#324 - Chad Knight

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They were like, yay.

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Yeah, like, why would they let a bunch of convicts go out and do a TV show?

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But that's what I heard.

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I don't know.

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Oh, my gosh.

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And they were so...

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And there was one point where during the show, Hulk Hogan PERSON said some to me, and I'm like, yeah, like, I'm perfect for this challenge.

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My whole job is about running from the cops.

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And the whole crowd was like, yeah!

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This is all these convicts in there.

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All right. We are back, huh? We're all these convicts in there. All right.

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We are back, huh?

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We're back at the Nine Club ORG, everybody.

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Today, we have a very special.

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Special. Special guest, Mr. Chad Knight PERSON is with us. How are you?

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I'm great. Thank you so much for having me.

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Dude, our pleasure. Thank you for coming, dude.

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We appreciate that. We are on an Osiris Storm PRODUCT roll lately. We've had a lot of Osiris Storm riders on. We're psyched. As you should be. Yes. Yes. Yes. For sure. Did the Osir's storm?

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Like, let's just get right into the Osir Storm EVENT real quick. Why not? Did it change a lot of your,

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like, the way you were perceived and did you get more spawned? Like, did it do anything for you?

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Hard to say.

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I think it did, this is something I wanted to get into anyway, a little bit more in-depth

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conversation about like, you know, what was happening all there and how it kind of evolved

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within the industry and perceptions.

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Okay.

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You know what I mean?

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But it definitely opened up a lot of doors in terms of, you know, it was like video

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of the year.

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It was so hyped all these things and tour you went on.

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Yeah, and there were, uh, there was incredible skateboarding in the video.

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You know, there was a lot of stuff that no one, but not like the small stuff you guys

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were just watching over again. Like it's wild, you know, like he there was a lot of stuff that no one never been on. Like the small like stuff you guys were just watching over again.

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Like it's wild, you know, like he's doing some next level stuff that no one's been done before. So being part of that was awesome. But I would just say that it was never lost on me the perception within the industry of us.

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Okay.

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So you knew that there was a perception in the industry of you guys. Yes. What was your feeling of that perception?

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We're really getting into it.

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I didn't know this is going this way, to be honest. You said it this way. Scoot up a little closer to the mic. Get comfortable. Let's get some popcorn. I just, I want to be very carefulto not like disrespect anybody or feel like I'm shitting on anybody or anything because, um, the experience was incredible. You know, like having all my friends, they were being able to be part of something that was skateboard owned with footwear at that point in the process. Introducing me to footwear design and the process of construction types and all that kind of stuff. But it just, it felt a little bit forced to me, I think. And I don't know what it was exactly, but for me, I think, it's like it was authentic. It was purely authentic, but it felt at the same time slightly inauthentic for some reason.And again, it could have just been, that was my perspective on it, because that's how I felt. You know, I felt maybe like a imposter syndrome maybe.

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Weird, because I don't really remember it feeling forced, as you say.

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It almost felt like blingy. Like it was like trying so hard to be like, just like,

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how do you know, just so extravagant and like the shoes were so crazy.

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But like a lot of the skate shoes were all like big at that point, but you guys were taking it the next level, especially with the D3 PRODUCT and everything.

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Yeah.

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But as far as like the team, it didn't seem, it seemed like everybody was friends and it was a whole thing and it was an atmosphere.

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It seemed like a San Diego GPE thing.

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Yeah, it was definitely San Diego GPE.

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It definitely was.

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Yeah.

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But I think that I was on the periphery of that a little bit.

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Like Mayhew, Tyrone, Brian Reed, you know, Mayhew, Tyrone's whole crew with, like, Dave Fry PERSON and all those guys. They were super tight. And we all kind of moved to San Diego around the same time, like Mayhew, Tyrone PERSON, myself.

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You're from Ohio GPE.

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Correct.

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Yeah. Yeah. We all moved out around the same time there. and there were the people who were like, again,

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this is something I learned through watching the show, hearing Mayhew PERSON, with like the difference in terms of aspiration that we had in skateboarding and where we thought we could go with it. Like, I was like, if I turn pro, that would be amazing. You know?

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And then I hear Mayhew's episode, and he's like, you know? And then I hear May he was up a sudden,

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he's like, you know, I thought I was going to be on girl. And I'm just like, man, there was such different expectations for where we were going, you know? So when these guys all met, I feel like the guys that were super, super dedicated and knew what they wanted out of their career, kind of clicked together, you know, and they would go cruise around.

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Right. And then there was just the kind of piles, the ones that just wanted to have fun and party and just

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so I was quickly absorbed by that crew. And so, you know, Mayhew and those guys are living in these apartments and there's 12 of us in a one, or in a three-bedroom house. Okay.

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Just living and just raging.

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So there was a little bit of a disconnect from me and the team, I feel like, you know, and I was super, and I've always really been into, like, to hip hop in that culture. So that was something that was natural to me, but I think that maybe I just tried to force it a little bit too much to try to fit in. Just feel a little bit like I was more part of that community.

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Sure.

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You know, like I wanted to be part of it, but maybe I felt like it was a little bit forced on my end. Did you notice at that point that it was getting big?

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Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I noticed it before I got on the team. Mayhew, it was Mayhew, Tyrone, Gershon, and McNatt PERSON initially. And you could see that, yeah, it was a really good squad.

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And having it be so organically grown at that time in skateboarding was really, I appreciate it.

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And I think it was quickly recognized by other skaters.

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You know, like, that's authentic.

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Right.

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That's from skateboarding.

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So they supported it and quickly, yeah, I saw that it was growing in popularity super quickly.

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And you were how old at this point?

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I was probably 21.

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21, okay.

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I mean, already Maple ORG, turned pro, all that stuff.

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Had you had a shoe by this point, too?

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No, I was riding for like, airwalk and then Dukes PRODUCT for a little bit.

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Okay.

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And then I moved over to Ossarison ORG.

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Got a shoe after about a year of riding with them.

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Okay.

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Oh, wait, so how long were you on Osiris ORG before the video came out?

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Probably about a year. Okay.

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Maybe a little bit longer than that, but, you know, it takes a while to develop a shoe

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anyway.

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For sure. What was the first one called? Did it have a bunch of crazy lines on it? Yeah, it was called the scheme. If I can.

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S.K. Oh, not the other one for S. There was the... No, no.

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Because there was a scheme for the S too. We came up with our own

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apparently. Yeah.

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Which one? Somebody's biting somebody.

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Yeah. There's only so many names out there.

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Because I feel like I had a pair, the only pair of Cyrus PRODUCT I have, I feel like your

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name was, it was one of your shoes. But maybe it had a name to it, though, which confused me.

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So, yeah, it was called that, but it was a, something else I kind of struggled with at that time

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was I was so new to the industry.

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I'd been pro for like four years, you know, like having a signature shoe felt a little premature.

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So what I opted for on my first one was just a designed buy.

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Okay.

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So it was called the scheme but it was designed

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by me i see okay same royalties same all that stuff it was just a designed by okay well you figure

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you didn't you didn't want to have your own signature shoes i don't know i mean at that time

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who had shoes like sal Danny PRODUCT way you know what I mean like it was I i mean we are venturing into a new

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time right here with shoes and everybody having shoes.

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How long did Osiris ORG was it around prior to you getting a shoe?

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Probably two years.

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Okay.

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So I think it started around 98 and I got a shoe around 2000.

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Okay.

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I could be wrong, but it's something close to that.

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Yeah.

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This is your first time learning how to design a shoe?

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Yeah, I knew nothing.

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They gave me some paper with I literally time learning how to design a shoe. Yeah, I knew nothing. They gave me some paper with, I literally think, like, an outline of a shoe.

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And they're like, draw some stuff in there.

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And this is it, right?

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This is what we're looking at?

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No, this is, so this was the third shoe.

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Third shoe.

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That was the graph.

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And then what?

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That was my favorite.

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This one was the same.

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That's that same one.

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Yes.

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This one is the graph.

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Okay.

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I had a pair that was like white with gray and had a bunch of orange up and down lines on it.

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And I think you might have had the Casper's.

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No, did not have the Casper's.

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I've got to sworn.

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I have a photo of me as a kid in him.

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I'm going to get him.

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I'm going to ask them there.

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Shoot them over.

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I'm going to tell you this.

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Geron ORG put this shoe on before we started.

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You look good in these dubs?

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Yeah.

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It's a good shoe. And that was super slim for the time. It looks good in these dubs? Yeah, it's a good shoe.

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And that was super slim for the time.

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It looks big, though.

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Look at this.

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It's a big in my head, right?

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But when you put them on it.

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It didn't look as big when you had it.

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With the shorts on, too.

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You kind of, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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The blue joints.

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I fit into the time, the era.

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If you ripped out the tongue padding a little bit, too, those things really aren't that big.

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For sure.

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I took a nap on these.

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Hello.

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Nice.

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Yeah, but what a, what a time to be, like you said, kind of thrust into this whole thing, right?

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Yeah.

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And it's funny because, like, a lot of people's perception, like, the perception, right?

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At the D3s PRODUCT, like, that was a huge, huge. Even to this day, it's still kind of a debacle, you know?

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Oh, yeah.

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Story about, you know, him coming in late and just, that was his shoe that he got. He, but nothing like that happened, though.

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I would say, out of anything, the chances of that happening to somebody would be me. I probably showed up to the meeting late and got a shoe.

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After the partying, lower cup late.

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Dave was probably up all night for weeks designing his shoe. Right. Yeah. And he designed it off of got a shoe. After the partying, lower cup late. Dave was probably up all night for weeks designing his shoe. Right. Yeah.

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And he designed it off of a hiking shoe

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or something. That's what he said. Right. I think it was a

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Solomon PRODUCT. You see a lot of those

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creek running shoes back in the day with that

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pattern on it. I think that that was

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where you got the inspiration from. I just love

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our industry and I love how the

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game of telephone just kind of spreads

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throughout the whole thing and then you have this narrative that's lasted like 20 or 30 years. Crazy. Yeah. Well, we had no

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TMZ ORG. We had no social media and no way of confirming things, you know, a rumor would get,

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like right then. Exactly. Yeah. A rumor would get out into the ethos and then everybody would just

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eat it up. Oh, yeah. And spin it every which way. What a great story. Yeah. Showed up late.

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I mean, total skateboarder mentality, right?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Very believable story.

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But I love that we have this show and this opportunity to hear from multiple people that that is just not the case.

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He designed his shoe. He brought in a shoe from the horse's mouth also, too, from him.

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Yeah.

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What a wild world

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And I mean

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I think that it's even You know

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I don't I'm very much arm's length From that whole situation What do you mean?

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You didn't make some calls?

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I'm friends with both of them But I know that Dave had designed A shoe called the Fifth

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Prior to that

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Which is very similar design language So you can kind of see that it was evolving there. Okay. I think, I mean, I don't know the details between like, you know, who gets credit and whatnot, but I know Dave was very involved in the design. And he got some good

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royalty check. And he did very few. When you first designed your shoe, did you notice like a,

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just the, like, the way you lived,

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like did you start making a lot of money at that point?

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Was that the number one thing that this money came and started coming in big time? That was the biggest difference in terms of like a lifestyle change.

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Yeah. Yeah. I mean, none of my friends had to pay for beer anymore.

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That was literally like what happens.

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Chad PERSON's got it.

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Yeah. But I mean, I wasn't making checks that were close to what like like, I think Dave and Tyrone PERSON were making. I think that they had probably come in under different contract terms too.

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Oh, okay. In terms of royalties and things like that. Because when they signed those, it was in the beginning.

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And they had no idea what this thing was going to turn into.

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But back then, 1998, I mean, what kind of checks are we talking about here?

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Like, just one royalty check you may have gotten that you remember.

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I think the biggest I got was 12,000.

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Okay.

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I would have assumed more at that point in time, but yeah, okay.

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Maybe it was more, and maybe I just didn't get all of what was there.

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Did you guys discuss contracts with each other back then?

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No, I mean, I think initially they did because I think that they all got very similar contracts.

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Okay.

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And yeah, I mean, we would ask advice of one another.

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A lot of us had, we were completely out of our element in these type of things.

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So we're trying to figure out like even where do you start to think about how to negotiate these things.

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But I think everybody was pretty aware of the deals that people had on the team.

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That's something that no skaters discussed really is like,

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it's my contract.

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But also,

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I don't think it needs to be discussed,

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but it should be discussed to understand where,

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how to go about it if you don't know.

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Yeah.

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Like where do you stand?

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Yeah,

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where do you stand and how do I,

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yeah,

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because you don't want to get taken advantage of,

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but also you want to,

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I want to make it win win.

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But let's be honest, there's levels to it also.

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There's tears to this, you know. Like you're going to go ask like a shy, like a shine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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You know what?

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I'm going to go in and ask for the same thing.

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Come on, let's be real.

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You've got to measure here.

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Let me see how this is going to work.

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I'm only getting $100 from 1031 PRODUCT.

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What is going on?

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Why are you making that much money?

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Yeah.

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Slightly different levels of comparison there.

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But yeah, I mean, the money came in quick and left quick.

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But again, it was just one of the most incredible experiences ever.

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To be part of that at that time in skateboarding.

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And again, it's, this is what I kind of wanted to talk to you guys about.

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We were talking before the show a little bit about the perception of skateboarding,

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uh, crews or cultures or whatever posse, uh, kind of in different areas between San Diego GPE and maybe like North County, San Diego and

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NorCal and in LA GPE.

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Yeah.

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And then, yeah, you go up even into NorCal GPE, but like, I don't know. I just think it's really interesting to understand what your guys'

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perspectives was of that back then, based on what my assumption of perceptions were of things back then.

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Because I just feel like it's really cool being at this age that we can have conversations about stuff like that now where it's like, yeah, back then it was like, man, we thought you guys were goofy.

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I mean, right, right.

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I don't.

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We said before the show, too, like, I was focused.

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I was hyper focused on girl and chocolate

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before that it was world and blind

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and plan B and all this stuff

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so I would watch the

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Osiris ORG video when it came out

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but that was as far as it went

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maybe one time I wasn't too interested in it

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I went back to what my guys were doing here

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that I can actually see and I would

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see him around and all that stuff

Speaker 0884.14s - 892.16s

so I really wasn't and I would see him around and all that stuff. So I really wasn't, whether I thought it was, you know, cool or whack,

Speaker 9892.22s - 895.16s

I wasn't even really like paying that much, that close attention.

Speaker 0895.38s - 896.2s

This is just me personally.

Speaker 8896.5s - 898.74s

I would just watch a video and be like, okay, cool.

Speaker 5898.9s - 902.92s

Like that wasn't my cup of tea.

Speaker 8903.04s - 908.42s

My cup of tea is the girl in chocolate and the clean and, you know, that type of stuff I grew up on.

Speaker 9908.92s - 909.34s

Style.

Speaker 8909.34s - 912.16s

I'm weighing on the same wave that you're talking about as well.

Speaker 9912.32s - 920.4s

Like I didn't really, the videos, like those videos would come out. I'd look at them, but it wasn't something I was like, damn, those dudes are like good or budget or whatever the fuck they were.

Speaker 0920.48s - 926.28s

You know, I didn't really take too much time and then I'd come back over to you know, my little crew and then get back in the zone.

Speaker 9927s - 934.08s

This episode is brought to us by AG1 PRODUCT. It is very important to me that the supplements I take

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Speaker 1998.32s - 1016.82s

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Speaker 01016.82s - 1025.98s

Go to your happy place for a happy price. Go to your happy price price line Yeah

Speaker 91025.98s - 1026.78s

For that matter too

Speaker 01026.78s - 1030.56s

It's like you maybe you'd hyper focus On one person on that team True That one video part

Speaker 71030.56s - 1030.88s

You go well

Speaker 01030.88s - 1036.38s

Oh that's a good video part I'm gonna watch that It gets me kind of psyched Maybe it's a Peter Smolick Maybe it's a Brandon Turner

Speaker 91036.38s - 1038.96s

Maybe it's a Jerry Sue You know maybe it's a Chad Knight

Speaker 61038.96s - 1040.86s

So yeah

Speaker 91040.86s - 1042.32s

For me it just wasn't

Speaker 31042.32s - 1043.98s

If you're asking the wrong people

Speaker 91043.98s - 1048.3s

I know I think I'm a good person to ask on this, to be honest.

Speaker 31048.3s - 1049.1s

I agree, I agree.

Speaker 91049.26s - 1051.04s

Because I was a kid watching all you guys.

Speaker 31051.24s - 1051.44s

Yes.

Speaker 91051.5s - 1053.44s

You know, and so I grew up in Orange County GPE.

Speaker 71053.98s - 1062.22s

When I first started skating, my friends would start taking me to L.A. and San Diego GPE. To be honest, I would go to both, and I was like, dude, San Diego GPE is so sick.

Speaker 31062.36s - 1077.58s

And this is late, I mean, 97 maybe, something like that. And when the storm came out, how old were you in 97? I was 13. Oh, okay. So I started, actually, the first time I went to L.A. or San Diego was 13.

Speaker 41077.72s - 1080.8s

Yeah. And then I started skating more and more 15, whatever good on there. I went more.

Speaker 31080.98s - 1108.46s

Anyways, I will say this, when the storm came out, a lot of my friends stopped going to San Diego GPE. I'm not kidding. Like, we would go, like, go skate down there and they'd go to L.A. And go back and forth. Why? Just because it made, like, the perception that you're talking about was exactly what you're like.It was like, oh, those guys were on their own shit. We don't want to, like I really didn't have feelings about it because, like I said, I had your shoes. Yeah. So I was like, oh, those guys were on their own shit. We don't want to, like I, like I said, I had your shoes. Yeah.

Speaker 41108.56s - 1109.62s

So I was like, oh, that's kind of cool.

Speaker 31109.66s - 1127.52s

I like it, you know? But then the storm came out and it generally was that everyone really was like, oh, girl chocolate, DCS, it's all in LA GPE. Let's go that way. That was kind of the way I heard it when I was a kid. Yeah. And that's, for me, do you, would you kind of agree that's what you felt like?Yes. Thank you.

Speaker 41127.64s - 1128.32s

But I hate saying.

Speaker 31128.44s - 1131.16s

I don't want to feel like I'm shit on people, but I just, I think it's fun to have

Speaker 51131.16s - 1134.68s

these honest conversations at this point, you know? And it's personal. That's how I felt.

Speaker 81134.98s - 1137.66s

You know, I'm not disson on anybody else at all.

Speaker 41138.04s - 1139.3s

But with all that said, though,

Speaker 81139.34s - 1140.56s

I definitely acknowledged

Speaker 41140.56s - 1141.74s

and knew who you guys were.

Speaker 81141.94s - 1142.1s

Yeah.

Speaker 41142.1s - 1156.32s

And that's like you were saying, like, I don't even know if we've met each other before. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, like, I felt like I've met you before. Yeah.Like, whether it'd been in an ASR or a trade show or something like that, maybe in the streets, I don't know, but we, there's got to be some sort of, like, respect in that sense where you're just like,

Speaker 91156.38s - 1162.16s

dude, I recognize you as my, you know, fellow skateboarder, you know? I also think back then everybody was talking shit about everybody.

Speaker 81162.44s - 1162.68s

True.

Speaker 41162.84s - 1166.56s

So you rewind the tape, and I would have said that Oaths Iris PRODUCT was whack.

Speaker 31166.64s - 1168.2s

Yep. Right.

Speaker 91168.36s - 1170.7s

But now it's just different. I don't know.

Speaker 31170.7s - 1176.48s

Well, it's funny. It's because like the industry was talking all this shit and the kids loved it and were buying it. You know what I mean?

Speaker 91176.54s - 1185.42s

So I was a kid buying it and I'm being like, then also starting to hear about other people like talking about it. There's like the other, the skate shops and all these things.

Speaker 81185.42s - 1187.2s

But I also went beyond skateboarding too.

Speaker 31187.3s - 1193.18s

It wasn't just skateboarding like that held a whole look of its own where people were like raving in those things and all types of shit.

Speaker 71194.56s - 1196.74s

There was a lot of raving in D.C. GPE's I think too.

Speaker 81196.74s - 1197s

True.

Speaker 71197.74s - 1198.38s

It's true.

Speaker 41198.38s - 1200.08s

But there are two sides of it.

Speaker 81200.08s - 1203.74s

There's an industry side and there's the people who you really impact.

Speaker 71203.74s - 1204.06s

Exactly.

Speaker 81204.32s - 1206.22s

That's what I was just going to say. What do you care about, right?

Speaker 91206.22s - 1227.56s

The people that you impacted probably. Absolutely. Who cares what? 100%. You're looking back at it now. You're in a whole different realm right now. Who cares what the industry is. And that is exactly what I was going to say to him. At the end of the day, like, if we inspired any kids to believe in themselves that they could do something they couldn't do or made them get out there and try something that they were afraid to try. Like, that's all it boils down to. And that's why I don't really care saying these things.

Speaker 41227.66s - 1227.82s

Yeah.

Speaker 91227.82s - 1230.38s

It's not like I'm too overly concerned about it.

Speaker 41230.38s - 1235.86s

And I also definitely think it's definitely individual. A video like that would come out and then people focused on certain people.

Speaker 91235.96s - 1236.64s

Yeah.

Speaker 41236.82s - 1239.04s

Right. It wasn't like, yeah.

Speaker 91239.22s - 1244.84s

It was kind of different from what was the other skate videos were getting put out too, I felt like a little different.

Speaker 31245.9s - 1245.96s

Because wouldn't that come out?

Speaker 91247.44s - 1248s

2000? 1998.

Speaker 31249.38s - 1249.66s

99. 99, yeah.

Speaker 91251.82s - 1265.52s

It was my freshman year of high school. I remember that. But that's when I started to like understand where I was as a skateboarder. Yeah, yeah. I saw that video come out. I was like, oh, this is cool. And then I started seeing trans little videos and like the chocolate tour and stuff like that. You're like, oh, I kind of more go towards these guys.

Speaker 81265.8s - 1271.54s

And that's kind of the- Our style of skating. Yeah, exactly. I'm sure I definitely ridiculed the video that when it first came out.

Speaker 31271.64s - 1272.98s

I mean, I got a lot of love for San Diego GPE.

Speaker 81273.08s - 1292.32s

I lived there for years. But that was after the fact. I remember going down there, be like, dude, San Diego GPE's awesome, dude. Normally comes down here anymore. There's so many spots and everyone's so cool.Skate Mafia was like kind of carrying the torch for San Diego GPE. It still is. They are the new Osiris, I feel like. Well, I wouldn't go that far. many spots and everyone's so cool. Skate Mafia was like kind of carrying the torch for San Diego GPE. It still is. They are the new Osiris ORG, I feel like. Well, I wouldn't go that far, but like, I know what you mean by that.

Speaker 41297.42s - 1297.92s

Yeah, I just mean in terms of like that where they live in San Diego GPE and kind of that. True, yes.

Speaker 31297.92s - 1299.18s

Crew has just evolved into that.

Speaker 41299.38s - 1299.76s

They're holding in.

Speaker 31299.76s - 1301.32s

They are insane.

Speaker 91302s - 1304.36s

Like, I love that team and everything.

Speaker 31304.58s - 1304.9s

Like, I am.

Speaker 91305.64s - 1307.14s

It's different than L.A. GPE, right?

Speaker 31307.24s - 1311.5s

There's people who hold L.A. down, but then you know, like, the San Diego's, right?

Speaker 91311.5s - 1312.62s

Like, you know that crew.

Speaker 31312.74s - 1312.84s

Yeah.

Speaker 91312.84s - 1313.92s

You don't know.

Speaker 41314.86s - 1315.44s

L.A. GPE's different.

Speaker 81315.5s - 1316.06s

L.A. GPE's too big.

Speaker 21316.06s - 1316.44s

It's too big.

Speaker 81316.44s - 1316.94s

Yeah.

Speaker 41317.02s - 1328.3s

There's a lot of pocket crews. For sure. Yeah. I think a lot of it, too, is like, who you know before you move out there for those of us that weren't California residents.

Speaker 61328.3s - 1334.86s

You know, you kind of land or you land and then you absorb or you just kind of adopt whatever that group is doing.

Speaker 01334.96s - 1338.44s

But you also had you had a taste of it before you even got out here, right?

Speaker 91338.54s - 1340.18s

I mean, you grew up in Ohio GPE.

Speaker 41341.1s - 1343.14s

Wasn't your first sponsor like H Street ORG or something?

Speaker 91343.34s - 1344.94s

Like how did even that come about?

Speaker 41347.46s - 1352.56s

When you were in this zone? What year was that? Like it would have been 93, 98.

Speaker 91352.96s - 1353.2s

80.

Speaker 41353.64s - 1354.76s

Yeah, it was like 13.

Speaker 91355.04s - 1356.4s

Got my dates mixed up.

Speaker 41356.56s - 1357.24s

He's born in 76.

Speaker 91357.54s - 1357.8s

Okay.

Speaker 41358.44s - 1361.36s

So about, you know, 13 years after that, about 89.

Speaker 91361.84s - 1362.88s

How did that come about?

Speaker 41363.14s - 1364.64s

So I was super lucky.

Speaker 91364.8s - 1369.74s

I grew up in Ohio. So, you know, obviously it's super cold there in the winter.

Speaker 41371.06s - 1374.98s

And it's just, it's one of those places where there's a lot of weather, so the ground just gets shitty.

Speaker 91375.1s - 1375.98s

Is this around the time?

Speaker 41375.98s - 1382.94s

So this is where I was, man, I got so, you see the little fists, too, that I got from you guys back in the thing.

Speaker 91383.46s - 1385.86s

Did I not say everybody's got the little fists?

Speaker 41385.9s - 1386.1s

Yep.

Speaker 91387.38s - 1388.16s

There it is.

Speaker 41388.58s - 1392.58s

You cannot not see it now. That's so funny.

Speaker 91392.66s - 1397.48s

My friend even made fun of me for doing that. It's like, why are you trying to be like those guys?

Speaker 41398.72s - 1403.56s

So I was fortunate enough to have a skate park that was very close by to my house.

Speaker 91403.56s - 1408.7s

And, you know, was lucky enough that there was a family car I could use on my own.

Speaker 41408.76s - 1432.26s

When I wanted to go there, I could go there. So it was like 24-7 skating. And we would skate there all the time. I eventually got sponsored. The guy that ran the place, his name was Kenny PERSON was, like, the best dude. Like, he would just go out of his way to help anybody.And he helped take, like, my tapes out to ASR ORG when he would go. And he got me on Union ORG.

Speaker 01432.72s - 1434.68s

He got me on H Street co-sponsored.

Speaker 41435.4s - 1439.84s

And then, so I would, like, pay half price for boards or whatever.

Speaker 81440.04s - 1443.92s

So he was kind of my conduit into the West Coast LOC. He was your first sponsor.

Speaker 41444.14s - 1452.4s

Yes, exactly. Sun Sports ORG. And then when I went out to Woodward, when I was like 14, I think. PA GPE.

Speaker 91453s - 1459.18s

Yeah, PA GPE. Danny and Mike Carroll were out there filming with Tananski PERSON, and I filmed with them.

Speaker 41459.94s - 1473.18s

Oh, wow. So I've been trying to find those tapes since then. I think Danny might have them. But there's footage of me standing up on this battleship ramp at Woodward PA FAC when I'm a little kid and questionable.

Speaker 81474.54s - 1477.32s

Because I was filming with them. Yeah, so then I got kind of on the team.

Speaker 41488.48s - 1489.54s

And we can come back to this maybe when we were talking before the show about how listening to the show has made me realize a lot of things in hindsight about why maybe certain things happened or what.

Speaker 81492.28s - 1492.42s

But Woodward ORG was huge for a lot of people too.

Speaker 41492.56s - 1492.58s

Yeah.

Speaker 91493.76s - 1494.08s

A lot of people met there.

Speaker 41495.6s - 1495.98s

Barley there, Ricky Oyola PERSON.

Speaker 91496.36s - 1502.12s

Crazy. All those dudes. So, yeah, that's where I got sponsored by H.G ORG a little bit more formally, I think.

Speaker 01502.5s - 1505.86s

And then I think the next year they started plan B.

Speaker 41506.94s - 1509.84s

You were like, okay, I guess this is it.

Speaker 31509.84s - 1511.04s

I was just kind of always chasing.

Speaker 91511.24s - 1512.68s

I feel like my whole career.

Speaker 31513.12s - 1516.26s

Was that, is that where you're talking, the photo right behind you to your left?

Speaker 41516.58s - 1518.84s

Is that when you met Ternanski PERSON?

Speaker 31518.96s - 1519.54s

Yeah, there he is.

Speaker 41520.22s - 1521.06s

Mike Ternanski PERSON.

Speaker 31521.06s - 1527.38s

So, this was probably, yeah, like 98, I guess.

Speaker 41528.46s - 1529.26s

Yeah, 88.

Speaker 31529.94s - 1531.06s

Oh, yeah, sorry, 88, yeah.

Speaker 91532.28s - 1533.46s

But right before Plan B.

Speaker 41533.54s - 1534.5s

Did, is it true?

Speaker 91534.72s - 1539.18s

I heard that Alfonso Rawls and Eric Koston PERSON stayed at your house.

Speaker 71539.18s - 1539.62s

Where did you hear that?

Speaker 91540.4s - 1541.18s

Don't worry about it.

Speaker 41541.94s - 1542.38s

Yes.

Speaker 91542.9s - 1547.28s

And it's so cool because I can, when Kost PERSON costume's on like a video now, I can be like,

Speaker 41547.34s - 1548.38s

mom, look, it's costume.

Speaker 91548.82s - 1550.12s

And she's like, oh, I remember him.

Speaker 41550.56s - 1553s

This is still when you were on H Street ORG, right?

Speaker 61553.38s - 1557.52s

So when the video next came out, they had a premiere for it at one of the distribution,

Speaker 91557.82s - 1559.52s

cow distribution in Cleveland GPE.

Speaker 51560.56s - 1565.58s

And I don't know how in the hell they didn't have a hotel, but somehow they ended up like,

Speaker 91565.62s - 1567.5s

I think they're flying out of Columbus the next day,

Speaker 41567.56s - 1570.74s

so they crashed at my place. How did you even,

Speaker 91571.1s - 1574.28s

just crazy? Did they know you were sponsored by H Street ORG?

Speaker 41574.38s - 1585.82s

Yeah, so I went, okay. I don't really know how it happened. I was like 14. And I think that that guy, Kenny PERSON maybe kind of helped,like, hey, Chad lives in Columbus GPE. If they need to fly out of there, they could probably stay at his place

Speaker 81585.82s - 1588.84s

they're like 16 and 17 at that time then I would imagine

Speaker 41588.84s - 1594.52s

yeah and they were trying to get me to like get girls over for I'm like dude I'm 13 years old 14 I have no idea

Speaker 81594.52s - 1601.3s

like I can call Sally PERSON over but I don't know what so yeah and then I was so

Speaker 41601.3s - 1611.22s

and this was like a freshman in high school and was wrestling at the time. Like, I was kind of forced into a bit of traditional sports route for a while.

Speaker 61611.58s - 1618.16s

And I had to wake up in the morning and go to wrestling practice instead of hanging out with them before they left for the trip.

Speaker 91618.24s - 1620.22s

And it was so bummed.

Speaker 41620.62s - 1624.2s

So you got home embarrassed. I'm like, yeah. So guys, I have to go to wrestling practice.

Speaker 91624.32s - 1625.08s

I'll see you guys. Were you wearing your little suit and everything, yeah. Sorry, guys, I have to go to wrestling practice. I'll see you guys.

Speaker 41625.52s - 1630.68s

Were you wearing your little suit and everything your little head thing? No, okay. Not there at least. We got there.

Speaker 91631s - 1632.32s

How long did you do the wrestling for?

Speaker 41632.52s - 1635.14s

I did it initially when I was in the first grade.

Speaker 91635.58s - 1637.34s

Like my brothers did it.

Speaker 41638.12s - 1642.86s

I grew up in a very traditional middle, upper class, white picket fence, you know.

Speaker 91643.52s - 1646.08s

So they didn't like you skateboarding at first

Speaker 41646.08s - 1652.48s

never really but um to this day i mean my my my dad and i butt heads a lot back then um

Speaker 91652.48s - 1661.68s

we're great now i'm you know um but he definitely had kind of a oh my god there you are here you are

Speaker 41661.68s - 1665.66s

dude i got third in the state in the first grade

Speaker 71665.66s - 1666.78s

third in the state

Speaker 41666.78s - 1667.72s

for my age group

Speaker 91667.72s - 1672.72s

which was like what five but yeah look at that that was my first sponsor me tapelook at you

Speaker 41672.72s - 1674.34s

that's you walking up like a versatile

Speaker 31674.34s - 1675s

I am

Speaker 41675s - 1676.22s

look at that

Speaker 91676.22s - 1676.6s

oh my

Speaker 41676.6s - 1677.74s

I just I never thought about

Speaker 31677.74s - 1682.1s

like I just saw people like wrestling in like high school I never know it was like a yuk yeah

Speaker 41682.1s - 1682.62s

let me ask

Speaker 91682.62s - 1682.98s

yeah

Speaker 41682.98s - 1686.86s

it wasn't through a school or anything so that's probably why. And then I did gymnastics for-

Speaker 91686.86s - 1691.1s

No, what the hell? Why is this on your sponsor me tape? Um,

Speaker 41691.28s - 1698.3s

I think because I thought it was just kind of funny and I knew that they would never have seen anything like that in the beginning of a sponsor me tape.

Speaker 81698.42s - 1699.9s

This is actually on your sponsor me tape.

Speaker 41699.94s - 1701.42s

This was my very first sponsor me tape.

Speaker 81701.42s - 1702.92s

Where did you send this thing to?

Speaker 91703.04s - 1703.46s

H Street ORG.

Speaker 41704.46s - 1705.28s

It worked. It worked. You're like, this guy's going places. He's doing this. He's doing that. He's to me. That's amazing. Where did you send this thing to? H Street ORG. It worked.

Speaker 91705.58s - 1708.36s

It worked. You're like, this guy's going places. He's doing this.

Speaker 41708.42s - 1711.2s

He's doing that. He's doing that. He could skateboard. That is amazing.

Speaker 91711.2s - 1719.86s

It just goes to show, man. I was a kid in Ohio GPE. I had no idea what I was doing or at what all this was. It all worked the cell phone.

Speaker 01719.96s - 1719.98s

I love it.

Speaker 51719.98s - 1720s

I love it.

Speaker 81720s - 1720.18s

I love it.

Speaker 51720.18s - 1720.78s

I love it.

Speaker 71720.78s - 1721.98s

I know how to flip over.

Speaker 51722.08s - 1722.98s

I can fall well.

Speaker 01724.68s - 1725.78s

He gave me a variety. And that was my high school that I eventually. This is my first 360 PRODUCT know how to flip over. I can fall well. Wow. He gave me a variety.

Speaker 41726.08s - 1727.04s

And that was my high school

Speaker 91727.04s - 1729.26s

that I eventually, this is my first 360 flip. There you go.

Speaker 41729.46s - 1731.18s

You could see the struggle.

Speaker 91731.58s - 1733.04s

Oh, he's even putting bales on air.

Speaker 41733.22s - 1736.74s

No, that wasn't an intentional cut. Okay, okay. There you go.

Speaker 91736.76s - 1736.9s

Oh.

Speaker 41738.7s - 1739.58s

There's my house.

Speaker 91739.68s - 1743.2s

What are the air walks? Those are air walks. Yeah, yeah. This was,

Speaker 41743.7s - 1748.9s

uh, look at this. Sun Sports ORG. So Deerick PERSON used to go here too a lot.

Speaker 91749.14s - 1749.96s

Mm, okay.

Speaker 41750.62s - 1754.44s

He used to show up like, like every three months or something. We'd see him there. Nice.

Speaker 81754.8s - 1755.4s

Where was he at?

Speaker 41755.6s - 1756.2s

Dayton GPE.

Speaker 81756.44s - 1762.04s

Dayton GPE. It's about an hour and a half, two hours from Columbus GPE. It's so funny watching this.

Speaker 31762.2s - 1769.3s

When you, at first I was like, wait, did Roger PERSON just Google Chad Knight freaking gymnastics? It just popped up.

Speaker 41769.76s - 1770.56s

Can you imagine?

Speaker 21770.86s - 1771.4s

I was like,

Speaker 31771.46s - 1772.38s

how was he funny this?

Speaker 91772.66s - 1773.5s

My whole gymnastics

Speaker 21773.5s - 1774.96s

catalog that's on YouTube ORG.

Speaker 41775.12s - 1775.36s

What do you mean?

Speaker 91775.42s - 1776.56s

He made artwork about this.

Speaker 41776.6s - 1777.08s

Now, I'm just kidding.

Speaker 21777.7s - 1779.34s

So you're in,

Speaker 41779.44s - 1780.7s

you're still in Ohio GPE,

Speaker 91781.16s - 1782.04s

you got 8th Street.

Speaker 41782.24s - 1784.34s

You were responsible by evil also?

Speaker 91784.72s - 1785.98s

Eventually. Eventually. Was that

Speaker 41785.98s - 1786.42s

out here?

Speaker 91786.62s - 1788.2s

Eighth Street FAC turned into, no, this was

Speaker 41788.2s - 1788.94s

Still out there.

Speaker 91789.82s - 1799.08s

Yeah, like early in high school, I think 8th Street transformed into Evol FAC. And then the team manager at the time was

Speaker 41799.08s - 1814.64s

Ed Dominic PERSON. Yeah. And I was super close to him. I had been, like, you know, he was who I talked to in California when I was in Ohio. So he transitioned over to Maple ORG. And Dave Snyder and I went over there. And that was still prior to me moving out to San Diego GPE.

Speaker 91814.82s - 1820.54s

Oh, so this was all still in Ohio GPE. Really? Yeah. So you went from 8th Street to Evo FAC. I mean, by default.

Speaker 41820.64s - 1821.02s

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 91821.02s - 1828.68s

When they made, when they did Evo FAC, did they, they were redoing the whole team, right? So you maybe not? Not really. No, they just kind of like, yeah. When they made, when they did evil, did they, they were redoing the whole team, right? So you, maybe not? Not really.

Speaker 41828.68s - 1829.58s

No, they just kind of like,

Speaker 91829.88s - 1830.9s

change the name and that was it.

Speaker 41830.9s - 1831.26s

Kind of.

Speaker 91831.32s - 1834.8s

Okay. Because if you think about it, um, it was,

Speaker 41834.82s - 1837.16s

it was still all like Chad Vaught PERSON, you know,

Speaker 01837.18s - 1838.54s

it was still all the same guys.

Speaker 91838.66s - 1838.78s

True.

Speaker 01838.78s - 1840.68s

I think they maybe had started adding people like,

Speaker 91840.94s - 1851.16s

no, because Misha PERSON even and like Ben-Relding and those guys were all each street still. So it just kind of, it it just transformed names I think once planned little before my time so I don't know too much about yeah yeah so and then

Speaker 41851.16s - 1854.98s

it's very important that you know these things I'll remember it now I'll remember

Speaker 91854.98s - 1859.92s

it now and then Maple so you got on Maple while you were still in Ohio GPE yeah

Speaker 41859.92s - 1868.26s

was 16 who was on the team at that point? Wow. Donger or Ken Liu, uh, Jason Carney PERSON, Mark

Speaker 91868.26s - 1876.42s

Johnson, um, Tom Horning PERSON. I think I never met him. And I think that's it other than

Speaker 41876.42s - 1881.58s

to Mayhew and Snyder PERSON and myself. Oh, so did you, Snyder was there before you were there?

Speaker 91881.58s - 1885.02s

Snyder and Mayhew PERSON and I were all, so I'll back up a little bit.

Speaker 41885.1s - 1886.6s

We all rode for 8th Street.

Speaker 31887.4s - 1888.62s

And at one point, like,

Speaker 41888.68s - 1891.18s

we had all met up and skated kind of Midwest together.

Speaker 31891.66s - 1893.86s

So we all talked to Ed PERSON,

Speaker 41893.96s - 1895.66s

so when Evil ORG,

Speaker 31896.72s - 1898.56s

or when Ed was leaving Evil to go to Maple ORG,

Speaker 41898.66s - 1899.54s

he took all of us with him.

Speaker 71899.72s - 1900.38s

Ah, I see.

Speaker 31900.54s - 1902.3s

And I think maybe there had always been

Speaker 71902.3s - 1904.24s

a little bit of weirdness there with,

Speaker 31905.6s - 1910.52s

because that was essentially us leaving Osiris to go to Maple ORG because that was the same umbrella.

Speaker 71910.66s - 1914.38s

So when we went back, I think that there was still a little bit of weirdness for the people

Speaker 41914.38s - 1916.74s

who were on Maple at the time riding for Osiris ORG.

Speaker 61916.88s - 1918.48s

But Osiris ORG wasn't there yet.

Speaker 41918.7s - 1918.96s

Was it?

Speaker 61919.02s - 1919.38s

It was still.

Speaker 31919.58s - 1920.08s

Not at the time.

Speaker 61920.2s - 1920.42s

Okay.

Speaker 31920.42s - 1920.54s

Correct.

Speaker 41920.8s - 1920.94s

Yeah.

Speaker 31921.04s - 1922.24s

And you guys are young.

Speaker 41922.68s - 1923.5s

You know what I.

Speaker 31924.62s - 1925.54s

You guys are young. Yeah. Right. How do you know? 16. Right. 18. Yeah. I mean, correct. Yeah. And you guys are young. What, you know, what I, yeah. You guys are young.

Speaker 91925.76s - 1926s

Yeah.

Speaker 31926.16s - 1926.44s

Right.

Speaker 41926.64s - 1927.06s

How do you know?

Speaker 91927.2s - 1928.16s

16, 18.

Speaker 41928.82s - 1929.92s

Yeah, I mean, child.

Speaker 91930.14s - 1936.06s

But you're now on Maple ORG. Did you know Mark Johnson PERSON or any of these? Like, this was a fresh team for you. Yeah.

Speaker 41936.1s - 1959.72s

You didn't know anybody. Correct. Wow. I knew Ed PERSON. And I knew Mayhew PERSON. But I mean, I trusted Ed PERSON a ton, you know.Like, he had done so much for me. I flew out to go hang out in San Diego GPE and skate around for a while, you know, when I was still on evil and stayed at his house and, you know, he drove me around. Like, he was just such a good guy that I was willing to follow him where he went at that point.

Speaker 91960.1s - 1961.24s

A smart move, though.

Speaker 41961.24s - 1965.02s

I mean, to get on Maple ORG, because Maple became just kind of an iconic brand.

Speaker 91965.38s - 1970.32s

You know, especially with Mark Johnson PERSON, having these video parts with an intermission in it.

Speaker 41970.32s - 1971.1s

Dude, dude.

Speaker 91971.46s - 1972.4s

Seven Steps ahead.

Speaker 31972.46s - 1973.48s

It's so great video.

Speaker 41973.66s - 1974.34s

So good.

Speaker 91974.46s - 1974.66s

Yeah.

Speaker 41975.16s - 1979.94s

I really wish, in hindsight, that I had spent more time with Mark PERSON back then.

Speaker 31981.44s - 1985.04s

Just be, I mean, I knew at the time how incredible he was

Speaker 91985.04s - 1985.68s

and just how

Speaker 31985.68s - 1988.68s

interesting of a person he was

Speaker 41988.68s - 1990.22s

but I just I wish that I would have gotten

Speaker 31990.22s - 1991.64s

to known him a lot better

Speaker 91991.64s - 1993.56s

so was you filming kind of

Speaker 31993.56s - 1995.36s

on your own little missions

Speaker 41995.36s - 1997.12s

he didn't always skate with him back then

Speaker 31997.12s - 1999.2s

so I would film yeah he

Speaker 41999.2s - 2000.4s

because he was all the way up in San Jose

Speaker 32000.4s - 2003.04s

and Mayhew PERSON and I were down in San Diego

Speaker 42003.04s - 2005.92s

so we would film with Steve Selentani who was Mayhew's filmmaker who'd moved out to California like you know myhew and I were down in San Diego, so we would film with Steve Salentani PERSON, who was

Speaker 72005.92s - 2008.04s

Mayhew's filmer, who had moved out to California.

Speaker 32008.16s - 2010.22s

Like, you know, my buddies and I filmed each other.

Speaker 72010.48s - 2014.32s

So like going out there and being able to film with him was like a trip, being able to actually

Speaker 42014.32s - 2016.18s

have a real filmer on the session.

Speaker 62016.28s - 2019.4s

So when you were filming for the Maple 7-7, you were already living down in San Diego GPE.

Speaker 92019.78s - 2020.04s

Yes.

Speaker 62020.1s - 2020.86s

You already made the move.

Speaker 92021.12s - 2023.18s

Some of the footage is from Ohio GPE still.

Speaker 42023.3s - 2023.54s

Okay.

Speaker 92023.84s - 2028.92s

I think the video came out in like 96, I think, and I moved out in 95.

Speaker 42029.28s - 2035.3s

So some of the clips are from California, but then, you know, there's some hometown,

Speaker 92035.98s - 2038.3s

some hometown goodies in there, too. Right, right.

Speaker 42038.52s - 2043.14s

So you would go up to San Jose GPE at all and skate with these guys?

Speaker 92043.26s - 2043.84s

Once, I think.

Speaker 42043.84s - 2063.98s

Once, yeah. Like, we were super, that's what I'm saying. We were just, like, rooted. Right. And that's kind of, I think, one of the other things that I really regret was not venturing out and getting to know more groups of skateboarders. Because we were, I mean, like, again, granted, there was no social media.Drive, L.A. two hours away seemed like forever. Sure.

Speaker 52064.1s - 2066.62s

Yeah. And how are you going to really get to know people?

Speaker 42066.74s - 2071.74s

And I've never been super good at just like, hey, I don't know you. Let's go hang out.

Speaker 32073.16s - 2073.94s

So. Yeah.

Speaker 42074.6s - 2079.22s

No, San Diego GPE is, like, it's a beautiful city, but it is on its own down there.

Speaker 72079.22s - 2079.42s

Yeah.

Speaker 52079.58s - 2080.58s

It's hard to get out of there.

Speaker 72080.68s - 2081.76s

I just did the drive.

Speaker 02081.84s - 2092.22s

It took me three hours, dude. Yeah. Like, you're sitting in traffic. But I will say, I could almost say that spots in San Diego GPE had more spots in San Diego back then than there was in L.A.

Speaker 32092.88s - 2095.22s

Yeah, that's probably what I was, yeah.

Speaker 42095.38s - 2104.46s

That's what I was thinking is that it seemed like San Diego GPE used to have a lot of spots. And L.A. GPE didn't until people started really skating and filming in L.A. And then they unearthed.

Speaker 32109.14s - 2113.18s

Yeah. There's a thousand times more thing than stuff than there is in San Diego GPE down there. Because they knobbed like all this school, I remember skating this school a bunch too.

Speaker 42116.6s - 2116.72s

I can't remember the name of it. It's got the over the rail and the bank thing there too.

Speaker 32118.38s - 2118.48s

Yeah, that's not Brooklyn GPE, is it?

Speaker 42118.84s - 2127.2s

No. Roosevelt PERSON. Roosevelt PERSON. But the spots were so good, but they capped everything down there. Yeah. They really skate knob. Yeah. Oh, man. Dude, but they capped everything down there. Yeah. They really skate on.

Speaker 02127.4s - 2130.9s

Yeah. Oh, man. Dude, I went by there. That's completely gone now. Really?

Speaker 92131.34s - 2131.7s

Washington GPE.

Speaker 02134.02s - 2134.08s

I drove by and it through the freeway right there,

Speaker 92135.6s - 2142.52s

and I was like, I looked completely gone. And this is so. Yeah, so this is. Sports arena. I mean, huge.

Speaker 42143.74s - 2155.32s

I had that trick really good then. Did you? Yeah. And you know what's funny is I remember always telling my friends afterwards and stuff. I'm like, dude, I think I closed my eyes when I did it because I don't remember doing it. And then.

Speaker 82155.32s - 2155.74s

Blacked out.

Speaker 42156.06s - 2164.16s

Yeah. And then listening to your guy's show with all these people talking about like blacking out during tricks. I didn't know that was a thing. That literally happened to me. I don't remember.

Speaker 02164.86s - 2166.92s

And then you're riding away. What the hell

Speaker 22166.92s - 2169.62s

happened? Like, how how many tries? Wow.

Speaker 42170.46s - 2171.96s

Not a lot. Probably like 20.

Speaker 92172.8s - 2174.02s

Which wasn't a lot for me.

Speaker 42174.92s - 2176.06s

And then in the storm,

Speaker 32176.46s - 2178.52s

it was in the storm you switch pop shubbered at it.

Speaker 42178.62s - 2180.02s

Yeah. Okay. Wow.

Speaker 92180.26s - 2181.86s

I think switched backslip for that time was

Speaker 32181.86s - 2183.28s

next level. Psycho. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 42184.24s - 2185.22s

All day. Yeah.

Speaker 32185.34s - 2188.76s

I mean, I honestly felt like I kind of almost went there on a whim, like one of those

Speaker 42188.76s - 2208.84s

things. But that, so that right there is probably like the most defining moment of my life, I would say, because that was the one time where it was so evident to me that I was capable of doing that I didn't think I was capable of doing something that I didn't think I was capable of doing or that I didn't know I was capable of doing.

Speaker 72209.16s - 2209.36s

Hmm.

Speaker 42209.76s - 2224.8s

And it just like, it was like, holy shit, maybe, you know, I've always been kind of second guessing what I'm capable of doing and what I could do and, you know, holding myself back a little bit. So that was such a defining moment for me in terms of just like my life perception and perspective,

Speaker 82224.8s - 2230.32s

I feel like. Was that pre-planned or was that like something that you kind of like, I'm going there today to do this?

Speaker 42230.34s - 2231.72s

Yes. It was pre-planned.

Speaker 82231.88s - 2233.6s

But again, it was kind of just like a

Speaker 42233.6s - 2236.04s

Hail Mary almost. Like maybe it was just switched

Speaker 82236.04s - 2238.1s

back because I went 80 to it. And it was

Speaker 42238.1s - 2240s

like, I'll try it, man. Man, you showed him up, huh?

Speaker 82240.68s - 2242.04s

Wow. You just went after

Speaker 92242.04s - 2244.2s

him. It had already come out a while

Speaker 62244.2s - 2247.22s

ago. Did you film that early on in the part

Speaker 32247.22s - 2248.3s

Or like towards the end?

Speaker 92249.04s - 2250.82s

That was pretty early on, I think.

Speaker 32251.04s - 2253.28s

That helped so much while filming a video part.

Speaker 92253.4s - 2253.98s

Oh my God.

Speaker 32254.44s - 2257.08s

Yeah, I mean, that's like, now you just got to fill in the gaps

Speaker 92257.08s - 2257.98s

And things like that.

Speaker 32258.1s - 2260.68s

But I mean, it was so much less planned out

Speaker 42260.68s - 2263.22s

Then in terms of like, at least for me, you know,

Speaker 32263.26s - 2265.36s

I just was like winging it.

Speaker 42265.54s - 2281.8s

I'm going to go skate. We'll get some tricks. I mean, it took a while even to where we would be like, okay, let's go to this spot and try to do this trick. Which I feel like really takes your skateboarding up the next level instead of just having to like skate whatever you're at that day.

Speaker 62281.88s - 2287.9s

Right. And try to like maybe come up with something. It's going to be pretty maybe average at best

Speaker 42287.9s - 2290.5s

yeah what what interesting too because like back then

Speaker 92290.5s - 2291.36s

I feel like

Speaker 42291.36s - 2294.12s

few and far between

Speaker 92294.12s - 2299.4s

I mean maybe we're getting into the era where you're going out and like actually trying to film a trick

Speaker 62299.4s - 2302.06s

but I mean at least up here it was kind of like

Speaker 92302.06s - 2304.54s

just going out and filming yeah it wasn't like you had

Speaker 62304.54s - 2306.48s

no sometimes you did have plans, right?

Speaker 82307.38s - 2308.76s

Oh, for going to Vanu and one bum today.

Speaker 62308.86s - 2309.06s

All right.

Speaker 82309.14s - 2309.6s

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 92309.7s - 2310.32s

We'll see what happens.

Speaker 32310.52s - 2311.04s

Yeah.

Speaker 92311.16s - 2316.36s

But back then, though, when you're skating with like, you know, Kent and Russell PERSON and like Josh

Speaker 32316.36s - 2317.54s

Casper and you guys are like.

Speaker 92317.74s - 2318.2s

Client.

Speaker 32318.4s - 2320.2s

No, no, huge ass gaps.

Speaker 92320.4s - 2323.06s

Then you guys kind of battle for spots then.

Speaker 32323.22s - 2323.44s

Yeah.

Speaker 92323.54s - 2325.44s

To those level, like, oh, there's this huge gap.

Speaker 32325.52s - 2328.16s

I don't want fucking Josh PERSON to see this because he'll skate it too.

Speaker 02328.4s - 2333.12s

Was there any of like keeping spots in a hush back then? So remember the three bedroom house I talked about?

Speaker 42333.56s - 2335.08s

Casper lived in that with us.

Speaker 32335.2s - 2335.6s

Oh, okay.

Speaker 42335.9s - 2353.02s

So we would go. I mean, there was like a year probably there when we had first met that we were like skating a lot. But dude, I would never even touch the stuff he would like you would jump down the gnarliest shit where I'm like go for it man like even Canton GPE he was

Speaker 92353.02s - 2360.48s

in the league of their own right yes but in the sense of like a the the sports arena and stuff like

Speaker 42360.48s - 2365.38s

would they you guys wouldn't session stuff together? Sometimes. Okay.

Speaker 82367.76s - 2368.22s

In the Evol FAC video,

Speaker 42369.58s - 2370.02s

I think that Tyrone PERSON mentioned,

Speaker 82371.1s - 2373.92s

there's a friend section in there where I had a Nali half cab down sports arena.

Speaker 92374.08s - 2375.3s

And I think it was the same session

Speaker 42375.3s - 2376.82s

that Tyrone PERSON had gotten a bunch of tricks.

Speaker 92377.18s - 2378.92s

And so we used to session it a lot.

Speaker 42379.58s - 2381.74s

And then when you saw Jeremy Ray Allie PERSON the whole damn thing.

Speaker 92381.74s - 2382.28s

Dude, that.

Speaker 42384.52s - 2385.8s

You've been there, I'm assuming, right?

Speaker 92385.8s - 2386.72s

I've never been there.

Speaker 42386.82s - 2387.42s

Oh, it's big.

Speaker 92387.46s - 2387.78s

It is.

Speaker 42387.9s - 2396.46s

I can just tell by the video. It's huge. I mean, there's some things you see where you're like, dude, that would be so gnarly. And then there's some things that you see and you're just like, that's not even a spot.

Speaker 92396.66s - 2398.1s

I mean, and that's not a spot.

Speaker 42398.1s - 2399.84s

He didn't even have that much runway out there.

Speaker 92400.14s - 2401.32s

He's on this a couple times, guys.

Speaker 82401.5s - 2405.66s

The water, the water things are even out even way more out of hand than that is.

Speaker 42405.74s - 2407s

Well, it just, yeah, when you see the...

Speaker 32407s - 2407.78s

I gotta go check that out.

Speaker 92407.86s - 2408.58s

I haven't seen that.

Speaker 32408.92s - 2410.12s

Well, that's just sketchy.

Speaker 22410.5s - 2412.38s

Yeah, when you see the run-up to, like, the sports,

Speaker 82412.48s - 2415.06s

the three, the triple set,

Speaker 22415.42s - 2416.68s

you just don't think with the run-up,

Speaker 82416.74s - 2418.96s

with what's going on, like, okay, it's not really possible.

Speaker 22419.16s - 2419.28s

Yeah.

Speaker 32419.28s - 2422.04s

But then you see the Buster bail that Thrasher PERSON did.

Speaker 22422.34s - 2423s

You get a ramp.

Speaker 82423.18s - 2424.52s

Oh, you get a ramp in this shit.

Speaker 92424.94s - 2429.38s

Oh, yeah. People are frontside flipping it and all. Same, you get a ramp. Oh, you get a ramp in this and shit. Oh, it's like, oh, it's flip. People are frontside flipping it and all this. Same thing as Walenberg PERSON. Yeah.

Speaker 32429.38s - 2434.18s

You know, there's only so many things were possible bombing the hill and coming into the

Speaker 42434.18s - 2435.66s

school and then just skate in the stairs.

Speaker 92435.78s - 2438.86s

But when you put a drop in, whatever.

Speaker 42439.08s - 2443.4s

There's something, too, to the drop in where you know your speed's right. You have nothing to worry about.

Speaker 92443.48s - 2445.34s

Like, you're not exhausted from the push up.

Speaker 52445.34s - 2447.84s

Yes. There's something to do it that makes it easier.

Speaker 42448.06s - 2451.42s

That is absolutely gigantic.

Speaker 52451.84s - 2452.42s

It's insane.

Speaker 72452.8s - 2453.72s

It's psycho, dude.

Speaker 52453.72s - 2457.2s

I mean, look at where he is relative to that second set.

Speaker 72457.78s - 2459.6s

He would, I mean, to, yeah, he pushed that.

Speaker 42460.1s - 2460.28s

Yeah.

Speaker 92460.46s - 2461.42s

Well, he threw down, right?

Speaker 42461.48s - 2462.62s

He threw down and then.

Speaker 82462.92s - 2463.08s

Yeah.

Speaker 92463.54s - 2463.66s

Yeah.

Speaker 82463.66s - 2464.08s

Psycho.

Speaker 42464.68s - 2466.56s

What video was this in? Was this in the audio video?

Speaker 82466.74s - 2466.88s

No.

Speaker 32467.34s - 2468.68s

It was a trans world video.

Speaker 82469.56s - 2471.38s

It was in like 16mm section, I think.

Speaker 92471.88s - 2472.32s

Yeah.

Speaker 32472.48s - 2473.14s

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 92473.38s - 2474.78s

True. That's right.

Speaker 32475.14s - 2475.42s

Wow.

Speaker 92475.48s - 2476.46s

That's so...

Speaker 22476.46s - 2477.76s

Only one has ever done that, right?

Speaker 92477.76s - 2478.32s

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 32478.34s - 2478.54s

I mean...

Speaker 22478.54s - 2479.86s

By itself with no...

Speaker 32479.86s - 2484.54s

Listen, cover up the right side of it right here and just look at the double set.

Speaker 22484.72s - 2485.82s

Even double set's huge.

Speaker 32486.46s - 2489.18s

And then you add that extra set.

Speaker 22489.6s - 2490s

Wow.

Speaker 32490.68s - 2493.48s

Yeah, I could not believe when I saw that.

Speaker 92493.6s - 2500.1s

That was an era too where it was like every month, like Heath PERSON was putting out something that was so gnarly or rowley.

Speaker 42500.4s - 2500.46s

True.

Speaker 92500.46s - 2503.94s

It was just like, man, there's so much heavy stuff going down at that time.

Speaker 42504.54s - 2508.38s

What about the gap that Josh Casper Ollie PERSON with the DJ at the bottom?

Speaker 32509.04s - 2509.24s

Did you?

Speaker 02509.34s - 2512.34s

What did you think when that was going on?

Speaker 32512.68s - 2514.6s

Because I went to that, I've been to that gap.

Speaker 02515.14s - 2516.14s

It's next to Sarah High School ORG.

Speaker 32516.3s - 2517.96s

It is massive.

Speaker 42518s - 2518.82s

It's massive.

Speaker 32518.82s - 2519.06s

Yeah.

Speaker 42519.46s - 2521.42s

Did you think it was a little too much that he had a DJ there maybe?

Speaker 32523.22s - 2524.52s

Wait, why was there a DJ there?

Speaker 42524.82s - 2525.16s

Exactly. He brought the DJ? Listen, why was there a DJ there? Exactly.

Speaker 32525.36s - 2526.7s

He brought the DJ?

Speaker 92527.56s - 2529.32s

Listen, I got this trick I want to do.

Speaker 32529.4s - 2530.28s

I need the tunes.

Speaker 92530.28s - 2535.48s

Well, he, he, I think he tried it with the DJ and didn't do it and then went back without

Speaker 32535.48s - 2536.08s

the DJ here.

Speaker 92536.28s - 2542.04s

But he, so it was this like, it's, yeah, it's similar to the, uh, that Schekler ORG kickflip

Speaker 32542.04s - 2542.72s

at that Costco ORG.

Speaker 92542.96s - 2543.2s

Yeah.

Speaker 32544.4s - 2547.54s

Um, but the gap is just really far to the rail.

Speaker 42547.96s - 2548.52s

Oh, it is.

Speaker 92548.52s - 2548.8s

Yeah.

Speaker 42548.96s - 2549.4s

Okay.

Speaker 92549.4s - 2550.6s

You can't see that from here.

Speaker 72550.6s - 2554.8s

But, I mean, Casper was just so on his own thing, man.

Speaker 02554.92s - 2555.24s

Right.

Speaker 42555.34s - 2559.3s

That guy was so entertaining to watch.

Speaker 32560.16s - 2562.9s

Speaking to Casper, we just saw, me, Chris PERSON just saw him recently.

Speaker 42563.02s - 2563.28s

Really?

Speaker 92563.28s - 2563.94s

Yeah.

Speaker 42564.06s - 2564.86s

Oh, wow.

Speaker 82564.96s - 2565.18s

Yeah. Hadn't seen him in years, brother. Oh, that's great. I would love to saw him recently really, yeah, yeah, oh wow. Yeah,

Speaker 42565.18s - 2571.06s

hadn't seen him in years, probably, oh, that's great. I would love to see him. I haven't seen himin a really long time. I mean,

Speaker 92571.14s - 2572.6s

talking about coming in and making a,

Speaker 42573.38s - 2573.78s

making him,

Speaker 92573.84s - 2574.56s

making himself known.

Speaker 42574.68s - 2574.96s

Yeah.

Speaker 92575.1s - 2580.18s

In the industry, right? Oh, down. We could have a whole episode talking about Casperholics ORG.Oh, my God.

Speaker 72580.9s - 2584.94s

Casperholics. Wow. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 42587.08s - 2587.24s

The Maple years, right?

Speaker 92588.4s - 2589.24s

Great years, you turned pro For Maple

Speaker 42589.24s - 2590.82s

Must have been

Speaker 62590.82s - 2592.4s

I mean, that was a great

Speaker 92592.4s - 2598.4s

When when that When Maple ORG kind of fizzled out Is that when you went to 1031 Or did you go earlier?

Speaker 42598.4s - 2601.9s

I went to INC So this was a dark period Okay

Speaker 92601.9s - 2603.32s

What was so dark?

Speaker 42603.38s - 2615.44s

No, it wasn't a dark period I mean it was just On top of the world and then Yeah, yeah literally I mean that's kind of what It was a dark period. Okay. What was so dark? No, it wasn't a dark period. I mean, it was just... On top of the world and then... Yeah, yeah, literally. I mean, that's kind of what... It was a dark period for me in terms of kind of career trajectory, you know, where I was going.

Speaker 62615.44s - 2629.8s

And I was very guilty of being super complacent and overly comfortable in thinking, you know, that this would last forever, you know, not a special story by any means. I think a lot of us have gone through that for sure.

Speaker 92629.8s - 2631.08s

Exactly. I'm still going through it.

Speaker 42631.28s - 2639.28s

Yeah. Well, live enough. Enjoy it. Enjoy that dream. I mean, it was such a special time, though, too.

Speaker 92639.86s - 2643.1s

What could you have done differently? More video parts? Film for different things?

Speaker 42643.22s - 2660.6s

Transfer videos. I got super lazy. This, that and the other? Okay. So, I mean different things, transfer videos, this, that, and the other? Okay. So, I mean, I'm the typical story of kind of you go, you skate all day long, and then you celebrate at night, and then you start celebrating more and skating less and celebrating more. And then I got hurt.

Speaker 02661.06s - 2684.14s

So I was already kind of a little bit of a downward trajectory, not producing as much, not, I don't know, just partying too much, you know, like I kind of fallen into a pit of depression and started having anxiety attacks. I was drinking to do that. And then it just kind of, you know, that kind of all will have a domino effect on your career.

Speaker 42684.28s - 2689.42s

100%. So, yeah, it was unfortunate that I got hurt.

Speaker 92690.38s - 2690.78s

What'd you do?

Speaker 42690.98s - 2699.52s

So I was trying, you're familiar with that little stage gap that Rodney Mullen Faky flipped off in second end smoke? It's at Balboa Park in San Diego GPE.

Speaker 32699.72s - 2700.06s

Oh, yeah.

Speaker 42700.38s - 2701.68s

Anyway, it's a pretty small stage.

Speaker 32701.76s - 2717.58s

I was trying to backside 360 PRODUCT off of it. And I'd always had this fear that it was a really hard trick to kick away. But I had it really good at one point. I was trying to relearn it. And it was kind of a self-manifesting prophecy because I kicked it out. My left foot landed.

Speaker 52718.92s - 2719.62s

It was this.

Speaker 42719.98s - 2724.62s

My left foot landed here. And it landed back on the board. So it went like that.

Speaker 52724.96s - 2726.46s

And my foot was, like, backwards.

Speaker 92727.46s - 2728.44s

She broke your ankle.

Speaker 52728.86s - 2729.98s

Yeah, well, I broke my leg.

Speaker 92730.06s - 2730.6s

Your leg.

Speaker 52731.18s - 2733.14s

So I broke my tibia, amphibia.

Speaker 92733.22s - 2735.12s

I had a spiral fracture all the way at my leg.

Speaker 52735.14s - 2735.42s

Oh.

Speaker 92736.18s - 2741.2s

I had to, I remember Scott Pazette PERSON was there, and he's like, I can't even look at that.

Speaker 42741.28s - 2743.9s

I'm going to go get your car, and he drives around.

Speaker 62744s - 2746s

And I don't remember this, but he says he drives back over

Speaker 42746s - 2748.56s

and I'm just standing there with my foot straight smoking a cigarette.

Speaker 92748.9s - 2753.4s

Like, I just smacked it back in place. Oh. He said, and you don't remember that.

Speaker 42753.74s - 2757.64s

I kind of remember a little bit of like, oh, my God, my foot's backwards.

Speaker 92757.76s - 2765.16s

I need to fix this. And tapping it, you could tell there was pressure, like pulling it, trying to put back into place. Oh, my God. It was like smack. Oh, I went in. I mean God. It was like smack. Oh.

Speaker 42767.68s - 2767.78s

I mean at that point you're in. You're doing.

Speaker 72768.12s - 2769.12s

You don't know what you're doing, right?

Speaker 42769.2s - 2769.82s

You're delusional.

Speaker 72769.94s - 2770.06s

Yeah.

Speaker 92770.28s - 2780.12s

It didn't hurt until after I had gotten x-rays. Right. Then the adrenaline started to wear off and I was like, can't get some painkillers? This is seriously hurting. Surgery?

Speaker 02780.2s - 2789.08s

They haven't given you painkillers yet. Yeah. So I had to have two plates put in. Put the mic closer, sorry. And 10 pins in my left leg.

Speaker 92789.48s - 2794.76s

So I was out for about, I was out for a good year.

Speaker 02795.34s - 2797.78s

And then I had to have the hardware removed.

Speaker 42798.48s - 2803.48s

And then that had to fill in. And then I had, you know, like to learn how to skate again kind of.

Speaker 92803.52s - 2806.08s

Was your physical therapy drinking? Yeah. I think a lot of people were of. Was your physical therapy drinking? Yeah.

Speaker 42806.08s - 2830.36s

I think a lot of people were doing that back then, too. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and this was actually right when my son was born too. So it was a good time. Okay.To be able to spend time with him as an infant, you know? And so a lot of the time I would stay home and watch him and was trying to learn like illustrator or, you know, do something productive during that time when I couldn't skateboard. That's where the art kind of started.

Speaker 92830.36s - 2838.88s

Yeah, yeah. A little bit? No, not yet. Oh, okay. So that was still, this is kind of me leading into wanting to be more involved in the shoe process.

Speaker 42838.96s - 2840.72s

So I wanted to learn how to start doing color ways.

Speaker 92840.8s - 2853.86s

So I would get the CAD files from Osiris ORG and learn an illustrator how to start doing color palettes and things like that and coloring up colors. Did you, because you ended up working for DC ORG, right? Did you end up doing anything with Osiris ORG at that point? No. No.

Speaker 42854s - 2855.6s

You were just getting files from them.

Speaker 92855.68s - 2857.54s

Hey, I want to just mess around with stuff.

Speaker 42858.48s - 2859.74s

And then, how can-

Speaker 92859.74s - 2867.54s

I mean, I really hadn't thought about the, like doing shoe design or footwear design back then.

Speaker 42867.64s - 2870.68s

You know, I was just really wanting to understand software at that point a little bit more.

Speaker 92870.86s - 2875.96s

So you were taking original stuff that had been done and kind of dissecting it and seeing how they kind of maybe put it together.

Speaker 42876.06s - 2877.02s

That's how kind of I learned.

Speaker 92877.02s - 2878.48s

It was a coloring book almost what I was doing.

Speaker 42878.64s - 2879.26s

Oh, got you.

Speaker 92879.26s - 2879.4s

Yeah.

Speaker 42879.5s - 2880.98s

I was just doing colorways at that point.

Speaker 92881.22s - 2881.96s

Did anyone teach?

Speaker 42882.08s - 2885.16s

Were you asking people for advice on things or just

Speaker 92885.16s - 2891.36s

on your own doing it? So I was working with Dave, Dave Ross, who goes by Persway ORG. He did,

Speaker 32891.66s - 2896.94s

he worked at DC ORG. He did like the original DC and dub logo and things like that. He's incredibly

Speaker 92896.94s - 2903.98s

talented. He was, he was the one that I would work on shoe designs with. So he would kind of help

Speaker 32903.98s - 2905.06s

onboard me, you know, like,

Speaker 42905.1s - 2909.6s

here's the tools we use. Here's, you know, the thinking that goes into how we design a shoe.

Speaker 82909.72s - 2913.12s

And a lot of times I'm like, we can, let's do this, you know, like I want to learn about it,

Speaker 42913.12s - 2918.48s

but I'm a skateboarder and you're a designer. So let's really put this ball in your court.

Speaker 02918.86s - 2924.86s

And I want to learn about it and help with the process and can design this with you. But, you know,

Speaker 92924.9s - 2926.12s

have a little bit of a guide

Speaker 02926.12s - 2928.26s

on that tour or on that trip.

Speaker 42928.94s - 2930.02s

So give us

Speaker 92930.02s - 2945.18s

a timeline really of what happened with Osiris ORG, you trying to mess with these illustrator files, and then I guess I'm assuming you left Osir ORG, your career with Osiris ORG came to anend and then you went to D.C. Kind of. Okay. So my career with Osiris ended, an end and then you went to D.C. GPE Kind of.

Speaker 42945.28s - 2945.52s

Okay.

Speaker 92946.26s - 2952.98s

So my career with Osiris ended, I would say, let's just say 2004, we'll say.

Speaker 42953.06s - 2953.32s

Okay.

Speaker 92953.54s - 2956.86s

So, and I didn't get a job with D.C. until 2011.

Speaker 42957.54s - 2957.8s

Oh.

Speaker 92958.3s - 2965.38s

So there was a time there where I was just kind of doing whatever I could to pay the bills for a while.

Speaker 62965.44s - 2967.94s

I was doing like lawn air-rating and stuff like that.

Speaker 92968.44s - 2973.98s

And then that's when I quit drinking and started skating again and really got like,

Speaker 42974.24s - 2980.1s

you know, rediscovered that love in it and talked to SpeedTech and that's when the 1031 PRODUCT happened.

Speaker 72980.1s - 2988.1s

So that during that period is when that happened and still hadn't even dabbled with like 3D art really at that point.

Speaker 42988.38s - 2994.1s

So before the Speed Tech thing happened in the 1031 PRODUCT, you had already come to terms with wrapping up your career?

Speaker 92994.52s - 2994.94s

Yeah.

Speaker 42995.1s - 2997.54s

You were already moving on to kind of.

Speaker 92997.6s - 3005.08s

I mean, I was trying to find ways, but I didn't also want to be that dude who just like was trying to hang on for dear life when

Speaker 43005.08s - 3018.1s

when I wasn't doing my part you know what I mean like it just felt a little bit insincere and but that's why it felt so good though when I started skating again like every day I was going to

Speaker 93018.1s - 3023.46s

audio park and skating again like I would go there all the time I was right down the street

Speaker 43023.46s - 3026.12s

right so you were, okay, interesting.

Speaker 93026.3s - 3031.22s

I'm just trying to figure out because that can be a dark time in a skateboarder's life too.

Speaker 43031.42s - 3039.02s

It's realizing that it's over. You need to move on. You don't have any skills. Maybe you're trying to develop the skills, but it's rough.

Speaker 93039.32s - 3040.04s

It's rough.

Speaker 73040.18s - 3042s

It's every skateboarder's worst nightmare.

Speaker 93042.3s - 3047.3s

And it could either be a gradual thing or it could just be in an instant, you know?

Speaker 73048.24s - 3050.02s

And I think they're better about it today.

Speaker 93050.92s - 3059.62s

You know, like there's people who are willing to help the newer generation usher them out of skateboarding or kind of help them a little bit along.

Speaker 43059.76s - 3061.96s

And there wasn't, I don't know if I think there was so much of that back then.

Speaker 93061.96s - 3064.3s

I mean, you got contracts kind of dictating that too sometimes.

Speaker 43064.3s - 3067.2s

So you know if you're going to be signing another contract or not.

Speaker 93067.3s - 3067.48s

Yeah.

Speaker 43067.76s - 3073.88s

You know, but with board companies, I mean, a lot of board companies do contracts now, which, I mean, that's new to me.

Speaker 63074.08s - 3074.32s

Yeah.

Speaker 93074.4s - 3079.54s

You know, so a lot of the contracts kind of can dictate, you know, where you stand these days.

Speaker 63079.58s - 3079.96s

That's a good.

Speaker 43080.22s - 3080.78s

That's good.

Speaker 83081.36s - 3083.14s

Because it was definitely a free-for-all back then.

Speaker 43083.18s - 3098.62s

For sure. When I was kind of when 1031 PRODUCT was, I don't know if it was really wrapping up or if I just felt like I had hung around for too long now at this point, but I really was starting to feel a need to figure out what I was going to do next. You know, like, while 1031 PRODUCT.

Speaker 93098.8s - 3099.22s

Yes. Okay.

Speaker 43099.42s - 3104.36s

Yeah. So I was on 1031 PRODUCT and I'm like, man, I couldn't live, I think was the other.

Speaker 93104.74s - 3106.26s

Well, it's the other main factor

Speaker 73106.26s - 3107.98s

with it too smaller brand

Speaker 93107.98s - 3109.5s

yeah right it's not this big

Speaker 43109.5s - 3111.62s

yeah okay so I'm

Speaker 93111.62s - 3113.94s

probably making a couple hundred dollars a month

Speaker 43113.94s - 3115.9s

at this point which is

Speaker 73115.9s - 3119.98s

obviously incredibly unrealistic to be able to survive on right

Speaker 43119.98s - 3158.3s

but so I got I got this great opportunity with Greg Witt PERSON who's an old pro-scapeboarder and ran good time skateboards for a while. So he started a skateboard company and I came on, or a skate park, sorry, design company and I came on to help him work on the skate park designs. And it was in partnership with this kind of playground company that would do some prefab stuff. And it was in partnership with this kind of playground company that would do some prefab stuff. But it gave me exposure to 3D software because I had to use the 3D software.It was taking the ramps and things like that, whatever, that they had made and moving me around and everything.

Speaker 93158.94s - 3159.54s

Because you're prefabbed. But it still was like, yeah.

Speaker 03159.74s - 3164.48s

But it still was something there that it gave me enough exposure to where it clicked.

Speaker 93164.64s - 3168.62s

And it was the next thing that I was all in on. Really?

Speaker 43168.84s - 3186.42s

Yeah. I mean, there's, in hindsight, there's a lot of similarities between 3D and in skateboarding. There's, I'm self-taught, you know, the, there's no, there's no limitation to what you can do. You're just bound by your own creativity and knowledge of how to use those tools.

Speaker 93186.72s - 3189.54s

But what opportunity did you see? Footwear.

Speaker 43189.78s - 3193.64s

That's really kind of where I was, you know, doing the skate park stuff. It wrapped up.

Speaker 73193.64s - 3206.62s

And then I was like, man, there's footwear seems like the most obvious use case where there'd be value for 3D stuff to be, to be done, you know, exploring colorways or even just making the mold for the

Speaker 43206.62s - 3212.44s

sole, like those require 3D files. So that was like, oh my God, that's what that's where I'm going.

Speaker 93212.98s - 3220s

And this is where you said around 2011, 2012, 2010, and then DC ORG was already using 3D technology

Speaker 43220s - 3232.24s

at this point? So they were. They were 3D printing shoes that were, it was like a shoe design software that was just, I don't know. Kind of primitive maybe.

Speaker 93232.24s - 3234.48s

They looked, they didn't look like real shoes.

Speaker 03234.9s - 3237.06s

They looked like they were on elastic, like a wrestling shoe.

Speaker 43237.18s - 3242.28s

They looked super fake. So then she had left, and right when she had left, I hit up Jeff Taylor PERSON. He had just started there.

Speaker 73242.64s - 3249.78s

I was like, hey, I've been working on this 3D software. I figured out how to make shoes in it. It seems like there would be value

Speaker 43249.78s - 3260.92s

in footwear for 3D. Like, do you guys have, is it possible that there would be any openings or any positions like that? And he's, the lady just quit like two weeks ago. How about that time?

Speaker 23260.92s - 3265.02s

Yeah. Dude, it was like, Jeff Taylor PERSON has been this, like, angel that saved me.

Speaker 93265.08s - 3266.28s

I feel like so many times

Speaker 23266.28s - 3266.94s

throughout my career

Speaker 93266.94s - 3267.9s

with giving me opportunity.

Speaker 23267.9s - 3269.58s

He is a very stand-up dude.

Speaker 93269.7s - 3269.88s

Yeah.

Speaker 23270.8s - 3271.86s

He's incredible.

Speaker 93272.06s - 3273.54s

So he got me an interview

Speaker 23273.54s - 3274.32s

and I came in there

Speaker 93274.32s - 3276.26s

with the portfolio that,

Speaker 23276.58s - 3277s

luckily,

Speaker 93277.7s - 3279.1s

no one even including me,

Speaker 23279.18s - 3280.28s

knew what we were looking at.

Speaker 93280.62s - 3281.28s

But they're like,

Speaker 73281.5s - 3282.94s

that's a 3D and that's a shoe,

Speaker 93283.02s - 3283.88s

so we're going to hire you.

Speaker 43284.18s - 3284.6s

Wow.

Speaker 53284.9s - 3290.2s

Yeah. It was literally like that. Like they had never seen it either. Yeah. Yeah. Because they're like, that's a 3D and that's a shoe. So we're going to hire you. Wow. Yeah. It was literally like that. Like they had never seen it either. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's like, we don't know what

Speaker 73290.2s - 3294.76s

this technology is. You clearly know it better than us because you made a shoe. We can't. So,

Speaker 53295.18s - 3300.06s

and we don't know how we could even implement this, but let's give it a shot. Yeah. So by the way,

Speaker 73300.1s - 3306.3s

take that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that behind him. That's actually a 3D printed shoe.

Speaker 33306.58s - 3307.88s

It's plastic with...

Speaker 93307.88s - 3308.46s

But it's heavy.

Speaker 33309s - 3309.78s

Yeah, it's plaster.

Speaker 73310.26s - 3310.68s

Plaster.

Speaker 93311.1s - 3311.38s

Okay.

Speaker 43312s - 3313.08s

So that's really loud.

Speaker 93313.24s - 3315.86s

Now, how does something like this?

Speaker 43315.9s - 3317.26s

So you took your 3D program.

Speaker 93317.4s - 3321.38s

Now, does D.C. GPE have to kind of conform to what you're doing now.

Speaker 43321.5s - 3324.94s

They're like, okay, well, if we need to print a shoe, how do we print this shoe?

Speaker 93325.02s - 3326.12s

Do we get a printer? Do we do, like, how... So they have to source it now. They're like, okay, well, if we need to print a shoe, how do we print this shoe? Do we get a printer?

Speaker 43326.4s - 3326.74s

Do we do?

Speaker 93326.82s - 3327.14s

Like, how?

Speaker 43327.6s - 3328.76s

So they have to source it now.

Speaker 93328.92s - 3333.32s

They already had some of the systems and process from that the prior 3D designer that was

Speaker 43333.32s - 3334.46s

there ahead of me. Okay.

Speaker 93334.76s - 3336.14s

They had invested in a 3D printer.

Speaker 43337.04s - 3354.82s

That is usually like one of the first no branders for a footwear brand because these, these tooling, the sole, is made by a mold. So that's done in Asia LOC most of the time where the mold factory is done. Sowear brand because these these tooling the sole is made by a mold so that's done in asia most of the time where the mold factory is done so they'll send these files back and forth you can look at them on screen but there's always something that it's going to take a while

Speaker 93354.82s - 3360.3s

for you to get it back exactly yeah so you 3d print it there you don't have to make them you

Speaker 43360.3s - 3364.46s

don't have to spend the money on opening a mold you know all these things it's so much time saving

Speaker 03364.46s - 3368.82s

it's so much um there's so many efficiencies in using 3D printing to.

Speaker 43368.9s - 3392.56s

And then we would also, if the designer wanted to make changes to the designer, make revisions based on what they had seen out of the 3D, then I would go into the file and make revisions to it and send it back so we could communicate that design intent in 3D and not just 2D. How long would it take to print a shoe back then? It's about, I had a headache. I think it's like two hours per inch. Okay.

Speaker 93392.64s - 3394.68s

Wow, that's pretty fast, actually.

Speaker 43394.68s - 3400s

Yeah. Because I feel like 3D printing back then was kind of archaic a little bit.

Speaker 93400s - 3400.32s

It was.

Speaker 43400.32s - 3414.94s

Compared to it now. But this was one of the original technologies, this plaster. And it was really easy because you're just injecting glue into these layers of powder. And then when it's done, it dries and you vacuum out all the leftover powder. And it goes back into that bin.

Speaker 93415.14s - 3419.68s

So it's like excavating. It's really crazy. Is it laying down colored powder too?

Speaker 43420.18s - 3428.38s

Is that how does it get the yellow on there? The ink. The ink is in the glue. The ink is in the glue. The ink is in the glue. And it's just like a traditional inkjet cartridge.

Speaker 93429.36s - 3461.66s

This episode is supported by ShakeJunt ORG. Yep, the company that keeps you going in these streets. Need that perfect grip for your flick? Bairings that just don't stop. Bolts to keep your trucks on tight. Look no further.ShakeJunt.com ORG has what you need. Grip bearings, bolts, skateboards, rails, riser pads, grip tape cleaner, T-shirts, sweatshirts, hats, and everything else in between.Treat yourself and save a couple bucks by entering 9 Club ORG at checkout. Yep, 20% off everything.Just enter 9Club ORG. N-I-N-E-C-L-U-B at shakejunt.com. Get there while you can. And it lays like a micron

Speaker 43461.66s - 3462.94s

of powder down each time.

Speaker 93463.18s - 3463.48s

Oh.

Speaker 43463.74s - 3465.52s

And then the glue.

Speaker 93465.74s - 3465.92s

Yeah.

Speaker 43466.38s - 3468.62s

So something like this would take, what, like three hours, four hours?

Speaker 93468.92s - 3469.96s

Probably a little bit more.

Speaker 43470.12s - 3470.9s

Maybe like six.

Speaker 93471.02s - 3471.54s

Six hours.

Speaker 43471.98s - 3472.38s

Yeah.

Speaker 83472.46s - 3472.92s

Can I see that?

Speaker 43473s - 3473.68s

Just like that really just like.

Speaker 93474.06s - 3479.02s

Yeah. Because like people that are watching or listening, I mean, this is like a. It's a hard.

Speaker 43479.18s - 3480.44s

It's a hard.

Speaker 93480.44s - 3481.34s

It's a hard plastic.

Speaker 43481.34s - 3485.48s

So it comes out and it's a little, it's kind of like a sugar cookie when it first comes out.

Speaker 93485.58s - 3485.94s

That's fine.

Speaker 03486.02s - 3486.5s

That was broken.

Speaker 93486.6s - 3486.96s

Yeah, I know.

Speaker 73488.18s - 3489.14s

And then we dip it,

Speaker 93489.22s - 3490.3s

you dip it in super glue.

Speaker 43490.98s - 3499.9s

And then you take it out and you kind of wash off a little bit and it all absorbs in there. And that's how it becomes rigid like that to where it just doesn't crush in your hands.

Speaker 93499.9s - 3503.76s

I mean, this speeds up the process. Absolutely.

Speaker 63504.38s - 3505.84s

And you're sending the 3D.

Speaker 43506.3s - 3511.66s

I mean, even I feel like even when I was seeing shoe design, you know, like a DVS,

Speaker 93511.66s - 3515.16s

and I feel like they were just, it was still like 2D paper.

Speaker 83515.4s - 3524.3s

It was just like drawings. That is. Right? That's still the process. Did you ever work with 3D? 3D later.Later. Later you did. Not with actually a plastic mold now.

Speaker 93524.44s - 3526.26s

No. Like you never like saw your shoe.

Speaker 83526.42s - 3528.48s

No. Hey, drone, here we go. We just printed this up.

Speaker 93528.56s - 3530.74s

I don't think they invested into that technology.

Speaker 83530.92s - 3535.1s

Do most, so do most people have this technology now or is this kind of not normal?

Speaker 33535.26s - 3542.12s

I would say pretty much every major footwear company would have a 3D printer to be able to look at the, at least to look at the souls.

Speaker 83542.28s - 3542.64s

Yeah.

Speaker 43542.96s - 3544s

Before you make the souls.

Speaker 83544.12s - 3547.6s

Before you start, okay, open the mold up. What year is this that you were doing this?

Speaker 43547.94s - 3549.7s

2011 about. Okay, so yeah.

Speaker 83549.7s - 3555.3s

So 3D printers. Yeah. This is just when, you know, you started to hear about 3D printing all over the news and stuff like that.

Speaker 93555.34s - 3557.98s

I mean, I'm sure those machines cost $20,000.

Speaker 43558.44s - 3567.64s

I think they're more than that. They're like 100. Yeah. Now they've come a little bit. Yeah. Oh, yeah.You can get one off the fish. 3999 on Amazon ORG. That thing was like the size of this table, though.

Speaker 83567.9s - 3569.26s

I mean, it was a huge machine.

Speaker 93569.48s - 3570.76s

They're a lot smaller now.

Speaker 83570.76s - 3570.88s

Yeah.

Speaker 93571.3s - 3573.86s

Well, there's tons of different types of different materials.

Speaker 83574.12s - 3576.36s

You've got ones that are like PLA plastics.

Speaker 93576.72s - 3579.5s

And I've even done some that are like little metal figurines.

Speaker 03579.68s - 3580.02s

Oh, wow.

Speaker 83580.32s - 3582.7s

So yeah, you can do a lot of different stuff with them now.

Speaker 03582.78s - 3584.04s

So interesting, man.

Speaker 93584.16s - 3585.92s

So is that one of the first shoes you did at DC ORG?

Speaker 43585.92s - 3587.18s

Yeah, so that's why I brought it.

Speaker 93587.24s - 3595.38s

Yeah, that was like, that was the first one. And I think we did four or five of them. And it was all of the, I don't remember what we called it.

Speaker 43595.38s - 3599.76s

It was like the Authentics PRODUCT, you know, like the classics. That was the Akira PRODUCT. It was a McKay ORG shoe.

Speaker 03600.32s - 3608.88s

And we did like Titan Deuce PRODUCT, a couple of the original shoes and printed them out and put them in like some cool black pelican briefcase and took it to some.

Speaker 83609.42s - 3612.72s

I don't remember who the big box retailer was that we were selling them to.

Speaker 03613.02s - 3614.56s

But it worked really well.

Speaker 83614.62s - 3624.48s

It was just such a cool way of being able to showcase it to the retailer and make them feel like a little bit special that you'd put in this extra work for them presentation of it.

Speaker 73624.48s - 3630.44s

I would assume also nowadays the factories have gotten a lot better too. So maybe

Speaker 43630.44s - 3637.04s

you don't need the 3D printing as much as maybe you did back then or maybe you need it more.

Speaker 73637.2s - 3644s

It's different because the uppers, so the uppers are always made flat. It's a shell pattern,

Speaker 93644s - 3646.7s

you know, and then they wrap it around a shoe last and sew it together.

Speaker 73647.22s - 3652s

So there's never a 3D version of a shoe never exists.

Speaker 53652.58s - 3653.04s

Right.

Speaker 93653.38s - 3658.9s

In all of the files that are combined to go through the manufacturing process.

Speaker 43659.7s - 3668.46s

So it's like, you know, we go through a separate additional phase of the process to make that upper in 3D so that you can, you can visualize it.

Speaker 93669.16s - 3669.62s

Okay.

Speaker 43669.78s - 3672.2s

Prior to making it and make any adjustments and things like that.

Speaker 63672.2s - 3672.48s

Sure.

Speaker 33672.82s - 3673.84s

It's interesting, man.

Speaker 43674.14s - 3679.24s

Do you think that being a student designer is a stressful job in any way?

Speaker 33679.86s - 3690.42s

I know there's probably the pros and cons, but like, I always feel like it's such like an artistic thing that it's probably so fun, especially when you see that outcome of it something. Yeah.

Speaker 43691.2s - 3706.3s

I think it very much depends on the company you work for, whether or not, you know, what do they value? Do they value like really cool designs or do they value super cheap speed to market, you know, like spin it or do you guys want to try to

Speaker 33706.3s - 3709.56s

come up with ways of designing that you've never even thought of before?

Speaker 73709.8s - 3710.62s

You know what I mean?

Speaker 33710.7s - 3717.22s

So it totally depends. I guess it depends what kind of designer you are compared to who you're working for.

Speaker 43717.3s - 3741.82s

Yeah. Right. And a lot of people, I mean, there's a lot of designers out there who just have to churn out stuff. You know, it's like a production factory almost. But, you know, there's a lot of designers who I think very much enjoy their jobs becausethey get to go in there and source inspiration and go in there and do concept designs. And, you know, it's an amazing environment. Being able to work with footwear designers and in that process is super, super fun.

Speaker 33742.36s - 3744.12s

Is it who is your, do you have a favorite designer?

Speaker 43745.62s - 3746.78s

Or designers, I guess. I think my favorite designer right now is Saf PERSON, super fun. Do you have a favorite designer? Or designers, I guess.

Speaker 33746.78s - 3749.86s

I think my favorite designer right now is Safa Sahin PERSON.

Speaker 43750.4s - 3751.78s

I think that's how you say his name.

Speaker 33752.02s - 3757.62s

He was at Nike for a while, and now he is the head of footwear design at Balmain ORG, which is

Speaker 03757.62s - 3759.16s

like a fashion brand out in Europe LOC.

Speaker 33760.02s - 3771.22s

Big fashion. He's incredible. He's a really, really good designer. But were you like very heavy when you first started designing shoes, were it all skate-based? Or was it all like outside of skateboarding?

Speaker 43771.22s - 3778.38s

Well, so initially it was all skateboarding just because that was my introduction to it.

Speaker 33778.52s - 3779.58s

Indra DC ORG. Yeah.

Speaker 43779.76s - 3805.18s

Exactly. That was my avenue in. That was the route that I could take. And I would have loved to have stayed in skateboarding, you know, and come up with, you know, skate innovations for footwear and stuff like that too. But then I think I like to get a little bit too weird for what skate is comfortable with. And that, so that's why I really kind of wanted to go explore other categories of footwear than just

Speaker 83805.18s - 3806.02s

skateboarding.

Speaker 43806.02s - 3809.68s

Although I still, I mean, my heart isn't skateboarding.

Speaker 83809.68s - 3814.5s

Like skateboarding and footwear, I feel like it's a very weird combination to be so passionate

Speaker 93814.5s - 3815.5s

about.

Speaker 83815.5s - 3819.9s

But like everything in my life has revolved around those two things, whether it's 3D or

Speaker 43819.9s - 3820.9s

actually participating.

Speaker 83820.9s - 3825.22s

Yeah, I mean, it goes hand to hand. You need, for your skateboard, you need shoes. Exactly. Yeah. So it makes sense. You said something-hand. You need, for your skateboard, you need shoes. Exactly, yeah.

Speaker 43825.22s - 3835.48s

So it makes sense. You said something very interesting earlier before we started talking about you got the job. But the parallel for skateboarding and whatever you're doing, you kind of, you make it

Speaker 83835.48s - 3838.84s

what it is, but having that skateboard mentality makes it that much more easier.

Speaker 03838.88s - 3839.06s

Yeah.

Speaker 83839.44s - 3843.98s

Because we just, no matter how much we fall, we get back up. Exactly.

Speaker 43844.52s - 3849.72s

You know, I thought that was really dope that you can have that correlation. Yeah.

Speaker 83849.86s - 3852.3s

And it took me a while to discover that there was that correlation.

Speaker 43852.6s - 3863.58s

But, you know, because I was just trying to figure out, I was, you know, I've been talking to people about 3D and skateboarding. And I just kind of keep asking myself, like, what is it that, like, makes me love this so much?

Speaker 63863.68s - 3866.16s

But it's just you can get lost in a world again

Speaker 83866.16s - 3873.46s

you know like and just you can get lost for hours and by yourself for sure and in wherever you

Speaker 93873.46s - 3881.18s

want to be and as we grow we definitely have different interests and hobbies and it hurts way less

Speaker 83881.18s - 3885.22s

to do 3D yeah right in Concording. Right.

Speaker 43886.9s - 3886.94s

But just that mentality, though, you know what I mean?

Speaker 93887.22s - 3887.34s

For sure.

Speaker 43888.72s - 3888.82s

Like, I'm going to figure this shit out.

Speaker 93889.72s - 3889.82s

I'm going to work it out.

Speaker 43890.68s - 3897.5s

And that's what I'm talking about. Again, it comes back to that skateboarding epiphany of like, why question it?

Speaker 93897.5s - 3898.04s

Let's do it.

Speaker 83898.06s - 3901.58s

Like, if I try this hard enough, I'm sure I can figure it out.

Speaker 93902.18s - 3903.96s

That's why I think skateboarders have the advantage.

Speaker 43904.2s - 3905.98s

And we are in so many different sectors and so many different industries these days that, you know, I can figure it out. That's why I think skateboarders have the advantage, and we are in so many different sectors

Speaker 83905.98s - 3911.1s

in so many different industries these days that, you know, we have friends all over now,

Speaker 43911.18s - 3911.72s

you know what I mean?

Speaker 73911.72s - 3915.46s

Or someone that knows, you know, you're like my favorite one.

Speaker 83915.52s - 3918.2s

I'm like, what you fucking are, look what the fuck you're doing, dude.

Speaker 73918.28s - 3922.7s

Like, you're in some gnarly industry now, you know, which is, I think it's so rad to see

Speaker 83922.7s - 3922.98s

you, man.

Speaker 03923.08s - 3925.84s

It's such, like, I'm stoked that

Speaker 83925.84s - 3928.12s

we're not limited in that sense. You know what I

Speaker 03928.12s - 3930.06s

mean? And, like, we're out there now.

Speaker 43930.44s - 3937.62s

I think that skateboarding attracts super interesting people. Yeah.

Speaker 03937.62s - 3939.94s

You know, and it's, even with, like,

Speaker 83940.12s - 3941.9s

the partying and drinking, you know, like, I'll

Speaker 73941.9s - 3943.28s

hear a lot of people say that

Speaker 83943.28s - 3954.46s

skateboarding will drive people to becoming addicts or alcoholics, but it's like, I think it's just that people with that mindset mentality are attracted to skateboarding. You know, it's like we want an escape, we want

Speaker 03954.46s - 3958.72s

something that we can just put everything into that we want to do and who we want to be.

Speaker 43959.34s - 3964.2s

I think you can say that about all sports. True, for sure. Yeah. I think it's more on a,

Speaker 83964.2s - 3969.12s

it's more spotlighted on in in skateboarding versus like baseball or

Speaker 43969.12s - 3970.84s

or basketball in that sense.

Speaker 83971.08s - 3971.26s

You don't know.

Speaker 43971.26s - 3971.98s

They are doing that.

Speaker 03972.04s - 3979.76s

They are doing that stuff. True. But they're doing it low key. A lot of our partying. Yeah. They're not out like, you know, they have a private room with, you know, with their people.

Speaker 43980s - 3985.16s

They're doing their thing. It's not, we broadcast it. We are out there. You know what I mean? So it's a lot broker than they are. Yeah. That's true, we broadcast it. We are out there. You know what I mean? So it's a little.

Speaker 93985.16s - 3987.16s

Also a lot broker than they are. Yeah. It's true.

Speaker 33987.88s - 3990s

We have more consequences. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 73990.16s - 3994.44s

What about, so when I, when I was trying to transitioning into what I want to do after

Speaker 43994.44s - 4002.62s

actually skateboarding, I remember like, yeah, I really like shoes. I want to design. I was like just drawing stuff. But I remember talking to Alf, Alfonso Rawls PERSON.

Speaker 04002.62s - 4011.96s

And I was like, because he does it as well. And I was like, hey, how do you, do I have to go to school? He's like, no, what do you mean? I'm like, when you think of that design stuff, you think of like you need to go do all these things,

Speaker 34012.6s - 4015.22s

what do you recommend? And for you, did you go to school?

Speaker 74015.54s - 4019s

So what would you recommend to someone who's looking into designing shoes?

Speaker 34019.06s - 4020.86s

How would you start going about that?

Speaker 74020.92s - 4022.96s

When you don't know anything about it?

Speaker 34023.54s - 4025.36s

I mean, I think that in this day and age,

Speaker 44025.38s - 4026.38s

you just do research.

Speaker 34026.62s - 4042.02s

There's so much information available out there that whatever you're interested and you can figure out what you would need to do to do it. I know a lot of footwear designers that I've worked with or know in the past come from automotive design because there's not a lot of footwear design courses out there.

Speaker 44042.12s - 4051.78s

So they will go into like car design traditionally or some boat design. And then they'll end up in footwear because of the lack of opportunity of jobs in like the car design.

Speaker 04051.86s - 4052.66s

Oh, interesting.

Speaker 64052.96s - 4057.08s

But I think, you know, like as things evolve and people realize opportunities for like,

Speaker 34057.24s - 4059.34s

clearly there's a need for that.

Speaker 44059.5s - 4075.66s

So there's like people opening up shoe schools and stuff. But to be a footwear designer, you don't have to know a 3D by any means. You know, like even just hand sketching and throw it over to a 3D designer that can then understand your intent and be able to translate that into a 3D design.

Speaker 64077.82s - 4081.08s

So there's a lot of things that make that cake.

Speaker 44081.38s - 4081.86s

You know what I mean?

Speaker 04082.32s - 4088s

But I think that figuring out if you're passionate about it is the first

Speaker 44088s - 4098s

thing, and if you are, then I would say do some research on it and look into like the art center here in L.A. GPE is the one of, that's where almost every footwear designer has come out of their automotive design program.

Speaker 74098.28s - 4100.64s

Oh, okay. Wow, that's crazy.

Speaker 94100.64s - 4102.5s

So right here, and I think it's Pasadena GPE, I think.

Speaker 44102.62s - 4104.3s

Okay, yeah. Yeah. But also

Speaker 94104.3s - 4107s

everything's readily available to us now, right?

Speaker 44107.34s - 4113.68s

You got Illustrator, you got Photoshop PRODUCT, you got 3D CAD programs that are readily available and cheap, too.

Speaker 94113.84s - 4113.98s

Yeah.

Speaker 44114.38s - 4115.52s

You got Ted Tucks PRODUCT.

Speaker 34115.68s - 4116.32s

Exactly.

Speaker 94116.72s - 4117.82s

You got paper.

Speaker 44118.12s - 4119.08s

You got crayons.

Speaker 94119.28s - 4119.9s

You got paper.

Speaker 24120.04s - 4120.58s

You got pen.

Speaker 94120.7s - 4121.82s

You got YouTube ORG.

Speaker 24122s - 4127.58s

If you want to become an artist, a recording artist, Spotify ORG, you can put your stuff up there.

Speaker 84127.88s - 4128.98s

Everything's readily available.

Speaker 04129.1s - 4130.96s

You can do anything you want and put your stuff out there.

Speaker 84131.38s - 4131.72s

Instagram ORG.

Speaker 94132.42s - 4134.66s

I mean, you don't know who's looking at your stuff. Yeah. Right?

Speaker 84135.08s - 4136.82s

That's very true. You know, it's very helpful right now, too?

Speaker 94137.3s - 4137.66s

AI.

Speaker 84137.96s - 4139s

AI, there you go.

Speaker 94139.62s - 4141.4s

I actually just, I'm going to design some shoes tonight.

Speaker 84141.9s - 4142.14s

Right.

Speaker 44143.04s - 4144.08s

I'll send you a link.

Speaker 84144.16s - 4146.2s

I've got about 10,000 images.

Speaker 44146.44s - 4148s

Oh yeah? I'm so addicted to just

Speaker 84148s - 4149.9s

sitting there and making sneakers

Speaker 44149.9s - 4152.28s

on AI. Because it's insane.

Speaker 94152.4s - 4154.04s

If you tell it enough

Speaker 44154.04s - 4156.2s

information, it can extract what you're thinking.

Speaker 94156.2s - 4158.18s

True, but you can also say, change this little

Speaker 44158.18s - 4160.08s

one, run it again. Change this little part

Speaker 84160.08s - 4180.74s

run it again. Generate it, whatever. And it doesn't understand necessarily the formal design rules. You know what I mean? But it somehow will come up with these things that are, that break the rules but work so well that it's like,you know, I feel like that's what 3D also offers is this unique perspective for inspiration that you wouldn't get drawing.

Speaker 44181.74s - 4187.6s

You know, they're just aids in shifting your perspective into discovering something new

Speaker 04187.6s - 4193.22s

that you wouldn't have thought of or sometimes even be able to communicate with a 2D drawing.

Speaker 44193.22s - 4195.92s

Are we coming into a world now where we're just cheating?

Speaker 94196.66s - 4197.02s

Basically.

Speaker 44197.32s - 4198.34s

Well, it's not cheating.

Speaker 94198.52s - 4199.42s

It's a new tool.

Speaker 44199.68s - 4200.46s

Well, like photography.

Speaker 84200.46s - 4201.42s

If you look at it like that.

Speaker 44201.54s - 4202.42s

Photography, right?

Speaker 84202.48s - 4203.58s

It's a lost art, right?

Speaker 04204.08s - 4205.32s

So to speak, right? It used to be filmed. You had to develop it. There was a process. You almost had to go like that. Photography, right? It's a lost art, right? So to speak, right?

Speaker 74205.36s - 4209.1s

It used to be film. You'd have to develop it. There was a process. You almost had to go to school.

Speaker 04209.2s - 4216.28s

You had to learn. You had to have somebody to teach you. It was a whole thing. Anybody could pick up a camera now. I got my iPhone PRODUCT. I got this.I got that. You know, is AI.

Speaker 44216.96s - 4225s

Well, what was before that? Painting. And then cameras came around. They're like, no one's going to be a painter ever again. True. Right.True. And now AI comes around. I mean,

Speaker 94225.26s - 4230.4s

you're, but it's making, it's creating a lot more people that can just instantly do something.

Speaker 44230.44s - 4256.5s

True. Totally. But I think, I mean, I have some very strong kind of ideas of where this is all headingand things like that based on understanding of 3D and AI and things like that and how it can kind of all come together at the end. But right now it still requires a director. You have to tell it what to make. Sure.You know what I mean? Like that computer, we're just basically hijacking its imagination. Yeah.

Speaker 84256.88s - 4260.94s

And it's hard to see the parallel because we don't plug monitors into our head to be able to see what you're thinking.

Speaker 44261.08s - 4262.34s

But that's really kind of what we're doing.

Speaker 84262.34s - 4262.62s

Yeah.

Speaker 44262.78s - 4263.8s

And we're telling it what to think.

Speaker 84264.04s - 4264.42s

Yeah.

Speaker 44286.46s - 4290.82s

So at this point, it's just still a creative tool that you can, you know, throw out like an idea. It'll come up with something wild. You can pull like a little piece that's really cool from it and incorporate that into a design. Oh, wow. But being able to like, you know, a lot of the images, I'll find like optical illusions in them still where like this curve turns into like a lamp in the background or something. So it's not like you can just take an AI image and go manufactured at this point. Okay.

Speaker 84291.02s - 4297.08s

Got to fine tune it. Yeah. It needs a human touch at this point. But who knows where it's all going. Totally.

Speaker 94297.66s - 4297.84s

Yeah.

Speaker 84298.26s - 4298.5s

Yeah.

Speaker 94298.68s - 4314.06s

Once it starts giving the ideas, then that'll get interesting. And you know a lot about this art. We'll get into that in a second, though, because I want to bring it back when you were saying that you wanted to stay in skateboarding, but you ended up venturing off, you ended up working for Nike ORG.

Speaker 44314.6s - 4317.34s

But before that, didn't you go over to Vans ORG for a little bit?

Speaker 94317.42s - 4318.54s

Weren't you at Vans ORG for a while?

Speaker 44318.72s - 4331.72s

Yeah. So when I went over to, this is another interesting part of just the chaos of me learning 3D and, like, having no idea. It was, yeah, it was kind of a disaster for a while because I got there and I had learned Cinema 4D, which we had talked about, which is like Blender PRODUCT.

Speaker 94331.96s - 4333.74s

No, it's, sorry, DC ORG.

Speaker 64333.86s - 4333.96s

Okay.

Speaker 44334.74s - 4335.96s

Sorry, I'll try to be more specific.

Speaker 94336.04s - 4356.02s

No, no, no. I just. So, yeah, when I got at DC, I had learned Cinema 40 PRODUCT well enough to make something that looked like a shoe on paper when you printed it out. And then what they needed, though, was someone who used CAD programs, which are, so Cinema 40 and Blender PRODUCT are VFX. It's the intent of that tool is to make something that exists on screen.

Speaker 44356.14s - 4358.62s

You can't print it out. It's never meant to be manufactured.

Speaker 94359.16s - 4361.64s

Yeah, we've got textures on it that you can only see on a computer.

Speaker 44362.22s - 4401.14s

And then Rhino and other things like that, like AutoCatter PRODUCT intended for manufacturing. Totally different technology. It's like different mathematics even behind it. So when I got there, I realized that they needed someone to do that stuff. So it was like a crash course on like, okay, YouTube, here we go. Like I literally just sit there all night reading the manuals and watching YouTube ORG.And it was just like skateboarding, though. Again, you know, it's like all I could think about. And I would be driving home, watching tutorials, thinking about different ways to try to do things, solve problems. Like, it was so exciting because it was just like, it's like entering a new level on a video game where it's just like,oh my God, there's all this new stuff to explore that you hadn't had access to in the past.

Speaker 94401.46s - 4406.62s

Right, right. And then when you, what happened with D.C. GPE? Why did you go to Vance ORG?

Speaker 44406.78s - 4433.38s

So a lot of my interest was in that visualization side of things. So I learned a lot of, a lot of what has turned out to be super crucial knowledge in footwear industry moving forward, you know? But I don't know. I just, I got, DC ORG was kind of going a little bit zoomies, you know, like, and I just felt like they weren't going in like super innovative skate direction anymore.And that's what I was, that's why I love DC ORG.

Speaker 94433.62s - 4434.78s

Creativity. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 44434.92s - 4498.78s

So they were really pushing the envelope back in the day, and that's what I loved about them so much. And that kind of went away. And Vans ORG had this opportunity where I could go over there and focus more in like the VFX side of things. So like the visualization side. So we would do colorways and renderings because it's vans, you know, like they crank out colorways and new materials of existing shoes.We did a lot of that. But that really wasn't like pushing my creative buttons enough. I wanted to do more, just, I wanted to, no, like help redefine footwear design,you know, like we all come into skateboarding, I think, and with just these big dreams of what we're going to do. So I wanted to do something that was really going to helptransform footwear industry. And then there was an opportunity at Nike ORG came up where I initially went over there to, I worked with a team, uh, digital product creationand we had like UX designers whatnot. And what I was focused on was coming up with a way to create a 3D tool for product designers to take advantage of, of 3D stuff without having to

Speaker 64498.78s - 4504.48s

know how to do 3D. And it turns out that was like an initiative of like all these footwear

Speaker 44504.48s - 4508.36s

brands at the time. And I think they realized it was just way more challenging than they thought.

Speaker 94508.52s - 4510.44s

I was going to say, how do you do that?

Speaker 44510.56s - 4514.16s

Well, eventually, I mean, I think at this day and age, you could do it with Unreal PRODUCT. Okay.

Speaker 94514.32s - 4519.16s

Because you can customize interfaces so easily in there that you don't like, that's where it's all going.

Speaker 44519.46s - 4521.62s

You don't need to know 3D when you can use sliders.

Speaker 74522.82s - 4529.12s

And when, and now there's so much less like modeling where you're going in and touching

Speaker 44529.12s - 4544.5s

like a point in moving it. And there's more of this kind of computational algorithmic design where you're setting parameters and sliding things and moving it around. So I think that, I don't remember where I was going with that, but I think that that's

Speaker 94544.5s - 4546.72s

more innovation over at Nike ORG than it was advanced.

Speaker 44546.72s - 4563.22s

Yes. Yes. So that was super intriguing to me because I always thought it would be really cool to figure out, like, you know, to really get a deep understanding of how 3D software works too and understanding, you know, like how you can customize it and make all these cool things. And I really didn't understand that until then.

Speaker 94563.34s - 4567.5s

How did a job like that present itself to you? I got hit up through LinkedIn ORG because

Speaker 44567.5s - 4583.82s

there's not a lot of us. There's not a lot of like 3D footwear people out there in the world. And I was already working at vans. So I had visualization experience. I had footwear experience. I had 3D experience. Probably somewhat culturally relevant to with like skateboarding and things like that.

Speaker 64584.44s - 4596.9s

So he pulled me in. That was quickly kind of scrapped, which is pretty common of big businesses that are constantly piloting new things, trying things out, things don't work. So I was absorbed by the 3D design team.

Speaker 44597.56s - 4612.02s

And that was like, that's when I found my home. Like that was my like tribe, you know. So I came into there and I was overseeing a team of 3D designers. There was five of them, I think. And they were in like the wild lifestyle categories.

Speaker 94612.46s - 4618.26s

What year was this? This was 2017.

Speaker 44619.46s - 4619.74s

Okay.

Speaker 94619.94s - 4621.74s

And you moved up to Portland. Yeah.

Speaker 44622.06s - 4622.28s

Okay.

Speaker 94622.28s - 4625.72s

So when I moved up to Portland, it was for Nike, it was 2016.

Speaker 44626.06s - 4626.3s

Okay.

Speaker 94626.64s - 4633.84s

And I started at that, in that weird kind of job that transitioned into the 3D design team.

Speaker 44634.06s - 4635.14s

I oversaw a team there.

Speaker 94635.44s - 4638.76s

And it was, it was like, it was the greatest time.

Speaker 44638.76s - 4643s

Like, we were, because we were, I oversaw the team that worked on, like, collaborations.

Speaker 94650.24s - 4650.3s

ISPA, which was like this super almost like avant-garde side of footwear that Nike ORG does.

Speaker 44654.16s - 4654.28s

So it was really fun getting to work with super creative people,

Speaker 04655.62s - 4655.98s

but also explore new technologies.

Speaker 44657.52s - 4682.02s

And for the first time, I was working with other people that did 3D2. So that was the other thing I forgot to mention is I was really kind of on my own, this whole journey, learning watching YouTube and great scalecale gorilla or whatever these tutorials are online, just trying to keep going until I got to the point where I felt like I was like caught up with 3D. And then now you have people who will do the same thing.

Speaker 94682.12s - 4684s

You found a family. Yeah. Essentially.

Speaker 44684.22s - 4688.1s

It's like speak the same language. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Essentially. It's like speak the same language. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 94688.22s - 4689.24s

It's like skateboarding.

Speaker 44689.4s - 4696.26s

Sure. You know, and we all like, hey, get advice on how to use a certain technique or a tool or super similar.

Speaker 94696.98s - 4707s

So you were, you brought a couple things down there, which I think is interesting from concept to...

Speaker 44707s - 4714.94s

So I think this one is really good at showing what an entry-level 3D model would look like.

Speaker 94714.94s - 4715.44s

Okay.

Speaker 44715.44s - 4716.64s

You know, there's no stitching on it.

Speaker 94716.64s - 4717.6s

There's no details on it.

Speaker 44717.6s - 4719.24s

Sure. This is the DC ORG one.

Speaker 94719.24s - 4732.04s

And then, yeah, so that was where I started and then eventually moved on to be able to do things like this, where... You see the stitch the imperfections are the perfection and this is a 3d print correct of a Nike ORG uh

Speaker 44732.04s - 4738.42s

airmax okay yeah wow I almost could put that thing on yeah it looks like it yeah I mean in that

Speaker 94738.42s - 4742.92s

when I was talking about what I disliked about that software they had at DC ORG back in the day

Speaker 44742.92s - 4747.04s

it was so perfect that it didn't look real.

Speaker 94747.64s - 4748.52s

It looked like icing.

Speaker 44748.92s - 4751.3s

This kind of does have little imperfections a little bit.

Speaker 94751.3s - 4751.58s

Yeah, a little bit.

Speaker 44751.58s - 4752.6s

Yeah, like it looks real.

Speaker 94752.8s - 4759.74s

Those are the things that will trigger your brain to look at it as real and then make decisions on it based on thinking that it's a real thing.

Speaker 44759.84s - 4763.4s

You're also going to a company that almost has infinite, like, resources.

Speaker 94763.4s - 4763.44s

True.

Speaker 44763.58s - 4764.38s

Resources, yeah.

Speaker 94764.7s - 4767.1s

It's also like working for the government at that size.

Speaker 44767.26s - 4769.24s

The budgets get spread thin.

Speaker 94769.76s - 4770.2s

Okay.

Speaker 44770.36s - 4772.84s

I mean, that place is gigantic.

Speaker 94772.92s - 4773.62s

It's a campus.

Speaker 44773.82s - 4777.6s

I mean, it is a massive campus with tens of thousands of employees.

Speaker 54777.9s - 4778.1s

Yeah.

Speaker 44778.5s - 4780.08s

You were going to the office every day there?

Speaker 54780.34s - 4780.66s

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 44780.86s - 4781.14s

Wow.

Speaker 34781.22s - 4783.48s

Yeah. See Michael Jordan PERSON spot and everything like that.

Speaker 94783.48s - 4784.76s

Yeah, I saw Jordan PERSON.

Speaker 44785.1s - 4800.92s

Oh, really? Yeah. Did you have to work? Do you work with anyone like that. Yeah, I saw Jordan PERSON. Really? Yeah. Did you have to work? Do you have worked with anyone like that there? No. Or she-wise or whatever?I got to work with a couple big fashion designers. And Tinker Hatfield, which he was like the Jordan PERSON designer.

Speaker 64801.12s - 4801.68s

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 44802.8s - 4810.82s

But other than that, no, I saw people around. Like, I saw Jordan PERSON around. I ran into Koston and some guys one day.

Speaker 74811s - 4811.28s

Oh, sick.

Speaker 34811.28s - 4816.04s

I was super funny. I was like, wow. Yeah. Do they realize that you had worked there?

Speaker 44816.28s - 4832.5s

I doubt it. I don't think so. I think, I don't know. I mean, probably, actually, because I knew the guys in SB ORG. I mean, I, it's not like, I'm confident they were sitting around talking about me one day, but it's possible that he knew I was working there.

Speaker 34832.9s - 4835.88s

Now, when you hear about skateboarders working at places, you know, people hear about it.

Speaker 84836.18s - 4838.54s

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. How long?

Speaker 94838.54s - 4839.9s

Those all the skaters that work there, man.

Speaker 34840s - 4842.62s

They get a little rundown and Chad Knight PERSON's over there.

Speaker 94843.22s - 4844.42s

How long does this take to print?

Speaker 44845.24s - 4845.66s

Uh, same. But it's six hours. How long does this take to print? Same.

Speaker 84846.32s - 4847.1s

Six hours.

Speaker 44847.68s - 4849.28s

Height is what it's dictated by.

Speaker 84849.44s - 4852.46s

So about, I don't know what I said, like two hours per inch about.

Speaker 44852.58s - 4852.76s

Sure.

Speaker 94852.88s - 4853.08s

Okay.

Speaker 44853.38s - 4853.68s

Wow.

Speaker 94853.9s - 4854.66s

So interesting.

Speaker 44855.22s - 4856.76s

And there's rubber technologies.

Speaker 94856.92s - 4860.68s

And you see like Adidas ORG has like the 3D printed soles and things like that now.

Speaker 44860.68s - 4863.28s

So the technology is kind of going all different ways.

Speaker 94863.68s - 4866.6s

And then you also have something there, which I find the most interesting,

Speaker 44866.84s - 4868.42s

was it looks like nothing.

Speaker 94868.54s - 4873.24s

It looks like something I would find outside and kick down the street because it looks like a rock.

Speaker 44873.6s - 4873.8s

Yeah.

Speaker 94874.04s - 4875.04s

So the gray one.

Speaker 44876.12s - 4881.32s

So the gray one, these are the same thing. One's just, they're printed with different materials and I painted one. Okay.

Speaker 94882.6s - 4884.12s

So what are you doing with this?

Speaker 44884.12s - 4885.62s

So what is this? Okay. So this are you doing with this? So what is this?

Speaker 94885.62s - 4892.24s

Okay. So this is the next devolution of how we use or I apply 3D to footwear.

Speaker 44892.24s - 4984.4s

First, it was very simply manufacturing, translating designs. I'm literally just acting as a translator of the designer to the manufacturer. a translator of the designer to the manufacturer. And then I got to where we were working with designers to understand their ideas and try to explore in 3D so that they could, you know, just kind of break the monotony of things. But I always wanted to pull it forward further and further. You know, 3D traditionally in footwear companies is used as like an engineering tool or an operations type of thing where you're supporting them, but you're not really contributing creatively.I'm like, why not? It doesn't make any sense. It's like there's so much creative opportunity with these new tools that are popping up. It's just, I think, perception of businesses is that these tools were created for this purpose. That's how they're used. So what I wanted to do, and a lot of this too was me really wanting my team to feel likethey were fulfilled with their job and that they were having an opportunity to creatively contribute to the process because I think a lot of them just felt like they were there to support. They didn't get recognition in anything. So we see all in every season starts with design leadership will go and they'll the source. We'll figure out what's cool, you know, what what design look they want for that season.And they'll put together a bunch of image boards, a bunch of stuff to be able to communicate to the design team. This is what we want stuff to look like.

Speaker 74986.08s - 4987.96s

Okay. Designers will go off then usually to Pinterest ORG and they'll source the same

Speaker 44987.96s - 5036.72s

images that every other designer, every other company has sourced for every other season over the past 10 years. Same cars, same umbrella design, same hairblower. You know, it's likethey're all just finding these little hints of inspiration that they want to be able to pull from to be able to apply it to a shoe to create something new. So, but we have all these tools that can create novel forms that could be used as inspiration. So that was what I proposed then was that the team come together and we create a bunch of novel inspirational content for the company to be able to then use these as their kind of jump off point for design. So you're starting the design with shapes.This kind of, a point of differentiation from the competition from the very beginning of the process. Right.

Speaker 75037.14s - 5041.74s

And that's where I was like, this is an opportunity that no one's really even looking at yet.

Speaker 95041.74s - 5047.52s

So with this gray one right here, you're just using shapes and stacking it on top of each other

Speaker 75047.52s - 5051.6s

and then kind of like shaping it into the shape of a shoe, essentially,

Speaker 45051.8s - 5053.06s

but you're kind of like...

Speaker 95053.06s - 5057.02s

So how this works is this started out...

Speaker 45057.02s - 5057.94s

Sorry, it's really low.

Speaker 95057.94s - 5058.36s

Oh, you're good.

Speaker 45058.5s - 5060.58s

It starts with a basic foot form.

Speaker 95060.86s - 5061.06s

Okay.

Speaker 75061.08s - 5061.62s

Is what we do.

Speaker 95062.26s - 5068.86s

It's usually pretty stylized. It won't look like... I don't know if you're familiar with shoe lasts where it's the plastic foot form.

Speaker 05069.1s - 5072.28s

They're not very sexy. They're kind of just whatever.

Speaker 45072.74s - 5121.76s

Gotcha. We would create with, we would start with a host shape, we would call it. And it was just a shoe shape that was something stylized. It looked cool. Then the team would create a bunch of other forms that were just random, kind of art kind of designed, you know, likedifferent transitions between forms and, you know, cutting out holes in different places. And then I came up with a way to be able to take all of these different shapes and bring them into ashape blending software, which is traditionally used as I stand for character creation, video games. So you know, you want different features on it. So you got a blend between them. So we brought them in and came up with a system where designers and three designers could blend between these shapes and come up with something that was like, oh, that's cool.

Speaker 55121.94s - 5122.66s

You know, like so.

Speaker 95122.66s - 5124.38s

And then we could also randomize it.

Speaker 55124.44s - 5127.94s

So you get a thousand, 10,000 different shapes instantly. So you're using not was like, oh, that's cool. You know, like so. And then we could also randomize it. So you get a thousand, 10,000 different shapes instantly.

Speaker 95128.18s - 5134.38s

So you're using not only like your own vision, but also like the computer's vision as well.

Speaker 45135.38s - 5145.68s

Yeah, that's, yeah, exactly. Trying to again leverage the, the creative power of the technology and not just using it for what it was intended for.

Speaker 95146.04s - 5150.94s

So you guys come up with something like this and then what's the final result? You got the

Speaker 45150.94s - 5158.46s

final result back there? This is the one that I have an example for. So it starts like this.

Speaker 65158.46s - 5163.34s

Then a designer, you know, we'll probably sit there and look at it for a very long time figuring out

Speaker 95163.34s - 5165.98s

inspiration for it, start sketching.

Speaker 65166.28s - 5171.54s

Maybe like have a screen grab of this on their monitor and start sketching over and finding what forms are in there.

Speaker 45171.66s - 5171.94s

Okay.

Speaker 75172.32s - 5175.8s

And then they'll do CAD, tech packs, sketches, whatever.

Speaker 45175.98s - 5183.32s

And then this was the result of the shoe that was born from this shape.

Speaker 95183.32s - 5185.84s

It has writing on it because everybody signed that when you left.

Speaker 45185.84s - 5194.8s

Yeah, that's when I left. Yeah. It was like, I'm sure everybody that I worked with, the Nike ORG is going to be so exhausted with hearing me talk about this project again.

Speaker 95195.68s - 5205.42s

Right, here we go. Fast forward. So, I mean, it's amazing. I mean, I can see the resemblance, maybe the shape of the shoe, but I don't know. I can't. You can see so here. I can see the resemblance, maybe the shape of the shoe, but I don't know. I can't.

Speaker 45205.48s - 5209.76s

You can see the back panel right there.

Speaker 05209.9s - 5210.06s

Yeah.

Speaker 45210.2s - 5217.22s

There's some of the, I think it's this side, actually. Yeah, you can see some of the inspiration of the shapes.

Speaker 95217.58s - 5222.16s

And then if you turn it, you can see that it's inspired, the kind of cut down the middle.

Speaker 75222.66s - 5224.3s

A lot of these little striations.

Speaker 65225.5s - 5228.76s

We're inspired by these little stretching from this.

Speaker 75228.88s - 5230.1s

And these, again, these weren't intentional.

Speaker 95230.24s - 5233.12s

They were just kind of results of the process.

Speaker 75234.44s - 5236.64s

Yeah, again, it's not literal.

Speaker 95236.78s - 5239.14s

It's not like we made a shoe that looks like this.

Speaker 65239.68s - 5240.06s

You know what I mean?

Speaker 95240.12s - 5245.96s

But it's this, I think, it helped us arrive at a unique place that we probably

Speaker 75245.96s - 5247.82s

wouldn't have arrived at without using

Speaker 45247.82s - 5250.12s

that software. That is a

Speaker 75250.12s - 5251.58s

unique shoe. Right?

Speaker 45251.92s - 5252.86s

Yes. And I love it.

Speaker 75253.42s - 5254.18s

So is that

Speaker 45254.18s - 5257.28s

is the gray one based off of style

Speaker 95257.28s - 5259.16s

and like design and then the

Speaker 35259.16s - 5261.32s

pink one is the way it fits?

Speaker 95261.74s - 5263.64s

Is that it had nothing to do with it?

Speaker 35264.28s - 5268.5s

It was just a similar example of the same process that we had used on this one.

Speaker 45268.6s - 5268.88s

Okay.

Speaker 35269.6s - 5279.7s

So, again, human development along with computer development arrived at this shoe here.

Speaker 45280.3s - 5281.64s

Which, what was this shoe called?

Speaker 95281.82s - 5282.64s

The Fontanka PRODUCT.

Speaker 45282.94s - 5283.64s

You sold it.

Speaker 95283.76s - 5284.46s

It came out.

Speaker 45284.86s - 5285.02s

Okay. Did you personally design that one? No. No. Or was your team that you, Fontanca ORG. You sold it. It came out. Okay.

Speaker 35285.26s - 5286.84s

Did you personally design that one?

Speaker 95286.94s - 5287.1s

No.

Speaker 35287.1s - 5287.38s

No.

Speaker 45287.38s - 5292.54s

There was a product designer that worked with a 3D designer on my team,

Speaker 35292.78s - 5294.8s

Hannah PERSON, who was amazing.

Speaker 95295.26s - 5299.56s

And Pavlina, who was her manager, who was amazing, helped me work with Kirstina Garrig PERSON,

Speaker 35299.7s - 5303.8s

who was an amazing designer, who's now at Lulu Lemon ORG, overseeing their footwear.

Speaker 95306.06s - 5306.22s

And she designed this.

Speaker 45312.1s - 5322.18s

So again, it's also about finding willing partners who are wanting to take that extra time and explore something new and kind of take a risk instead of just like I have work to do. I'm going to get this stuff done. Or I'm not a 3D person. That's a threat. I don't like that stuff.

Speaker 95322.32s - 5323.72s

There's some of that sometimes too.

Speaker 45323.72s - 5330.02s

Got to have somebody that wants to explore. Yeah, exactly. So you come up with this, right? You

Speaker 95330.02s - 5338.82s

3D printed. It looks crazy. It doesn't look like any issue I've ever seen. It's square in the back. It's got this ledge here. It's got all kinds of weird stuff. This thing's popping out on the

Speaker 35338.82s - 5345.56s

side. Right? No, but who do you take that to now? And you're like, this is what we came up with.

Speaker 95345.68s - 5348.1s

We'd like to run this and put it into production.

Speaker 35348.4s - 5349.42s

So how does that work?

Speaker 45349.98s - 5351.48s

It first has to be briefed.

Speaker 95351.48s - 5356.06s

There was a shoe probably called the Fontenka that had an empty box in it at the beginning of the season.

Speaker 45356.78s - 5370.98s

They said, here's our target customer. You know, we wanted to reach this audience. It's this age group. It's this demographic. They're into this and this. The product designer then goes and tries to source inspiration that they think that that

Speaker 65370.98s - 5378.74s

consumer is going to be interested in. So initially, I think Fontenka is a Russian NORP town where there

Speaker 45378.74s - 5404.06s

was initially a lot of like 90s rave scene. It was super big in that area. So they pulled a lot of, like, 90s rave scene. It was super big in that area. So they pulled a lot of inspiration from that, I think, for the brief for what they wanted. And then that kind of opened up an opportunity to do something that was a little bit more outlandish and push the envelope a little bit because it was a sportswear shoe to. So it wasn't like performance.We didn't have to worry about, you know,

Speaker 95404.1s - 5416.84s

how it was going to work on the court and things like that. I guess my question is like, was there ideas that you brought to the table that whoever the higher ups are said, no, we don't like that.

Speaker 45416.88s - 5422.38s

We're not going to run with that. Like, there has to be, like, it takes about 50 designs to get here.

Speaker 95423.7s - 5426.48s

And approvals to move forward in those designs.

Speaker 45426.78s - 5471.54s

There are steps through every part of the process. There's initial design briefing. Then the designers will go off. And again, they'll source their inspiration. They'll pull that stuff onto boards and do sketches. Then they will present that stuff back to design leadership and a design review and say,here's where we're thinking about heading with this. I think it's usually just the individual designer presenting it, but sometimes that color and material will present with them too. They're separate teams. But it's like, okay, this is how we interpreted the brief that was given to us and the design direction from design leadership.Here's a bunch of sketches. What do you guys like? What are you ladies like? And they will say, you know, let's change this, change this. They'll get feedback. And then the designer will go back to the table.

Speaker 95472.08s - 5481.94s

So you're telling me that a shoe like this, it's not only the design team and everything, there's probably a dozen or more people that have had their hand in this in some way.

Speaker 45482.1s - 5483.1s

More than that possible.

Speaker 95483.1s - 5483.7s

More than that.

Speaker 45483.84s - 5490.88s

You've got development. You've got design. You've got merchandising. You've got development. You've got design. You've got merchandising. You've got marketing. You've got insights. You've got everybody.And that's why...

Speaker 95490.88s - 5492.92s

Are there too many cooks in the kitchen sometimes?

Speaker 45493.42s - 5521.46s

Oh, of course they can be. But that's... I think it depends on the category, though. You know, because sometimes you need that many cooks in the kitchen to be able to make sure that you're hitting all the points. But sometimes they do have many less people involved and that's for thesekind of more exploratory projects where they're like let's just see what we can do and again you know that like with skateboarding a lot of the times there will be projects that necessarily aren't supposed to bring in a ton of profit but they're just supposed to create hype and it's like

Speaker 75521.46s - 5525.8s

a marketing campaign so I think that a lot of these projects I like that too is just supposed to get eyeballs

Speaker 45525.8s - 5530.7s

on the brand and give kind of a nod to where it's headed interesting

Speaker 95530.7s - 5533.46s

interesting do you have a certain favorite

Speaker 35533.46s - 5540.18s

project you've worked on throughout the years um or a shoe that came yeah a shoe that came out

Speaker 45540.18s - 5543.82s

that you're like I mean this is honestly like my pride and joy

Speaker 05543.82s - 5548.12s

this is like you know I went to Nike ORG and I was like, I just want to make a difference.

Speaker 45548.22s - 5563.2s

You know, I just want to have some impact when I leave there that I know that things are better than they were when I started or they're more evolved than there were when I started. And having implemented this and knowing that this is still happening there, it is like super

Speaker 65563.2s - 5563.92s

rewarding to me.

Speaker 45563.92s - 5564.7s

That's all I wanted.

Speaker 65564.88s - 5566.38s

You left a stamp. Yeah. And that's all I wanted. You left a stamp.

Speaker 95566.5s - 5566.66s

Yeah.

Speaker 65566.86s - 5569.22s

And that's all I wanted to do in skateboarding and then this too.

Speaker 45569.32s - 5572.7s

And it's like I just want to feel like I made a difference or had an impact on it.

Speaker 95572.8s - 5575.98s

What year did you leave Nike ORG? 2000.

Speaker 45576.34s - 5577.76s

It was 21, I think.

Speaker 95577.86s - 5578.52s

Okay, 21.

Speaker 45578.58s - 5579s

21, 20.

Speaker 95579s - 5593.62s

Some like that. A couple years ago. When did the whole artwork come in to play where you were posting on Instagram ORG and all these, you were starting to get attention. Was this all happening at the same time as Nike ORG? Is that why you ended up leaving?

Speaker 45593.82s - 5595.72s

I started doing art when I was at D.C.

Speaker 95596.6s - 5600.18s

And posting it on social media and getting a hype for it.

Speaker 45601.32s - 5605.26s

For probably about three years, I was getting about five likes. Okay. So it was a way for me to continue. I was getting about five likes. Okay.

Speaker 95605.42s - 5607.56s

So it was a way for me to continue.

Speaker 45607.66s - 5626.28s

I was forcing myself to go on Instagram and post something every day because I wanted to continue learning the tools. You know, and being self-taught, I didn't know that you specialize in something. I'm like, you're a 3D designer. I'm going to learn materials. I'm going to learn CAD. I'm going to learn modeling.I'm going to learn simulation. So I just kind of went all in

Speaker 95626.28s - 5631.22s

and learned everything. Was there a moment also because you had a couple of people like Alicia Keys PERSON,

Speaker 45631.22s - 5666.92s

right? Was it Alicia Keys? Yeah. Like retweet something. Didn't Lindsay Lohan PERSON like blow your shit up too? Like so it was real. Yeah. So it was a real place in Japan GPE or something that this thing existed in. Yeah. So again, like I started getting further and further away from creating at these companies I was working for and started managing more and more. So I wanted to have some kind of creative algorithm to, again, force myself to continue learning. So I don't remember when I started getting a lot of traction, but I remember when I started kind of coming into my own style, I feel like, and was coming up with like these wireframe sculptures that were kind of morphing into each other.

Speaker 95667.12s - 5671.78s

Right, right. I like the really large scale stuff. This is some of your stuff right here. Yeah, so.

Speaker 45673.62s - 5688.24s

And then, but again, like, it was one of the, it was like skateboarding kind of. It was a hobby that I did for fun that I had no expectation. Anything was going to come of it. But, you know, I think that when you do something because you love it, and that's why you do it, it shows.

Speaker 85688.46s - 5691.6s

And people can tell, and it resonated with people.

Speaker 45691.84s - 5696.54s

And again, if you look through my art too, you'll see the same thing with skateboarding in 3D.

Speaker 05696.64s - 5703.86s

It's like helping try to communicate to people to kind of believe in themselves, I think,

Speaker 85703.9s - 5706.14s

or challenge what it is that they're capable of.

Speaker 05706.42s - 5707.1s

Right, right.

Speaker 45707.26s - 5709.6s

What was your, like, what's your inspiration behind these?

Speaker 35709.64s - 5716.72s

Because they're so random and beautiful. Like, where do you start on one piece?

Speaker 45717.42s - 5722.68s

Well, fortunately, there's a lot of weird stuff that goes on up at my head, so it's not a stretch.

Speaker 95723.74s - 5727.14s

We are looking into the head of Chad Night PERSON right now.

Speaker 45727.24s - 5759.94s

This is what it looks like in there. I don't know. A lot of it is informed by the tool I'm trying to learn. But a lot of the time, I'll just, I'll have a feeling or something that I've experienced that day or I'm going through that I want to try to figure out a way to visualize or capture it.And it's therapeutic, too, you know? Like, I can get these things out there and to visualize or capture it. And it's therapeutic too, you know? Like I can get these things out there and put it in public sometimes. It's like a, almost like a journal that's a little bit symbolized so people can't tell what I'm saying. You know what I mean?

Speaker 95760.24s - 5763.14s

So it's kind of nice. It's a little code. Your own code.

Speaker 45763.28s - 5781.06s

Yeah. Right, right. Your own language. But, I mean, again, it started as like, hey, I want to figure out these tools. This is fun. And then I felt like it started resonating with people and people really liked it and were getting something out of it.So that's when that just gave me a lot more motivation to keep doing it.

Speaker 05781.38s - 5787.2s

You know, if it's going to affect people. And then I think the biggest thing was I did that Doja Cat PERSON album cover. Oh, okay.

Speaker 85787.88s - 5790.26s

So it was Siza and Doja Cat PERSON Kiss Me More.

Speaker 05790.96s - 5793.88s

That was, I think, probably the coolest project I've gotten to work out.

Speaker 95793.88s - 5794.7s

Is that more recent, right?

Speaker 65795.4s - 5798.3s

No, this was, yeah, probably two years ago. Yeah.

Speaker 95798.76s - 5809.42s

Okay. But it was Kiss Me More, Siza Doja Cat PERSON album cover that I got to do. That was probably the most rewarding, most enjoyable project outside of, like, footwear.

Speaker 45809.42s - 5817.84s

So before that, though, before just a couple years ago, I mean, like, and it's funny because, like, it's almost like a bad word you can't say.

Speaker 05817.92s - 5820.6s

Oh, yeah. It's like the NFT business, right?

Speaker 45820.68s - 5828.92s

And, like, you kind of, like, transition from your artwork, from Instagram ORG, Instagram like seamlessly into this world that was like being born. Yeah.

Speaker 95829.28s - 5840.68s

And I don't know if taking advantage of it is the right word, but you kind of dove into that and really kind of embrace that and kind of made this whole like you made a lot of money doing it.

Speaker 05840.68s - 5845.88s

And you you really kind of capitalized on on this thing that nobody really knew anything

Speaker 95845.88s - 5851.78s

about it was kind of this weird thing that I still don't it's like yeah I can have a photo my phone

Speaker 65851.78s - 5862.94s

and show and but I don't own it like but I do own it I have it here I can print it out I don't understand like it's a weird thing I know and nowadays it's like I said it's almost like this

Speaker 75862.94s - 5865.52s

taboo yeah you I mean wherever there's money like this. Taboo. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 95865.82s - 5867.18s

I mean, wherever there's money.

Speaker 45867.3s - 5868.36s

There's grifters, man.

Speaker 75868.72s - 5869.92s

That's all I'm going to say.

Speaker 45870.1s - 5873.82s

Where there's money to be made, there will be shitty actors coming in.

Speaker 75874s - 5874.2s

Sure.

Speaker 45874.44s - 5878.52s

So, I mean, a lot of us, like I said, I've been doing this for 10 years just for fun.

Speaker 75878.6s - 5879.52s

Like, I love doing it.

Speaker 25879.52s - 5890.34s

And that's why the majority of us who were initially involved in that initial NFT ORG phase were digital artists that had been doing this just out of fun with no expectation of getting anything back.

Speaker 45890.52s - 5891.76s

You know, like we're not doing it for the money.

Speaker 25891.82s - 5892.56s

We're doing it for fun.

Speaker 45893.26s - 5896.64s

But there's never been a way for us to monetize anything on that.

Speaker 25896.8s - 5898.22s