like $100 billion? Like, how many people do I have to kill?

Speaker 61918.54s - 1920.24s

Well, it's done. It's been done.

Speaker 31920.5s - 1924.98s

And then at that point, I think Meadow would own the five most popular apps in existence.

Speaker 61925.28s - 1927.86s

And also, the regulators have a really good argument for Mehta PERSON right now, which is, hey, you just

Speaker 31927.86s - 1934.2s

made threads from scratch, and it's doing great by some, you know, fake accounting. It's bigger

Speaker 61934.2s - 1938.08s

than Twitter ORG. And I only say fake because Twitter's numbers are fake, and then it's like sensor

Speaker 31938.08s - 1942.56s

tower numbers, which are weird. No one's numbers are real. Yeah, you just mash together a bunch

Speaker 71942.56s - 1945.1s

of very truthy-feeling numbers. And like, like Threads is bigger than Twitter ORG. Fine.

Speaker 31945.56s - 1967.08s

But the argument would be, well, you can do it on your own. You don't need this. So we'll see. So that's, okay, that's all the companies with valuations in the T's. Notably, they are all tech companies. Then you slide down one notch.You go from six to seven. The valuations are now in the bees and the billions. And I would just say these are much funnier companies to consider. Berkshire Hathaway ORG. Yes.

Speaker 71968.04s - 1969.54s

That's the most likely, honestly.

Speaker 31969.72s - 1970.44s

Warren Buffett PERSON.

Speaker 71971.44s - 1972.8s

Warren Buffett PERSON's like social media.

Speaker 31972.98s - 1973.2s

Let's go.

Speaker 71973.2s - 1976.16s

Like Warren Buffett buying TikTok ORG so that he could

Speaker 31976.16s - 1977.98s

become like the ultimate TikToker

Speaker 61977.98s - 1979.52s

in the way that Elon Musk bought Twitter

Speaker 71979.52s - 1980.96s

so he could just be the tweeter.

Speaker 31981.36s - 1982.08s

Like perfect.

Speaker 61982.28s - 1986.32s

When I think of Warren Buffett PERSON, I think of the phrase burnout, not fade away, and buying TikTok ORG.

Speaker 31987.92s - 1989.94s

Really, just light a fire, baby.

Speaker 61990.52s - 1991.08s

Just get out there.

Speaker 31991.1s - 1991.84s

You got God go.

Speaker 61992.16s - 1995.94s

You got TikTok ORG. Driving in his old car to McDonald's every morning, just vlogging on TikTok ORG.

Speaker 31996s - 1997.46s

Are you kidding me? Come on.

Speaker 61998.22s - 1998.8s

It would be great.

Speaker 31998.96s - 1999.5s

I could see it.

Speaker 61999.56s - 2000.94s

I don't know how it fits in the portfolio.

Speaker 32002.18s - 2002.94s

It would be good.

Speaker 62004.06s - 2004.78s

Eli Lilly ORG?

Speaker 32005.92s - 2008.94s

It feels like a note. Visa ORG? Yeah?

Speaker 42009.94s - 2011.1s

J.P. Morgan Chase ORG.

Speaker 32011.52s - 2013.32s

Why not have a bank own TikTok ORG?

Speaker 62014.04s - 2015.78s

What if TikTok ORG was just

Speaker 32015.78s - 2016.84s

payments process?

Speaker 62017.98s - 2019.08s

At the end of the day.

Speaker 32019.46s - 2021.8s

Tesla is here at number 12 on the market cap list,

Speaker 62021.88s - 2025.58s

although that valuation fluctuating wildly with every breath Elon PERSON takes.

Speaker 32026.94s - 2030.24s

That feels like an obvious no, although the man does love a social network.

Speaker 62030.72s - 2036.3s

I mean, yeah, is Elon Musk himself a totally bonkers possibly here?

Speaker 32036.34s - 2039.94s

I will say Elon, you know, he's doing what he's doing on Twitter, and he's got Linda PERSON out there

Speaker 62039.94s - 2044.1s

being like, Twitter's a video for a platform, and then Elon PERSON is the most text forward person

Speaker 32044.1s - 2044.78s

in the entire world.

Speaker 62045.54s - 2045.94s

That's it.

Speaker 32046.18s - 2046.84s

I don't think so.

Speaker 62046.88s - 2047.84s

Yeah, he's not doing TikTok ORG.

Speaker 32048.1s - 2048.94s

This one's interesting.

Speaker 82049.94s - 2051.42s

Walmart ORG, which actually tried

Speaker 32051.42s - 2053.56s

to enter the TikTok ORG sweepstakes long ago

Speaker 02053.56s - 2056.3s

on the list, a huge American NORP company,

Speaker 82056.92s - 2057.74s

would be fascinating.

Speaker 02057.84s - 2059.04s

I think for the same reasons as Amazon ORG.

Speaker 32059.84s - 2067.2s

Right. Can we build a new kind of shopping distribution? I don't know. It does not seem likely. It does not seem like that's what.

Speaker 72067.86s - 2072.76s

They have so many ambitions and a lot of money. But like Amazon ORG, I don't want it.

Speaker 32073.08s - 2087.48s

All right. I'm just going to read the next five as an exercise for the reader. Just like silently consider them. And send us an email over which ones you think should buy TikTok of this list. Exxon Mobile ORG. Yes. Mastercard.

Speaker 42088.06s - 2089.12s

Proctor and Gamble ORG.

Speaker 32089.78s - 2094.06s

Home Depot ORG. Costco ORG. Bank of America. Okay.

Speaker 62094.14s - 2095.08s

Costco ORG is something.

Speaker 32095.38s - 2095.72s

Costco ORG.

Speaker 72095.88s - 2096.26s

There we go.

Speaker 62096.3s - 2102.26s

I just want to pause on Costco for one second. You know what is a brand that everybody loves? Costco ORG.

Speaker 72102.26s - 2103.26s

People love Costco ORG.

Speaker 62103.6s - 2109.6s

But if they have to start paying influencers a living wage like they do with their regular staff,

Speaker 72109.72s - 2109.98s

no.

Speaker 32110.5s - 2112.38s

That's too much money.

Speaker 72112.54s - 2115.12s

Yeah, Costco ORG's like a well, you know, it's a well-room company in that way.

Speaker 32115.82s - 2129.5s

Then there's the two tech companies I skipped over here. Oracle ORG, which is already in the mix. You can see it, right? They're already in the mix for a reason. And then Salesforce, which I think we should end with Salesforce because that is the darkest outcome for TikTok ORG.

Speaker 62131.22s - 2138.02s

So Salesforce buys TikTok and tries to turn it into what LinkedIn became for Microsoft ORG, basically.

Speaker 42138.56s - 2142.2s

Like Salesforce just goes all in on like business TikTok ORG.

Speaker 62142.84s - 2146.6s

Why not? This is the future of American small business is happening on TikTok ORG.

Speaker 32147.4s - 2168.86s

Small business TikTok ORG is still my favorite thing. They're pressure washer guys out there today. I mean, like it's spring, baby, light it up. And then they're immediately making TikTok ORG shop content where they're trying to convince me to buy an extremely obviously cheap surface cleaner where like they plug it in and you see the whole thing dent in as they plug in the water.I'm like, what are we doing here? Anyway, sorry. I have a lot of feelings of TikTok ORG right now.

Speaker 62170.18s - 2174.88s

You might watch too many ads on TikTok ORG. I just, you can just scroll past them. You know that, right?

Speaker 32174.98s - 2178.92s

Like, you just scroll past them. I'm just scroll until I get bloopers from the office. So I don't even

Speaker 02178.92s - 2183.6s

know what you're talking about. You started seeing they're doing like the shimmer effect across it to

Speaker 32183.6s - 2186.26s

prevent the content ID? It's very good.

Speaker 72186.3s - 2186.5s

Yeah.

Speaker 32186.86s - 2196.38s

TikTok, honestly, Disney should buy TikTok because TikTok is the most impressive laboratory of copyright infringement that exists in the world today. And maybe in world history.

Speaker 62196.74s - 2201.96s

So I was actually going to bring up Disney ORG as a wild card here. I don't think Disney ORG can afford to do this.

Speaker 02202.38s - 2212.52s

But I think like Disney ORG kicked the tires on Twitter a bunch of years ago. Disney is interested in a new media startup in a really big way. I think

Speaker 62212.52s - 2217.46s

TikTok is probably too big to be that thing for Disney, but I, if I'm Bob Eager PERSON, like I bet,

Speaker 72217.8s - 2229.64s

I bet there is a memo in that boardroom. Is Disney ORG still interested? Because I think when they kicked the tires on Twitter, that was also around the same time they launched Fusion PRODUCT, which was like their digital media play.

Speaker 32229.76s - 2233.28s

Yeah. That was the wasting money in Disney ORG era. Yeah.

Speaker 72233.44s - 2235.8s

I think they're beyond this point now. Yeah.

Speaker 62235.8s - 2244s

I don't think so. I think Disney ORG is in the business of getting young people to watch its stuff. And the answer to that is TikTok ORG.

Speaker 32244.38s - 2249.4s

I want to run a pull over in a car and just imagine with a TikTok ORG themed part of Walt

Speaker 62249.4s - 2256.98s

Disney World would look like to close that loop. Every ride is 60 seconds long. And you just leap

Speaker 32256.98s - 2262.2s

somewhat unsatisfying unless you do it a hundred times in a row. I don't think Bob Oiger PERSON wants

Speaker 62262.2s - 2265.98s

to talk about content moderation in front of Congress. I think that destroys Disney ORG's brand, right?

Speaker 32266.18s - 2314.44s

To be anywhere close to there is evidence the teenage girls are feeling depressed because of our product, not Disney ORG's zone. But it's interesting to consider because it is where, you know, like Disney missed out on Cocoa Mellon, which is a YouTube phenomenon and is now a Netflix ORG phenomenon. They don't have a pipeline for that stuff, and TikTok ORG might be that pipeline. I just, I don't think they have the money and I don't think they have the mental stamina basedon all the other things that are going to Zeme ORG. All right, that's the list. There's other stuff. You can talk about AMD ORG and Pepsi and Netflix ORG, but I feel like that's the list and you've got to end with Salesforce ORG, because I just want everyone to consider the darkest timeline. We'll see what happens.You know, a bunch of verge reporters are out in the world, pounding the pavement to see who wants to buy things. What Alex, he told me yesterday when I was like, hey, let's go through your list. He's like, it's crickets because they're all afraid Alina Khan PERSON.

Speaker 02314.88s - 2321.54s

And I think that is, that was how they were talking before Biden PERSON signed the bill. And I think that will change in the weeks to come.

Speaker 32321.96s - 2339.68s

But there's going to be a lawsuit. We'll see how it goes. Kind of a wild time, though. If you've been paying attention to the Verchast PERSON, you know that we generally think, like, all of social media in the internet is being,like, table flipped upheaval and, like, things are shaken out in different ways. This is one pretty big table flip. Yeah.

Speaker 62339.82s - 2373.32s

I think it's going to be really interesting to see how this radiates outward, too, because, like, there's been a lot of talk in the last couple of days about what this is going to mean for Instagram and for YouTube shorts and for Snap ORG, and there's this sense of a handful of companies in the U.S. that really stand to benefit from the downfall of TikTok ORG. And I think where people go, if they go, and how those platforms start to change,is going to yet again upend the rest of everything. Like if TikTok suddenly floods into YouTube ORG, it will change YouTube completely.

Speaker 72373.82s - 2379.88s

Oh, there's going to be a land grab, 100%. Yeah. Between like the QVC nature of TikTok ORG and this,

Speaker 62380.36s - 2383.92s

all those like edge case people, the people who aren't really, really into it are going to be like,

Speaker 72384s - 2387.3s

yeah, I'll just, I'll go somewhere else because at least I'm not getting sold to.

Speaker 32387.74s - 2411.96s

Yeah, and this is, you will recall, what happened with Vine PRODUCT, right? The Exodus of Vine to YouTube ORG really changed the nature of YouTube. So you can just feel coming. By the way, I forgot, I was just scrolling, I forgot the darkest timeline option, which I'm just going to say, and I'm going to cut to a break.Verizon Vice TikTok ORG. That's it. We'll be right back. We've got to talk about the Rabbit R1 PRODUCT. Support for the Vergecast comes from Coda PRODUCT.

Speaker 52412.42s - 2529.72s

If you look at your desktop and are overwhelmed by all the tabs and tools you have running, you're not alone, my friend. It's a lot. So if you're looking for an all-in-one workspace designed to keep teams on the same page, you might want to check out Coda PRODUCT. Coda helps organize your workday, blending the flexibility of docs, the structure of spreadsheets, the power of applications, and the intelligence of AI to make work, well, less work.With Kota's extensive planning capabilities, you can stay aligned by managing your planning cycles in one location, while also setting and measuring objectives and key results with full visibility across your teams. You can communicate and collaborate on documents and goal roadmaps instantly. Over 50,000 teams across the world collaborate with Coda from the New York Times to square, from toast to TED and Uber ORG. If you're interested in a platform that can empower your team to collaborate effectively and focus on shared goals, you can get started with Coda today for free.Head over to coda.io slash verge. That's coda.io slash verge to get started for free. Cota.io. 4.4. Support for the Vergecast comes from Squarespace. It's 2024, and that means one of the first places people will look to learn more about you is online. And that's why for any new project, you need a website. Luckily, building a website is a breeze with Squarespace ORG. Squarespace is an all-on-one platform that you can use to build a website and help people find your ventures.Even if you have little to know experience creating a website, you don't need to worry, because Squarespace ORG makes it straightforward and easy for anyone to do. Squarespace ORG can help you get your name out there, with plenty of tools to help make your site look just how you wanted to, with plenty of customization to tailor it to your particular needs. It could be a place for people to buy from you, schedule appointments, or just browse to findout more about you. You can get started building an online home for whatever it is you're passionate about. Like Squarespace ORG says, a website makes it real. Head to Squarespace.com slash Verge PRODUCT to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code Verge.

Speaker 22531.66s - 2587.38s

Support for this show comes from Art, Beats, and Lyrics, a new documentary from Vox Creative ORG, along with Jack Daniels, Tennyson Honey, and Cult Creative ORG. Directed by Bill Horace, Art Beats, and Lyric PRODUCT showcases how a humble art show has grown into a cultural phenomenon. The film unveils the origin stories of the events founder, Jabari Graham, and its curator Dwayne W. Wright, exploring how Atlanta has shaped their individual past while also revealing their distinct roles within art, beats, and lyrics. The documentary follows Jabari W. And several of this year's feature artists as they gear up for AB&L's 20th anniversary tour,captivating thousands of fans at each and every show. Stream art, beats, and lyrics now on Hulu ORG. Please drink responsibly. Whiskey specialty, 35% alcohol by volume, Jack Daniels Distillery, Lynchburg, Tennessee GPE. Jack Daniels and Tennessee Honey PRODUCT are registered trademarks. 2024 Jack Daniels ORG, All Rights Reserve.We're back.

Speaker 32588.06s - 2593.1s

I just want to say if AT&T bought TikTok ORG. Imagine what Zach Snyder PERSON would get up to.

Speaker 62593.48s - 2599.6s

Well, it would immediately be spun off into some other. David Zazlov would own it six months later, so it would be fine.

Speaker 32599.6s - 2602.72s

Four three gray scale TikToks PRODUCT for everyone. Extremely dark.

Speaker 62603.12s - 2607.32s

We've been talking a lot about terrible movies on this podcast recently. Should we talk about Rebel Moon WORK_OF_ART?

Speaker 32607.92s - 2608.88s

Speaking of...

Speaker 62608.88s - 2612.06s

That one's like very bad. It's so obviously bad.

Speaker 72612.06s - 2613.44s

Yeah, I haven't even looked at it.

Speaker 32614s - 2621.24s

I saw, I don't think this is a spoiler. I saw a screenshot of one of the final scenes where the ship is revealed to be a woman who is hogtied. Oh.

Speaker 62621.46s - 2621.86s

Good stuff.

Speaker 72622.2s - 2623.6s

It doesn't seem like my bag.

Speaker 32624.1s - 2626.78s

Also, that's almost certainly a spoiler, and I just don't care.

Speaker 72626.94s - 2628.08s

So I'm sorry to everyone who...

Speaker 32628.08s - 2631.22s

Now, I mean, it does make me kind of want to watch it, but just so I can be mad while

Speaker 72631.22s - 2631.82s

watching it.

Speaker 32632.5s - 2633.78s

That's how I felt about Hartnought WORK_OF_ART.

Speaker 62635.52s - 2636.36s

To be clear.

Speaker 72636.68s - 2637.76s

Just rage watch.

Speaker 62638.68s - 2640.34s

Enough, enough of the Zach Steiner PERSON talk.

Speaker 72640.64s - 2640.86s

Yeah.

Speaker 62641s - 2645.96s

Look, the man took his bag from AT&T, and he made a square movie in Grayscale FAC where Superman

Speaker 32645.96s - 2646.86s

is super weird.

Speaker 42647.6s - 2650.38s

And you bring it up like three out of every four podcasts.

Speaker 32650.64s - 2653.72s

You know, the policy thing that we're not about, we don't have time to talk about

Speaker 42653.72s - 2656.9s

is soon a net neutrality will become the law of land again and everyone's going

Speaker 32656.9s - 2659.12s

to talk about how net neutrality didn't mean anything, blah, blah, and I'm just going to be

Speaker 62659.12s - 2663.54s

like, Justice League happened to you because you repealed net neutrality.

Speaker 32664.02s - 2667.48s

That's a real, that was a real outcome of repealing that neutrality.

Speaker 62667.92s - 2670.14s

You don't believe me, but it's 100% true.

Speaker 32670.3s - 2693.08s

All right. I want to talk about the thing that I've been most excited to talk about all week. David, you went to a party at the TWA hotel at JFK in New York GPE, which is a wild place to have a gadget launch. You saw grab it happen. There was a demo on stage, which we should talk about because to have a gadget launch. You saw, grab it happen. There was a demo on stage, which we should talk about because I have a lot of feelingsabout that demo. And now you are holding a rabbit R1 PRODUCT. You have a review unit.

Speaker 62693.16s - 2693.6s

Show it.

Speaker 72693.7s - 2694.9s

It's just so orange.

Speaker 32694.9s - 2697.5s

It's mine. I bought this with my own money. Yeah.

Speaker 62697.78s - 2698.3s

Oh, it's yours.

Speaker 32698.46s - 2716.18s

It's on review units. It's not, they didn't do review units. This was, so what I went to was the, uh, the pickup party for the first, I think it was 300 R1s PRODUCT that came out. So they, they invited a bunch of media,but we had to buy our own in order to get into the event, which is fine.

Speaker 02716.18s - 2716.62s

Very good.

Speaker 42716.72s - 2728.16s

Uh, I should say to people, like, who don't know how this process normally works. Often for reviews, people will ship us something and we'll test it and review it and thenwe ship it back. That's usually how it works because if I had to buy every single thing that I wrote about, I would be homeless.

Speaker 62729.22s - 2750.58s

So that's usually how it works. But in this case, we had to buy the thing. So now I own this thing. Luckily, it was only $200.But so we get to the TWA ORG hotel, which is amazing. I had never been. It's like, it's a very old terminal at JFK FAC that has since been converted into this very swanky, kind of old fashioned hotel. It's awesome. Highly recommend I had never been there before. I will probably never go

Speaker 72750.58s - 2755.76s

again, but it was super cool. You should only go if you're having to fly in or out of JFK FAC.

Speaker 62756.24s - 2760.3s

Yeah. Oh, God. It took me two trains in an Uber ORG to get there. Like, I don't recommend this

Speaker 72760.3s - 2768s

plan otherwise. But yeah, so it was me and 300 or so other people along with a bunch of rapid employees

Speaker 62768s - 2830.62s

in this space. They had done lots of, you know, work to overhaul it. It had a big stage in the middle. They had a 360 photo booth and a speakeasy upstairs. There was a bar with signature drinks. They were doing all kinds of merchy stuff.It was very much like an old school tech party. Like I haven't been to one of those since before the pandemic where it's just like a company with too much money that's just like, what if we just blew a bunch of it on this large event space? And then Jesse Liu PERSON, the founder and CEO got up and spent like an hour basically just doing demos. And he's been doing this for the last couple of months,kind of with increasing frequency, showing off how this thing works and what it can do and all this stuff. And he just sort of stood on stage and did a bunch of demos that were ostensibly live. And I have many questions about all of them. And then gave them out to that first group of, you know, 300 people.And so it was everybody there had like literally bought a thing to be there. So the room was very excited. And there were a lot of people

Speaker 02830.62s - 2835.62s

who had been in the Discord for months, sort of reading about the humane reviews and figuring

Speaker 62835.62s - 2847.36s

out what was going on and trying to get details on what this thing would do and how it would work. And lots of people, it was very funny, like being in line for a bar while people are behind me debating how the large language model works. And there was a guy who was funny, like, being in line for a bar while people are behind me debating how the large language model works.

Speaker 02847.42s - 2854.1s

And there was a guy who was like, yeah, every time you ask a question, you're eating into that $199 price. And I was just like, these are my people.

Speaker 62854.7s - 2862s

It was great. I had a delightful time, except that it was at 7 p.m. on a Tuesday night, and I'm very old, and I can't hang like that anymore. Yeah.

Speaker 32862.22s - 2862.38s

Yeah.

Speaker 62862.42s - 2865.74s

So you've got the thing now. I have the thing. It's right here. You've only had it for a day. I don't think this is a review. But I was watching the like that anymore. Yeah. Yeah. So you've got the thing now. I have the thing. It's right here.

Speaker 32865.88s - 2870.14s

You've only had it for a day. I don't think this is a review. But I was watching the demo that he'd on stage.

Speaker 42870.68s - 2872.64s

And two things struck me with that demo.

Speaker 32872.84s - 2884.44s

One, there was a little disclaimer on the stream and he showed himself turning off the Wi-Fi. The entire demo was done over 4G LT PRODUCT, not 5G, the one that is famously claimed to have very low latency.

Speaker 42884.68s - 2888.7s

Good old 4G-LT, which is an interesting choice, but that's $109.

Speaker 32889.28s - 2902.46s

And then he kept pointing out how fast everything was. At one point, he took a picture and, you know, the thing did the thing where the AI told you it was in the picture. And I was like, I don't think that uploaded over 4GLT that felt.

Speaker 62902.52s - 2927.54s

Like literally just the basics of it didn't seem like it was making sense. So two things on that. One, none of it was fast. Like, go back and watch it again. He did a very good job of sort of talking through his demos so that while it was waiting for stuff to happen, it would work. And there were a few times where he would do something and it would pretty instantly do it.But what it does very well is it signposts as it's doing stuff.

Speaker 02927.62s - 2932.8s

So, like, you'll ask it a question and it'll respond and say, let me go get that for you. And then it's say, I'm going to get that for you. And then it gets it for you.

Speaker 62932.84s - 2957.22s

And what you've, what it doesn't do is just sort of leave you hanging in awkward silence for several seconds, which feels like an eternity. But it does take a while to do a lot of things. And with the photo, uh, having now tested this a bunch, what it does when you like hold up the thing and say, you know, look at this and tell me what you see,which is like the sort of computer vision thing that a lot of these gadgets do, it's not taking a good picture.

Speaker 02957.42s - 2979.74s

It takes an awful picture. And I can show you the awful pictures I've been taking. But it literally just uploads just the tiniest little bit of data in order to be able to answer thequestion, is there a crowd full of people or like a begonia in front of you? Right? Like that is the fidelity that it needs and that is all of the fidelity that it gets. So I actually think that particular one

Speaker 62979.74s - 2981.88s

seems plausible to me. I guess I

Speaker 32981.88s - 2992.34s

do need to watch it again because I was just struck by the speed at which things appeared to be happening over a 4G connection. Not even a 5G connection, over a 4G connection.

Speaker 42992.58s - 2994.04s

I'm not even putting this on Rabbit PRODUCT.

Speaker 32994.14s - 3014.78s

I'm just like, I've used LTE connections before. They're not fast, especially now, right? When all the bandwidth is being prioritized to the 5G connections, all the spectrums are being prioritized over there. That was one. And then the other thing that struck me was how much stuff it can't do that we were Right? When all the bandwidth is being prioritized to the 5G connections. All the spectrums are being prioritized over there.That was one. And then the other thing that struck me was how much stuff it can't do that we were shown at doing at the first launch of that NCS PRODUCT where that stuff is just nowhere close.

Speaker 63015.44s - 3060.02s

Like everything? It's weird. And even after being at that launch event where he got up on stage, Jesse, and said out loud, I am going to demo all of the things that it can do from day one. And I have been testing those things and it can't do some of them. So one of the big things that Rabbit PRODUCT has been talking about is this thing called the large action model. And the idea is that it can actually like learn how to use apps on your behalf.That's like, that's its whole pitch. It's not just like a thing for chat GPT. It's a thing where you can say go do Spotify for me, right? Or like go interact with Photoshop PRODUCT for me. That's literally one of things they've talked about. Like, you can teach it how to use Photoshop PRODUCT for you. That is not coming soon. It's not, it's like a thing that somebody had the idea to do. It's like when we talk

Speaker 03060.02s - 3100.14s

about car renders, right? It's like it's at the render stage as far as I can tell. And then there's a bunch of stuff that seems very basic. Like, I gave Humane ORG a lot of crap for not supporting things like alarms and reminders. And these very basic things. And you know what the Rabbit R1 PRODUCT doesn't support is alarms and reminders. And I ironically, like Humane ORG, like the deja vu of all of this is bananas for me. Like, like Humane, Jesse PERSON stood on stage and put up a big slide with,here's all the cool stuff we're shipping in summer of 2024. And it's things like alarm, calendar, contacts, GPS, memory recall, travel planning, Yelp ORG,

Speaker 63100.7s - 3102.34s

like basic things.

Speaker 03102.68s - 3105.96s

These are things that you should have from the beginning.

Speaker 43107.38s - 3109.94s

And there's just not really a good reason not to have it.

Speaker 63110.02s - 3122.92s

So right now, again, I've been testing this thing for a grand total of like 16 hours, some of which I was asleep, right? Like none of this is final yet, but like a lot of things about this device do not work very well. Yeah.

Speaker 43123.36s - 3125.62s

And it only has four apps, right?

Speaker 63125.92s - 3126.18s

Yeah.

Speaker 73126.96s - 3127.38s

Yeah.

Speaker 63127.5s - 3209.6s

So I will say the biggest, most complicated question about the rabbit is how this large action model works and thus what you're giving it access to. So when you log into the website, which is called Rabbit Hole, which I enjoy very much, the branding on this thing is on point. They've done a very good job. When you're playing music,there's a little rabbit guy with headphones on. Like, it's great. Excellent branding exercise. Well done. But you log into Rabbit Hole PRODUCT and you go to, there's a tab called Connections PRODUCT.And it like lists all the apps you can connect to. And right now it's four. Like you said, it's Spotify, DoorDash, Uber, and Mid Journey ORG. Which is a strange four, but whatever. And then, so you click on the Connect button,and what it does is open up a virtual machine on Rabbit PRODUCT's servers through which you just log into the Spotify ORG web interface or the DoorDash ORG web interface. So like I click on the DoorDash ORG button and literally it opens the DoorDash ORG website, just the homepage of DoorDash. interface. So, like, I click on the DoorDash button, and literally it opens the DoorDash website,just the homepage of DoorDash.com ORG, on the thing. And then I had to go click sign in. I had to enter in my credentials. And then I clicked continue, like I'm signing into DoorDash ORG normally. And then it closes that window because now it has stored my credentials.And what Rabbit PRODUCT says is it doesn't store your credentials. It just stores, like, an authentication token so that you stay logged in. And to to that I say, like, have you ever tried to stay logged into a service on the

Speaker 03209.6s - 3226.24s

internet? Like, it's not possible. You can't the keep me logged in button doesn't work. So there is something else going on here. And there are a lot of people who are like, oh, what you're doing is you're just exposing all of your login credentials to a virtual machine that's just sitting on Rabbit PRODUCT's computer. Like you're just uploading your life to Rabbit PRODUCT's servers. That's stupid.

Speaker 33226.38s - 3233.92s

Well, there's also one step beyond that, which is you have now logged into DoorDash on Rabbit PRODUCT servers, and it's logged in.

Speaker 63235.2s - 3275.24s

So it doesn't matter if you have the credential. Well, right. You have perfect logged in access to DoorDash ORG. Yes. And I think for me, I'm logging into all of these things because I have to test this thing.But, like, even logging into Spotify ORG felt strange. Like, this is, like, this is actually kind of a lot of access to information about me that you just have now. And that's odd. But anyway, the interface for that sucks. The system isn't very good. I have not yet successfully used DoorDash ORG.Every single time I try to do it, I, like, I, you know, you press the button on the side and you say, order me some food. And every single time it says DoorDash may take a while to load on Rabbit OS PRODUCT, which is very funny. And then it just immediately fails every single time.

Speaker 33275.24s - 3285.88s

So what's happening in the background there from what I gather, what the heart of the large action model is it's going to click around on the DoorDash ORG website for you.

Speaker 63286.66s - 3288.04s

I believe that's correct.

Speaker 33288.24s - 3288.36s

Yeah.

Speaker 63288.52s - 3301.58s

I think the long-term plan here is to have more, let's say, robust integrations that they can actually, like, there's way to you do that with, like, structured data that you can get to some of that stuff. But that's the old way, right?

Speaker 33301.66s - 3308.66s

Like DoorDash ORG has an API, and we've built a weird interface for DoorDash on our little orange square. You don't need a bunch of AI for that.

Speaker 63308.86s - 3310.92s

No, you don't. But it works.

Speaker 33311.96s - 3312.38s

Right.

Speaker 63312.48s - 3319.12s

So this is like you're logged into DoorDash ORG, and we're going to show you pictures of the, we're going to understand the DoorDash interface for you.

Speaker 33319.64s - 3329.22s

And then we're going to say, buy me this food, and we're just going to use the DoorDash ORG website on your behalf. Like that's the, that is my understanding of what the large action model should do.

Speaker 63329.64s - 3349.84s

Yeah, no, that's, that's exactly right. And part of the process that they make, that they're in theory, one day, someday, someday when this launches, going to make you go through is training the apps that you use. Like, this is where you click to do X, and this is where you click to do Y,and you scroll down to get to the other thing. And that is, that is how you teach these models how to do X and this is where you click to do Y and you scroll down to get to the other thing. And that is how you teach these models how to do this stuff. And the reason

Speaker 33349.84s - 3359.32s

they've worked with these four apps now is because their people have done that training with these four apps. Do they have deals with the four apps? Do they have deals with Spotify ORG and Uber

Speaker 63359.32s - 3366.02s

and DoorDash are competitors? Like Uber Eats ORG exists. Yeah. I don't know, but I sure doubt it.

Speaker 33366.02s - 3367.68s

I have a more basic question.

Speaker 73368.58s - 3384.72s

Okay. I know you've only spent, what, 16 hours with it, but in that time, have you had an experience with it where you're like, oh, wow, I would willingly train this model when I get more access to it to have these kind of experience with another app?

Speaker 63385.88s - 3391.72s

The Spotify ORG integration is the one to me that I'm like, this is the thing I really want to work. Does it?

Speaker 03392.26s - 3393.56s

No, it's awful.

Speaker 73394.02s - 3396.3s

It is so, so bad, you guys.

Speaker 03396.38s - 3408.9s

I can't even tell you how bad it is. I just give you a bunch of examples. I say to the thing, play my Discover weekly playlist, and it plays every single time a song called Can You Discover by a band Discovery ORG. That's good.

Speaker 63409.46s - 3411.94s

I say play Beyonce PERSON's new album.

Speaker 03411.94s - 3415.9s

And it played like a lullaby version of Crazy and Love WORK_OF_ART.

Speaker 63416.5s - 3449.9s

And it's weird because it's not even like it's just searching and playing the first result. Because if you go to Spotify and search Discover Weekly, it shows you your Discovery Weekly ORG playlist. So in theory, that shouldn't be that hard a problem. It's doing some weird thing that I can't figure out yet and almost always does it wrong. So if I ask like a very basic question, like play Justin Timberlake PERSON,that works. It'll play a Justin Timberlake PERSON song. And I have done that many, many times. But anything more complicated, at least so far it has fallen apart on me every single time.

Speaker 33449.9s - 3483s

See, this is why I don't understand about how it's working. If you're saying you can go to Spotify ORG's website and type in Crazy in Love, and it shows you the first result is correct. Theoretically, that is all the large action model is doing on the back end. It's looking at the web interface.It's identifying the search box. It's entering the string. It's saying, here's the first result and it's double-clicking on it. By the way, this is not some radically new idea, right? Like big businesses deploy robotic process automation to run their billing systems on Windows 98 PRODUCT. Billion dollar companies exist to deploy this at the enterprise scale.

Speaker 63483s - 3501.3s

And Rabbit PRODUCT has more or less acknowledged that that is what it's doing, by the way. There was this weird thing. I don't know if you saw that there's somebody, it was called like Rabbit scam on GitHub ORG. GitHub ORG sort of said they had found a bunch of code showing that all Rabbit PRODUCT was doing was just lifting stuff off of webpages

Speaker 43501.3s - 3514.04s

and running the same systems that everybody else runs in order to like understand what's going on on a website. And they were like, this isn't as scary as you think it is like, yeah, that's what we do. That's our public code. So like they're acknowledging

Speaker 33514.04s - 3518.52s

that this is what is going on. And I think it's not working. Like, yeah, if you were, again,

Speaker 43518.52s - 3524.4s

if you're like some midsize hospital system and you hire UiPath ORG to show up and do RPA and it's like,

Speaker 33526.38s - 3526.5s

we're doing the lullaby versions, you're like, fire them. It's like get rid of them, right? UiPath ORG to show up and do RPA. And it's like, we're doing the lullaby versions.

Speaker 63527.28s - 3527.52s

You're like, fire them.

Speaker 33528.6s - 3529.1s

It's like, get rid of them, right?

Speaker 73533.04s - 3534.08s

UiPath ORG is a billion dollar company because it can do robotic process automation reliably at scale.

Speaker 33534.28s - 3534.64s

Like, why?

Speaker 73534.96s - 3535.86s

Rabbit costs $200.

Speaker 33536.38s - 3551.26s

Well, cost $200, but even the thing, like the basic thing, we entered a string of text into a search box and we played the first result. Like the industry, the robotic process automation industry knows how to do that. So why can't it do that? Like it feels like it's

Speaker 73551.26s - 3557.46s

doing something else. Is it like inserting a little clipy in there? Is it trying to like be smart

Speaker 63557.46s - 3562.38s

for you? It might be. It's also possible that it's doing something different with Spotify ORG because

Speaker 73562.38s - 3566.06s

Spotify ORG like has an actual sort of corpus of data

Speaker 63566.06s - 3595.7s

that it lets other systems access. So I can't speak to Spotify ORG in particular, but at least from the demos that I've seen, again, I haven't been able to get DoorDash ORG to work once. But from Jesse's demo of DoorDash ORG, that seemed very clearly to be the thing using the website.Because the way that he showed what was working was he kept refreshing Doordash.com on his laptop and it would show that something had been added to the cart on the website. That's not like a thing that happens if you use like a third-party API to do all of this stuff.

Speaker 33595.76s - 3603.32s

That is just a thing using the web app for you. So this is the part that I'm just like most interested in because DoorDash ORG is the slowest one. And they said it's the slowest one.

Speaker 63603.5s - 3608.18s

And there comes a point at which all this like just horsepower through the interface

Speaker 33608.18s - 3633.78s

with computer vision, it just hits the wall of like, what if you just had an API? Right. What if you could just instead of trying to have a robot figure out what's happening on an interface made for humans, what if you just let the robot talk to the application directly using actual API commands? The example that I'll give people, one of my favorite companies that I wished had succeeded was Kavo PRODUCT, the universal remote company that I hyped up on the show over and over

Speaker 43633.78s - 3637.64s

again. They were doing exactly this to build the universal remote. You plugged all of your

Speaker 33637.64s - 3653.4s

devices into the Kavo, and the Kavo is doing computer vision to watch your Apple TV ORG interface or whatever and click around on your behalf. So you can just say the name of a show and the name of a service and it would just like bang around your TV and use it for you. And this shit was awesome when it worked. It was very slow and it was

Speaker 83653.4s - 3659.92s

extraordinarily brittle when it broke. Yeah, it never worked. Like the win is very generous.

Speaker 73660.18s - 3665.04s

Yeah. Sometimes it worked, you know. And it was cool. It was very cool in those moments.

Speaker 33665.12s - 3667.08s

It worked, but most of the time it didn't.

Speaker 73667.28s - 3667.42s

Right.

Speaker 33667.48s - 3692.36s

And then the thing that really got you was it wouldn't even show you the clicking around. Like it would put up the cavo screen and you would hear it like booping in the background. You'd like, can I just see if you're getting this right? I would love to check your work. And then you'd be like, that is not what I wanted to happen at all. Or it would just error out.But the idea that like you've got a bunch of devices plugged into a central HTML switcher and you're like watch the show and it knows that's the Apple ORG TV and you're like, I want to play PlayStation PRODUCT and switches the input and bangs around the place. Like all that was

Speaker 43692.36s - 3698.96s

awesome. But it failed because fundamentally the approach is brittle. Right. It just,

Speaker 33699.46s - 3715.78s

there are known ways for it to break when the computer cannot understand what's seeing. It's $19. Like, can they overcome this problem, or do they actually just need to build a bunch of APIs? And then you've got something that looks like a,I think you have in your piece. That's just a mid-range Android PRODUCT smartphone with weird apps. Yeah,

Speaker 63715.82s - 3766.6s

the answer is ultimately both, right? And I think, I think Humane ORG has said this about what it's working on. Rabbit PRODUCT has alluded to this too. Like, they eventually want to build big enough systemsthat others will actually integrate with. Because the reason to not rely on APIs is that you're a tiny startup and nobody cares about you and nobody will make the deals with you. So you do hacky computer vision stuff so that you don't have to get the deals.Because by and large, they can't really stop you from doing that. They can get mad and they have some ways, but it's a more winnable game in that particular respect. But the way for them to do this, they all acknowledge, is to eventually have those more official partnerships that just give them access to the Dordash PRODUCT API. And then, like, this doesn't all have to be AI, right? Like, I actually think we, like, run into a trap when we assume that the only way to do AI things

Speaker 03766.6s - 3778.38s

is for all of it to be AI. Like, some of it shouldn't be. We've solved a lot of problems, actually. Like, we're pretty good at a lot of things that don't require pinging a large language models for order McDonald ORG's.Like, that's like...

Speaker 43778.38s - 3795.94s

ordering McDonald ORG's on the internet is, like, a solved problem. We're very good at it now. And so I think we'll land there with a lot of stuff, but one nice thing you can do with these models is you can hack together a kind of n-solution to a lot of those business deals without needing those business deals. And I think that's what

Speaker 63795.94s - 3799.14s

all of these companies are doing at first. The question is what our Dorash ORG is going to say.

Speaker 33799.22s - 3802.9s

This is illegal scraping of our website. Like there's another whole set of problems that you kind

Speaker 63802.9s - 3806.76s

of walk into immediately. I mean, the good news for DoorDash is DoorDash just wants you to order McDonald's ORG, right?

Speaker 33806.82s - 3821.44s

Like, and I think that's the assumption that they're making, right? Like Uber ORG wants me in an Uber and is very happy anything that happens that gets me in an Uber. Same with DoorDash ORG and me ordering McDonald's. To Spotify ORG, if I want to stream copyrighted music to an orange rectangle.

Speaker 63821.96s - 3826.42s

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. They They dated on their list of things that are coming.

Speaker 33826.5s - 3827.08s

It's Apple Music ORG.

Speaker 63827.28s - 3828.26s

And it's like, is it?

Speaker 33829.2s - 3830.36s

Is that one coming?

Speaker 63831.24s - 3832.38s

Have you met them?

Speaker 33832.76s - 3834.82s

Like, they don't like competitors.

Speaker 63835.08s - 3837.32s

They're not, you know, even Apple Music ORG, which is theoretically the, you know,

Speaker 33837.36s - 3879.38s

horizontal play across, like, have you tried Apple Music on Android PRODUCT? You think your weird little robot is going to be allowed to use Apple Music ORG on web that way? I don't know. We'll see. I'm very excited for you to review this thing. I think that central question of like at $199 with no recurring fee, can you make this a business that needs to improve on some of the core AI features that is reliant on?Look at this way. The thing you're saying, a bunch of these are solved problems, right? Okay, that's great. The things that are sort of easiest to do are solve problems. Order some food, call out, ride, play songs, all API stuff. That means you're relying on the AI to solve all of the edge cases.

Speaker 43880.02s - 3884.1s

Go to Photoshop PRODUCT and draw a cropping square around a thing.

Speaker 33884.1s - 3903.54s

Like, that is not a solved problem. You cannot API your way into doing that in Photoshop PRODUCT in the general case. You can do it maybe in some specialized ways. Okay, you're now, it's $199 with no recurring revenue. Can you make an AI that can solve for the general case of using a computer? Is the question that this thing is asking?And I just like don't know the answer.

Speaker 73904.26s - 3913.54s

I feel the answer is probably no. But David, I just need you to do one thing for me. Can you hold it up to the mic and, like, click one of the buttons? I just need to know how clicky they are.

Speaker 33913.94s - 3916.32s

It's pretty quiet. Yeah.

Speaker 73916.8s - 3918.78s

Oh, it's so quiet. That's nothing. Yeah.

Speaker 33918.9s - 3919.62s

He's clicking right now.

Speaker 73919.72s - 3922.9s

Pull over in your car. Turn off the engine. Roll up the windows.

Speaker 33923.62s - 3925.58s

Click, click, click. That's what sounds like that was it. No, do it without the clicks. up the windows. Click, click, click. That's what it sounds like.

Speaker 43925.82s - 3926.74s

No, do it without the clicks.

Speaker 63926.86s - 3927.76s

They're pulled over now.

Speaker 43927.92s - 3928.22s

Oh, yeah.

Speaker 63930.66s - 3931.46s

That sounds so bad.

Speaker 33932.38s - 3934.08s

The people in the electric car are like, what engine?

Speaker 63935.92s - 3950.44s

No, but to me the thing is like the big open question for me with both the Humane pin and this was like, what is like the one thing that this is actually for it? And I keep hoping it's going to be music. And Humane almost got there, what is like the one thing that this is actually for it? And I keep hoping it's going to be music. And humane almost got there, except for all the ways it was awful.

Speaker 03951.04s - 3961.42s

And this, like I was excited because it's Spotify ORG and Spotify is what I and hundreds of millions of other people use to listen to music. Just not there. But so far it's a pretty good

Speaker 63961.42s - 3988.46s

like question and answer machine, which I'm happy about. Rabbit PRODUCT has a big integration with perplexity, the AI search engine. So for like relatively real time questions, like the NFL draft is tomorrow as we're recording this. And I was asking a bunch of questions about like who is likely to go where in the NFL ORG draft. And it had good up-to-date information about the NFL ORG draft. Like that's cool.Cue all the people saying, why can't I just do it on my smartphone? Like, you super duper can.

Speaker 03989.36s - 3990.98s

But what's weird to me about this so far,

Speaker 43991.06s - 4001.6s

and again, I have a lot of testing and stuff left to do. It's like, this little thing, the gadget itself, feels right for this moment in AI. Like, it's pretty cheap. It's not that ambitious. It's sort of silly and fun.

Speaker 64002.06s - 4038.3s

It's like, worst case scenario, it's just like, will look cool on my desk. Yeah, people pay a lot more for cool things on their desk, right? But they're also at the same time talking about this massive world-changing visionfor where it will all go. And Jesse PERSON, to his credit, is constantly sort of tamping that down, saying we're just at the very beginning. We haven't solved most of these problems. He said something at the beginning of his speech last night that was like, I'm going to try all these demos.And if they don't work, I'll try them again. And if they still don't work, we'll fix it.

Speaker 04038.56s - 4054.2s

And I was like, what a perfect summation of like the time we're in for AI. And so I think all of that is right. And I appreciate kind of the, like, realism of what Rabbit PRODUCT is doing as opposed to like humane, which is like, you know, sort of brought from the earth fully formed. We have solved this.

Speaker 64055.44s - 4061.24s

But then they're still like wildly overstating what this thing can actually do in a way that I find very frustrating.

Speaker 34061.88s - 4100.92s

There's much of our comments on your hands-on post. So like, why are you being nicer to this inhumane? And it's like, well, one, it's not actually the review yet. Important note. Like, we're just holding the thing. And two, it's like, it's $200.Yeah. And that's just different. But I am very curious to see as you go through this review process how much it needs to lean on the computer vision piece because the more it has to do that, which is the AI of it all,the worst it's going to be. Yes. I feel that very keenly. All right. Some more things we should talk about in this section. Apple announced a May 7th event for new iPads PRODUCT.Two things about this. One, it's just an infomercial. Just like tune in to watch our stream. No one's going anywhere.

Speaker 44101.7s - 4103.78s

And then they're calling it Let It Loose WORK_OF_ART.

Speaker 34104.2s - 4111.7s

And our friend Joanna Stern PERSON pointed this out. The S in Loose PRODUCT looks like a G, so it's let it luge, which is, if you want to think about

Speaker 44111.7s - 4114.12s

what that means in the context of you iPads PRODUCT, I welcome you.

Speaker 34114.76s - 4118.86s

I personally believe Apple is announcing a luge-oriented iPad PRODUCT.

Speaker 44121.44s - 4122.5s

It's very weird.

Speaker 34122.5s - 4125.04s

It's a huge, like, boogie board-sized iPad.

Speaker 64125.04s - 4127.26s

It's like a cursive capital S, so it's like weird.

Speaker 34128.06s - 4129.96s

And so, like, in context, it looks like a lowercase G.

Speaker 64130.62s - 4131.1s

Very good.

Speaker 34131.32s - 4131.92s

It's pretty good.

Speaker 64132.96s - 4135.9s

It feels like we're going to get an OLED iPad PRODUCT, right?

Speaker 34135.94s - 4136.56s

That's the rumor.

Speaker 44136.8s - 4138.94s

It feels like they'll just chip bump everything else.

Speaker 64139.34s - 4141.76s

I'm trying very hard not to buy an OLED iPad PRODUCT.

Speaker 04142.46s - 4143.32s

But you're going to.

Speaker 34144.6s - 4145.02s

Why?

Speaker 74145.28s - 4146.08s

Like, I don't use the one I have.

Speaker 34146.18s - 4147.32s

So that I'm not the only one.

Speaker 74147.44s - 4149.62s

Like, I need other people making bad...

Speaker 34149.62s - 4162.16s

We're going to do a group buy. We're going to call Tim Cook PERSON, and we're like, we get a group rate on ill-conceived iPads PRODUCT. It just feels like this, what they actually need to do is announce to do software for the iPad PRODUCT. Not new hardware.

Speaker 64162.26s - 4171.26s

There were a bunch of people talking about this that I really enjoyed that was like, after this came out, everybody was like, relax. The real iPad event is WWDC in June. Like this doesn't matter.

Speaker 04171.52s - 4177.9s

And I think that's probably true. Like, the strangest thing about the iPad PRODUCT is the hardware has been really good for a really long time.

Speaker 64178.98s - 4193.14s

I would say, other than please move the camera from the bad spot to the good spot, I have very few issues with the iPad PRODUCT's hardware and have not had issues for a long time. I have a million issues with what it's like to actually use the damn thing.

Speaker 74193.5s - 4203.28s

That's why I'm kind of curious about, one of the big rumors is that they're going to do a new magic keyboard that's like aluminum or something. It's more like just a laptop case.

Speaker 64204.1s - 4206.06s

Yeah, with a bigger track pad. That would be cool.

Speaker 74206.36s - 4209.02s

David, I'm pointing out the 10th-gen iPad PRODUCT, they move the camera.

Speaker 34209.3s - 4212.7s

I know, but they haven't on the other ones. Move it on all the other places.

Speaker 64212.9s - 4215.88s

They're going to probably do it on the pro in the air this time around.

Speaker 74216.04s - 4218.86s

At some point, they have to admit that the pro is just a weird laptop.

Speaker 64219.62s - 4221.18s

Yeah. Maybe this is the time.

Speaker 74221.18s - 4225.48s

Like, I've been using my ancient now 11-inch iPad Pro PRODUCT is like a tablet.

Speaker 34225.72s - 4241.44s

Like this is dumb. Like it's just a laptop all the time. I want to use it as tablet. Boy, do I want to read stereo review in PDF form on my iPad PRODUCT as God intended. But it's just like the thing, it just like yearns to be in its laptop.

Speaker 64241.44s - 4250.96s

Yeah, you're also, I've noticed you started sending a lot of Apple News Plus PRODUCT links around, which makes me think you are becoming more of an iPad PRODUCT user. I'm just a rumor now.

Speaker 34251.04s - 4251.52s

I'm a dad.

Speaker 64251.68s - 4252.5s

I live in the suburbs.

Speaker 34253.62s - 4324.32s

I sold my truck. I haven't sold the truck yet. It's hard breaking to think about selling my stupid truck. This is just me trying to not use Twitter and Wall Street Journal and Condonast ORG publications are Apple News Plus PRODUCT. I got suckered in the deal.Great. Fine. Right. But do I love it? Do I think Apple News ORG? I'm not going to pass any judgments in Apple News Plus PRODUCT.I'm just going to ask anybody who has the product, go and look at the list of trending stories and be like, who do we think this audience is? You just make that distinction all in your... I'm not going to pass any judgment. But I'm like, they're not getting younger, is it what I would say? It doesn't appear that they're getting younger with time.But anyway, yeah, I'm trying to use the iPad PRODUCT as a consumption device. And the iPad Pro PRODUCT in particular, it kind of yearns to be in the keyboard case. And I hope they just go for it. We have a weird mini laptop. It's fine, you know, but the software has to change.So that's coming very soon, May 7th, a couple weeks from now. The Rayban meta smart glasses got a big update. They have multimodal AI now. They announce some new colors, and it's in various three designs that they have.I feel like I'm about to buy one of these. You should.

Speaker 04324.64s - 4332.02s

A meta also announced that it's making headsets with other people, an attempt to make sort of QuestOS the open VR headset,

Speaker 34332.14s - 4338.18s

which Zuckerberg PERSON has talked about a lot. They're going to make an Xbox VR PRODUCT headset. It's a limited edition meta-Quest PRODUCT.

Speaker 04338.7s - 4340.12s

So you can see Zuckerberg PERSON is like,

Speaker 74340.16s - 4359.92s

where are going to be the Android of VR? Apple ORG's doing whatever it's doing over here. Can we call out the fact that it is so funny to watch Microsoft ORG go from being like, we're going to be the Android of you are. We're going to Apple's doing whatever it's doing over here. Can we call out the fact that it is so funny to watch Microsoft go from being like, we're going to create the VR head, like the VR space. We're going to do it all mixed reality. We're going to own this place to we're going to do a rebranded meta quest three.

Speaker 34361.12s - 4368.08s

I mean, if you're Microsoft and you're out there being like the future is Xbox PRODUCT game streaming, you might as well let them have it and run.

Speaker 64368.7s - 4375.58s

The Quest is basically like an Android PRODUCT phone right on your face. Yeah, take the free ads. I mean, and the way they described it is so funny.

Speaker 34375.58s - 4380.96s

It's like it's a Quest 3 inspired by Xbox PRODUCT or something, which just makes me think

Speaker 74380.96s - 4393.44s

like somebody at Microsoft sent over the hex codes for the Xbox PRODUCT green, and we're, like, do whatever you want. Leave us alone. I hope it is, like, just huge. I hope it is so chunky, like, the original Xbox PRODUCT.

Speaker 64393.44s - 4395.32s

It's just a full-on, like, master-sheet helmet.

Speaker 34395.32s - 4396.28s

I hope it's, like, an OG Xbox PRODUCT controller.

Speaker 64396.72s - 4397.2s

That'd be so.

Speaker 34397.38s - 4406.02s

Yeah, just over the top. So the OS, the QuestOS PRODUCT is being rebranded, I guess, to Meta Horizon OS PRODUCT, which is just a lot of words.

Speaker 64406.94s - 4407.84s

Yeah, it's weird.

Speaker 34407.96s - 4411.28s

There was like Horizon Worlds, and then there was Horizon Workrooms PRODUCT.

Speaker 64411.56s - 4420.36s

So that was kind of always going to be their thing, but now they're trying to make it even bigger. I will say Horizon PRODUCT, great name for an operating system. Great job.

Speaker 34421.1s - 4446.46s

The names are insane. It's just a lot of words. So Horizon OS PRODUCT runs on the Quest hardware, and Xbox is making it Xbox-inspired. It names are insane. It's just a lot of words. So Horizon OS runs on the Quest hardware and Xbox PRODUCT is making it Xbox inspired. That's a lot. Good news, though, more companies that are known for their good names will be participating in this ecosystem, including Asuse ORG's Republic of Gamers. Very excited for the names to come from them. Lenovo ORG will make something.That will be... It'll have Legion PRODUCT in it somewhere.

Speaker 74446.76s - 4447.88s

A word salad.

Speaker 34448.16s - 4448.24s

Yep.

Speaker 64448.28s - 4451.86s

The Lenovo Legion Quest Flip 13 PRODUCT. Yep.

Speaker 34452.06s - 4470.9s

And then all of these are going to run on Qualcomm ORG chips. Qualcomm ORG also well known for stretching the boundaries of the Snapchat ORG and beyond all human recognition. So that's interesting. We'll see how that goes. Right there.The players, they have the momentum. The Quest 3 itself got an update where the pass-through videos of higher quality and

Speaker 04470.9s - 4472.16s

looks better when you look at phones.

Speaker 34472.94s - 4489.68s

There's momentum over there. I want to come back to actually the Rayban PRODUCT glasses, which are a hit. Like they feel like a quiet hit. I know a lot of people who have them, our friend Joanna Stern PERSON, says she doesn't travel or go on field video shoots without them anymore. Wow. They're really good. I've got a pair.

Speaker 74489.86s - 4503.84s

I should wear mine more. I'm legit thinking about going and getting prescription lenses put in it because I always have to put my contacts in. It's like that friction's too much. But every time I wear, I'm like, why don't I wear my contacts more often? These like are awesome. They're cheap. They're

Speaker 34503.84s - 4515.4s

300 bucks. I've got a friend who, in the pandemic, she just became one of those people who doesn't live anywhere. She's just like, literally last week. She's like, I'm working from a boat. And I was like, I hate you. You seem great.All of her photos are from the Meta Quest PRODUCT now.

Speaker 64515.4s - 4562.84s

And the way is the thing meta got really right was it went the correct direction in terms of saying, like, we're going to pick a very small number of things for this device to do and it's going to do them pretty well and then we're going to slowly add things that it can do like it when it started it was like okay it's a pretty good speaker system if you like want to listen to music or podcast or whatever that's mostly what i use it for it's become like when i'm out on a walk or whatever i wear it instead i wear the glasses insteadof headphones now which which is awesome. Pretty good camera. People really like taking photos and videos that way. And now they're adding on. They're like, okay, now we can do, they had the, you could like ask meta-AI questions, but now they're adding the multimodal stuff.And so they're like, they're sequencing this stuff really smartly instead of like promising

Speaker 04562.84s - 4569.76s

the world from the very beginning and then not meeting people's expectations which I think is really the key these are better than people

Speaker 64569.76s - 4576.66s

expected them to be which is so so so so rare in this moment with hardware yeah um and again the first

Speaker 34576.66s - 4579.52s

thing they just had to be with some nice looking ray bands yeah it's like all right you get a pair

Speaker 64579.52s - 4583.12s

wayfarers you get these other two designs like people just like those designs whether or not the

Speaker 34583.12s - 4585.46s

battery lasts the camera works is like oh no they're, they're just a pay our wayfarers.

Speaker 64585.5s - 4586.2s

Like maybe it'll be cool.

Speaker 34586.28s - 4587.44s

And now they're setting all this cool stuff.

Speaker 64587.5s - 4591.96s

Well, it's like that old Mitch Headberg PERSON joke, right? That like when an escalator, an escalator doesn't break, it just becomes stairs.

Speaker 34592.16s - 4606.12s

Like, that's these glasses, right? Like, the worst case scenario is you just have a nice pair of sunglasses. Yeah. And honestly, 300 bucks for a pair of ribands is like a little bit of a premium, but it's not crazy. No.And now the multimodal AI, you can do the thing. What am I looking at? It tells you, right?

Speaker 44606.38s - 4610.7s

That's the big trick. That's the, it's emerging as the party trick of these AI devices.

Speaker 64611.06s - 4622.06s

And it's as messy as anything else. Like, V-Song PRODUCT did a bunch of testing with it and it was like hilariously wrong about cars and all this stuff. And it's always like all these systems. It's very confident and just lies to your face.

Speaker 34622.4s - 4641.64s

I, actually, I'm, I'm starting to be of the mind that we need to push back strongly against calling any of this AI. We just need to call them language models because they just make up words. There's no intelligence artificial or otherwise happening here. It's going to be a hard fight. I don't think we're going to, I'm not going to win that fight. There's a lot of fights of won.I'm not going to win that fight.

Speaker 44641.64s - 4647.4s

But the conflation of can you talk with Are You Smart WORK_OF_ART is in a real weird moment on the internet right now.

Speaker 34647.88s - 4675.14s

Turns out, I talk, maybe less smart you are. I talk a lot. I'm not trying to burn anybody. Just putting that out there. Fascinating to me, though, just add all this up, right? You got meta doing the sort of open stuff with Lenovo ORG and all these other companies.You've got the glasses, which are sort of a sneaky hit that people like next to, okay, analyst reports, Vision Pro Demand is suffering, right? And it's like, did Apple ORG just get outgun

Speaker 74675.14s - 4681.4s

by a pair of raybans? Yes. Yes. That's crazy. It's nuts. It's not crazy, though. It was a

Speaker 34681.4s - 4686.96s

$3,500 bet against a $300 bet. I don't even think it's that. I think Apple ORG just miscalculated.

Speaker 64686.96s - 4719.02s

Like I, the longer I use these devices, the more I can't believe Apple ORG didn't make the smart glasses. Like in the thing that Apple ORG has traditionally done, which is like build a thing and then build the more complicated thing and then build the more complicated. Like Apple ORG is actually very good at laddering that stuff up over time. And in this case, just way overshot. It was like, it was like building four generations too soon and trying to convince peopleto buy it. And what if they had just built like the iPod PRODUCT version of it, which is just like a nice thing

Speaker 04719.02s - 4723.24s

for listening to music and talking to an assistant, people would have gone nuts for it.

Speaker 44723.34s - 4728.34s

And it is like, it continues to blow my mind that Apple ORG just, I think, picked wrong.

Speaker 04728.52s - 4729.28s

They could still do it.

Speaker 74729.32s - 4732s

We could still get the Apple ORG vision air.

Speaker 64732.06s - 4732.8s

Oh, I'm sure we will.

Speaker 74732.98s - 4752.68s

I'm sure that's where it's headed. But like, what the humane folks told me is they were like, okay, well, when we built this, we decided to build the hardest thing first, based on the idea that then it's much easier to sort of ratchet our ambition down and sell cheaper, simpler versions of the thing thing but it turns out if you blow theexpensive one you don't get the chance to do the next things and i think apple has kind of dug itself

Speaker 04752.68s - 4765.54s

a whole here by so aggressively overshooting i also like all these supply chain numbers should be taken with like a giant heap of salt all the time but i will say anecdotally nobody talks about the vision Pro anymore.

Speaker 34765.74s - 4766s

Yeah.

Speaker 64766.88s - 4767.44s

It has totally faded.

Speaker 34768.76s - 4815.22s

I spend a lot of time looking in the subreddit, and it is a lot of people are like, what are we using this thing for? You know, and then there's like, one app comes out and it's a hit and people really like it,but it's a little dire in there. I'm just going to say I was right in the review. Yep. It's putting that out there. It took a lot of heat for that one. It's better out here.Yeah, it's better. Right. The question is like, is it worth putting it on? And there isn't anything that makes it worth putting on. There's a few things sometimes. But even Mark German in his newsletter where he was talking about some of hisreal. He's like, I'm wearing this thing less and less. Like, it's lonely. Like, he's like, I want to watch basketball alone. I think it's weird. It's just like a weird moment in hardware.Yeah. Where the big, expensive stuff didn't go, and the sort of cheap stuff that's making small promises is gaining a new kind of momentum.I think I'm going to buy them. I don't know why. I have too many glasses. I lose them.

Speaker 64815.52s - 4816.9s

I have a rule to not buy glasses

Speaker 44816.9s - 4817.78s

that are more than 50 bucks,

Speaker 64817.84s - 4828.14s

not buy sunglasses and more than 50 bucks, because they're gone. That's good. I might as just flush the $50 down the toilet. You know what I mean? But there's a part of it's like,what if? The goodness is these, these ones are very heavy.

Speaker 74829.34s - 4831.28s

So it will be hard to lose them.

Speaker 34831.62s - 4834.58s

And the charging case is really nice.

Speaker 74835.5s - 4839.26s

So you're going to be like, oh, I can't lose my charging case because it's so nice.

Speaker 34839.32s - 4840.74s

And then you'll never lose your glasses.

Speaker 74841.04s - 4842.02s

Alex PERSON, you've never under us.

Speaker 64842.36s - 4845.56s

I'm just filled with optimism today.

Speaker 74845.84s - 4846.9s

Just all optimism.

Speaker 34847.14s - 4847.32s

All right.

Speaker 74847.36s - 4847.88s

We're going to take a break.

Speaker 34847.94s - 4854.76s

I'm going to look on the meta website and see, and see if I convince myself to those $300. We're going to come back. We've got to talk about Tesla ORG and then we've got a lightning around. Then we're going to get out of here. We'll be right back.

Speaker 14859.04s - 4919.76s

Most weight loss programs focus on restriction and inflexible routine, which is why most diets fail. But Noom ORG isn't a diet. It's a weight management program that uses psychology and biology to help you develop healthy, sustainable habits. Noom believes that weight loss starts with the brain, and their daily lessons are tailored to help users understand the science behind food cravings and eating choices. Whether you want to lose weight, increase physical activity, meet a health goal, or simply change the way you think about food. Noom ORG can help you build healthy habits while still enjoying yourfavorite foods. Stay focused on what's important to you with Noom ORG's psychology and biology-based approach. Sign up for your trial today at Noom.com and check out Noom's first ever cookbook, the Noom Kitchen, for 100 healthy and delicious recipes to promote better living, available to buy now wherever books are sold. Hi, everyone.

Speaker 04920.08s - 4984.6s

I'm Bray Brown, and this is Unlocking Us WORK_OF_ART. In this podcast, we'll explore ideas, stories, experiences, research, books, films, music, anything that reflects the universal experiences of being human, from the bravest moments to our most broken-hearted moments. Some episodes will be conversations with the people who are teaching me, challenging me, confusing me, maybe ticking me off a little bit,and some days I'll just talk directly to you about what I'm learning and how it's changing the way I think and feel. The first episodes are out now. We're going to do three or four parts series every quarter, so about 12 to 15 episodes a year. Unlocking us will always drop on Wednesdays. And now you can find me wherever you normally listen to your podcasts. You can get new episodes as soon as they are published by following Unlocking us on your favorite podcast app. And as always, stay awkward, brave, and kind.Once upon a time in America GPE, there was no such thing as all you can eat shrimp, and then the world

Speaker 84984.6s - 4985.16s

changed. Today, shrimp then the world changed.

Speaker 94985.34s - 4993.76s

Today, shrimp is the most popular, the most consumed seafood in America GPE. The endless shrimp fiesta is an American NORP institution.

Speaker 84994.06s - 5003.96s

But that shrimp fiesta comes at a steep price. Here at Gastropod ORG, we found out that hidden behind the delicious shrimp on your plate is environmental disaster and modern day slavery.

Speaker 95003.96s - 5023.58s

So can you have your shrimp and a clear conscience too? Actually, yes. And we've got the secret to help you unlock true lifelong shrimp happiness. Listen to the latest episode of Gastropod ORG wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, we're back.

Speaker 35023.94s - 5030.22s

We have to talk about Tesla ORG. Tesla had earnings, Andy Hawkins PERSON headline. For the preview of earnings was Tesla ORG is in its flop era, which is a great headline.

Speaker 05030.66s - 5033.88s

Just to recap, Tesla has laid off more than 10% of its workforce.

Speaker 45034s - 5035.28s

Like 14,000 people.

Speaker 05035.74s - 5040.76s

A bunch of executives are leaving, including the guy who was in charge of the Power Train and Energy Division ORG.

Speaker 35041.42s - 5072.42s

And then the head of policy, who's the guy who gets autonomy, like, approved. Also gone. A lot going on with Tesla ORG. There's a rumor that they're going to cancel the cheap EV and then they kind of said they weren't going to cancel it. But it also sounds like what they're really going to do is make the model Y PRODUCT cheaper. They've recalled all 3,800 cyber trucks, 3,8708 cyber trucks.But they talked. Elon said Optimus PRODUCT would be a fully sentient robot that would, quote, expand the world economy infinitely.

Speaker 65072.94s - 5073.58s

Sick.

Speaker 35073.84s - 5075.26s

They'll be selling that at the end of next year.

Speaker 65075.38s - 5076.38s

Yeah. Sure.

Speaker 35076.66s - 5078.26s

So a classic Elon PERSON bump there.

Speaker 65078.34s - 5085.02s

I think he even said in that sentence, I think he said, but I'm just guessing. It's like, all right. Yeah. Great investor call. There's's like, all right. Yeah.

Speaker 35085.78s - 5086.8s

Great investor call.

Speaker 65087.2s - 5088.72s

There's a new model three performance.

Speaker 35089.64s - 5089.98s

Great.

Speaker 65090.3s - 5091.72s

But they don't have as new cars.

Speaker 35092.36s - 5164.94s

There's not really a plan to have new cars. They're going to announce some Robotaxy plan on August 8th. And then there's this thing that they've been talking about, which he brought up again on the earnings call today, which I just want to talk about for five seconds, because it is bonkers to me. He was talking about how many H-100s Tesla ORG has. He went on this very funny aside about how he doesn't like calling them GPUs because they don't have to any graphics,but whatever. It's a word. You can hear the investors being like, what? And then he got to, we have all these H-100s, and we are doing inference, AI inference more efficiently because we had to learn how to do it in the car, which is constrained. Great. That makes sense. It's a good argument. When I can measure it, whether that makes sense. And then he's like, we've got this like AWS ORG play it in the car, which is constrained. Great. That makes sense. It's a good argument. You can measure it. Well, that makes sense. And then he's like, we've got this like AWS play, which they've hinted at before,but he was like, what we're going to do is run it on all the Teslas PRODUCT that are just sitting around. So quote, if you can imagine in the future, perhaps there's a fleet of 100 million Teslas PRODUCT. And on average, they've gotten like maybe a kilowatt of inference compute. That's 100 gigawatts of inference compute distributed all around the world. It's pretty hard to put together 100 gigawatts of AI compute.So, and perhaps maybe instead of using the car 10 hours a week, we use it 50 hours a week while it's sitting there. That leaves over 100 hours a week where the car inference computer can be doing something else, and it seems like it would be a waste to not use it. My man is describing SETI at home for Tesla ORG. Yeah.

Speaker 75165.56s - 5168.48s

What do those terms of service look like? Right.

Speaker 35168.52s - 5191.26s

It's just like, do you want to run compute models on your car while just like sitting in the driveway? You're a car, which, by the way, famously runs on electricity. Uh-huh. Like, where's that electricity? Where's that power building from? Are you going to get it cheaper?You buy a car and now Elon PERSON can use it to do whatever inference to run, whatever Robotaxy PRODUCT fleet that he thinks he's going to need to run it. Also, I don't know if you know about AWS. They like knowing where the computers are.

Speaker 65192.58s - 5198.94s

And typically those computers are not driving somewhere between 20 and 100 miles an hour while they're being used.

Speaker 35198.94s - 5209.98s

Yeah, I've interviewed the C of AWS ORG. I would say a core assumption of that conversation was that he knew where the servers were. And they were not ever at risk of crashing into other servers.

Speaker 65210.62s - 5217.02s

This feels like such a classic Elon Musk thing. Because even as you were reading that, it's like, okay, this sort of makes sense.

Speaker 35217.38s - 5226.46s

Like, big fleet, lots of compute sitting around. What if we use the compute? And then it's like, you raise your hand and you go like, how is any of that going to work? And it's like, ah, don't worry about that.

Speaker 65227.96s - 5230.52s

He's doing it at the same time that, like,

Speaker 75230.86s - 5237.74s

Chevy ORG is getting a lot of flack because they've been using their computers to spy on people and report it to their insurance companies.

Speaker 35238.04s - 5276.76s

Like, maybe not the time to be like, yeah, you've got a computer in there and I want to use it. Yeah, it's like, it's mine now. Yeah. I just think this is the one where it's like, what Elon is searching for is arguments that Tesla ORG will have massive margins, software company style margins instead of car company margins. And the thing that's hammering Tesla ORG right now is they have absolutely car company margins again because it dropped the price so much.And they don't have any new cars. So the competition is here. And you can see the sales fell, like 55%. Like they're just not doing it anymore. And so he's concocting these arguments where a sentient optimist robot will expand the world economy by infinity. That's a pretty

Speaker 45276.76s - 5281.36s

good margin. It's good. I mean, you know, more power to you, if you pull that off. And then he's like,

Speaker 65281.36s - 5288.98s

and I'm going to build this like distributed data center. So now I'm running AWS. instead of having to build a data center in Texas GPE or wherever he might need to build it.

Speaker 35288.98s - 5304.1s

And it's like this is the truth is outing here, right? Like it is very hard to get from here to I'm running a distributed AI supercomputer and every Tesla ORG in the world. It's like very hard.

Speaker 75304.7s - 5315.6s

It kind of feels a little like a Peloton PRODUCT moment for him. You know, where Peloton PRODUCT, everybody got a Peloton because they wanted one. And it feels like maybe everyone who wanted the Tesla ORG got one.

Speaker 35315.96s - 5348s

Well, let me just ask you this question about this distributed inference computer. What happens at Rush Hour? Yeah. Right? The total capacity of the computer is just like plummetz. Like hour by hour.Like it's always five o'clock somewhere. Like every hour, computer is just like plummetz. Like hour by hour. Like it's always five o'clock somewhere. Like every hour, there's just like huge dip in capacity. Like it starts coming back online at 7 p.m. Like literally the sun sets on Tesla's compute capacity across the United States every single day. Like it's very hard to pull this through.I think that Tesla ORG is in a like fascinating moment. I am not sure it five years from now. It looks anything like this through. I think Tesla is in a fascinating moment. I am not sure it five years now

Speaker 65348s - 5365.4s

it looks anything like this company. Yeah, it seems hard to imagine. I mean, I think this company has already gone through so many weirder iterations than anybody would have expected and continues to sort of chug along. Like Tesla ORG feels very much like a cockroach at this point that sort of nothing could

Speaker 75365.4s - 5369.26s

happen to Tesla ORG that would surprise me. And also, it will be the last company that exists on

Speaker 35369.26s - 5375.66s

planet Earth LOC. Oh, I disagree. But, like, it feels like it's going to crap.

Speaker 75377.1s - 5381.62s

Yeah, even like a bunch of Tesla ORG fans are like, I don't know about this anymore. Well, that's,

Speaker 35381.7s - 5390.38s

I mean, that's one of the big questions to me. I was talking about this with Andy Hawkins yesterday, like, this question of kind of the Elon Musk effect that

Speaker 65390.38s - 5418.4s

the people who are predisposed to want Tesla ORG's for a lot of the reasons that Tesla promotes them being good for the world and all that are also people who are likely to not be psyched about Elon Musk's PERSON shenanigans, particularly as he runs X. And so trying to figure out how to quantify how much of this is about the challenges in the EV market, how much this is about plug-in hybrids, which I thought was a really interesting thing that Musk said during the earnings call.

Speaker 05418.48s - 5421.72s

He blamed a lot of the struggle on the rise in plug-in hybrids.

Speaker 85422.5s - 5427.76s

And how much of this is just people voting with their dollars and voting against

Speaker 05427.76s - 5429.48s

Elon Musk is really hard to know.

Speaker 65429.56s - 5433.76s

And I think it's going to be super obvious in retrospect. And I'm very curious how it's going to shake out.

Speaker 75434.1s - 5465.1s

There's also the fact that if you're just going to buy a car and you're going out in the world and you're like, I'm going to buy a car and you don't buy a car based on id, then you go and you look and you say, okay, Tesla ORG's have really bad reliability. They're really hard to repair. They're really hard to just get an appointment, and oftentimes that appointment's horrible. The build quality is crap to the point that, like, they keep having to do recalls on the cyber truck. Like, those are all just signs of a badly runcompany. And I think this company had a lot of advantage

Speaker 45465.1s - 5470.68s

because it was first mover. And Elon Musk is an incredible salesman. But now like the bloom is off

Speaker 75470.68s - 5475.32s

that rose. Twitter X PRODUCT, whatever you want to call it, ripped that right off. And now it's like,

Speaker 45475.4s - 5478.96s

okay, we see that this guy is just a really good salesman and he pulls it all out of his butt.

Speaker 75479.2s - 5484.04s

And he is not some genius. And actually, he's not running a very good company because he's running 12

Speaker 05484.04s - 5487.34s

at once. And no one can do that, even Elon Musk.

Speaker 35487.72s - 5491.06s

Alex is Alex Kranz PERSON at the verge with a K. Yeah. Just email that.

Speaker 75491.72s - 5494.06s

Hit me up. I'm doing you a favorite. I'm here to debate you.

Speaker 35494.7s - 5499.9s

Debate Alex with a K. Please. It's going to be great. Honeypotting Tesla ORG trolls.

Speaker 75501.44s - 5505.04s

I don't think you're wrong. I just think the fundamentals is the auto business.

Speaker 35505.54s - 5510.76s

He has to not be a car company. And the thing that is happening is it's getting sucked into being a car company.

Speaker 65510.76s - 5511.4s

Because it is one.

Speaker 35512.16s - 5513.38s

Because it is one.

Speaker 65513.38s - 5516.46s

Yeah, because it is one. Yeah. Because it is one. Yeah. And the blaming the hybrid saying is super funny to me.Like, yes, I own a hybrid.

Speaker 35516.56s - 5524.84s

But like, you're basically telling your customers that they're wrong. Right? And how do you get across, how do you get past the market making a decision? I don't know, regulate the market.

Speaker 45525.64s - 5529.34s

Joe Biden PERSON will you make hybrids illegal is like kind of the only answer to that. Or you can

Speaker 35529.34s - 5532.56s

yell at everyone that they're wrong. And like yelling at the market that it's wrong,

Speaker 45532.6s - 5536.88s

and like not great. That always famously works for everyone who does it.

Speaker 35537.2s - 5539.42s

This is famously why Betamax ORG beat VHS.

Speaker 75539.8s - 5541.4s

Yeah. Everyone knows it.

Speaker 35541.7s - 5547.2s

I don't think hybrid. I think hybrids, everyone I know as hybrid knows it's like some short-term solution to the infrastructure not being there.

Speaker 75547.32s - 5549.72s

And everyone prefers to drive around on the battery.

Speaker 35550.4s - 5565.22s

My dad just recently bought a Prius after spending months looking for an EV because he just like they just couldn't find one that made sense and decided that in their lives at this point like the next car should be an electric car.

Speaker 75565.46s - 5566.7s

The car right now should not be.

Speaker 35566.76s - 5568.56s

And I think a lot of people are making that decision.

Speaker 65569.58s - 5569.7s

Yeah.

Speaker 35569.86s - 5572.22s

Also, new Prius PRODUCT, it doesn't look like an angry robot anymore.

Speaker 65572.26s - 5573.44s

No, it's kind of great.

Speaker 35574.1s - 5574.88s

It kind of looks good.

Speaker 65574.88s - 5574.94s

Yeah.

Speaker 35576.14s - 5576.76s

We'll see.

Speaker 65576.98s - 5577.2s

All right.

Speaker 35577.66s - 5578.62s

Lightning round.

Speaker 65578.88s - 5635.44s

What you got, David PERSON? So while we're talking about Apple TV Plus PRODUCT, soon to be augmented by the purchase of TikTok ORG, there was a report this week that Apple, while we're talking about Apple TV Plus, soon to be augmented by the purchase of TikTok ORG, there was a report this week that Apple has been negotiating with FIFA ORG, which is the governing body of soccer around the world,to do a new global tournament exclusively on Apple TV Plus PRODUCT. I find this fascinating for a bunch of reasons. One, Apple ORG is increasingly deep into the sports world. They have this thing with Major League Soccer ORG that's going very well, it seems, in part because, you know, Lionel Messi decided to play for the MLS ORG. But the numbers that have been thrown around are upwards of a billion dollars from Apple to be the one to stream this tournament, which is like, we've spent a lot of time talking about Apple TV Plus PRODUCT as kind of a,somewhere between sort of a lark and a side project, that it was never going to be really material to Apple ORG.

Speaker 05635.56s - 5665.34s

It was just kind of a thing it did on the side in order to sell more subscriptions to ICloud, right? Like, that was always the play. This seems to me to be the sort of thing that you only do if you're actually serious about turning this into a real thing. And Apple ORG is just further and further and further into sports in a way that I continue to find surprising and sort of fascinating.And they want to invent a completely new thing with some of the biggest soccer clubs in the world, which would be huge and is immediately the kind of thing

Speaker 65665.34s - 5688.26s

that would draw potentially millions of new people to Apple TV Plus PRODUCT. But this is like, there's no indication. I think it was a New York Times ORG story that first recorded this, that this is like a done deal. But they want to do it next summer, which means like this is a big thing that could happen very quickly. And like, I don't know, Apple TV Plus PRODUCT just continues to be a bigger thing than I think I've given it credit for.

Speaker 75688.26s - 5711.18s

I think it kind of makes sense though right now for Apple to do it because Hollywood GPE is in a state of flux, right? Like streaming is completely changing the game there. Everybody's trying to figure out where the revenue streams are. And the tech companies are kind of leading their forefront. The tech companies are running Hollywood GPE in a way they haven't are. And the tech companies are kind of leading their forefront. The tech companies are running Hollywood in a way they haven't previously. And Apple ORG is doing it really, really well.

Speaker 05711.18s - 5716.76s

It's a smaller play than everybody else, but it's doing it intelligently. And it's like, yeah, this

Speaker 75716.76s - 5721.94s

makes sense for them to go in and just like take a couple of streaming services out. Yeah.

Speaker 45722.02s - 5728.52s

Just body a few with money and then snap up the dregs of that later, right?

Speaker 75728.58s - 5730.26s

Like make a deal with Skydance ORG or whatever.

Speaker 65730.58s - 5738.92s

But if that's the play, Apple ORG could just walk into the offices of any streaming service it wanted to and just write a check for its valuation and then something.

Speaker 75738.92s - 5744.64s

Yeah, but they don't want to do that. They want cheap licenses and stuff like that. That's what runs these services.

Speaker 65744.9s - 5763.86s

But this is what I'm saying. a billion dollars to create a new soccer tournament is not that thing. Like the MLS ORG thing I understood, that's a relatively small, relatively safe bet and they got to essentially take over that whole project. This is a much, this is like negotiating for NFL rights, which Apple ORG like famously has not won because it wants.

Speaker 05763.86s - 5768.34s

Yeah, but it wanted, what has been reported is that it wanted, like, complete control over

Speaker 35768.34s - 5768.7s

this thing.

Speaker 75768.78s - 5775.34s

And you're not getting that from the NFL and you're not getting it from FIFA ORG and they're still willing to throw billions of dollars at it. It's fascinating. But this would drive subscriptions.

Speaker 35775.58s - 5787.96s

Yeah. For shorts is sticky. Yeah. Eddie Hughes PERSON smart. He's also a huge sports fan. Yeah, he is.And he knows sports are the stickiest thing. We'll see. I think Apple ORG has to get good at broadcasting sports. Yeah.

Speaker 75788.02s - 5789.64s

They're not great at it right now.

Speaker 35789.74s - 5791.88s

So the more they get into it, the more they have to come.

Speaker 75792.52s - 5795.52s

Does Tim Cook want to sit in Congress ORG and talk about contact moderation?

Speaker 35795.92s - 5802.18s

I don't know. Does Tim Cook PERSON want to sit in front of a bunch of soccer fans and talk about penalties? Like, I don't know about that either.

Speaker 75802.18s - 5805.26s

But does Tim Cook want to go, like, sit in a box at the World Cup EVENT?

Speaker 45805.36s - 5806.26s

Like, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 65807.18s - 5807.58s

That's true.

Speaker 35807.86s - 5808.08s

All right.

Speaker 65808.26s - 5808.78s

Cranz PERSON, what you got?

Speaker 35810.4s - 5810.82s

Qualcomm ORG.

Speaker 65811.32s - 5812.14s

They're back, baby.

Speaker 35812.34s - 5812.78s

We'll see.

Speaker 75813.4s - 5815.04s

We say that every once in a while.

Speaker 35815.36s - 5816.84s

Just immediately undercut.

Speaker 75816.84s - 5817.5s

Just immediate.

Speaker 35817.72s - 5822.28s

Yeah, so Qualcomm ORG has announced, they had previously announced some new processors,

Speaker 45822.88s - 5837.84s

and these are their kind of responses to the x86 PRODUCT processors from Intel and AMD. This is meant to go in Windows machines, meant to compete with Apple ORG. They're saying they're as fast as the M3 PRODUCT and it's going to blow it out of the water.

Speaker 75837.84s - 5846.86s

Joanna Nelius PERSON, our new laptop reviewer went and checked some of them out in some very, very, very, controlled demos. And she was like,

Speaker 65847.34s - 5851.24s

there could be something there. She was seeing it was slower than the M3 PRODUCT in some cases,

Speaker 75851.7s - 5856.72s

faster in others. I mean, if it's even in the ballpark of the M3 PRODUCT, that's a huge deal.

Speaker 65857.3s - 5860.76s

That's a huge deal, right? And I think there's some really interesting stuff, particularly around

Speaker 75860.76s - 5867.52s

architecture. They're not doing the big little core deal that everybody else does where they're like, these are performance cores and these are efficiency cores.

Speaker 65867.78s - 5871.22s

They're like, yeah, these are all performance course because they're just that efficient.

Speaker 45872.38s - 5879.64s

That was me doing a Qualcomm impression, sorry. So it's the the Snapdragon X PRODUCT elite was the ones

Speaker 75879.64s - 5885.74s

previously announced. And now we have the Snapdragon X plus PRODUCT. Oh, good. Which is slower.

Speaker 35887.04s - 5888.26s

Because it's not elite.

Speaker 75888.66s - 5889.94s

They're going to throw a premium in there,

Speaker 35890s - 5891.08s

and no one's going to know what's going on.

Speaker 65891.2s - 5892.32s

Yeah, nobody will know.

Speaker 35892.4s - 5894.78s

I appreciate that when you try to match Apple ORG's

Speaker 75894.78s - 5897.4s

performance, you also try to match Apple ORG's insane

Speaker 65897.4s - 5899.12s

names game. This is good.

Speaker 75899.48s - 5914.74s

And it's all bad. All the names are bad. But we don't know when these are probably going to come this year. We'll probably start seeing them in some Windows devices this year. And I'm really, really curious to see it. Because like if Arm and Windows PRODUCT can work for once, that would be huge.

Speaker 45914.96s - 5919.4s

Yeah. But they famously kind of like screwed it up the last time. And the time before that,

Speaker 75919.4s - 5923.82s

and the time before that. And the time before that. That's why I immediately undercut.

Speaker 65924.42s - 5926.9s

Qualcomm's like back at it again at the Krispy Cream PRODUCT.

Speaker 75927.18s - 5930.36s

The Microsoft event is May 20th or 21st or something,

Speaker 65930.44s - 5944.32s

and they're going to announce new surfaces that we think, by all indications, are going to run these things. So we're going to see this sooner rather than later. But Tom's been reporting about how excited Microsoft ORG is. Qualcomm ORG seems very excited. This could be something.

Speaker 75944.52s - 5945s

Well, we've got Computex come in. That's May 31st. Oh, yeah. My birthday. Hey. Oh, very excited. This could be something. Well, we've got

Speaker 65945s - 5951.42s

Computex come in. That's May 31st. Oh, yeah. It's going to be like laptop explosion here.

Speaker 75951.6s - 5959.6s

That's going to be great. Yeah. So we're going to get a lot of laptops soon. And I suspect a lot of them are going to have these new processors in them. Will these processors be good?

Speaker 35959.72s - 5963.24s

It's a big move away from Intel. There's a lot of laptops with these weird Snapdragon ORG chips in

Speaker 75963.24s - 5975.24s

we'll see. Yeah, well, we'll also have to see because historically the laptop makers don't like to ship the stuff besides Intel ORG to reviewers to check out because they want you to check out

Speaker 35975.24s - 5978s

the thing that people actually buy and that's usually the Intel ORG products.

Speaker 45978.2s - 5980.1s

So it's going to be a fun one.

Speaker 35980.46s - 5984.82s

All right. Mine is very simple. So now it says a new app. It's very good.

Speaker 56010.5s - 6015.12s

On mobile, they've sort of gotten rid of all the tabs, and it's all just widgets. It's cool. They said it's going to be faster. It's coming out May 7th. We'll see if the mobile app is faster. This is not the thing I actually want to talk about. They are getting rid of their desktop apps, which they've had forever on Mac and Windows PRODUCT. And they're going all to web apps, and you can now, because it's web app, you can control your sonos from anywhere, which is interesting. I'm just pointing out that the move to distribute applications on desktop computers to the web instead of in native binaries is like full speed ahead.

Speaker 46015.3s - 6015.98s

Like it's over.

Speaker 56016.66s - 6020.92s

Like, you know, Dylan Field, the CEO Figma ORG was like, why would you distribute an app on

Speaker 36020.92s - 6058.34s

a desktop computer any other way except the web? And like, yep, there's electron and some other stuff where you packaged it up and it looks native and da-da-da-da. But I saw this and I was like, oh, this is just a huge shift in computers that is like reaching a point where it's like no one even talks about it. Like it just assumed that if you're going to make a new app for desktop computers, what you are actually shipping as a web app. Yeah. And the thing I would point to is the Vision Pro PRODUCT, the high end of computers, the cutting edgeof what a computer can be, mounted directly to your face. All of the most interesting apps on the Vision Pro, the Netflix app, the YouTube ORG app, whatever, are just custom web browsers.

Speaker 66058.76s - 6060.26s

Yeah, we really called that, by the way.

Speaker 36060.4s - 6077.66s

I feel like we deserve credit for saying over and over that the only thing that the only thing that might save the Vision Pro PRODUCT is, is web apps. Yeah. That has been absolutely correct. Anyway, I'm excited for the use on this thing because the old app is indeed slow. Wasn't the old app supposed to fix the fact that the app before that was slow and bad?

Speaker 66078.08s - 6081.6s

No, so they, this is like a long story. We had Patrick Spence PERSON on the show, I think, to explain

Speaker 36081.6s - 6087.8s

himself to us when they did this. I know. And they had the old platform, which they now call S1 PRODUCT, which was like ancient.

Speaker 66087.8s - 6091.42s

And they re-architected everything for the future and to support Atmos PRODUCT and all this other

Speaker 36091.42s - 6092.3s

stuff they wanted to do.

Speaker 66093.7s - 6094.84s

And that's called S2 PRODUCT.

Speaker 36095.38s - 6097.14s

So that was just an architecture update.

Speaker 66097.28s - 6099.62s

It was not a, we need to make a really faster update.

Speaker 36099.62s - 6103.22s

So they kept their slow app, but made it work on the new architecture.

Speaker 66103.48s - 6103.64s

Yeah.

Speaker 36103.72s - 6106.18s

There's a lot of arguments about like what the best way to run Sonos is now.

Speaker 66106.3s - 6109.72s

Like, do you want to run Sonos net, which is like a custom 2.4-Gargearge PRODUCT.

Speaker 36109.84s - 6112.06s

He just want to run everything on Wi-Fi, which Sonos ORG says you should do.

Speaker 66112.66s - 6119.8s

Good times in these subredits. I just use Spotify Connect PRODUCT, and it works fine. Yeah, it's fine.

Speaker 36120.2s - 6126.44s

I wish I had a more complicated, interesting idea than that. I never, ever touched the Sonos ORG app, and I'm very happy.

Speaker 76126.64s - 6128.12s

I've used AirPlay for years now.

Speaker 36128.24s - 6128.58s

It's great.

Speaker 66128.66s - 6129.4s

It works just fine.

Speaker 36129.46s - 6151.9s

And you can group things in Airplay. You can group unlike speakers in Airplay, which is very interesting. But I still got a soft soft soft soft for it. All right. We are way over. We've touched on everything from web apps to the future of free speech in America GPE.Busy week. To whatever's going on with Tesla ORG. It's a lot. It was a busy week. And we got more of them coming because we're head first into developer conference season now.Yep.

Speaker 66152.76s - 6153.04s

All right.

Speaker 36153.1s - 6156.8s

I'm going to start a go fund me for this OLED iPad PRODUCT. You can hit me up. That's not true.

Speaker 46159.2s - 6162.18s

Tell Alex all your favorite things about your Tesla ORG if you have one.

Speaker 66162.28s - 6162.94s

She'd love to hear of them.

Speaker 46162.94s - 6163.9s

Oh, we need to say this.

Speaker 36164.1s - 6166.28s

We utterly forgot to say this because we were so bad at this.

Speaker 46166.58s - 6167.86s

We won Webby Awards WORK_OF_ART.

Speaker 36168.34s - 6171.58s

Thank you so much for all the people who voted for us in the People's Choice of the Vergecast.

Speaker 46171.88s - 6175.76s

Thank you, the judges who gave the same award to the Dakota ORG podcast.

Speaker 66176.32s - 6177.56s

We really do appreciate it.

Speaker 36178.08s - 6181.54s

It's very cool that we have been doing the show for as long as we've doing it,

Speaker 46181.84s - 6183.32s

and people still voting for us for these awards.

Speaker 66183.48s - 6184.7s

I truly appreciate it.

Speaker 46185.96s - 6187.54s

Sponsor the Lightning PRODUCT around you degenerates.

Speaker 36187.7s - 6199.32s

All right. It's time. All right, that's it. That's the Vergecast. And that's it for the Vergecast this week.

Speaker 56199.46s - 6219.32s

Hey, we'd love to hear from you. Give us a call at 866 Verge 1-1. The Verge PRODUCT cast is a production of the Verge and Vox Media Podcast Network. Our show is produced by Andrew Marino and Liam James PERSON. That's it. We'll see you next week.Support for this show comes from

Speaker 26219.32s - 6267.26s

Art Beats and Lyrics WORK_OF_ART, a new documentary from Vox Creative along with Jack Daniels, Tennyson PERSON, Honey, and Culp Creative. Directed by Daniels, Tennyson Honey, and Cult Creative ORG. Directed by Bill Horace, Art Beats, and Lyrics WORK_OF_ART showcases how a humble art show has grown into a cultural phenomenon. The film unveils the origin stories of the events founder, Jabari Graham PERSON, and its curator, Dwayne W. Wright, exploring how Atlanta has shaped their individual past while also revealingtheir distinct roles within art, beats, and lyrics. The documentary follows Jabari W. and several of this year's feature artists as they gear up for AB&L's 20th anniversary tour, captivating thousands of fans at each and every show. Stream art, beats, and lyrics now on Hulu ORG. Please drink responsibly.Whiskey specialty, 35% alcohol by volume, Jack Daniels Distillery, Lynchburg, Tennessee GPE. Jack Daniels and Tennessee Honey PRODUCT are registered trademarks. 2024, Jack Daniels ORG, All Rights Reserve.