Sexy Democracy | The Grinding Gear Podcast #82

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Don't you like money, Sony? So we just watched Jesse Cox's video again titled The Rise of Adult Video Games WORK_OF_ART on Steam.

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And you and I keep saying this week we're going to finally do it.

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We're going to talk about sexy games in the wake of Stellar Blade PRODUCT.

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And we just haven't gotten around to it, but now we have time.

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So that's the catalyst for all this as the Stellar Blade PRODUCT, and we just haven't gotten around to it, but now we have time. Let's do it. So that's the catalyst for all this

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as the Stellar Blade PRODUCT happened.

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I think to a point,

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to a point, I mean, Jesse PERSON's video is much more like a proper 15-minute documentary on the rise of adult games on Steam ORG.

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So that people can reference with some knowledge why those games exist in the conversations we're having about Stellar Blade PRODUCT.

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Yes. Is Stellar Blade PRODUCT. Yes. Is Stellar Blade PRODUCT a good game? People seem to enjoy it. It seems like it's not, it doesn't, I haven't played it myself. I've watched enough of it to see if I was interested. I think I am still a little bit interested in playing it,but all it's done, there's been so much comparison to NIR and as someone who still hasn't

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beaten any near games that I look at it and go I think I would probably enjoy near a little bit more and if nothing else I know I would enjoy filling in that blank in my pop culture lexiconbecause of the community that we are in is a big game for a lot of them but there's a lot of

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there's a lot of comparisons being made

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okay yeah you're a sexy robot, Android PRODUCT, whatever.

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Spammy PERSON, lots of cartwheels, that kind of thing, that kind of, so I see why it's being compared there. My understanding is that it plays somewhat differently, and the story actually is pretty different. It definitely doesn't have, you know, was a Yokotaro PRODUCT. Like, that, that, that dude has very specific ways that he likes to write stories.

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Yeah, style.

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I don't think anyone else could ape even if they wanted to.

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Well, you know, you've got your death strandings and stuff. You know, people make a name for them on their particular style. Yeah. Getting out there. Yeah.

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So what I've heard from people I tend to have similar taste in is that Stellar Blade PRODUCT is a little

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it's not narratively as deep as something like near but the moment to moment gameplay is fun enough that if you're just a person everyone out and then just wants like a game ass game in your game diet it willit brings that. Okay. Not

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the kind of game I'd go for personally.

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No but it's yeah but really it's

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for me it's popped off the lid of the can of sexy games again and it's, yeah, but really it's, for me, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, and, it's, it's, it's, and, it's, it's, and, it's, it's, and, it's, and, it's, it's also, like, it's, it's, and, and, and that, but it's also, like, it's, it's, it's, it's, and, and, it's, and, it's, and, and, it's, but it's, it's, it's, and, and, and, it's Balders Gate 3 WORK_OF_ART The Witcher The Mass Effect series And And that But it's also like the place of For lack of a better term Eye candy in games

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Because yeah

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I don't know I feel like we constantly go To me it's like a way It's like a wave form A roller coaster of

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We're hell yeah Sexual content in our games ah it's too sexy we're getting like sometimes it's prudish other times there's concern

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for what I would consider more legitimate reasons I did pearl clutching bothers me

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yes it would the pearl clutches

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are online now they are amongst us our generation has become pearl clutches or at least some of us when it comes

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to online and it's particularly we're given the satanic panics we have experience over the course of our life. We lived through satanic panic. We lived through, well, honestly, satanic panic was old before our time. No, but they repeat itself, right?

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Like, like, like, we lived through children reading books in the Victorian NORP times. Can you believe books? They won't put down the books. The thoughts these people are having. Our generation

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as millennials lived through

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the very tell end of like the

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tipper gore parental advisory music like vulgar music panic. We lived through the violence of video game panic like two or three of those at least. What else did we go through? There was something else I'm missing.Oh, and then like shit like South Park WORK_OF_ART. Yeah. The actual like Satan being a part of it was before our time. Yes. I'm aware, you know, because my father-in-law was as a celebrated went into the sewers to play D&D type. That's why I hit him off.So, well, when I met him, because he was like, oh, crap, you play D&D? Oh, my God, that's amazing. You know, I used to go in the sewers and play it because we had to hide from the parents.

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That sounds lovely.

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I had nothing.

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No, no, no, no, Katie's family, they were a bunch of, like, Chicago fans.

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And I'm from New York GPE, so they all hated my guts. Oh, well, well, just so you know, it was extra shocking because while he was talking to me at the first dinner I had ever had with what would eventually become my wife, she was with her two younger siblings quoting Charlie PERSON the unicorn nonstop. And I had no idea what it was. And I had no idea who I was dating for a hot moment. But her dad

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seemed pretty cool. So that was okay. But it was a moment there in the Chili's in some mall in Jacksonville.

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Yeah, quite the experience.

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Hello, dear listeners just want to take a minute here and let you know.

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Probably remind you, you've probably heard about it before, about our Patreon ORG. If you enjoy all of the stuff that Kyle PERSON and I make together, check out support our bromance.com. It'll take you straight to our Patreon. We've got different levels that are, of course, suggested you can set yourself up for whatever amount works for you. Whatever works for you works for us.We just appreciate that anyone actually likes us enough to pay us to be ridiculous on the internet. Everyone, no matter what level you sign up for, you're going to get access to the members-only channels in our Discord PRODUCT. And you're also going to get an ad-free podcast feed with some bonus episodes. And this showwon't have this. It won't have this. This, this, it's like the Patreon ORG ad. It won't be in there. It'll be ad-free for you. So thank you for even considering it. Check out support our bromance.com. Let's get back to the show.

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It is weird. And when we get into things like the boulders gave bear sex, like people, when I see people of my generation that I feel like we grew up on the internet, friend coming over.

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On the same page. Yeah, being like, hey, check out this Newgrounds FAC game. Have you seen stick figure death theater?

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Like, did we not, how did we end up on the internet? And I think a lot of it's just phones. Like people got Reddit ORG on their phone like, oh damn, Instagram ORG. Whoa, wow, look at this. And that's how they began to associate with the internet rather than what we had,which was this much more like, raw, you want to see something crazy experience.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's, and I honestly don't know the answer. And it probably comes down to personal experience.

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And I mean, it's, I don't know. Not. And it probably comes down to personal experience. And I don't know.

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Not to like get too far ahead.

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But yeah, I think a lot of it comes down to personal triggers to get serious about it. Like everyone's what sets you off is different for everybody.

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Oh, sure.

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But when we were younger,

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we didn't have enough life experience that when we were all kind of getting shotgun

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the same irreverent media, be it violence, comedy, sex, or a mix of all of that, we were just like, ha ha, yeah, it's funny, who cares? Because we had no real life experience to be like, oh, that actually kind of hits me in a place that I'm sensitive to. We were not, we were not sexually active. We hadn't had meaning for relationships yet.Hell, even like violence, you know, hopefully we were lucky enough active. We hadn't had meaningful relationships yet. Hell, even like violence. You know, hopefully we were lucky enough to not have experienced any sort of true traumatic violence in our life.

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Sure, dead baby jokes, right?

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Like, those are very popular in middle school.

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And, you know, as an adult, you're like, what the shit are you doing? Yeah. You know, like, that's a very one-to-one.

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And, I mean, on the other side of this, as you've mentioned, like, this is like the excited, fun side of the conversation. The one everyone's been having for a long time is the, can there be ugly characters in video games, quote, end quote. Can people be normal looking? Oh my God.Like, I wouldn't date them in that video game.

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And you end up in this, I feel like the checks and balances are really important.

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And you need to have that sort of village moment where someone's like, I am massively offended by turnips. And everyone goes, well, wait, turnips?

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Like the vegetable? I'm picking something like non-offensive here. Okay. For my example. Like a beat. Yeah, like a beat.Or a green bee. And you go like, whoa, like, why is that? And they're like, well, I'm allergic to turnips. And you're like, okay, now I understand why you would hate them. We're going to keep eating turnips.

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But I totally understand why you hate to. I'm going to make sure you get no turnips. And I am cool with that. And no turnips will transact your direction.

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You're going down the road of being instantly misunderstood on social media. Yes.

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You know, I love waffles.

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So you hate pancakes. Like, no, no, no. Pancakes are fine. Free guitar lessons. Who wants guitar lessons? Who ever talked to you? What about the drummers, you asshole waffles, so you hate pancakes. Like, no, no, no, pancakes are fine. Free guitar lessons. Who wants guitar lessons? Who ever talked to you?What about the drummers, you asshole?

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Yeah, exactly.

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I'm just like, oh, holy shit. Okay, hold on.

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Exactly, and that's going to happen.

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And that's why I'm getting like, I'm like, your triggers are your triggers.

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And my triggers are mine. And I'll do my best to let you know when we're getting something that is my trigger instead of assuming that I think you're an asshole. I think that's healthy.

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I try. That's, yeah, and all of this, that's what I try to do.

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And it's something I think we're getting better about with sexual content and with things like eye candy because I think, I think there was a, there was a pushback at, at some point where we're like, sexiness is,

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I feel like sexiness in games was being talked about generally as a negative. And then at some point, we started the turn and we're like, well, wait, hold on. No, I'm into that shit. That shit's great.

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And I think it, at least in our corner of the internet, I think it was extra, this is, this is such a tiny.

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This is going to be such a small then diagram.

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But I think you and I noticed that a lot around Heroes of the Storm WORK_OF_ART and their skins.

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Yes. Because in Heroes of the Storm WORK_OF_ART, there were some pretty sexy skins. But I think you and me were like, huh, the dudes are also sexy, because I think we came up where most of the, like, sexy characters were all as women and the masculine character, or we also hadn't been exposed to people that found masculine characters attractive. And then as we were thrust into online communities and met more people with more diverse backgrounds on our own, we're like, oh, so this is what you find sexy in people or characters

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that we, you and I are not attracted to.

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Well, and like the classic example of Cotor in Cartho Nassi FAC, they made a business in people or characters that we, you and I, are not attracted to. Well, and like the classic example of Cotor in Cartho Nassi FAC, they made a business decision saying, well, we're not going to have enough people playing this game. Who would even date this particular character? So cut it out.We're going to save the money on production, on voice acting. We'll just cut the whole thing. And meanwhile, you know, Kristen's playing it for the first time, like spamming the poor guy being like, where's the options? Why isn't this going any further? That was definitely one for you.

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And it simply didn't exist. And she couldn't get that character to go any further in that relation because they stopped it, like halfway through. Yeah. And it was very frustrating. Yeah. Yeah.And so that's where I see the conversation is starting to become more turning to being a positive thing

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is when games made sure that they were being more equal in creating sexy costumes or sexy characters. Yeah.

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And then there's there can be more of a balance.

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Well, the one I really remember from Here's the Storm that was like, that was weird to me me was the Alex Straza PERSON conversation when they put out, here's the storm, Alex Straza.

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And she was volumptuous. And people were like, what?

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I mean, everyone was. That's not. Yeah, Tychus PRODUCT was like, people were thick. And here's, you had the top down silhouette. So I think it just made everyone a little more thick in the first place. Yeah, I assume they, to a certain degree wanted to exaggerate the proportions so that because you're playing an isometric game that the solar is still red.But also... So that Nova's butt would be visible from space. Everyone really, like, because of X-Men 97 WORK_OF_ART, there's been a lot of reposting of how they used to draw Rogue PRODUCT.

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And that's basically the style of Fears of the Storm WORK_OF_ART. Everyone was drawn.

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But everyone, yeah. Like, like, everyone had superhero cleavage, including all of the men's pectoral muscles had superhero cleavage. They had chest cleavage, including all of the men's pectoral muscles, had superhero cleavage. They had chest cleavage, like male chest cleavage or butt cleavage. That makes sense.Anyway.

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Stryations. Yeah, yeah, because I remember getting in and being like, that is the, that is the steamyest Toronto GPE I've ever laid eyes upon is the model and heroes of the storm. So to me, I was like, why are we bringing it up for Alex Traza PERSON? Because, like, everyone's just kind of stylized in that way. Well, and that's where I take a moment.I'm like, well, wait, it's, like, and this is where I do my turnips from I'm like, well, wait, is it wrong? And they're like, yeah, I hate it.

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She's supposed to be in a bikini. And you're like, well, no, she's the life buying. They hate the Heroes of the Storm WORK_OF_ART one?

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Yeah, well, because it was, it was volumptuous rather than like stickly in the sort of classic wow proportions.

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Her old model was just a blood elf model.

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Exactly, but they wanted it to match that particular thing. And so, you know, much like this turn-up situation, I had like, well, now, wait a minute, why did this happen? And I remember that happening back then. But in the end, I was like, she's the life binder. Like, this is, that is a life-giving body.

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But yeah, that is.

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It doesn't have to be there, read.

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But absolutely, it works.

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That doesn't have to be a read. And that's like, I mean, the hell you could parlay it into the fan art conversation because different artistshave different styles.

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And the same artists

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could draw the same character and they could look completely different. Oh, yes. That's true. They do. So, yeah,I mean, it's why they're like, back to like when I was getting into DBZ and I had a DBZ fan site I made on GeoCities ORG. That's how I learned what Cheeby PRODUCT was. So what is the lore ramifications of Stellar Blade PRODUCT, the robot lady?I don't know.

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And her large breasts. I have no freaking idea. No, okay. This doesn't have. I mean, you know why they drew like that. Yes.

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Because that's what they wanted to look at.

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I mean, really, like to, to me, like to get to the, to get to the whether I'm offended

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or not point, for me, it's always, are they trying to make me make a bad decision? What do you mean? Are you trying to hoodwink me by nature of horniness into purchasing things while I'm under the influence? Is that any worse than all of the other ways they try to get you to spend money? Not, well, but I'm thinking clearly in most situations, right? Okay, again, I think that you might be making this personal. Are you more susceptible to making, throwing money at things when you're...Randy PERSON? That's the whole point of... Yeah, when you're turned up. That's the whole point of arousal. You are aware, right? Well, yeah, but I think a lot of people behave the same way when something is like reallyawesome or epic or violent or scary.

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It would be, yeah, yeah. Whatever it is you're into, it's when it's turned up.

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I mean, that's why gambling works.

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So if it's like a false advertisement, that to me would be, you know, wrongdoing and kind of like the steam conversation. If it has a wrongfully hot cover and that has never justified in the lore or the gameplay or the game doesn't.

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I was felt that way about the, uh, a new hope.

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That art of like super jacked Luke PERSON and like, like, yeah, I could see it.

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Leah PERSON looking like she's in like a wet t-shirt contest,

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but it's Leia PERSON's dress.

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Like, everything was like really over proportioned. It looked like, it looked like Frank Rosetta PERSON, like a Conan PERSON, uh,

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style thing. And then you watch it in like, Mark Hamill PERSON is tiny in, skinny, like in like, worse physical shape than me.He's, I mean, you know, he's a moisture farm.

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He's a skinny dude. Yeah. Yeah. Like everyone's pretty calm.

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Benign. Yes. Yes. Whereas Stellar Blade PRODUCT, I would say like, everything I've seen of itmatches the box cover.

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Exactly.

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And that's why I'm not offended by something like stellar blade, but like gotcha games would be one where I'm like, oh, like not only,you've aroused me in the idea of purchasing this and going further to now own this character that I can take out of my stable to make them run around.

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And now you've done wrong.

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I also want to give internet points to Olin PERSON in chat who wrote, I stirred your loins by my product. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, that's, that's at the core of sex cells. I mean, going back to Carl PERSON's at the core of sex sells. I mean, going back to, uh,uh,

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uh, Carl on Aquitine PRODUCT with his beer advertisement, bikini standup that he took from the corner store. I mean, those actually did exist.

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I watched that episode recently.

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So it's in my mind. It's recently in your mind.

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And it made me think of like, oh yeah, that is how we used to just try and sell beer to people. It's just like bikini lady with beer, buy it. Like,doing this forever. Yeah. It's no different.ini lady with beer, buy it. Like, we've been doing this forever.

Speaker 31005.72s - 1019.36s

Yeah. It's no different. I think what's different now is that a good, a good amount of people are more than happy to admit that like, yeah, that's the reason I buy it. I do like that.And it's a transaction that I understand.

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I understand the fantasy of it and I'm here for it as opposed to quiet in

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MGS 5 I'm like you didn't have to make the lore that she breathed through her skin you just wanted a bikini sniper

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sometimes it's paper thin and that I haven't experienced that but that sounds like a paper thin version

Speaker 31041.66s - 1056.16s

I guess what I'm saying is I respect it more when you just like just be like yeah I like hot ladies like cool I understand that okay I guess what I'm saying is I respect it more when you just like just be like yeah, I like hot ladies. Like cool. I understand that. Okay. I see what you mean.But that could also. I guess we're getting into the kind of like the personal preference of it, right? Because like a near you can blow your skirt off. Yeah.

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But the idea that that your skirt is a heat sink is super cute.

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And like, stat wise, I guess you would suffer losing your skirt to bear your butt. And I think that's kind of awesome. I guess I can, I guess I appreciate both in that case.

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It's like, yeah, she looks like that because I think Yoko Taro PERSON probably just enjoys.

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Sure.

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And probably has a thing for high cut skirts. Well, and happened to be in a position to make the video game.

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And also, that was a shared preference of enough people that it was successful.

Speaker 31091.38s - 1094.72s

Yeah, to me, it's a causality of loop of, uh, L.O.L.

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It's just sexy.

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But also, it's hilarious and kind of awesome how deep you went on the lore here. And I just keep kind of giggling and then giggle, respect. Giggle, respect. Yeah. Like, that's kind of how I feel about that kind of stuff. Yeah.Literally, the man was like, I like butts, L. a lot. Exactly.

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Sure. Right. Like, yeah, yeah. I don't think it's ever happened on here,but there, it's come up in,

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on the anger chicken a long time ago. Mm-hmm. We were having conversation about the, about some steamier arted cards. It's official heartstone art. Yeah.

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Okay. You remember there's the whole thing where they got rid of the Cleveland John Jaina PERSON's portrait. Yeah, and that was like a whole thing and the meme joke was unnerfed Jana PERSON. It was considering nerffing Jana PERSON.

Speaker 31136.84s - 1137.34s

Okay, okay.

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Yeah.

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Anyway, I don't remember the exact episode, but there was a, there's a point. This is, I'm taking way too long to recant a joke, which was we were talking about something and I don't remember if it was hat or dills or Joss PERSON. I don't even remember what era of angry chicken this was, but someone goes, oh, so you'reinto that, Garrett, and for some reason it was on speaker and Katie from the other room yells, no, he's in the butt. And it was just. Yeah.

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Personal preference. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was just, yeah. Personal preference, yeah.

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Yeah, that was a weird time.

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Yes. The whole, not angry chicken, but the Hartstone PERSON thing.

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I mean,

Speaker 01173.16s - 1187.94s

some parts of anger chicken were pretty weird. But that was out ahead of time of the whole World Warcraft ORG thing. Uh, yes. Actually,no, you're absolutely right. Yeah, I think that, at least the Janna Portrait thing, I think that did predate any of that,any of that stuff coming out.

Speaker 31188.8s - 1197.3s

I mean, Harstown GPE definitely was, I think, trying to reach a wider audience, and so I don't really begrudge it that. Being on phones and all that.

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I think you would tone down sexual content

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if you're trying to reach a wider audience like I do.

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So I don't necessarily begrudge at that,

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but I also, I don't mind when characters at that but I also I don't mind when characters are sexy

Speaker 31207.12s - 1234.64s

the one I always found weird was when I went to Friday Night Magic the Gathering once in Chicago in 2012 and the guy opposite me I know exactly where you're doing with ussexy cardbacks and he said it gave him a statistical advantage because it would distract me. Was it like properly, like, like probably shouldn't have had these in public levels of sexy or just?

Speaker 01234.64s - 1239.34s

I mean, it was nothing that wouldn't be in like a Genshin PRODUCT impact nowadays or something like that.

Speaker 31239.44s - 1239.58s

Okay.

Speaker 01239.74s - 1254.88s

Okay. So it was like PG-13. It was like, yeah, an over-decorated swimsuit. Okay. You know, when like it's a swimsuit, but they've got like seven bracelets on and several earrings and shoes that have straps and you're just like,nobody's swimming and all that.

Speaker 31256s - 1275.46s

The hair took way too much work. Yes. Like there's a reason we have costume history. And the reason why people, you know, in the merchant guilds had so much cloth on their head, Garrett PERSON. Are you aware of this? You know, the big, the big hats and like, you know, your Witcher hats.

Speaker 01275.56s - 1276.4s

Like, you know, your merchants.

Speaker 31276.78s - 1286.08s

Because you're literally saying, look at all this fabric. I'm wasting. I can afford this fabric. It's like having a nice watch. Yeah. Or expensive shoes. Exactly. I am wearing this watch. It's like having a nice watch. Yeah. Or expensive shoes.

Speaker 21286.2s - 1295.54s

Exactly. I'm wearing this watch. Therefore, fight me, bro, because you can't take my watch.Nowadays, it's, please take extra time as you talk to me because you're into that as well.

Speaker 31295.78s - 1298.04s

Yes, you're showcasing your hobby to the other person.

Speaker 01298.04s - 1310.12s

I never thought about this. I get stopped every time I go to the gas station because someone wants to talk to me about my car. And don't wear Jordans PRODUCT publicly.I don't want to talk to you about your shoes. I just I just want to buy my stuff at the grocery store and leave.

Speaker 21310.6s - 1321.7s

Accessibility, right, has increased the fandom there because previously it would be kind of a move for you to head out if you were wearing something really expensive.

Speaker 31321.7s - 1323.96s

Yeah, where we're going with this in terms of sexiness?

Speaker 01324.04s - 1328.98s

We go to the 80, hang on. Oh, I was sorry.

Speaker 31329.08s - 1331.84s

I was talking about the car and not trusting.

Speaker 01332.02s - 1338.6s

Overly elaborate swimsuits on your Genshin PRODUCT impact. So that was a situation where I was like, you're just into that.

Speaker 31339.52s - 1342.16s

And that's like, that's it. And that's okay.

Speaker 01342.42s - 1343.46s

That is, yeah, I think that is.

Speaker 31343.56s - 1344.94s

It's totally like, why?

Speaker 01345.04s - 1345.56s

Like, I don't know.

Speaker 31345.66s - 1349.22s

But why should I concern myself with his constant state of arousal?

Speaker 01351.66s - 1355.14s

Um, I don't think you should unless he's making it your problem.

Speaker 31355.14s - 1355.42s

Right.

Speaker 01355.88s - 1356.92s

And I guess he was.

Speaker 31357.54s - 1363.48s

Well, he was attempting to. It failed. But he was attempting to make it my problem.

Speaker 01363.48s - 1376s

There's a scale of making it your problem. And I think that's really low on the scale. It's pretty benign. It's really low on the scale. But he was hoping it make it my problem. There's a scale of making your problem and I think that's really low on the scale. It's pretty benign. It's really low on scale. But he was hoping it would become a problem. While we were watching Jesse's video on stream, I was like, I remember the first time I was playing Counterstrike PRODUCT and I saw a full on porn spray.

Speaker 31376s - 1378s

And it did work. Did you get shot?

Speaker 21378s - 1381s

I was stunned and I was like, holy crazy. It was pretty gratuitous.

Speaker 01381s - 1382s

It was really gratuitous.

Speaker 41382s - 1384s

Well, the old internet, yeah.

Speaker 01384s - 1389.46s

And it wasn't seen anything like that before because I had had the internet for a few years.

Speaker 21389.98s - 1398.06s

It was that, much like I am not afraid of snakes, but sometimes when I lift up an old brick in my backyard, I'm not expecting to see the snake.

Speaker 01398.9s - 1402.08s

I was there for a game of Counterstrike PRODUCT. I wasn't expecting them to see that.

Speaker 21402.14s - 1404.42s

I understand that. And that's how I got headshot. I understand that.

Speaker 01405.58s - 1406.32s

So yeah, that's, that's my thought there. I think you make you, see that. I understand that. And that's how I got headshot. I understand that. So yeah,

Speaker 31406.5s - 1406.94s

that's,

Speaker 01407s - 1407.22s

that's,

Speaker 31407.26s - 1408.1s

that's my thought there.

Speaker 01408.22s - 1408.7s

I think you make,

Speaker 31408.7s - 1451.98s

I think you make your problem when you get into these conversations of these, these corners of the internet to get mad because characters aren'tsexy enough for their tastes. Well, that's when, like, I get concerned as a human being about their constant state of arousal. And like, if they're trying to maintain that throughout their entire day, that's when, like, I get concerned as a human being about their constant state of arousal.And, like, if they're trying to maintain that throughout their entire day, that's not healthy. And I think you desensitized yourself to such a degree by constantly surrounding yourself with arousal at all times. If you feel like everything in life needs to be sexy, then you might have a problem. I don't think the government needs to get involved. I don't think Steve PERSON needs to get involved. But I do think you need to take a moment to analyze your life and say,maybe I should back off a little bit. Yeah.

Speaker 01452.42s - 1452.82s

Yes.

Speaker 31453.08s - 1482.74s

Yes. And I don't know. There was always the, I've told stories on stream about how my dad has that postcard of like three bikini girls and thongs. Like it's a Florida GPE postcard.Sure. And when he moved here from Jersey GPE, he bought a fat stack of them to send to all his friends back in Jersey for Christmas cards because he just thought it was hilarious that they're all hating winter. And she's like, look at all these bikini. And to me as a kid, oh, that's why I'm, that's why I like butts.Yeah, could be. I mean, if it's nurture nature, we don't know.

Speaker 01483.1s - 1490.38s

Anyway, um, yeah. So like, I also like, I don't know to,, yeah. So, like, I also, like, I don't know. To me, like, I've come full circle of thinking that kind of shit is quaint.

Speaker 31491.08s - 1514.4s

Because I feel like we cleaned it up for so long. We've gotten rid of, like, the art in the background of a Disney ORG movie. They're at, like, a mechanic shop and there's, like, it's not even that sexy, but there's a bikini calendar on the wall. Sure. But that shit has been so sanitized, the fact they're getting rid of Disney ORG Plus, then now when I actually do see that shit again, I'm like, ah, that's quaint.I remember a time when that was just like, that's just how we yada yada mechanics and fiction.

Speaker 21514.54s - 1525.14s

But that's no different than, oh, like, that's your interest, you're focused. And I think that's what's important, right? Like, when you see one peeker on a car, you go, that guy loves Jiu-Jitsu Kaysen.

Speaker 31525.74s - 1529.6s

That's awesome. I've got an Aska PRODUCT peeker coming right now.

Speaker 01529.68s - 1535.36s

If it's like surrounding the whole car and the whole car is completely covered them. Yeah. Like you don't have any focus. Yeah.

Speaker 31535.8s - 1549.56s

Like I don't, like, because back then, like there's a time of life where just my, my wallpapers were just like, it was always like fully cooler, Evangelian PERSON. And I just like anime, but I also like those characters. And there was a time where I was just like, hell yeah, I'm going to watch any anime I can find a sexy character in. Because I was younger and single.

Speaker 01549.7s - 1568.82s

And that's just how I live my life. But now I just like those characters, but also I like having a little bit of that around because it's a part of car culture. And it's a thing that it's more than just one thing at this point for me. Where the hell was I going with this? Anyway, I do kind of agree with you that. Like, like, what it's just on all the time, I'm just like,

Speaker 31569.62s - 1584.36s

you got to get to sensitized to it at some point. That's probably, I would assume, I don't want, I don't know, I'm not going to psychoanalyze these people, but I would imagine that's probably why some people take it to the lengths that they do in their anger and the forcing their views and their wants on other people.

Speaker 21584.52s - 1594.62s

Exactly. Because I think, yeah, what you said, I think about it the same way is like, I like spicy food, but I don't eat it all the friggin time. And I have varying degrees of hot sauces in my house for that very reason.

Speaker 01594.62s - 1596.16s

And like, you're just like spicy food spicy.

Speaker 41596.26s - 1598.66s

And then you turn it in someone, you're like, is that spicy?

Speaker 31599.58s - 1610.86s

And like, no, it's hell divers. Like, I need that to be spicy. Okay. I really desperately need hell divers. I can talk about hell divers in a positive way now. So we're going to talk about that in the moment.Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're also going to get to hell divers.

Speaker 21610.92s - 1621.26s

But you know what I mean? But like, like, sometimes you see someone online turn on something that clearly is not sexy and say it should be sexy. And you're like, what the hell.

Speaker 31621.56s - 1627.52s

Yeah, and they blow it up into this whole thing about like, like censorship or like back in my day.

Speaker 01627.64s - 1628.9s

This is what games always were.

Speaker 31628.9s - 1643.34s

Yeah, this game is holding me back. And it's like, no, games were not always. Not every game was like that. Do we have games like that? Absolutely. I'm not going to sit here and like I read it dead air alive.It was a fun game. Yeah. It was actually a good comment. It was actually a good comment.

Speaker 21643.44s - 1649.76s

But that's not, I'm not not gonna sit here and lie to you And tell you that's the reason I rented it No, no, I don't think that I played as Christine PERSON, right?

Speaker 01650.3s - 1652.5s

She was the one with the, I think she had crane

Speaker 41652.5s - 1656.22s

She would like poke people with her fingers And you know

Speaker 31656.22s - 1658.92s

I was just happy to be there

Speaker 41658.92s - 1660.16s

Yeah, just happy to be there, right?

Speaker 31661.08s - 1664.98s

I didn't have a favorite. I was just like, this is good. Just happy to be there.

Speaker 41664.98s - 1667.3s

I was perfect age, this is good. Just happy to be there. I was the perfect age.

Speaker 21667.98s - 1669.84s

Perfect age.

Speaker 01670.88s - 1671.04s

But yeah,

Speaker 31672.1s - 1680.68s

that's where I'm, do the cardbacks. Like, yeah, that's, that's a,I wouldn't even, I don't even think that registers on the making it someone else's problem scale.

Speaker 01680.68s - 1684.96s

Yeah. Yeah. I do think it's funny, some of the things like we've done as a society like,

Speaker 31686.88s - 1698.48s

continue this. Like, there's a game, there's yeah. I do think it's funny some of the things like we've done as a society like continue this. Like there's a game I'm playing a lot, Unicorn Overlord PRODUCT. And a lot of the armors are extremely practical. But then you go to the elf nation. It's like, well, that's just elves.

Speaker 21699.5s - 1707.78s

That's how elves live. They live in bikinis for war. And the part of it being like equal opportunity, that's something that even in the early days,

Speaker 31707.94s - 1716.14s

wow was pretty good about with the elves. Like the night elves, they both wore bikinis. But I had, yeah. And actually that,

Speaker 01716.24s - 1719.48s

like the box cover art wasn't really in game for like the longest time.

Speaker 21719.92s - 1721.64s

That's actually a rather new edition.

Speaker 01722.08s - 1722.96s

But you know what I'm talking about.

Speaker 31723.06s - 1748.82s

Like they're really the silver like night elf armor. Sure. That was something. Yeah, never mind. Actually, I guess that wasn't in game for like forever. But and but not all of it was.There was a couple of those old vanilla sets where it's like fully armored on the dude and a complete bikini on the ladies. No, I mean, I love Frank Frisetta PERSON. Like I think the absolute mountain of Hawaiian NORP buns that make up the man's chest is fabulous.

Speaker 41749.44s - 1751.04s

And the fact that he has...

Speaker 31751.04s - 1752.56s

I've never thought of it like that.

Speaker 41753.28s - 1759.1s

That's incredible. And that's what I think of in these situations.

Speaker 31759.58s - 1760.3s

That's fair.

Speaker 01760.42s - 1764.28s

And X WORK_OF_ART-Men, you know, because you got, you know, thick as a tree, cyclops.

Speaker 41767.1s - 1772.02s

Yeah. Running around. Yeah. No, that that's that's a good point yeah but like i remember like seeing people mad like last of i should

Speaker 01772.02s - 1778.24s

be sex here i'm like no it shouldn't never distract that it's not that kind of game see and then also you

Speaker 31778.24s - 1783.1s

talk to like i like i talked to some of my my lady friends and they're like oh joel is a piece and i'm like

Speaker 01783.1s - 1786.16s

oh okay i don't yeah i don't read into it that way. Sometimes I'm just a poor.

Speaker 31787.34s - 1788.78s

I'm a poor judge because that's not what I'm into.

Speaker 01788.92s - 1789.24s

Exactly.

Speaker 21789.54s - 1792.28s

So I see piles of muscles and I'm like, I've done,

Speaker 41792.7s - 1793.82s

I've done the workout thing.

Speaker 31794.2s - 1794.36s

Yeah.

Speaker 01794.44s - 1795.4s

I want to do it again someday.

Speaker 41795.54s - 1796.28s

I really do.

Speaker 11797.08s - 1798.04s

I'm so tired.

Speaker 31800.36s - 1824.4s

And I know how much that took out of me, but it was really fun to, you know, marble sculpt your body. And any time I see, and that's why I was talking about Ninja Warrior PRODUCT earlier. Yeah. Anytime I see that took out of me, but it was really fun to, you know, marble sculpt your body. And any time I see, and that's why I was talking about Ninja Warrior PRODUCT earlier. Yeah. Anytime I see that, I'm like, oh, my God, that's a lot of work.I have mad respect for that. Yeah. But you show me something that's, you know, more subtle, maybe like Joel PERSON or rustic. I'm like, I have no idea. Yeah, like Cork is saying in chat right now, like Joel PERSON's literally daddy. Like, yeah, I learned about the daddy.

Speaker 01824.82s - 1836.9s

Like, as I started talking to more people male and female alike that were into Joel PERSON, I was like, oh, that's what daddy mean. Like, yeah, like, you learn new things if you're, if you're open and like, just be curious and I don't know.

Speaker 31837.24s - 1846.42s

That one, the, that one, I just can't follow. And I'm not being, what, performative?

Speaker 41847.42s - 1850.14s

But, like, Last of Us WORK_OF_ART should be sexier.

Speaker 31851.24s - 1852.84s

How? I'm using that as my extreme example.

Speaker 01852.84s - 1862.22s

I don't think that's a popular one. Okay, go on. Because I'm not on the internet much for, like, the Twitter verse and stuff. And there's much more popular reasons for people being angry at Last of Us WORK_OF_ART.

Speaker 31862.32s - 1862.98s

That's not one of them.

Speaker 01863.04s - 1864.84s

But that is places where I've seen, like, yeah.

Speaker 31864.94s - 1871.62s

And obviously, yeah, I've seen a lot. And at this point in my life, you follow enough Final Fantasy 14 PRODUCT artists. You're going to see a lot of daddy art.

Speaker 01872.28s - 1878.3s

I've been exposed to the most of it I've ever been exposed to since art school.

Speaker 11878.72s - 1881.02s

Sure. Which we, Daddy wasn't a term back then.

Speaker 01881.1s - 1888.68s

Because like the zombies, you may not know this, but the scratches can also infect you. So being less clothed, it's a bad idea.

Speaker 31889.06s - 1890.12s

Is that how it works?

Speaker 01890.36s - 1892.86s

And I think that's only in the show, not necessarily in the game.

Speaker 31893.06s - 1897.4s

Maybe the spores. Yeah, the spores. The breathing seemed like a really bad way.

Speaker 01897.48s - 1904.04s

But you can get bit for sure. Yeah, that's a good point. And the spaghetti would come out of your mouth. Yeah, but mostly you would just die if they caught you. They'd eat you. Anyway.

Speaker 31904.7s - 1907.34s

They never went further, you know, they just faded black.

Speaker 01907.46s - 1923.52s

I digress. You follow enough artists in the Final Fantasy PRODUCT community. You'll see every video game character you've ever loved turned into an absolute adonis of a daddy. And it could be like in a post-apocalyptic zombie world you would want only skin-tight clothing so they can't grab all your clothes and pull you down.

Speaker 21924.36s - 1927.32s

But then I get into, well, where are they going to get it?

Speaker 01927.56s - 1933.2s

You know, where are they going to get military-grade skin-tight clothing in an apocalypse?

Speaker 31933.2s - 1938.26s

That would work better in something like a near-stellar-riding.

Speaker 11938.44s - 1938.64s

Okay.

Speaker 01938.84s - 1941.86s

Dead rising is like silly and bombastic and out there.

Speaker 31942.1s - 1945.76s

And like, yeah, if you were running around in like a skin tight superhero costume,

Speaker 01945.86s - 1946.64s

no one would question it.

Speaker 21946.66s - 1947.3s

It would be practical.

Speaker 01947.44s - 1957.86s

But the last of us is like it's gritty and grounded in a way that I think that would just not work. Again, I think it's a pretty silly example.

Speaker 31958.58s - 1962.1s

You know what needs to be, you know what I've never seen? You know what needs to be sexier? Red Dead Red Dead Redemption WORK_OF_ART.

Speaker 01962.9s - 1966.36s

Arthur PERSON should be out there. It's just not sexy.

Speaker 11966.48s - 1967.9s

Where's our chesty Arthur PERSON?

Speaker 31968.66s - 1985.78s

That's what I want to know. But to finish this thought on a serious note is that I, the reason I take umbrage with that is, is that what I, what I hear in that argument of like, this should be sexier is that is though that that corner of the internet going you should respect what

Speaker 01985.78s - 1989.62s

I want but what they're doing is not respecting what other people want in the process

Speaker 31992.32s - 1999.48s

also there's so many games surely we don't need to transform this one into yes the one that

Speaker 01999.48s - 2004s

exactly your preference that's back to that that's back to the hot sauce thing yeah but yeah yeah

Speaker 32004s - 2046.56s

like if if you Like if you want, if you want folks to like be on board and respect the fact that you want sexy ladies or sexy dudes in your game, let's use sexy ladies as an example. You need to also respect that some people want sexy dudes in their game. Or some people want realistic,like not hypersexualized characters in their game. Or that also just in storytelling, that's not always the most effective way to get your, to steep your audience in the world that you're building. Because you are going to question it, like the pile of fabricon your head. Sometimes, again, it depends on the story. I didn't really question quiet because it's MGS. It's basically anime and I'm used to watching shit like Gururenloggin and Kill A Kill ORG and they're both studio.

Speaker 02046.56s - 2048.66s

Kill A Kill ORG had a really good justification for it.

Speaker 22048.68s - 2053.68s

Kill A Kill ORG is a great example of like, did you probably came here for the eye candy.

Speaker 32053.88s - 2062.8s

You ended up staying and laughing your ass off for just how deep they go with the gag. Well, and that's my like, and that would be my personal preference on it. It's like, I love the Lord justification.

Speaker 02063.38s - 2085.04s

And when you get into the fact that the clothes have to have as little contact as possible because they're evil I'm like you sold it you got it we're done good bring it on yeah yeah Chessie Arthur PERSON is the name of my emo punk band I'll play guitar bless you let's start it right here now yeah yeah yeah so that's. Like, I don't know. Because I, I was,

Speaker 32085.04s - 2087.92s

before the, like,

Speaker 02088.5s - 2089.96s

the angry people showed up like,

Speaker 32090.12s - 2091.18s

oh, things should be sexier.

Speaker 02091.26s - 2093.1s

I'm like, wait, wait, no, we were making good progress.

Speaker 42093.3s - 2093.58s

Yes.

Speaker 02093.7s - 2100.2s

Like, I felt like we were all kind of meeting at the table and be like, what are you into? Okay, cool. Let's make games about that. What are you? And it was getting more,

Speaker 32101.02s - 2108.4s

I don't know, there was more, there was, there were enough strokes for enough folks. I love that saying. There was, there were enough strokes for enough folks. I love that saying.

Speaker 22108.4s - 2111.74s

As opposed to, you know. Listen, listen, y'all.

Speaker 02111.86s - 2113.5s

One stroke and the rest of the deal.

Speaker 22113.5s - 2115.02s

There are enough strokes for all folks.

Speaker 02115.76s - 2119.74s

We don't need to standardize the strokes. Exactly.

Speaker 32120.46s - 2123.82s

Yeah. Or force other strokes to be of different. Variety is the spice of life.

Speaker 02123.92s - 2125.16s

Exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 32125.94s - 2173.44s

Fabulous. Clip it and shit. If that's not clipped in the clip channel in our discord, I'm going to riot. I'm going to riot. All right. Cool.But I do think it's funny that we are having this conversation because I do follow by nature of knowing romance novel readers, quite a few romance novel memes on Instagram and whatnot. And they're just riding wild and free every day of life. And you got fan art, not fan artist, shippers, fanficers, they often get in a lot of online arguments. But maybe it's something to do with like the published nature of romance books,but man, they're just, they're just free. They do not give a damn what anybody thinks. Yeah,

Speaker 02173.54s - 2176.62s

and I think that's a, that can be a very healthy way to live your life.

Speaker 32176.82s - 2181.8s

It certainly would attract me to like the punk scene growing up. What are you looking up here?

Speaker 02181.8s - 2191.56s

I'm getting sidetracked because Kizco super that a game called Scarlet Blade had an underwear removal item at $20.

Speaker 32192.12s - 2197.32s

I have not hurt because I'm getting confused with Stellar Blade PRODUCT.

Speaker 02197.48s - 2203.58s

So I guess it was a according to Google ORG, an adult themed sci-fi fantasy MMO.

Speaker 32203.98s - 2205.26s

What was the rating on it?

Speaker 02206.16s - 2207.1s

How it reviewed?

Speaker 32207.66s - 2209.12s

Or, like, ESRB?

Speaker 22209.38s - 2210.76s

No, like, yeah, ESRB.

Speaker 02210.88s - 2211.76s

Okay, I'm going to Google ORG.

Speaker 32212.48s - 2213.12s

Because...

Speaker 02213.12s - 2215.3s

ESRB, because it also, like,

Speaker 32216.64s - 2218.22s

mature 17 plus.

Speaker 02218.32s - 2225.74s

Oh, interesting. Okay, so that's just... So they didn't smack it with the A-O. Oh, well, there you go.

Speaker 32225.98s - 2271.86s

There it is. So there's a game that I love. Total War Warhammer, two, three sort of. Anyway, we'll get into it. But it is a T-14 PRODUCT game. But you can buy and download a DLC,Blood for the Blood God WORK_OF_ART, that makes it more bloody. And adds blood, thereby making it mature. They were able to ship it as a T for teen game. And the DLC has its own unique rating? And they're able to make it mature. I think that's cool.So in this case, they were able to make their game mature, sell for $20, the underwear removal pack, which is not really a pack, but, you know, service. And therefore, make it adult only. And it's like the explicit lyrics tag that goes on some albums. Yeah?You know, like parental advisory explicit lyrics. Sure.

Speaker 22272.02s - 2279.12s

You know, there's plenty of artists where maybe the album doesn't have that, but you go to their live show and they're, you know, particularly foul-mouthed. Oh, sure, sure.

Speaker 02279.2s - 2287.92s

Yeah, and not quite the same, but now I'm thinking of, um... But similar, like, you have the base product and you can have an additional experience that might be more mature. Sure. I'm thinking of... But similar, like, you have the base product and you can have an additional experience that might be more

Speaker 32287.92s - 2299.58s

mature. Sure. I'm thinking of I like to ride my bicycle by Queen in that album art of a buttocks on a bicycle. I don't know, I've ever seen the album art for it, but you listen to a lot of singles on Spotify ORG. Yeah, so there's buttocks

Speaker 22299.58s - 2302s

riding a bicycle, and it was deemed

Speaker 02302s - 2303.98s

too saucy for American

Speaker 22303.98s - 2310.02s

audiences, so they arted on a bikini bottom onto the,

Speaker 32310.4s - 2313.38s

I want to ride my bicycle song by a queen. Oh, what's the, um,

Speaker 12313.76s - 2320.04s

inside they had a code where you could mail order the original poster to get the buttocks should you wish.

Speaker 32320.6s - 2338s

And that is more applicable. That's fantastic. Yes. That's fantastic. Well, that makes it, that's where like censorship works against you. Because then it like, it builds more of. That's fantastic. Yes. That's fantastic. Well, that makes it, that's where, like,censorship works against you because then it, like, it builds more of a legend about this. And it causes, causes even more attention to be brought to what you may have just been like, oh, hey,a butt. And then you moved on with a lot.

Speaker 02338s - 2361.88s

Which is what Larian Studios ORG did knowingly with the bear. Like, they knew. There was a vote, I believe, where they're like, hey, audiences,what relationship do you want to see that our system can pull it off? And there was a vote for, I think, a druid and a starian or a druid and vampire because no one who knew who starian was. Oh, okay. But they knew what they were doing. And they wrote it. And they wrote whatever backlash they got for it, which was ridiculous again, I'll say. But yeah, now you're

Speaker 32361.88s - 2388.6s

reminding me, I'm sorry, I was Rolling Stones ORG, it was Rolling Stones had a one of their LP releases. I think is it sticky fingers where it's just the, it's the close up of the crotch on jeans. The LP, the actual vinyl had a on, on it was a real zipper on the fly of the jeans. Really? And there was a shipping issue if the zipper was up. So they shipped, all of them shipped with the zipper down.And it was like a massive thing. This could be urban legend.

Speaker 22388.6s - 2401.92s

I don't know how much this still holds up to the test of time and being able to fact check because this is something I heard when I went to a rock and roll museum in the early 2000s, and then I never vetted it ever again.

Speaker 32402s - 2405.88s

I was Wikipedia ORG lovebugs recently, and there's an urban legend that they were made

Speaker 12405.88s - 2407.4s

by the University of Central Florida

Speaker 32407.4s - 2428.56s

to kill the mosquito population. Yeah. Corrick PERSON in the chat, apparently being an LP nerd, said that's a hell of a record, and it's pretty expensive with the zipper intact. Damn, all right.I like the stones. I was never a who kid. I was always more of a stones guy. I'm not. You're an Elvis PERSON guy. Yes, my dad was the big an kid. I was always more of a Stones guy. I'm not. You're an Elvis guy. Yes, my dad was the big an Elvis PERSON.

Speaker 02428.76s - 2430.06s

Never been a big Elvis PERSON guy.

Speaker 32431.14s - 2454.06s

But it's all good. And then Lira said, thanks for Super, I think it's literally just the natural evolution of video games. As for novels, magazines, television, I can't fathom surprise or pretense of abnormality being the reaction at large. Yeah, I can see that.That makes sense. But at the same time, I don't know. I still think it ebbs and flows because I think our, I'm not saying anything profound here,

Speaker 02454.06s - 2458.42s

but I think our relationship with sexuality evolves over time.

Speaker 32459.9s - 2499.84s

And something that I think is interesting to explore is what Jesse PERSON brought up in the video about the pandemic. A lot of people being alone for that. Yeah. And you also have a large population of people who are choosing to not get into relationships because they're complicated and expensive and messy. And in that modern age, the simplicity of having video games to service that need is available.There's nothing wrong with fantasy, whatever you're trying to get out of it. Yeah.

Speaker 42500s - 2501.36s

I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Speaker 32501.36s - 2505.42s

I think it can get unhealthy if you no longer recognize it as fantasy.

Speaker 42505.42s - 2514.94s

When you demand everything to be spicy. Yes. But, yeah, I think I think fantasy can be super healthy. I'm glad that you're mad and thirsty, Marco PERSON. Welcome to the party.

Speaker 02515.88s - 2518.14s

Welcome, welcome to the party.

Speaker 32518.48s - 2518.74s

All right.

Speaker 02519.18s - 2526.92s

Well, let's turn this to a different way people are getting excited on Steam ORG.

Speaker 32527.84s - 2574.98s

Okay. Because we don't make content on the weekend. And an entire massive video game war sparked, was fought and ended from when we went offline Thursday night to when we went live here on Monday afternoon. Okay. But it was effective, apparently. It was.We won. Democracy wins again. I feel like this is only rewarding bad behavior in my part. I won and I didn't participate at all. Democracy works. I mean... The world gets better around me.I have sat out voting before. I vote now, but I have sat it out before.

Speaker 22575.08s - 2576.28s

I've always done mail-in.

Speaker 32577.2s - 2582.72s

Well, that's literally sitting. I mean, I have elected to be like, I'm not going to vote. This is stupid. Oh, okay.

Speaker 02583.1s - 2586.12s

Oh, so the sand argument. Now your vote

Speaker 42586.12s - 2591.74s

doesn't matter. Yes. Yes. I have, I have not voted. You've been a part of that. Yeah. And if that makes

Speaker 32591.74s - 2596.1s

you mad, save your emails, I've heard all of, I've heard everything you could ever say to me. Okay.

Speaker 42596.5s - 2602.66s

And I'm voting now. Probably why you changed your mind too, so. Um, no, no, I've got pretty mad at a

Speaker 02602.66s - 2608.54s

certain point politically. Oh, so yeah, so you change your mind naturally. Yes. It didn't require bullying of that nature.

Speaker 32608.72s - 2610.1s

Correct. So anyway.

Speaker 02610.64s - 2618.98s

But good bullying is, what, vigilanteism? What's, they did it. They managed to tank the steam reviews down to mixed.

Speaker 32619.74s - 2626.46s

So hell divers could not connect to the PlayStation ORG network. So it came out. I think it's the start of Friday.

Speaker 02626.56s - 2638.46s

I think news broke that Sony was going to require anyone who had Hell Divers 2 on PC to create a PSN ORG account to continue playing the game.

Speaker 32639.06s - 2675.92s

And the creator said something along the lines of, I just wanted to get it out the door. I didn't want this complexity. Therefore, we shipped it without it. And we always intended to turn it on later. Yes.Which, this is a lesson I feel like every live service studio learns at some point, which is you cannot take things away that were once given freely. I do think, not often, but I do sometimes think about the Facebookification of BattleNet and what that would have been like. Do you remember when they were going to attach your real nameto your BattleNet ORG account?

Speaker 02676.32s - 2677.26s

So any time...

Speaker 32677.26s - 2686.8s

Two-part answer. I remember it. I don't know how that ties into this. It's changing a service. And people got really mad about it.

Speaker 22687.22s - 2693.42s

That's fair, but it was an update, not much change for you other than how you went,

Speaker 32694.32s - 2695.66s

how you were named on the service.

Speaker 02695.66s - 2696.72s

How you were gonna communicate.

Speaker 22696.72s - 2699s

This was adding a service to something you were already.

Speaker 42699s - 2700.34s

Yeah, but it is an interesting,

Speaker 22700.58s - 2701.6s

fascinating idea.

Speaker 42701.6s - 2709.38s

Like how would people conduct themselves with their real names on the Battle Nent Forum ORG? How would that have changed history? Yeah. And how people interacted with this.

Speaker 02710.38s - 2714.2s

Millennium King ORG, as I feel you often do, you're missing my point.

Speaker 32715.56s - 2717.56s

I'm not saying people didn't pay for the game.

Speaker 02717.56s - 2720.2s

But thank you for stating the obvious in chat.

Speaker 32721.78s - 2727.36s

But no, what I mean is something that was a given or not a given, you can't go back

Speaker 22727.36s - 2738.6s

on that once people get established and once you lure people into your service. What I was not saying was that the game was free because it's very plainly obvious that it was not free. You paid

Speaker 32738.6s - 2785.46s

for helltivers. That's why the battle pass, that looked like a battle pass was such a big deal because we had bought a game. And then there were points in there that got confusing and led to all that misunderstanding that happened on original launch. Oh, God, yes. Yes. Yes. There's, yes. There's just a lot like that. So, PlayStation, perhaps trying to muscle around with their first huge, crazy, amazing success of a non-Tripple-A ORG nature in a long time. And you can even include in that.And if we wanted to get into our AAA ORG games even going to exist in the future, are they financially viable? Is that why they had to target hell divers to try to put their mark on it? So everyone could sign up for the service. They could be like,

Speaker 12785.56s - 2790.96s

look, stockholders, look how many people signed up for PlayStation Network this month. Yes.

Speaker 32791s - 2807.06s

And they love rebirth. Like, no, no, it's fine. Well, that's how I look at this. I look at it like, like, Sony ORG, what are you doing? Here is Sony Sony ORG a company that

Speaker 02807.06s - 2821.6s

once already on the record this year had to be like we're not doing so hot on the sales and everyone's like yeah it's because you're not selling your shit on PC what do you what do you or it's horribly time gated on a massive delay we still can't

Speaker 32821.6s - 2830.56s

play final face 16 on PC and that was and you're looking at Square who just reported about like $140 million in losses. Oh, did they?

Speaker 02830.64s - 2835.8s

Yes. And you're like, huh, you know, it would help selling your games in more places.

Speaker 32836.62s - 2846.02s

Interesting. My brain, I'm not, I haven't been a part of this new cycle. My brain has been more like the, man, why does, why does final fantasy 14 WORK_OF_ART always say go play other games

Speaker 42846.02s - 2850.04s

probably because square actually makes other games square does make a lot of games they make a lot of

Speaker 12850.04s - 2853.9s

games so when they say go play other games they can actually sell you games that they've made and they're

Speaker 32853.9s - 2860.56s

putting out regularly yeah but so apparently Sony's not doing well and in general yeah and and chat ORG's

Speaker 42860.56s - 2867.14s

making a good point that it wasn't necessarily loss in sales it was like they canned roughly that amount in value of games currently in production.

Speaker 02867.34s - 2868.28s

In order to recover.

Speaker 42868.58s - 2868.86s

Yeah.

Speaker 02869.06s - 2873.96s

But connecting the dots, it doesn't seem that hard to go from like, well, why are they doing that?

Speaker 32873.96s - 2877.9s

It's like, well, because connected to the other games haven't sold as much as they were hoping.

Speaker 02879.1s - 2881.74s

But then also you can look at things like PS5 PRODUCT sales figures.

Speaker 32881.88s - 2885.6s

And it's like, PS5 PRODUCT's done pretty well, but it hasn't done as well as consoles in the past.

Speaker 02885.66s - 2897.32s

So like at a certain point, if it's only on the PS5, like there's a, you can only sell so many copies because only so many people can play this damn game because it's only on one console. Anyway, that's where my head's at.

Speaker 32897.46s - 2908.46s

That's all I'm trying to say. I'm not trying to win an argument or anything. No, no, no. That's where I'm coming from. So it's... My brain goes in so many places with this.

Speaker 02909.72s - 2928.5s

I look at this as like such squandered potential. It's like, finally, Sony ORG gets like, hey, you finally, you finally had a game that, like, moved massive units and was available in more than one place, even though it was a Sony ORG funded project because it's on PCand you still found a way

Speaker 32928.5s - 2953.66s

to shoot yourself in the foot with it. So what's the bad part about PlayStation Network outside of like being tricked, which is bad? I mean...I assume it's something to do with like connectivity like requiring a phone and not everyone has a phone to put in this machine or maybe, like, regional issues that would arise because Sony provides services here and Steam ORG provides services here.

Speaker 02953.66s - 2960.98s

Regional is a big one, because they ended up pulling the game from, I think, almost 200 countries of 170 and change companies.

Speaker 32961.14s - 2966.86s

They pulled Helldivers, too, from once they sort of rolling this this out because PSN ORG is just not available in those countries.

Speaker 02967.98s - 2971.36s

Oh, so they're like, sorry, we can't even provide service.

Speaker 32971.36s - 2975.6s

Which makes it be like, okay, were you actually planning on this the whole time?

Speaker 02975.68s - 2981.84s

Because why would you even have put the game out in that territory in the first place? Hmm.

Speaker 32983.92s - 2999.72s

Yeah. The other huge one and chat, a lot of people are dropping it here, is it's another place for a potential breach of your personal credentials. And PSN ORG has been hacked multiple times over the past.

Speaker 02999.78s - 3001.18s

Spontaneous backup, yes.

Speaker 43001.94s - 3002.26s

What?

Speaker 33002.52s - 3004.22s

Spontaneous backup. Spontaneous backup?

Speaker 03004.22s - 3008.12s

Yeah, when someone hacks them. I'm confused.

Speaker 33008.44s - 3014.62s

Sorry, it's not called a breach. It's called a spontaneous backup. It's a classic meme.

Speaker 43015.16s - 3017.8s

Oh, I'm completely unaware of it. Okay, yes, there you go.

Speaker 03018.04s - 3022.14s

I'm completely unaware of it. Yes. Yeah.

Speaker 33023.1s - 3027.9s

Okay. So, has Sony ORG had an issue with that in the past? Yes, they've been hacked multiple times.

Speaker 03027.98s - 3034.6s

Okay, okay. Because the DMV ORG got hacked in Oregon while I was there. That was an issue. That's where I'm a little cool on this argument. Like,I'm not,

Speaker 33034.66s - 3057.42s

I was heated in, for the love of God, Sony ORG, just take the W. Why are you building an L? Like,you won. Why are you making this worse? I personally don't, I have a PSN. I've been hacked. I've had my shit to cover by so many times. And honestly, I'm probably a giant beacon for the problem.I should probably care more.

Speaker 03057.88s - 3061.62s

We should all probably care more about our personal online security.

Speaker 33062.06s - 3064.34s

I sing the praises of the Darknet Diaries WORK_OF_ART podcast,

Speaker 03064.34s - 3077.14s

and I've learned so much about being secure on the internet from that show. But at the end of the day, I'm like, I can't even shop a Target ORG without them leaking my shit.

Speaker 33077.4s - 3077.6s

Yeah.

Speaker 03077.72s - 3087.72s

The Target had that huge breach a few years back. What am I to do? Stop stopping a Target ORG? No, because then I got to go to Walmart ORG and smell people. Has Walmart ORG never had a breach?

Speaker 33088.24s - 3089s

Actually, I have no idea.

Speaker 23089s - 3111.78s

I have no idea. Probably. But no, I too own. I have no clue. I just, the cops have shown up to our local Walmart like three times in the last year. I hate going to our local Walmart ORG.There's like, and like I have all those freezes and stuff. Like, I do the online security thing too. So I understand where people are coming from on that point. I was a little from the outside, though, I am a bit confused because if I wanted to play Helldivers PRODUCT, and I logged in and it said,

Speaker 33112.5s - 3124.9s

please enter your PlayStation ORG password. I'd be like, well, it's kind of weird, but okay, let me. So it sounds like the territory things is probably the most egregious of those unless people have others. I think so. It depends on it depends on you.

Speaker 03124.9s - 3127.32s

Because then you're taking away something that I own

Speaker 23127.32s - 3131.32s

ideally. That to me, I think, is more egregious. But the thing I saw

Speaker 03131.32s - 3148.82s

the most anecdotally over the weekend on my social where people being like, PSN ORG gets hacked like clockwork. This sucks. Screw you. I don't trust you. I don't want this. There's always pushback on this kind. There was pushback out in Steam ORG. You remember that. You were alive for that when we're all like, well, we don't want all our games under this what have you decided to close shop one

Speaker 33148.82s - 3155.76s

day yes um again this isn't necessarily the same argument no and that's a example where you know

Speaker 03155.76s - 3159.74s

we often say like well why are they get a lot to get well because trust like there's the trust right

Speaker 43159.74s - 3167.24s

there that's why we trust steam is because they do do a good job. Also, Sony ORG doesn't have that trust right now.

Speaker 33167.36s - 3169.24s

We know about their sales being down.

Speaker 43169.38s - 3174.9s

I assume everything's just going to go like switch style in the future with a dock and handheld ability.

Speaker 03175.12s - 3177.82s

Because that's what's getting us away from our computers anyway.

Speaker 33178.22s - 3182.42s

So they're all struggling to catch up because the switch keeps selling it.

Speaker 03183.64s - 3184.94s

So who knows?

Speaker 33187.24s - 3220.02s

Yeah. Anyway, yeah's that's my point is like I wasn't supremely personally invested because I'm like well I already have a PSON something you'll scan off my back but it it was it's just another one of these classic things of like like I don't need to be personally invested to see why it's a really just, it's massive buffoonery. Like, obviously, how could you not see this coming? This is not what most players on Steam ORG agree to when they buy a game on Steam, even though there are other examples of this.

Speaker 03221.18s - 3223.34s

But, but we all hate it.

Speaker 33223.34s - 3232.58s

We all hate the additional launcher. And then the response from Sony was among the most tone deaf not since Wizards of the Coast and Dungeons and Dragons

Speaker 03232.58s - 3240.56s

have it? Have we seen a response? I saw multiple things but it wasn't like one response over the course of the weekend they just got doubling down

Speaker 33240.56s - 3243.52s

of how their service was going to

Speaker 03243.52s - 3245.18s

enrich this experience,

Speaker 23245.34s - 3248.4s

even though we all know that pressing launch on Steam

Speaker 03248.4s - 3250.28s

is the enriched experience we wish.

Speaker 33250.74s - 3251.9s

Yeah, it would have been one,

Speaker 03252.08s - 3255.02s

it would have been one thing if this was in from the get-go

Speaker 23255.02s - 3260.44s

to turn it on after this many millions of people have come on board

Speaker 33260.44s - 3293.92s

and shook your hand and agreed to, I agree to play this game the way I understand I'm playing it right now when I buy it right now is, that's a really bad strategy. So it seems like Steams ORG where we're going to be taking this out in the future. But I guess that makes sense.This is the primary sales point. And Ruing said sales point, ruin the shop front, would be the correct mode of protest. Yeah. There was just no value ad is the way I see it. Like, what are you offering? Like, I jump through hoops with Microsoftbecause it's

Speaker 03293.92s - 3295.96s

game pat. What they're offering is a

Speaker 33295.96s - 3297.94s

shit ton of more games that I don't have access to.

Speaker 03298s - 3299.92s

I'll log into my Microsoft ORG account, which is a pain in

Speaker 33299.92s - 3334.26s

the ass. And getting to actually play nice on Windows PRODUCT, a Microsoft product is also a pain in the ass window when like Microsoft ORG game pass for PC is a janky experience I'm glad I'm happy to have it I get to play games for free but it's not seamless but like what am I getting with a PSN ORG the game already works without it what are you doing so like I get all of that so people felt to see ifyeah 100% and they should have. They were. I believe here what's that too. And I think we said earlier, like inflate those numbers. Like how many PlayStation ORG users we have, even though they're not actually using the place.

Speaker 23334.26s - 3347.24s

I mean, at the end of the day, it's just data collection, which is valuable. You can sell it like the cruise lines do. Yes. But bought a used car over this weekend. And they're like signed here and here.

Speaker 33348.44s - 3354.44s

And I signed the first line. I look at the second line. I'm like, you give, like, optional, you give us the right to sell your information.I'm like,

Speaker 03355.08s - 3361.62s

do I have to sign that? It says optional. And he's like, I think you do. I'm like, well,it says optional. And I really don't feel like you selling my data.

Speaker 33361.86s - 3368.6s

Yeah. And he wasn't going to not sell a car because I wasn't going to sign that line. Everybody's trying to sell your shit.

Speaker 03368.8s - 3376.44s

I've always gotten the telemarketers right after a cruise anytime it happens. That's a weird. That's a weird thing.

Speaker 33376.78s - 3377.88s

I wonder how much it costs.

Speaker 03378.56s - 3385.32s

I mean, it would be valuable information because you're clearly marked as someone who will pay for a vacation experience.

Speaker 33385.68s - 3391.8s

Sure. Because usually it's like a Hilton or Hyatt ORG or someone trying to sell you a timeshare. So like you're right in their target demographic.

Speaker 23391.8s - 3393.58s

Yeah, but how much is it cost them?

Speaker 43393.74s - 3399.4s

Like do you just buy bulk number? You know, 10 cents a pop or am I actually pretty price it to get a hold of?

Speaker 33399.44s - 3426.02s

Data, it would probably depend on your, you're not the same price everywhere. You're different prices based on the demographics that you are in the bucket of that's getting sold. Different demographics are more valuable than other demographics. Creepy. I went to school for this. Don't use it as often.I'm not as evil as I sound, I promise. So we're good now, though, right? So we won and hell divers can be played again without the moral

Speaker 03426.02s - 3439.5s

repercussions of participating. Essentially this morning, like this is new news. Like we're never this lucky on a Monday that we get news this hot and fresh. Sony ORG said no, we're notgoing forward with it. So

Speaker 33439.5s - 3442.16s

good. Like good on them.

Speaker 03442.36s - 3447.42s

Like as someone who, like I've been multiple times out, I wasn't that into it.

Speaker 33448.14s - 3449.74s

Like, I personally was like, whatever.

Speaker 03449.94s - 3452.2s

I don't get my PS-in. It's fine. I already have one.

Speaker 33452.82s - 3460.16s

But I understood the massive kind of communal, like, community strategy ball drop that this was.

Speaker 03460.22s - 3461.22s

I was happy to see this.

Speaker 33461.46s - 3482.3s

Because it's a great game. And also, it sucks for the Hell Diver's ORG studio. Oh, yes. It really sucks for them. The game got like tens of thousands of new negative reviews on Steam over the weekend. It altered its very positive score.And there was, it seemed like in the Discord PRODUCT,

Speaker 03482.42s - 3489.64s

we were like the community managers were kind of getting wrecked over the coals. I know some people are getting mad at them, but again, I don't know.

Speaker 33489.74s - 3493.74s

I'm biased. I've known a lot of community managers in my time. They are single people.

Speaker 23494.04s - 3495.86s

And when you come for them, it's draining.

Speaker 33496.3s - 3502.36s

Well, and how many times have we heard now? We didn't know collectively that corporate ORG was doing X maneuver. Yeah.

Speaker 23502.36s - 3504.32s

So just to be blindsided by it.

Speaker 33505s - 3518.78s

That's the part that is bothersome. Hundreds of, did they get up to hundreds of thousands? The last time I looked at it, I saw it said it was tens of thousands, but I believe that.That's the part that's bothersome. It's like those reviews aren't going to be turned around now. And a lot of people are going to leave

Speaker 43518.78s - 3521.04s

those bad reviews and play tonight. That's what it's like,

Speaker 33521.12s - 3540.9s

I don't want to sound like I'm on my soapbox, but that's what I would like to see happen. Like, hey, y'all, I don't want to sound like I'm on my soapbox, but that's what I would like to see happen. Like, hey, y'all, if we're going to get this,this mad and try to affect change through review bombing, I think we should also be stand-up players that when we get the result we want, we should go back and adjust our review. I think that's,

Speaker 03541.02s - 3541.78s

to me,

Speaker 23541.78s - 3542.32s

that's fair.

Speaker 03542.9s - 3543.8s

To me, that's honorable.

Speaker 33544.4s - 3556.44s

Something's wrong with my computer. Found that Reddit from 15 years ago, fix the problem. Close that's, I think to me that's fair. To me, that's honorable. Something's wrong with my computer. Found that Reddit from 15 years ago. Fix the problem. Close that window, man. I'm done. Are they doing the same thing here?You know, that's, that's no good. If you're going to be involving yourself.

Speaker 03556.44s - 3564.2s

It is slowly course correcting. Okay. So I'm happy to hear that. I took a quick peek, but I, we also had a recording today.

Speaker 33564.46s - 3571.94s

So I usually like to research things a little bit better than this, but I didn't have a chance to take a look at it where it is now and compare it to where it was over the weekend.

Speaker 43571.94s - 3573.94s

Oh, wow, they got it down to overwhelmingly negative.

Speaker 03574.3s - 3576.64s

So I only saw it when it was mixed over the weekend.

Speaker 23576.8s - 3581.2s

I had to be hundreds of them. Because that's why I'm aware of it because, you know, I really wanted to play some hell divers.

Speaker 33581.96s - 3589s

And then, well, actually, the day I was going to invite you to play hell divers with me, I ended up at the car tire place for four hours.

Speaker 23589s - 3589.78s

Oh, Friday? Yeah.

Speaker 03590s - 3592.86s

An SUV got stuck on the alignment thing.

Speaker 33593.06s - 3594s

Oh, no.

Speaker 23594.52s - 3599.48s

Get it off in a laborious process. And I was next in line. It kept being like, you're next in line, bro.

Speaker 03599.7s - 3600.8s

I was that person once.

Speaker 23601.06s - 3634.7s

Yeah, you got stuck. When I had the ex-tera that we refer to in grinding gear as the scam terra, I went to go get it alignment. I think it was, so it was a six bolt lug pattern. They took off both right side wheels.And I think of 12 bolts, eight broke. So the studs. Wow. Eight wheel studs broke. And so it was just stuck on the machine.They can't put wheels back on it to get it off the machine. So that was the, in that four hours, I was going to get back in two and I was going to invite you to play hell divers. So that night, I looked up hell divers and was just going to pine at it for a little bit. I just like, maybe read up on how what guns are doing.

Speaker 33634.7s - 3654.48s

Yeah, and just be like, you know, I can't play right now, but I'm just going to like absorb it. And I saw that mixed review. And it sent me. I went investigating. That didn't seem right.Yeah. No, no. It doesn't seem right. Yeah. No, no. It's, it sucks. Is it the worst gaming controversy of all time?Absolutely freaking not. We come from Blizzard ORG. Let me tell you about gaming controversies.

Speaker 43655.32s - 3659.68s

But it is like for a company that I look at,

Speaker 33659.72s - 3678.24s

and this is my bias coming through, I'm editorializing. Hi, everybody. As someone I look at Sony ORG and I go, you need to get your shit together on the PC front and actually move some units because it seems likea lot of the studios that are directly tied to you and make exclusives of you are suffering as a result of your dogmatic inability to actually adjust and put shit out in more places. Well, and outside of Nintendo ORG, that's like,

Speaker 23678.24s - 3682.3s

just the bad decision across the board is these exclusives.

Speaker 33682.44s - 3694.44s

And granted, there's not that many outside of Nintendo ORG left because you have GamePass PRODUCT that goes onto your computer. So Sony ORG's really the only one kind of holding games hostage right now. And I think it's causing a lot of bad will.

Speaker 03694.44s - 3696.38s

Nintendo ORG holds plenty of games hostage.

Speaker 23696.56s - 3698.02s

But Nintendo ORG, if that's the way you want to put it.

Speaker 33698.08s - 3705.8s

But Nintendo is in a different market demographic because the cost of the Switch PRODUCT, how long the switch has been on the scene compared to the Xbox Series X and the PS5 PRODUCT.

Speaker 23705.8s - 3710.62s

Exactly. It's, it's an older machine. It's always been a more affordable machine.

Speaker 33711.98s - 3742.94s

Like, so it, it, you have to, I feel like, like, I don't personally weigh those things. Because as I've mentioned many times, like, when I was a kid, I'm like, I can't wait to be adult. I'm going to buy every console. And I still have that. And I'm so happy I'm living my dream. Ha ha, I'm bawling. I got all the consoles. I don't know that's all I've ever wanted.And I'm never going to let that dream die unless I'm totally broke. So I just buy all the consoles because I love having them. Makes me happy. Am I shallow? Yes. Am I also happy?Also yes. But, um, in that department.

Speaker 13742.94s - 3757.9s

I don't weigh that because I'm like, yeah, I can afford it. I'm an enthusiast about this. This is my big friggin hobby that I'm going to invest in. But I do think when you look at it as a whole and you're trying to think about the strategy of all this and kind of weighing how mad people should be,

Speaker 33758.82s - 3768.56s

Nintendo ORG is in kind of its own market in terms of like how much their exclusives are locked behind a wall versus how much Microsoft exclusives and how much Sony ORG exclusives are locked behind a wall versus how much Microsoft exclusives and how much Sony ORG exclusives are locked behind a wall.

Speaker 43768.68s - 3769s

Okay.

Speaker 33769.46s - 3848.14s

Nintendo ORG. The cost to enter Nintendo ORG's ecosystem is much lower than the competition. Because, yeah, I love Microsoft ORG. I think they're, I see them as very, uh, consumer positive because of the fact that a lot of their games are availableon PC day and date. But you know what's not cheap? A PC. And you know what is one of the more expensive consoles to buyon Xbox PRODUCT? So their cost to just enter the ecosystem is high. So it doesn't, you know,yeah, okay, cool, I can play their games wherever I want. But, you know,if you are on a budget, that's something you need to contend with. Well said. So, anyways, I'll just, just take the wins, Sony ORG. Jesus. My God. Don't you like money, Sony ORG?How it just means more games like helldivers in the future I do too and more freedom for the devs but hey more democracy for the devs yes exactly more freedom and democracy yes yes so be careful Tony PERSON we'll manage democracy all over the place we willwe'll do it we'll freaking do it but yeah yeah because like when I talk to my man too like when I talk to my friends and they're like,

Speaker 03848.18s - 3848.72s

what should I get?

Speaker 33848.92s - 3849.68s

You're into games, Garrett PERSON.

Speaker 03849.78s - 3851.72s

If I get one console, what should I get?

Speaker 33851.74s - 3852.44s

Because I already got a PC.

Speaker 03852.52s - 3854.96s

I'm like at the PS5 PRODUCT because to me that was the exclusives to have.

Speaker 33856.72s - 3872.02s

But it would be nice if you could just play their damn games on the PC. The exclusives that I like playing on PlayStation over the years have all been M. So it's lost a lot of value in that regard to my life.

Speaker 03872.02s - 3873.76s

That is not an answer if you're asking that question for a child.

Speaker 33874.18s - 3889.84s

No, I know. I'm asking, but like for me, like right now the Switch PRODUCT, when I'm like, oh man, these elves are kind of dressed sexy and I'm like holding my little switch here. Like, it's fine. And I like that. Grant, I could get a PlayStation ORG handheld if I really wanted to, you know, keep going at's fine. And I like that. Granted, I could get a PlayStation handheld if I really wanted to,you know, keep going at Last of Us or something like that.

Speaker 03889.84s - 3893.8s

I mean, my dad had bikini ladies up in the garage and I turned out fine. It didn't affect me at all.

Speaker 33893.88s - 3895.84s

No, not at all. None whatsoever.

Speaker 03896.16s - 3903.72s

Nope. It's not why you remember it as some sort of formative memory at all. It's ready to come in and be like,

Speaker 33903.82s - 3904.72s

and that's why.

Speaker 13904.72s - 3906.14s

And that's the reason. And that's the reason.

Speaker 03906.4s - 3907.44s

And that's the reason.

Speaker 43907.6s - 3908.82s

Garrett PERSON's into what he's into.

Speaker 03909.58s - 3910s

Yeah.

Speaker 33910.2s - 3915.62s

Anyway. Boy, I really feel like we really opened our souls for the internet to see.

Speaker 03915.62s - 3919.5s

I think so. I think they got a good look at us behind the curtain today.

Speaker 23920.12s - 3934.36s

Yeah. As if Final Fantasy 14 PRODUCT and its many, political and economic situations weren't enough. Now you know our opinions on horniness and democracy. And here, look at us.

Speaker 03934.36s - 3940.76s

Look at us all having a sane conversation. They say you should never talk about sex religion or politics. Exactly.

Speaker 33941.22s - 3941.44s

Yeah.

Speaker 03942.78s - 3944.14s

It's easy when we're all in agreement.

Speaker 33945.88s - 3948.76s

What if your religion is sexy anime girls, though?

Speaker 03949.44s - 3951.94s

That is why they have shrines.

Speaker 33954.8s - 3955.28s

Oh.

Speaker 03956.5s - 3958.74s

Like, you didn't have been Nickelodeon ORG.

Speaker 33958.94s - 3962.3s

I was going to say, like, the girl in, hey Arnold PERSON. Oh, did she have a shrine?

Speaker 03962.38s - 3972.22s

Yeah. People have shrines. Yeah. Yeah, people have shrines. Absolutely. Dedications.All right. Gotcha. Gotcha. Wonderful. So.

Speaker 33972.84s - 3988.84s

Oh, excuse me. We could roll. How are we doing? If you want to ask a question in the stream right now, tagging at grinding gear makes it easier to see. As we have had a great range of conversation today. Yep. I know we had a question

Speaker 03988.84s - 3994.68s

in Ask the host chat if we were ever going to do a Final Fantasy PRODUCT music focused video. And the

Speaker 33994.68s - 3999.46s

answer is probably not. We're not musicians. It is not our area of expertise. Though I did have a

Speaker 23999.46s - 4004.74s

thought this weekend that I absolutely love. I'm so D&D starved right now. So my brain is constantly

Speaker 04004.74s - 4025.82s

going there. I would love to play a bard and at level one pick a flute or something kind of simple and actually learn music as the campaign advances. It's like level one I show up with my recorder and I'm shit, you know, but I'm level one. But in real life, I'm practicing. Come level five, you know, I'm starting to get okay at it.

Speaker 24025.9s - 4026.06s

You know,

Speaker 34026.08s - 4075.82s

we've been at this campaign for about six months. I started picking up some other instruments I'm playing with the crew. And I'm playing those at the campaignaround people as I'm advancing myself in real life. Was Hades II discussed today? As we went live We saw that it was hitting early access Which I was like holy butts what the crapSo I'm gonna try and figure that out later But yeah no we haven't played it or anything We also didn't do the technical Preview No but I'm not gonna like Go nutsTrying to figure out if I like something I think I already like You know I'm not gonna participate in, I already like Hades too. Yeah. And it would be a surprise to me if I don't like it. So I'm not watching any of the previews or demos because I'm thinking to myself,

Speaker 04075.92s - 4085.54s

I already want it. I listen to like the two gaming podcasts that I listen to regularly, Nextlander and Giant Bomb over the weekend. And they both seem pretty happy with it. They said, that sure, that sure, sure, that sure is more Hades WORK_OF_ART.

Speaker 34085.74s - 4086s

Perfect.

Speaker 04086s - 4086.7s

New mechanics.

Speaker 34086.86s - 4087.5s

That's all we want.

Speaker 04088.7s - 4114.18s

Because Hades WORK_OF_ART, really, its only problem is repetitiveness. I don't want to play more Hades WORK_OF_ART one because I've been to that damn coliseum and fought that damn guy too many times. And yeah, the powers and the skulls and all that. It's interesting. And I don't know.I could do another Hades WORK_OF_ART run right now. My brother-in-law, he, you know, he was an engineer on military subs. You know, he'd go out there without the internet six months. Brought Hades with him.

Speaker 34114.96s - 4123.28s

Hell yeah. Damn. Good choice. That's wild. Right? So he was always stocking up on these games that would just let him go and go.And he beat, he beat it.

Speaker 24123.4s - 4124.84s

Like, I'm not even an air quote. He beat it.

Speaker 04124.84s - 4126.52s

He beat it in the fall. And every definition you might hold. You can, yeah. he beat, he beat it. Like, I'm not even an air quote. He beat it. He beat it in the form.

Speaker 14126.64s - 4129.42s

And every definition you might hold. You can, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 34129.5s - 4178.9s

You could do it. Yeah. Shout out to Click Crisis and Steve Schultz PERSON. I'm having trouble deciphering the blues, but one of you's a new member, one of you re-uped yourself. Welcome and thank you.Thank you. Appreciate it. It works, favorite hot sauce. Ah, some random, like, no-name Javonero PRODUCT thing that Katie used to be able to getfrom Publix ORG, but they stopped selling, and I'm crying because I'm pretty sure we threw away the last bottle. I don't remember what's called, and I need to find it.Yeah, Trader Joe's ORG had a really nice, like, chalky one for a bit, but they don't even carry barbecue chips anymore, I don't.Yeah, we're actually on the search for a new favorite hot sauce right now. I will say Katie got me the, from the Hot Ons brand from the YouTube ORG series. Sure. They're, they're, um, those bastards.What? I can't, what, they make an interview show and now they're selling hot sauce. What a con. Playing the long con.

Speaker 04179.02s - 4191.58s

They're geniuses. Getting hot. How are they bass? They're smart. That's what I'm saying. Like, you know, they always just, they never wanted to do interviews.They don't even like Conan PERSON. They're not trying to sell you on Hamway FAC. At least they're giving you. They just wanted to sell hot sauce and they had a, they had an idea.

Speaker 34191.76s - 4199.24s

There's a pretty high chance that if you watch that content, you're into hot sauce. So it's, I thought you just want to see people suffer. That too. Yeah.

Speaker 44199.32s - 4206.54s

But maybe you yourself enjoy the suffer every once in a while. Um, they have a Los Calientes PRODUCT. It's like a Verde,

Speaker 34206.54s - 4240.72s

a Verde hot sauce, which I usually don't like any sort of like salsa verde or anything. I'm much, I'm like, give me classic red tomato based sauces and hot sauces. Um, but this one, it's delicious. It's Los, the Los Calientes is god damn delicious. Is it such a good hot sauce? It's not extremely hot, which I usually, I don't like a lot of garlic in my hot sauce. I feel like it takes over.Okay. But this is like one of those just like, damn, the flavor is really good. Like I'm into, usually I come to hot sauce for the heat and have the flavor. This, this, like, I'm here for this for the flavor.

Speaker 04240.9s - 4246.38s

This song slaps. Constantly wowed by how many different kinds of connoisseur you are.

Speaker 34247.1s - 4259.94s

You get into so many things. It's cool to see. I do not mean this as self-dismissive or dismissive towards you. It's what happens when you have kids, man. Yeah. Like, you just...No, I can absolutely understand that.

Speaker 24260s - 4268.34s

Your time goes elsewhere. Yeah. Like, well, I went through a Transformers PRODUCT phase, right? Because I was enjoying it alongside the three-year-old at the time. elsewhere. Yeah. Like, well, and I went through a Transformers phase, right? Because I was enjoying it alongside the three-year-old at the time. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 34268.34s - 4272.72s

And Katie took the lead on that, not me. That's fine.

Speaker 04272.8s - 4275.42s

I was, and like, cars. She took the lead on that.

Speaker 34276.3s - 4299.68s

She, we got our first car that was interesting enough for there to be car meets specifically for that car because she was interested in that car. And it was an affordable car so we got it and then people kept talking to us the gas stationswere like, okay, I guess this car is a thing and then we started watching car content and then she came to me one day and was like, there's a meet of like 300 of this car in Orlando GPE, we should goand we went there and that way like those the lid popping off of all this shit.

Speaker 24300.24s - 4300.94s

That's because Katie,

Speaker 44301.08s - 4301.52s

something, yeah.

Speaker 24302.02s - 4305.7s

So Katie takes a lead on a lot of this stuff that is surprises to you.

Speaker 34306.46s - 4344.48s

It's usually like, I'm along for the ride. Like, we just watch hot ones. And then suddenly two Christmases ago, she got me last dab and whatever the one that everyone hates is. Shit. Damn, rough present. Oh, yeah, that one does actually suck.Last dab is surprisingly delicious. It's hot as shit. And if you do a one time I ate a whole public sub with it, like I just kept adding drops of it. And by the end of it, I can't. That one does actually suck. Last app is surprisingly delicious. It's hot as shit. And if you do a, one time I ate a whole public sub with it, like, I just kept adding drops of it. And by the end of it, I was in extreme pain. Oh. But I can do like at least two chicken tenders in the last dab and be perfectly fine.But that shit builds. That shit builds. I'm paused on the chat so I don't lose it. I'm sure someone's reminding me of the name of the, of the, let me open up another.

Speaker 24352.12s - 4356.02s

Dual screen. I'm a dual chat. Yeah. go. You know what? I can just copy this. We're doing it live, everybody. That's a good idea. We're doing it live. So I'm going to have a live live chat.

Speaker 34356.02s - 4362.44s

I'm going to have a live chat. DeBom. Yeah. DeBom is actual suck. Like it's pain. Um,

Speaker 24362.84s - 4367.72s

you should try it sometime. Kyle PERSON sometime Kyle no I don't think I

Speaker 34367.72s - 4371.56s

do you like spicy food I thought you like spicy food if I have generous amounts of

Speaker 04371.56s - 4377.5s

sour cream and it has to be tofu due because I'm such a gentle soul oh that doesn't count

Speaker 24377.5s - 4380.54s

then yeah you're like you're just cutting it with so much dairy you're not even feeling it

Speaker 34380.54s - 4392.82s

yeah I like green sauce so you're in like. So you're in like, you're a salsa verde guy. Yeah. Katie loves like salsa verde. She's all about that shit. Because I cannot

Speaker 04392.82s - 4400.16s

do Thai spicy. That is like death. Yeah. Yeah. I haven't picked up Pades PRODUCT too yet. No, but I'm going

Speaker 34400.16s - 4404.86s

after the show. Let me tell you. Let me tell you. When are we going to do? NWalker Extreme trials.

Speaker 04404.86s - 4408.26s

We're getting that question a lot. And the answer is this. I told

Speaker 34408.26s - 4412.1s

our good friend of Zumi PERSON this on Friday because Zumi asked. Oh, yeah. I think Zumi's

Speaker 04412.1s - 4417.26s

excited to do it. Also, apparently, I hope I'm not out and I'm not putting Yom PERSON last too much here

Speaker 34417.26s - 4424.38s

Zumi PERSON. But apparently Azumi's real life friends are super stoked that Zumi is like our go

Speaker 24424.38s - 4425.68s

my go to take buddy

Speaker 04425.68s - 4428.04s

and is always like trying to get

Speaker 34428.04s - 4435.7s

GG info from Azumi Oh. It's like, hey, hey, have they talked about savages that? If they talked about extremes that Azumi PERSON is confided in me all.

Speaker 04435.96s - 4439.04s

Yeah, that's true. And I'm just, and every time I'm like, assuming I'm like

Speaker 34439.04s - 4467.82s

legitimately don't know. Like y'all pretty much find out stuff more or less when we know we can do it. So extremes right now are filed deeply under the painfully not on the calendar yet. Like, we really want to do them, but we also want to make a concerted effort to try and make Dontero PRODUCT launch. And you may have noticed we were still doing Stormblood PRODUCT extremes in the breaks of our end walker content. So yes.

Speaker 44467.82s - 4474.42s

They will flow when the time is right. Yes. Yes. We hear you. We're listening.

Speaker 34475.5s - 4476.84s

Don't do that.

Speaker 04477.46s - 4478.34s

Don't do that.

Speaker 34478.64s - 4478.78s

Yeah.

Speaker 04478.86s - 4502.22s

And I just want to be, my review or recover. I want to be really clear about like we're trying to make Dantra PRODUCT launch. And I sometimes maybe I read read it with too much gusto but I see comments like you're not going to make it and I read it with like aggression. And I'm and I just want to like be clear like we're fine not making it but we're going to try. Yeah. We're more and more the way we do things in our

Speaker 34502.22s - 4526.82s

play through a four team with grinding year has just come down to us doing what we're excited about and what feels right to us. And so we're excited about Don Trail PRODUCT and we want to try. But what we're not going to do is go so fast that we feel like we're forced or we're not taking the time with the NWalker Patch PRODUCT content that we have taken with everything else up to this point. And the whole goal of that, like if we're having, you know, if we're having a meeting here,

Speaker 04526.86s - 4532.26s

we don't mean everybody, would be so we can enjoy Dawn Trail PRODUCT release,

Speaker 34533.16s - 4540.64s

but it's sure shit's going to go right back to Gigi PERSON style content. Like, then there'll be an extreme the next week. Yes. While we make a video or something.

Speaker 24541.02s - 4552.22s

For me in my head, and this can change change the perfect thing would be the Thursday after public launch not early access so Thursday of launch week we do like the first zone or like

Speaker 44552.22s - 4565.74s

you probably have an option of two yeah I think we do the first zone and then I think it's I'm going to the keys anyway yeah so we celebrate the launch of don trail we get a taste we get a taste of what don trail has to give us. And then I'm going to

Speaker 24565.74s - 4570.3s

abscond with the love of my life and disappear to the tropics for a little while for the summer,

Speaker 44570.3s - 4574.56s

for the summer vacay. But, um, but yeah, we'll. And if the servers are busy, like,

Speaker 24574.56s - 4578.08s

that's just part of that like, like being part of the experience. Yeah. And we'll,

Speaker 44578.08s - 4581.82s

I mean, that Thursday, we could get up at 8 a.m. and start the login process and hopefully from by

Speaker 24581.82s - 4585.1s

8 p.m. we're in. Yeah. So we have all kinds of things.

Speaker 44585.18s - 4586.46s

When Savage PERSON, yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 24586.58s - 4587.12s

We want to.

Speaker 44587.24s - 4589.22s

I don't know is the answer to that.

Speaker 24589.34s - 4589.52s

Yeah.

Speaker 44589.94s - 4591.84s

We're cats on the other side of that door.

Speaker 04592.48s - 4594.3s

Samia PERSON on the other side of that door.

Speaker 34594.42s - 4595.12s

Cat is on that.

Speaker 04595.2s - 4595.66s

We don't bring,

Speaker 44595.8s - 4596.58s

you don't bring Carth PERSON with you.

Speaker 24596.58s - 4598.36s

No, Carth is a one cat.

Speaker 44598.52s - 4600.32s

Man, he does not like other cats.

Speaker 34600.48s - 4605.58s

Dexter PERSON, Carth reminds me so much of Dexter that I kind of want to schedule a kitty play date.

Speaker 04605.88s - 4606.58s

Kitty play date?

Speaker 34608.18s - 4610.38s

If you come to us, because he will yell.

Speaker 24610.9s - 4612.56s

He will yell his whole way.

Speaker 04612.68s - 4619.66s

I think that's the way to do. Dexter also yells the whole way there, but I'm used to it because our vet is 30 minutes away. So, yeah.

Speaker 34620.7s - 4629.44s

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I've heard that too, Millennium King ORG, but, you know, we're excited. We're excited. Talking about views not being so good on launch.

Speaker 04645.4s - 4645.44s

Oh, sure. No, we'll so quickly fall behind. I mean, again, yeah, look at the track record. Yeah. The speed. Exactly. Exactly. And there have been, there have been sometimes where that doesn't always line up with our experience because there are people who are like, don't watch the Don Trail PRODUCT trailer. People were going to be mad.

Speaker 34646.3s - 4650.7s

And some people were mad. But our Don Trail PRODUCT stream had a really good turnout.

Speaker 04651.84s - 4655.94s

Also, it was just a lot of fun. We had a lot of fun hanging with you all that. That would have been the second fan fest because that's one where we streamed the day after.

Speaker 34656.24s - 4660.1s

Or the benchmark, too. We had a really good time with the benchmark. No one told us not to do the benchmark.

Speaker 04660.1s - 4665.78s

I heard a benchmark. Really? Oh, yeah, because of the spoilers, potential inside. What spoilers are in the benchmark?

Speaker 34666.02s - 4673.34s

Well, if you think about the fish LMAO man and how he was hand in the thing to cryle, and that's, you know, that might be real, you know.

Speaker 04673.46s - 4677.56s

All right, all right. Begrudgingly, I'm being a dick, I'm sorry.

Speaker 34678.1s - 4691.36s

I begrudgingly give, like, maybe you could consider that a spoiler. Nothing in any of that would I consider a spoiler. No. Yeah. But, hey, we had a whole conversation today about different strokes right yes that's fair and i i will

Speaker 04691.36s - 4701.12s

openly admit i'm being a bit of a dick right now and i'm sorry everybody um but yeah i'm we have been so heavily spoiler police that it is it is a massive trigger for me and i'm going

Speaker 34701.12s - 4706.14s

to admit that that is a trigger for me. So yeah. Yeah. I apologize for my

Speaker 44706.14s - 4720.2s

spice today. Uh, Valias PERSON, as I know things have been busy to say the least, but do you have any updates about the Gigi PERSON meetup? I, I think I've zeroed in on a venue. The dude that draws up.

Speaker 34721s - 4727.74s

The quotes is on vacation until sometime this week, so I should hopefully be getting a quote to make sure that we can actually afford it.

Speaker 04728.08s - 4728.42s

Awesome.

Speaker 34729.64s - 4744s

I've got, I will say I've gotten quotes from like seven places and it is so much worse than I thought. So many places like require you to pay for food and drink and that was never on our. A lot of them think we're hosting a wedding too

Speaker 04744s - 4766.32s

and you have to be like, well, no, no. or they're that's what they want at the venue yes we're very mad because i'm i'm gonna say this here and we could do a future one here we'll just set the budget accordingly because now we know what it costs because originally we were just going to do the barcade and it might come down to that it might just come down to that because these orlando Orlando GPE venues are kind of being a pain in the butt.

Speaker 34769.82s - 4776.76s

Whatever the cases, we're still going to go to the barcade because we had a meet up in Vegas at a player one video game bar, which is a big arcade that's, you know, it's also a bar. There is a player one in Orlando GPE,

Speaker 24777.06s - 4785.96s

which I think is amazing and I wanted to admit there. So even if we have a venue, I'm, I've now triangulated all of the hotels around Player 1.

Speaker 34786.6s - 4802.7s

And I've gotten quotes from almost all of them, almost all of them require food, which pushes us way over budget, sadly, almost double what we were originally thinking. But the place that really bummed me out was Margaritaville Resort because I wanted to call it Muguritaville FAC.

Speaker 24802.94s - 4804.56s

Oh, yeah.

Speaker 34804.66s - 4805.5s

I'm very mad.

Speaker 44805.5s - 4814.72s

You love your alliteration. They were probably the most expensive. But God damn, I really wanted to call it guiding gears Mugoritaville and

Speaker 34814.72s - 4816.86s

probably get a cease and assist from Square ORG,

Speaker 04817.02s - 4819.56s

but it would be funny for like the five days that we called it that.

Speaker 34820.32s - 4821.8s

We could get the event over before that.

Speaker 04821.92s - 4829.74s

Yeah, yeah. Or maybe not because we're not going to be selling tickets for this. This is like invites are going to go out to like patrons and stuff. And yeah, yeah.

Speaker 34829.9s - 4834.78s

Anyway, either of you going to play Dragon's Dogma 2 PRODUCT, S. Ryjin.

Speaker 04834.96s - 4836.56s

I do not have the time right now.

Speaker 34837.24s - 4883.38s

I, yeah. It's in that same bucket as D&D. I hate to say it again. But it is so true. I have one year open anytime I'm gaming right now, and anything too immersive is just off the table.Because you're listening for that cry. You're listening for that. You're watching the monitor. You're watching. You're listening to two other little dudes hanging out in the other room. Like, my brain is just, I would want to be immersed.Candles would be lit. Lights would be low. It is that kind of game. A Moog is in Moogel, not Moog as in Mog PRODUCT. But Mogherita PRODUCT would also work. It's not the same thing?The Moogam PRODUCT? Well, there's Moog PERSON and there's Moog and both are terms.

Speaker 04883.6s - 4884.7s

I don't know the other one.

Speaker 34885.26s - 4887.18s

Do you not want to tell me what it means? Huh? Is it one of those? Like you said, Moog PERSON and there's Moog and both are terms. I don't know the other one. Do you not want to tell me what it means? Huh?

Speaker 04887.26s - 4887.88s

Is it one of those?

Speaker 34888.16s - 4891.2s

Like you said, Muggle Mogg PERSON. But yeah. Mogger Mug PERSON would work as...

Speaker 04891.2s - 4892.1s

Yeah, good king Mugelmog PERSON.

Speaker 44892.2s - 4892.64s

Isn't that the name?

Speaker 04892.64s - 4903.24s

But what I'm saying is Mugel Rudeville or Mugel Riedaville PERSON would both work as... Oh, they would both work. As cheeky Final Fantasy PRODUCT references I thought you were for a Grandinier ORG Meetup at a Margaritaville PERSON resort.

Speaker 34903.46s - 4907.92s

I thought this was like the first time, you know, someone said, that's daddy. And I was like, what does that mean?

Speaker 24907.92s - 4914.04s

And, you know, so I thought it was a new term the internet come up with over the weekend. No, I was just like, this is so extremely simple. Why are we even talking about?

Speaker 34914.04s - 4914.56s

Oh, okay.

Speaker 24914.76s - 4920.36s

Okay. I thought you were introducing me to a new term. No, no. This is like daddy or when you explained mommy to me.

Speaker 04920.36s - 4920.64s

Okay.

Speaker 14922.2s - 4922.44s

Yeah.

Speaker 04924.18s - 4929.36s

But, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, Robin wants to know, do you think your opinions on today's subject would have been different

Speaker 34929.36s - 4933.7s

if you were women? I think absolutely. Oh, absolutely. My opinion on the subject has changed

Speaker 04933.7s - 4941.48s

over time by having more women in my life. And yeah, I mean, that's what I was, that's

Speaker 34941.48s - 4956.12s

kind of what I was getting at by saying that my opinion of this has kind of changed over time by being steeped in more and more and larger online communities because I've just been exposed to people whose life's experiences do not match my own.

Speaker 04957.6s - 4964.16s

So in terms of sexuality, both women and the LGBT community as well. women and the LGBT community as well.

Speaker 34971.08s - 5015.5s

So I only had, I only, I didn't have a lot of close friends, um, from the LGBT community. I had some friends that were girls, but we, at least in the, I had a lot of friends who were girls, but in the 2000s, we never talked openly about that kind of shit. I feel like that stuff was still kind of taboo to have open conversations about. Whereas my experience has been entirely different growing up in the theater community, growing up doing community theater in Albuquerque, New Mexico GPE. And so when I got into the wider world and I met so many people who didn't have thoseexperience or have the breadth of friends and situations that I had had. It was weird to me. And I would say to that note, the weirdest one was always the stop the gay marriage while the economy was suffering. That one. Because of the wedding industry?

Speaker 25015.5s - 5017.3s

I was like, the weddings are expensive.

Speaker 05017.62s - 5019.08s

What the frick?

Speaker 25019.38s - 5020.42s

It sounds like a comedian.

Speaker 45020.72s - 5021.08s

Anybody.

Speaker 25021.64s - 5024.46s

I was dead seriously. It made no sense to me.

Speaker 35025.12s - 5026.08s

They want to get married. They want to to me. They want to get married.

Speaker 05026.24s - 5029.64s

They want to buy cakes. They want to buy things and have a party.

Speaker 35030.68s - 5038.12s

I'm going to pull that out the next time someone's being truly unreasonable. And hey, and love is love doesn't work on them. So a lot of the times would I find.

Speaker 05038.12s - 5039.92s

And be like, hey, Mr. Capitalist PERSON. Yeah.

Speaker 35040.46s - 5083.9s

So a lot of times I find that I overshoot a conversation. Someone would be like, well, you need to bring that about like, you're showing a lot of. And I'm like, no a conversation. Someone would be like, well, you need to bring that about like, you're, you're showing a lot of. And I'm like, no, no, no. See, I have this, I have this breadth of experiences that I'm pulling from to make this judgment. And that is also kind of what I was getting into with like, like, just be curious and be, like, I don't understand people who aren't curious about other people's experiences.Like, why do you want to shut it down so quickly? Like, no, I don't want to hear about that. Or no, I don't want to talk. Like, why? What are you afraid of? They might understand the plate of someone else? They might actually, like, care about another person.I get so mad about this kind of shit. And there's a lot of arm throwing. And, um, welcome to a preview of Thanksgiving. Wow.

Speaker 45084.74s - 5085.8s

It's actually hasn't happened in a while.

Speaker 35088.56s - 5109.62s

On a similar page with a good amount of my family that I was not on a similar page with at one point. Through conversations that I'm glad didn't end in cutting people out. But that may be a time when I was younger I may have cut them know, cut them out of my life and not continue talking to them. And I feel like I have actually affected some meaningful change

Speaker 05109.62s - 5114.16s

in some people in a way that I think is positive. Hard work. It's exhausting. Yeah.

Speaker 35115.2s - 5115.56s

It's,

Speaker 05115.6s - 5117.08s

it's not fun.

Speaker 35118.56s - 5119.16s

But yeah,

Speaker 05119.2s - 5119.54s

I don't know.

Speaker 35119.66s - 5119.92s

I just,

Speaker 25119.92s - 5123.34s

I hope they pay it forward if I'm ever in that position of being like,

Speaker 35123.58s - 5126.56s

you clearly just are just not, I don't know,

Speaker 25126.92s - 5132.84s

if I'm ever dogmatic or I'm ever uninformed or just coming too much from the place of my own experiences

Speaker 35132.84s - 5136.92s

and not being open to the experience of others.

Speaker 25137.8s - 5139.1s

I don't know, because I was like that once.

Speaker 35139.54s - 5140.46s

I've talked about that before.

Speaker 45141.04s - 5151.38s

The 90s and the early 2000s were not always the most welcoming place. And I wasn't always fighting against not being a welcoming place.

Speaker 35152.12s - 5162.84s

So, yeah, you grow, I grew up. I'm not going to tell you grow up, and I'm going to say,I feel like I grew up. And I think it's pretty great. And I would recommend it.

Speaker 05163.4s - 5170.94s

I would recommend it. All right. Let's moving back through. I would recommend it. All right. Let's moving back through. Are you making new glams and outfits for 6.x Dantro?

Speaker 35171.04s - 5175.44s

I love that this is the type of conversation we oscillate between.

Speaker 25175.44s - 5175.76s

Nice.

Speaker 05175.76s - 5181.12s

It's pretty deep worldviews and the real shit in Final Fantasy 14 PRODUCT.

Speaker 35183.76s - 5223.4s

I definitely, yes, 100% kind of feel like I'm retiring all my glams heading into Dawn Trail PRODUCT. I will probably bring back my end of NWalker 1 PRODUCT because I didn't get that chess piece until really late into NWalker PRODUCT and I love that set and I'll probably use it more. But what was I wearing on? I'm trying to think, what the hell was I wearing Formosa Ven Walker PRODUCT? I don't know the name of it, but I wore the same R for Mosso Van Walker PRODUCT and you will not seethat probably for at all in Don Trail PRODUCT unless we go back and do some men and walk around extremes, which we will and I'll probably bust it out for that. As you know, I like to, like when we do Storm Blood PRODUCT extremes, I put on what we, what I wore when we did Stormwood PRODUCT.

Speaker 45223.4s - 5223.44s

Right.

Speaker 35223.78s - 5254.36s

Yeah, I think I'd like to retire the sweater of light, but there will be a time should they ever bring up enough Ascians that I will whip that thing out and shove it through their eyes, much like that episode of Adventure Time WORK_OF_ART. Could show that. Yes. Yeah, I haven't watched that much Adventure Time WORK_OF_ART, but I think I know what you're referencing. Yeah. I think I understand what you're referencing.But all Kyle PERSON does is change its limbs, sometimes to his great detriment. I like exploring new things. Let's see.

Speaker 05256.68s - 5258.96s

Chris Starlight PERSON said,

Speaker 35258.96s - 5260.62s

given the predatory nature of gotcha games,

Speaker 05260.7s - 5262.54s

how do you feel about the way of gotcha game devs

Speaker 35262.54s - 5264.06s

using their revenue to develop standard games

Speaker 05264.06s - 5269.08s

like how Starlight ORG devs started with Niki,iki, I think is what it. I'm not

Speaker 35269.08s - 5273.12s

quite sure how to pronounce that. Oh, I'm not familiar. That's an interesting question. I don't have a

Speaker 05273.12s - 5277.12s

horse in this race. Uh, we have, we have, I know we have some folks in our, in our community who really

Speaker 45277.12s - 5286.5s

take umbrage with gotchas and I don't want to diminish your concerns with it, but, but at the same time, it's like, I don't know.

Speaker 05286.5s - 5288.18s

I don't like gambling.

Speaker 45288.18s - 5288.74s

And I have,

Speaker 05288.88s - 5292.12s

I have people in my family who derive a lot of joy for it,

Speaker 45292.24s - 5293.3s

joy from it.

Speaker 35293.38s - 5342.9s

And it hasn't consumed their life. And so I look at gotcha games much the same way I look at, I look at gambling. Because I just see it as another form of gambling with worse upsides or more useless upsides. So, yeah, I think I talked about this the last time Gotcha games came up. If you listen to the episode when Marco PERSON was on, the more recent one, we've had two Marco episodes.Because Marco obviously does voice acting in Genshin PRODUCT. That's true. And some other games as well. voice acting in um genchon that's true and some other games as well um uh but we we were talking about that because he informed me of this because i wasn't aware that like stellar blade was from a predominantly gotcha game developer but then they developed this game that does not have gotcha mechanics too much stellar play doesn't have gotcha i haven't seen this anywhere i'm sure if it had

Speaker 05342.9s - 5347.22s

gotcha mechanics it'd be much more of a hot time. It probably all over, yeah. Yeah. Safe bet. Yeah.

Speaker 35348.66s - 5364.58s

But, yeah, when Marco PERSON was on, I said I did one of my famous car analogies, Kyle PERSON, which is like, if you don't like gotcha games, but you like something like Stellar Blade PRODUCT, it's people like sports cars all over again. Like,don't get mad about many vans because they need to, that's what they sell a lot of.

Speaker 25364.94s - 5368.86s

They sell a lot of SUVs, which are boring and, and a dead driving experience

Speaker 35368.86s - 5412s

to, to, to, to kind of fund the enthusiast experience because not as many people by the enthusiast experience as by the, the crowd pleaser. I do think it's a little more insidious, personally with Gotcha games, because I don't think it's necessarily the crowd pleaser. I do think it's a little more insidious, personally with gotcha games, because I don't think it's necessarily the crowd pleaser. I think it's, it is going after,it's hoping that people spend more than maybe they should on those games, which is part of the reason I don't really like gotcha games. But again, that's what gambling is hoping. And I'm not above playing a go with poker here and there.And I don't begrudge my, my friends and family that enjoy gambling. hoping, and I'm not above playing to go with poker here and there, and I don't begrudge my friends and family that enjoy gambling. So, yeah, that's a tough stuff.

Speaker 25412s - 5413.84s

I see this is a really tough subject.

Speaker 35414.06s - 5487.48s

That is interesting. Yeah, because we can, there's situations like Diablo Mortal PRODUCT, where we're like, wow, nothing good would be done with this money. Like, there's not some loot box enough that'll get me that survival game. I was really interested. Yes.And this money will not go on to improve some other part of that department. Yeah. And I look at shit like that as someone who likes buying Star Wars PRODUCT helmets. And I'm like, I'm not going to spend, I'm going to drop $300 in a single game. I'd rather get another replica. But that just means I have my own problem, which is buying replica crap thatI love. It's not crap because I love it. Yeah, I just don't, I don't, it's simple to say I don't want it to be predatory, but I have my own experience with it where, you know, I had, as I revealed today on stream, you know, I had 16 years, no dates, and I was watching a lot of anime, and there was a time where that was kind of taking over my life, and it was making me feel crushingly lonely. And I think if you involved, if you came at me during that point of my lifeand you said you can pay to feel that much more involved with this woman, it would have gotten me, and it would have been very unhealthy.

Speaker 45488.6s - 5491.8s

And that's where I kind of get a little bit of concern.

Speaker 35492.58s - 5521.58s

And that's when my pearls start to come out a bit and I go, oh, oh, I really hope that people are treating these things healthfully and still finding the love companionship. And that doesn't have to be physical. It can be friendship online. It can be completely untouched.But you do require real relationships and a company can't provide that. Yeah.

Speaker 05521.7s - 5523.98s

But at the same time in terms of like you're you said,

Speaker 35524.14s - 5527.74s

that's where the clutch starts to come out is like, at least you're aware that that's a personal.

Speaker 05527.74s - 5543.72s

And I'm not going to, glad you're aware it's a personal trigger. Yeah. And I'm not going to jump through the internet and be like, you can't do this because I became over invested in so and so character. And that's why we're still friends. Yeah. Because you would rather talk about it meaningfully.Yes. Then jump down people's threats. Exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 35544.34s - 5551.12s

Yeah. And that's what I like. That's what I like about you. Not to say what we're doing is important. We just talked about like boobies and butts for a while.

Speaker 05551.12s - 5553.56s

Yeah. You know, we're not above being, you know,

Speaker 35553.68s - 5554.36s

DGEN's ourselves.

Speaker 05554.42s - 5558.64s

And then I found my health and now I enjoy DGEN as a hobby rather than a lifestyle rates.

Speaker 45562.36s - 5562.72s

Oh,

Speaker 35562.8s - 5567.62s

yeah. Yeah. Katie knows the camera's coming out when I see Natasha PERSON at a car meet. It's so rare.

Speaker 45567.76s - 5568.8s

I'm just like, hell yeah.

Speaker 35569.84s - 5591.84s

I don't even know who the character is half the time. Yeah? Just so happy to see. It's almost always a Nissan ORG Z. Almost always. You 350 Z PRODUCT owners, you guys are absolute DGens.And I thank you for your, for your service. Freaking Z boys, man. Z boys. DGN ORG has a hobby, excellent. Put that on a shirt. We got a new shirt.

Speaker 25592s - 5594.4s

Hobby DGEN. Love it.

Speaker 35595.32s - 5600.56s

We need to have, it needs to be a daddy and a mommy. You know, so anyone can buy that shirt.

Speaker 25601.86s - 5604.5s

Or, or like, you remember when South Park WORK_OF_ART did the I like,

Speaker 35604.5s - 5605.94s

Towley, I hate Towley T-T-T-Therts PRODUCT?

Speaker 25606.9s - 5607.64s

There you go, we just need it.

Speaker 35607.64s - 5610.48s

What happened with our thumbnails for the...

Speaker 05610.48s - 5614.18s

Well, now I'm trying to capitalize on my own morals, which is like, sexuality, good.

Speaker 25614.26s - 5615.58s

Just make sure it's equal opportunity.

Speaker 35615.88s - 5616.06s

Yeah.

Speaker 05616.14s - 5619.06s

And now I'm like, but also let's sell a shirt for both.

Speaker 35620.36s - 5620.94s

Oh, no.

Speaker 05621.02s - 5622.1s

Oh, no.

Speaker 45622.1s - 5622.64s

Oh, no.

Speaker 35622.86s - 5623.44s

Oh, God.

Speaker 05623.5s - 5626.4s

I've become a game developer. It's how it works. Oh, no. Oh, God. I've become a game developer. It's how it works.

Speaker 35626.62s - 5627.24s

Oh, Jesus.

Speaker 05628.46s - 5629.28s

Oh, God.

Speaker 35631.5s - 5633.52s

I'm glad that you're confessing, Pothy PERSON.

Speaker 05633.68s - 5634.16s

I'm glad.

Speaker 35634.98s - 5638.06s

I'm glad. And on that note,

Speaker 05638.12s - 5646.56s

I think that brings an end to the coordinated discussion. Perfect. That brings us to the end of this coordinated discussion.

Speaker 35646.72s - 5680.58s

Thank you so much for joining us for the hot topics of the day. Well, you know, I think it's worth saying that we invited you all here. And I know Garrett PERSON and I did the actual organs flapping to make the talking sounds. But you all were a huge part of this today. I really appreciate you all. Not only like in this today. I really appreciate y'all. Not only like in just like, hey, thanks for being mature.Like, thanks for being cool. Like, honestly, y'all are awesome. And it was cool having this talk with you today. There was a time and it was basically every day until now where I wouldn't not have been comfortable having that conversation. That's cool.

Speaker 05680.58s - 5695.56s

But I feel like we have a, I feel like we found our community well enough that I think we can have this without it devolving into anger, fighting, or judgment.

Speaker 45696.48s - 5697.94s

So, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 05698.28s - 5701.5s

We thought it would be funny, but we also knew it was going to get kind of serious.

Speaker 35701.62s - 5704.74s

Yeah. We're like, we don't know how this is going to go. And I feel good about how this went.

Speaker 05704.74s - 5711.18s

There's two conversations that have been building for a while to go. And I feel good about how this went. There's two conversations that have been building for a while too. And just so happened, Hell Divers was facilitate one of them. And yeah,

Speaker 35711.88s - 5716.08s

Stellar Blade PRODUCT facilitated the other. Let's be honest, Jesse Cox PERSON.

Speaker 25716.42s - 5718.28s

Jesse Cox PERSON facilitated the other.

Speaker 35718.36s - 5719.22s

Even when he's not on the show,

Speaker 25719.28s - 5720.3s

he facilitates conversations.

Speaker 35720.48s - 5749.48s

So again, because apparently this video is being suppressed by YouTube ORG. A big shout out to Jesse Cox. Go to his channel, Jesse Cox on YouTube and find the rise of adult video games on Steam ORG. It's a legitimately great 15-minute documentary. Really informative doesn't deserve to be flagged. There's nothing in it that's horribly inappropriate. Obviously, there's, I would say, PG-13 sexual content. But it's presented in a documentary manner. There's nothing in it that's horribly inappropriate. Obviously there's, I would say, PG-13 sexual content.But it's presented in a documentary manner.

Speaker 05749.48s - 5752.14s

That's why I find it so outrageous that...

Speaker 35752.14s - 5758.46s

Yeah. It's like, I remember watching the history of the VHS and that had a ton to say about the porn industry.

Speaker 05758.58s - 5759.28s

Yeah, that is.

Speaker 25759.28s - 5761.62s

And it was just like on cable.

Speaker 35762.72s - 5769s

But Blu-ray one, not HD video or whatever. I'm not, did I have anything to do with the porn industry?

Speaker 05769.08s - 5777.56s

Yeah, the porn industry picked the other one. They didn't pick... HD-dbd? Yeah. You had to buy an extra dongle for your Xbox 360 PRODUCT to have the HD DVD drive?

Speaker 35778.48s - 5780.64s

Yes, because they went with that. Yes.

Speaker 05781.76s - 5784.3s

PS3 went with Blu-ray PRODUCT, but it was built in.

Speaker 35784.42s - 5792.04s

But either way, I guess the porn industry didn't decide that one. But they definitely decided the VHS one. Yeah, yes. PS3 were with Blu-ray PRODUCT, but it was built in. But either way, I guess the porn industry didn't decide that one, but they definitely decided the VHS one. Yeah,yeah. I'll be laughing at Dongle ORG now. I'm glad it came all the way back around.

Speaker 05792.12s - 5796.22s

I'm glad we can still laugh about this stuff. The important things. Yeah. Dongle ORG. But,yeah,

Speaker 35796.28s - 5816.96s

thanks so much for hanging out, everybody. What I really meant to say about that was like, hey, thanks for being new.Thanks for, thank you for being a part of this community where we can, we can have a laugh and also have a serious discussion. Uh, and, uh, and you can all be, uh, as Bill and Ted PERSON would put it excellent to each other. So, yeah, uh, we'll be back tomorrow

Speaker 05816.96s - 5824s

for Final Fantasy 14 stream. Yeah. Yes, our first proper stream of many things in a very

Speaker 25824s - 5825.4s

long time. Very long time.

Speaker 05825.4s - 5834.94s

We need to get flying and we'll see where that adventure leads us. Lots of blue quests too. So there will be stories. There shall be encounters. Yep. And we're going to try and fire it up an hour earlier tomorrow.Yes.

Speaker 45835.04s - 5835.96s

So noon.

Speaker 05836.08s - 5838.54s

Expect it at noon, eastern tomorrow, 9 a.m. Pacific.

Speaker 45839.24s - 5841.5s

So if you're just starting your work day over on the West Coast LOC,

Speaker 35842.46s - 5850.34s

grinding gear will be there to greet you and we will already be caffeinated. And before we go, of course, we want to shout out our badass patrons.

Speaker 15850.46s - 5859.48s

Thank you so much for supporting us. If you want to support Kyle PERSON and me, check out support our bromance.com. That will take you straight to our Patreon ORG and to our most recent patrons.

Speaker 05859.64s - 5900.3s

Huge thanks to Animochi, pins and needles, Robovin, Leaf Roar, M, Mav, Dog Cowst Systems ORG, that sounds familiar, Kobe Teal, Aeron, Lord, and Mason ORG. Thank you for signing up, everybody. And of course, there's our legendary level backers, huge thanks and shoutouts to Sean B, Mike R PERSON, Das, Chee, Cheezy Bob, Chris Kay, Lost Mythics, Wayra E. Servon. Compside Jedi. Darkman. Pothy Pothie P. Bloodsie Van Zincorne. Zincorpe. C. Cawrill. G.O., Nicklissie. C. C. CERN. Jinnett. Jannet. HAN.

Speaker 35901.04s - 5908.02s

As always, Kyle and I use Doghouse Systems Gaming PCs. Check out doghouse ORG systems.com. Use the code bromance and you will get upgraded to a free 2 terabyte

Speaker 05908.02s - 5917.36s

NV-M-E-S-S-D. That's going to wrap it up. For this edition of the Grand DeGear ORG podcast, follow us on Twitter at Garrett Art, at Kyle PERSON Ferguson, at Garrett and Kyle.

Speaker 25918s - 5919.5s

Until next time, Gigi PERSON.

Speaker 05920.26s - s

Take care. You know, and the world. I'm going to be able to be.