Recapping the Browns draft: Favorite and most intriguing picks from last weekend

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Hello, everybody, welcome to another edition of the Orange to Brown Talk ORG podcast. Dan Lobby with Tim Beelick and Lance Reisland PERSON. We are going to recap the NFL ORG draft. You know, Mary Kay and Ashley and I went through pick by pick to give our thoughts on the picks a couple days ago on this pod. But now we're going to bring in the guys who are with us all of April and a few dogs in the back around as well, some trucks, some cars.I'm sitting outside, to be honest, it's such a nice day out here when we're recording this. We're going to have the guys that were with us all through April leading into the draft, giving us the names to watch. They're going to go through the picks that the Browns ORG made. So we welcome back, Tim Beulich, Lance Reisland PERSON, guys. It's good to see that you both survived draft weekend.Lance PERSON, I do need to know just before we start. Let's just get it out of the way. Peyton Wilson, Pittsburgh Steeler ORG.

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I mean, there's so many, I mean, to Steelers ORG, man, I tell you what, he's a perfect fit. Him and Frasier are absolutely perfect fits. And now I've got to watch, now I've got to give reports, man, I tell you what, he's a perfect fit. Him and Frazier PERSON are absolutely perfect fits. And now I got to watch, now I got to give reports every year on this guy. And I'm telling you, I'm telling you he's going to be a destroyer. But I was, I literally, it was like eight picks away.I'm like, Steelers ORG, please don't pick him. Please don't pick him. Please don't pick him. And of course, they rung him up. I was like, well, got my little text. I got one from you. I knew it was coming quickly. So, yeah, disappointing. But Steelers ORG killed it in a draft, in my opinion. He was part of it.

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Tim PERSON, did you have like a favorite? I'm going to, we're going to do favorite pick,

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a most intriguing pick for the Browns. But just overall, did you have a favorite pick in this draft? I guess for where he was picked, I would say Jamari Thrash PERSON. And like,

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he's probably not going to be the best player in this draft. But I think he's kind of the favorite as far as

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value goes. I mean, the only guy I would have taken maybe over him, maybe he's Malik Washington PERSON out of

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Virginia. But the more I dug into Thrash, the more I found interesting. fans that wanted him more about him steve smith senior PERSON did a whole big podcast

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just about jimari thrash PERSON he is a big big jimari thrash fan and even just listen to him a little

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bit you know prior to coming out of this podcast he was talking so much about how he felt georgia state

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used him better in 2022 than what louis did in 2023, particularly with specific routes or whatever. Like maybe Louisville only used him with four or five different routes, whereas Georgia State allowed him to be more diverse with his route running ability. So maybe that kind of hurt him.

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So, Lance PERSON, let's get into this. Let's talk a little Jamari Thrash PERSON then. You know, you mentioned and Tim mentioned just now that his best year was at that Georgia State year before he ended up at Louisville ORG. Now, last year he broke his hand, missed a game, played most of the second half of the season with a broken hand. He talked about it a little bit when we had a conference call with him after the pick. You know, he said he was kind of catching one-handed.I saw a tweet. I don't have it handy, but you could kind of see the production dip after the broken hand, a verse before the broken hand. What did you see from

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thrash on film? Well, Tim PERSON just said it. So the guy who broke him down is exactly what I saw. So

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at Georgia State ORG, he runs a full route tree. And he is actually, you know, he kind of fits in that

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slot mode, but I think he can play inside now. But he runs, what I like to say is outside one routes, right? So he's running comebacks, digs, verticals, skinny pose, but he runs, what I like to say is outside one routes, right? So he's running comebacks, digs, verticals, skinny pose, bang eights, all those things you see Cooper and those guys run. He also runs some slot stuff. He was a lot more involved with the slot stuff at Louisville, the overs, the 806, the mesh, a little bit more air raid type stuff, but not as detailed in routes as he was at Georgia State ORG. His receiver coach at Georgia State really coached him up well. I think without question his number one quality is his abilityto accelerate and decelerate. He can change pace, which is so important in terms of releases and getting into your route. He does get rerouted a little bit because of his, he'll have to work on that because of his size. But his ability to change pace when I watched tons of snaps for 22 and 23. That's why I had success in the ACC ORG is this ability to change pace, in my opinion. Really good route runner, really savvy. Has a lot of young Amari Cooper PERSON in terms of fighting the back shoulder and angles and releases.So really crafty guy and a guy I think will be in the mix for sure. A lot of talent.

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Tim, what is, I guess when you look at Jamari Thrash PERSON and you project him into the next

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level, how do you see him, you know, initially and then even long term? I think initially he could

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be a guy who can get you some yards after the catch. You know, Lance PERSON's profile talking about him and remind me in some ways of what I've said before about Ladd-McConkey PERSON, maybe just on a lesser level because, you know, Thrash kind of had that limited route profile, even looking at the date on PFF ORG. You know, he had 63 catches last season, 23 of them, according to PFF, were hitch routes. And, you know, his coach of Purdue is Jeff Brom PERSON, a guy I really love because I think he's one of the most creative offensive minds of college football. But I think it kind of limited him as far as what he could do.But what I see out of him is I see a guy who is more football fast than testing fast. You know, you tested fine at the combine. You know, 4, 4, 640 is still very good. But I think, you know, game-wise, he was even faster. I think someone said maybe the senior bowl, he was just shy of 21 miles an hour. Pro football focus that has their game athletic score just came out.I was just watching a little bit of that. They said he was in, I think in 2022, about the 94.1st percentile out of 100. So he's more football fast than anything. And with his ability to play more out wide than the slot, I think it's about 85, 15 slot at minimum for Jammari Thrash PERSON. He's certainly a guy you could put on the outside because of his ability to change speeds, his fluidity. You can put him all over the place and have him trying different things.That said, you know, with the depth of Browns ORG have a receiver, they can afford to be a little patient, you know, shore up his, you know, catching issues and things like that.

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But I think ultimately you have a guy who I think his ceiling may be a number three receiver,

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ideally. But if you're getting for a late fifth round pick, if you're telling me you're getting a starting slot receiver, that's pretty good.

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Lance PERSON, let's talk about those drops before we get to anything else on him. What did you see? Is this a problem? Is this something that was just, is this fixable? Is it something Browns ORG fans should be concerned about? Did it stand out to you when you, when you watched him?

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I did, you know, it did. But what I see is that he's not great at contested catches, his body frame, his hands, his length. He doesn't play real long, in my opinion. But so those 50-50 balls, he loses. So some of them were drops. Some of them are where you got to go out and get it and they're both kind of competing for it. He's not real, he doesn't seem real good at those contested catches as of yet,but those are things he can work on. But he does a great job of separation, and he does a great job, like I said, change in pace. So I don't think the drops are, I thought those,the drops were a little bit overrated because he's a hands catcher. And guys who, for me, guys who let their bodies kind of catch it all the time are the guys who struggle in terms of consistency. He gets his hands out there. So it's just a matter of reps. Reping it and repin it, wrap it, very in the joke who like, right, he'll get it.

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And up though, just take a quick look at PFF, eight of his 17 drops in college were last season in Louisville. So I feel like the broken hand might have seven do with it. Also, it doesn't have the largest hands. So naturally, when you don't have a guy who is big hands, naturally you're going to have some of those issues, I think.

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So I want to ask you guys another question. We've talked about his role. Sometimes Kevin Stefansky will just get this wistful far off look in his eye when he starts talking about Percy Harvin or Corderell Patterson PERSON. And I feel like he's been wanting to find that guy for this football team. Maybe that's not all he does, but just someone who can, you know, you can line him up in theback field.

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You can get, Lance PERSON, you always talk about the yards after catch guys, right? I think that's those are the guys Kevin PERSON wants. And he tried to do that with Elijah Moore last year. It didn't really work out. It's sort of, he seemed sort of ill-suited for it when they kind of tried to execute it.

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So for both of you, is this something Jamari could offer to this team, especially early in his career? Could he be sort of a Swiss Army knife sort of receiver for this team?

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I don't think so. I think he's just more of a pure receiver to me, especially, you know, like I said before, he's played the vast majority of his snaps out wide on the perimeter. And I think if you're looking for that Swiss Armory Knife PRODUCT guy, ideally, I think you would want someone around 200 pounds and thrashes around 190. Not saying he couldn't do it. I think, like I said, I think he's faster than he tested. But I feel like that it would be, you know, getting him jet sweeps or whatever wouldn't be the best use of his skills or giving him a handoff.That said, you know, bubble screens, it would make a lot of sense. I think he would make a killing early on his career in drag routes, especially if you were able to ISO, somehow ice him up against a linebacker because, as Lance PERSON said, his ability to upshift and downshift and change direction, like he's very fluid. So there's a lot there to work with. So certainly it could be a gadget guy, you know, as far as upfield route running isconcerned, maybe not I would not probably go jet sweep at least right now until I see, you know, on an NFL ORG field that he's kind of running away from guys and around guys.

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Yeah, I think the guy that they have with that is Heinz, if they're going to do any of that because of the size. You know, the one thing you see down there, you know, I look at like Joachim Grant PERSON, there's not a lot of, before his injuries, both years, which I, you know, I was there, unfortunately, for both. But when he was healthy, what I learned at the NFL ORG level being down on the sidelinesor in practice is that regardless of how shaky you are and shifty you are and sudden and twitchy, if you're sudden and twitchy had under 200 pounds, and the NFL ORG, it's tough. These guys are so big and fast and strong. So I do. I think he's a number one guy outside in terms of, I don't mean number one, a receiver. In terms of, I'm thinking outside one.But I think he can play inside two and three in the slot. I think he can do a lot of different things. But no, I don't. I think if they're going to have a jet sweep guy, I think if they're going to do that, I thought they would have went after Corley PERSON. When they didn't get after Corley PERSON,I figured that they have high expectations for Jerry Judy PERSON, right? And if they're going to do the jet sweeps, they're going to get an empty. Hind PERSON has a pretty good skill set to be able to do those things. I do not think thrashes that guy in terms of with body, just simply by body size. Okay, Lance, who is your favorite pick? I think Watson was a great pick. You know, obviously I like the first two picks. I always love, you've heard me say it forever, Dan PERSON. I love offensive defensive linemen. I'm never, ever mad at offensive defensive linemen being picked because that's where the games are won. And it's funny because regardless of its highschool college or pro, games are one up front. But Watson PERSON, I really liked that linebacker. Now, I know I haven't told you guys this, but I did not maybe do my due diligence with Mr. Watson PERSON because I had a linebacker favorite that I really just kind of put out in front and didn't break down Watson PERSON as much as I should. I did watch probably a couple, maybe two and a half games, but watching him on film, I think he's a perfect scheme fit. He's better downhill than he is side to side. He doesn't cover well in man right now, but he can. But hegets downhill talking about a guy with 10 sacks, 13 tackles for a loss, led at C.C. ORG and tackles with 137 plays with his hair on fire. He's not real shifty. He's not a super athlete side to side, sudden kind of guy, but he is a guy who plays with a pretty intense motor and a guy who can really help you with those A&B gap mud pressures that Schwartz likes to run. He could be a situational guy. He kind of fits that talky, talky role.Again, he'll be a guy who's good on special teams, especially kickoff early. I thought in terms of what he can bring to a team early on. I thought he was a pretty good pick. I didn't really realize how football fast and accelerate and his pursuit. I didn't realize how good that was until I broke him down really, really well at a couple of days after their draft. Really good football player has a chance to be really special on special teams and a guy who can kind of go, same talkie talkie role, right? Be start, be really good on special teams and then work his way in, uh, into the rotation as, and as we're learning with allthese guys, you've got to be deep at these positions. These positions that are collision, not contact, but these are collision positions. So they got to be, they got to have some depth.

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I think he adds that. So Tim, Lance PERSON sent some clist notes. He sent them to me and Mary Kay and Ashley PERSON, and I was reading through Nathaniel Watson the other day. And the first three bullet points, plays with his hair on fire, like Lance PERSON just said, plays angry and with an edge,plays best coming downhill in A and B gap, relentless. And just as I read that, I think to myself, yeah, Jim Schwartz PERSON linebacker right here.

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Yeah, I mean, that's what we talk about. That's what I talked about before, you know, with some of the guys that I think the Browns have on defense, particularly Jeremiah Wusukormo and Grant Delpit PERSON, guys who are at their best playing downhill. And that's certainly when Nathaniel Watson PERSON is obviously, I think his stock was hurt by the fact that maybe that he doesn't have a coverage dimension.But I think, you know, when you get to a certain point in the draft, you're looking for something that guys can do at a high level. And I think with Watson PERSON, it's that ability to play downhill and his ability to tackle cleanly, even looking at his numbers, again, according to PFF, a missed tackle rate of just 5.4%. Now, that's in the SEC West LOC. I mean, you could argue that's the best division in college football.And not a lot of guys are getting away from Nathaniel Watson PERSON when he gets a whole of you. So I think he's a, he's an ideal linebacker that you hope you can have in run support situations, especially in this division when you got to worry about Lamar Jackson and Derek Henry PERSON, you know, when you got to worry about the Steelers with Jalen Warren, the Bengals ORG, you know, they've got obviously, you got to be able to tackle in space and pressure Joe Burrow PERSON. So I think with Nathaniel Watson PERSON, there's plenty of good tools to work with it.I even tweeted it right after the pick was made. I said, this feels like an ideal special team or like he's a guy who's got a chance to be a big impact special teamer pretty quickly because of his ability to play downhill. And because, like I said, once he gets, once he wraps you up, you're probably, you're most likely going down more so than most other linebackers.

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Lance PERSON, you've studied this kickoff, the kickoff rule so much.

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And, you know, I'd asked you about this a little bit before the draft,

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before we had some names to attach to this team. And with Nathaniel Watson PERSON, I think there's so much to get into because of his age and his experience. But this is a guy that even though he's a sixth round pick, I think he's going to have to contribute right away. And I think special teams is really important. That new kickoff rule is really important. And Andrew Barry PERSON has said, look, we're all still trying to figure this out, but I think the key is going to be to have bigger bodies. And Nathaniel Watson PERSON seems like a guy that you're going to be able to plug in on that kickoff coverage teamand be able, as they work to figure this out, be one of those guys you're going to count on.

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Well, what we're going to see with this kickoff, first of all, is you're going to see a bunch of people try some different things. And I'm talking from linemen to linebackers. You're going to see a bunch of different people try different things with this because the lack of movement before the ball is caught turns it into a run play, turns it into an offensive play. It's no longer a collision play. And when it's not a collision play, you've got to have guys that can get off. And those linebackers are the one who it needs to shedthose 300-pound linemen. So you're talking about the Martin Emerson PERSON's of the world. You're talking about these guys who are long. I wouldn't be shocked if you see JOK on there. You're going to see Emerson. You're going to see some more starters in coverage because this is a tremendous advantage for the kickoff return team. A tremendous advantage, like more than anything I've seen in a long timein special teams in terms of advantages. So I just think, you know, a guy like Watson PERSON, a guy, these guys who can play in space, right? Those guys who are, I like to say, keep their cars clean in traffic, right? So there's a lot of traffic, but he can stay off it. Those are guys going to be important because they're going to be, there's going to be traffic.There's going to be a lot of guys, bodies that you've got to work your way through to make tackles. It's going to be very interesting, but you're going to need, like you said, bigger guys who can get, who are good with their hands, strong hands could shed blockers. And those are your linebacker, big DB, you know, outside backer type.

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So you're going to see a lot of those guys. Tim, he breaks a lot of the Andrew Barry PERSON mold. Like I said, played six years at Mississippi State with the COVID ORG. He was, he actually arrived before Martin Emerson and got drafted two years after Martin Emerson from Mississippi State ORG, 24 years old on September 1st. So again, I think this is a guy that you should have an expectation for, you know, he's not like a redshirt guy.You're going to play this guy. Do you see him contributing right away, even on defense? You know, Cione Taki Taki PERSON is a guy that we've mentioned. Could he be that guy pretty quickly in this defense?

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Maybe. I think with linebacker in general, we've seen the positional value of that kind of plummet over the years, you know, with especially defensive tackles now that they're getting paid. Now you kind of see that position kind of rising up in the hierarchy of positions that you're looking for help with. But I think with the Browns ORG, you know, maybe I would, like I said, I would definitely imagine he's going to be a key special teamer from day one. I imagine, you know, he'll probably spend a lot of time Bubba Ventron's PERSON room, you know, working on trying to get off some blocks on the kickoff game.And as we know in the NFL ORG or at any level, when you're a young player, when you compete in special teams and when you excel at that, that's what gets you on the field. And then looking at the depth chart, obviously, you know, they got JOK. They signed Jordan Hicks and Devin Bush in the offseason. So maybe there's an opportunity for him to work in at times, you know, maybe on third down if you want to bring him in as an extra rusher or maybe on first down if you're expecting run when you want to go a littleheavier because he has a little more size. So I think you can certainly use him situationally. But, you know, again, with the veterans that are in front of him, I would expect most of the time you're going to see him especially early in the season, his special teams. And if he does well there, maybe you see him more and more maybe in a base, three or in a run stuffing situation as the season goes on.

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Okay, quick break here. And then we're going to come back. We're going through some of our most intriguing picks from the Browns ORG draft. Welcome back to the Orange and Brown talk podcast. Dan Lobby, Lance Reisland, Tim Beulik, recapping what the Browns did in the NFL draft last weekend. Okay, so we just did favorite picks. Tim, who is your most intriguing pick what the Browns did in the NFL draft last weekend. Okay, so we just did favorite picks.Tim, who is your most intriguing pick that the Browns ORG made?

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I'd say Zach Zinter PERSON, you know, I just thought that was such a fascinating pick, and this is kind of behind the curtain. I'm down here in my basement slash office watching the draft over here. I will admit I'm old school as far as watching the draft, and I like to avoid spoilers as best as possible. Jalen Mcmillan was sitting right there, and I was texting with Lance in the morning thinkingJalen Macmillan felt like a diet Jackson Smith and Jigba ORG. I thought it would have been perfect. But then they go Zach PERSON's intern. At first I was, you know, it's a little early for him. But then, you know, you think about a little more. And the one thing I had been talking about through the offseason was if there was a positionon the offensive line that the Brown ORG should address, it's not tackle, it's guard. Because with Joel Betone, getting up there in age, with White Teller PERSON getting up there in age, you need an insurance policy. And I think Zach Zinser with his experience and just his physicality coming from that Michigan offensive line, it's a pretty interesting fit because I think he's a guy who comes to Cleveland GPE. You're not going to ask him the store right away as he continues to heal the broken leg. Maybe he has to start a game or two because of injuries this season. Maybe he has to play, you know, if Wyatt Teller or Joel Betone PERSON would get hurt.But I think since there's a guy who could play pretty quickly. And, you know, you continue to work with him behind the scenes, help him get a little stronger, maybe get into the 310s PRODUCT. And then in 2025 or 2026, you have to work with him behind the scenes, help him get a little stronger, maybe get into the 310s. And then in 2025 or 2026, you have to move on for one of those guys. You have Zach Zinsert PERSON waiting in behind to make that transition and get younger on that offensive line. So in a lot of ways, it made sense.And even thinking about it further, you wonder where he would get drafted if he was able to play the rest of that season and was able to play against Alabama, play against Washington ORG, play in the senior bowl, do the combine, do all those things. You wonder where he would have been drafted because with a guy of his profile, the fact that he has had that significant injury, you know, against Ohio State ORG, kind of wiping out his draft cycle, not allowing him to play in the national championship game. I think obviously it kind of hurt him a little on drafting. That kind of muddied his status more than anything. But I think he's a very interesting lineman.

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So the more I've thought about this pick, it just there's so many things that make sense to me about it. And Tim PERSON, it starts with your thought that this was maybe a little too early for him. And so that makes me think, okay, the Browns didn't have a fourth round pick. So they clearly seem to prioritize. We need to just get this guy now.You know, maybe there wasn't anybody else a receiver or an edge rusher or somebody like that that they liked better. So they said, we need to get this guy now. And then I started to think even farther because I always have too much time to think about this stuff.

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I kind of thought back to Nick Harris PERSON.

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When the Browns drafted Nick Harris in the fifth round, now that's a much lower, you know, that's a much lower spot, much lower value spot. But they draft Nick Harris in the fifth round. You know J.C. Tredder PERSON's getting near the end. You're going to have to replace him at some point. So Nick Harris comes in and sits for two years.And he was going to take over at center and then he got hurt. And so Ethan Post took his job. Nick Harris PERSON is gone now. But Nick came in because J.C. Treader never practiced. He got a bunch of first team reps. He basically was the starter during the week until J.C. Tredder played on Sundays. This could be something similar for Zach Zinter PERSON. And this is a higher value pick, too. So, like, he could be getting first team reps this year all week.When Joel Betonio's not practicing on Wednesdays or sitting out a couple days here and there in training camp, I see the succession plan, and it reminds me a little bit of Nick Harris PERSON. It even reminds me a little bit of DeWan Jones, and obviously his timeline got sped up last year. But I see the template here. And I see the reasoning behind this pick.

Speaker 01329.78s - 1391.62s

Yeah. And I think that's what typically good teams tend to do, you know, with these mid to late picks is, you know, take a chance on the offensive linemen and, you know, work them in and give them a little time to develop. It's, you know, like you said, it's a succession plan. You want to make sure you're, you always have young reinforcements kind of ready to go. That's why Duon Jones was picked last year,even though he jumped in as a starter way earlier than I think anybody expected and played better than most people thought he was going to. So Zinter PERSON, from that perspective, definitely makes a lot of sense. And obviously we saw Joel Betone get banged up last year. He missed some time. But now you have a young guy in Zach Zenter who's got a lot of experience playing in apro-style offensive line, playing for a physical minded head coach in Jim Harbaugh PERSON, understanding that kind of NFL ORG mentality in the offensive line. He could fit right in. I mean, he could certainly be a starter much earlier, maybe with some other teams. But for the Browns, you know, if he's your third guard and you need him in emergency situations, that's not a bad break glass in case of an emergency type of player.

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All right, so Lance, tell me what you see about Zinter PERSON on film. Do you think we're looking at a potential starting guard, a 10-year starting guard in the NFL ORG?

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Yeah, I love the pick. So I didn't, it was funny, me and Tim PERSON, we're going back and forth. And he's, you know, he always, he's, you know, he knows his draft stuff. So I was just trying to throw a wrench in there because I just, I'm just the film guy. So I absolutely love Zintra PERSON on film.So you're talking about a guy who's the best player on the back-to-back, you know, Joe Moore PERSON award-winning staff. So here's what I like about him on film is that first of all, he comes from a pro offense, meaning he comes from a huddle, which is important. People don't understand how important that is. But he also comes where he's run zone. He's also come where he's run counter power,pin and pool. Pass protection-wise, they run empty. So he's got to be a dual read on the middle linebacker. So he's doing all these NFL ORG things. I think his best traits right now is his ability to pull on power. He gets to the second level on zone. He's incredibly physical. He's incredibly smart. He's an academic All-American.He was a finalist for the Heisman WORK_OF_ART, whatever that academic Heisman is. He was a finals for that. He's a really smart guy. I think he fits the mold. You know, one thing he doesn't do really, really well is he's not super in path protection. Well, guards aren't usually. Guards are not tackles for a reason. You can help a guard a lot more than you can helpa tackle by slide that center over to him. So I think they can help with that, but he, you know, he does a great job. He's got super strong hands. And the one thing that no one talks about that I love about Zach's enter is he went against Graham, Grant, and Jenkins last year every single day. And there's something and Jenkins last year every single day. And there's something to be said about every single day. You're going against guys who are NFL ORG caliber guys, even at the college level.And I think Graham's going to be, I think he's the best defensive player in the top three in the country next year. So I just think he's going to be ready to go. Tim PERSON said it best he comes from a hardball offense. You know, you talk about a two-play call system. Most colleges now are getting a one-play call system, a one-words, and they're going. NFL ORG, you're getting these wordy kill-kills where you've got multiple plays calls.They'll be ready for all that. So I think he, yes, I think he's a starter for multiple years. Super tough guy fits the Browns ORG mold for sure.

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And Tim, the other part of this too is, and we're going to get obviously to one of the reasons this was a topic this weekend. But, you know, Andrew Berry, Catherine Raich PERSON, some other people we talked to over the weekend all talked about the value of creating pressure up the middle. And, right, again, we're going to get to a couple of those guys. But if that's where the game is going, if that's where the money's going,if that's where the high picks are starting to go, then you also have to be able to counter that. It's the same as, hey, this is a passing league now, so you better have a bunch of corners. So investing in centers and guards and interior protection is huge. And I don't know, I'll take a guy that played in, I'll take a guy that played for Jim Harbaugh PERSON for a few years and bring him in and put him in my system. I'm perfectly okay with that.

Speaker 01571.98s - 1666.42s

Yeah, not just playing for Jim Harba PERSON. He's kind of the heart and soul of that offensive line, if not the entire team. I mean, you always ever, I think anybody that watched an Ohio State Michigan game from last November is always going to remember the crowd chanting Zach Zinser's PERSON name as he was carded off the field. And that tells you just how much he meant to that team, how much he meant to that offensive line, kind of being the heart and soul of that offensive line.And in some ways, what you're kind of talking about is another one of the things with Andrew Barry PERSON is that seems like he tries to be out ahead of some of these trends. You mentioned obviously with corner right now they have the three starting corners in Denzel Ward, Martin Emerson, Jr., and Greg News of the second. So obviously, they're out ahead of that. And you saw the money that, you know, Christian Wilkins guy, Christian Barmore guy, you know, all of these defensive tackles are starting getting paid. You know, Chris Jones got a nice payday after, you know, sitting out the first game for the Chiefs last season. So in a way, it's smart where you kind of are, Andrew Bray PERSON's kind of understanding, okay, these guys are getting better. We need, but if I'm Andrew Brer PERSON, I'm thinking, how do we get better up the middle? How do we get younger up the middle? Because like I said, you know, Betonio's in his early 30s.Teller's going to get to 30. You want to have that contingency plan where you have at least one guy, you know, is under 25, waiting in the wings, there's one play away. And I think Sinter certainly fits a lot of those Tracy PERSON you're looking for. And even looking at some of his PFF numbers, his pass block efficiency grade this year, 99.1 out of 100. So that tells you he might be a better pass blocker than most people give him credit for it. You didn't even give up a sack this season. Okay, Lance PERSON, your most intriguing pick.

Speaker 21666.98s - 1669.48s

Well, mine's Miles Harden PERSON, and not because he's not a good player.

Speaker 11669.56s - 1762.28s

My intriguing thing about him is that as I watched a ton of a lot more South Dakota GPE film that I ever thought I'd watched in the last four days, but it's, first of all, he's very well coached to South Dakota GPE, very well coached. I think he's a guy who can play multiple positions. But the thing that's interested in me is that he's much better in zone right now than he is in man. And that tells me that they have a plan for him, maybe at a safety position. I don't know. I don't know his skillset. I look forward to seeing him. You know, he played at a lower level, which means, and I tell everybody, it's not that it's the daily reps. It's the daily seeing high level guys day in and day out. Not that you can't compete. There's been a lot of guys from all levels who have been awesome, but usually there's a learning curve because it just takes a little bit of time. But my thought is, first of all, he's a really good football player. And what intrigues me is that Andrew Barry PERSON and his staff,they've been pretty good at DBs, right, in terms of what they want and how they want it. So they see something in him, which again, for me goes back to, I appreciate that they have a plan and I tell everybody it's not if you like the plan it's if they do they have one and I feel like the Browns ORG over the last three or four years they have a plan and they stick to it and they're unfazed by what everybody thinks and I like that because as a football guy you you go with what you know like everybody'stalking about the offense I guarantee you if Cefansky PERSON's going to run a lot of what he runs why because that's what he knows and these guys guys who are drafting, coaching, they, you know, it's a pretty well-run organization right now. And it's interesting to me just because I don't, he's not a great man coverage guy. Browns play a ton of man. But they see something in. So what the intriguing part to me is that what do they see that I'm not seeing on film?

Speaker 21762.86s - 1814.28s

You know, I'll add to that too, Tim. We've seen Andrew Barry PERSON so far in his short tenure has been pretty good when it comes to drafting corners, whether we're talking about Greg Newsom, who, you know, look, say what you want about Greg Newsom. He's a good player. Like you can have Greg Newsom on the field in multiple roles, and you're going to be fine. Martin Emerson PERSON, of course, could be a future star on the outside, could be up for a big payday after next season. You know, so now you bring in a guylike Miles Harden. It's a seventh round pick. We'll see what it turns into. But this is, this sort of feels like, you know, every GM has positions they're good at drafting and positions they aren't as good at drafting. And right now, Andrew Barry has been on a little bit of a heater when it comes to drafting court. I even think Cam Mitchell PERSON is going to be a nice player. So this is sort of a trust Andrew Barry on this. What did you see from Miles Harden PERSON?

Speaker 01814.58s - 1905.98s

Well, I'm glad you mentioned Cam Mitchell because, I mean, you think about that Chicago ORG game. Do they win that game if Cam Mitchell does not make that shoestring tackle on Justin Fields PERSON on that fourth down? That tackle really started the momentum in that game. But with Miles Hardin PERSON, what stands out to me is his frame as much as anything. He's almost 200 pounds already. So the fact at the corner position where you don't normally see bigger guys,even looking at the roster that the Browns ORG have right now, they don't have a lot of 200-pound corners. Basically, it's Martin Emerson and Justin Hardy were the only 200-pound corners. And when you see one of that size is is he can be effective in run support. So immediately, I guess the mind goes to maybe a Mike Hilton PERSON comparison for him. And Mike Hilton has become one of the best slot corners in terms of being physical, run support, tackling type of guys. And some of that's what you see with Miles Hart and even looking at his PFF numbers. His mistackle rate last season for South Dakota was a career low 9.2%. Which for acorner, that's really good. Now, you do worry about, you know, developing him in man coverage, but you also maybe want to have a guy who's good in zone because I think in that Houston GPE game, that playoff game, the Browns ORG, you know, were carved up in zone, basically because they struggled in zone. So maybe having a slot guy in Hardin PERSON who you can eventually play outside, who has experience in zone. That's, that's an interesting weapon to deploy as you continue to build out this cornerback room. And now him being the fifth guy in there behind, obviously the top three guyswe mentioned in Cameron Mitchell, you give Harden PERSON time to develop. And that physicality, I think we'll also show up on special teams.

Speaker 21906.58s - 1909.72s

So before we take this break, I do want to say this.

Speaker 01909.76s - 1912.26s

And I mentioned this on the pod the other day.

Speaker 21912.46s - 1959.24s

But Lance texts us on Sunday. And he mentions that he's got to watch a bunch of South Dakota State ORG film. Now, on Sunday, I basically just laid on the couch and stared at the ceiling. Like, that's all I could, that's all I could muster up to do after Draft Week. And I had the Guardians ORG game on in the background. I struggled to go get dinner a little later in the day.And meanwhile, Lance texts us later and he'd already watched, like, all the South Dakota's GPE film. So, but I mean, both of you, both of you are just built different when it comes to this draft stuff. But, yeah, that was, that's what we're dealing with here. So when you're listening to these guys talk about these prospects, I'm sitting here staring at the ceiling on Sunday, and Lance is watching South Dakota's GPE film.

Speaker 11959.5s - 1992.1s

As I said that, I'm like, man, I might need to get out more. It's like, it's, you know, you watch, I really, you know, what's funny too is you try to do so much homework and you try to be knowledgeable, especially when I'm talking with people like you who have been doing this and understand what you're doing. And of course, you get a curveball, right? You get a guy who've done very little on, right? So I'm like, first question I get when I have watched is, Harden PERSON, what are you seeing Harden? I'm like, I got to do some homework because I don't havea lot to say about them right now. So that was why I did that because I didn't do enough homework. So I had to make sure that I had my homework done when future questions came.

Speaker 21993.3s - 2013.5s

All right. Well, we are going to take a break. We're 35 minutes into this. We haven't even talked about Michael Hall PERSON yet, which is why I love doing this. That's why I wanted to do it this format. So when we come back, we'll get into some of the names that we haven't gotten to yet. I wanted to do it this format. So when we come back, we'll get into some of the names that we haven't gotten to yet. And back on the Orange of Brown Talk podcast, Ant Lobby, Tim Bilick, Lance Reis, on breaking down the Browns ORG draft.

Speaker 32013.8s - 2014.72s

Okay.

Speaker 22015.8s - 2058.58s

Let's get to it. Mike Hall Jr., the Brown's first pick, number 54 overall. This was one of those moments I've had. We talk so much about the traits Andrew Berry likes, the things this team values. And when they took my call and, you know, I was starting to put together my column on him and you see the measurables, you see the age, you see the fact that he had the second best pass rush win rate among FBS defensive tackles.It all made sense as to why he's a Cleveland GPE Brown. Tim PERSON, where did you have my call? Did this pick surprise you at all? I don't know if surprises the way. I don't know that everybody was like shocked by this pick. But I guess what did you think of this pick and where the Browns ORG got him?

Speaker 02059.12s - 2191.82s

I thought it made a lot of sense. I thought there was a lot of good value with Michael Hall Jr. At pick 54, really diving into the athletic numbers just pulling it up right now. I did that little snippet that if you've checked out the Cleveland Browns on Cleveland.com ORG YouTube channel, you probably see my short. I talked about Michael Hall PERSON being disruptive, explosive, even looking in his athletic testing numbers. You know, a 47540, a 2099 pounds, that's amazing enough, butI'm more interested in that 10-yard split 1.65. That's outstanding in and of itself, and that translates to what you see out there. It's incredibly disruptive, gets off that snap quick, just tough to corral in the interior. And even looking up the time to pressure graph, which I've seen on there, he was the best of any of those guys out there. It barely three seconds. And if you're talking about a Brown's defense where teams are going to try to throw the ball quicker on a, out there. He was the best of any of those guys out there. It barely three seconds.And if you're talking about a Brown's defense where teams are going to try to throw the ball quicker on a because you have to worry about Miles Garrett, getting a guy even get in the backfield just as quick in the middle might be even better than trying to have a quick guy who can win quickly off the edge. So I think with Hall PERSON, certainly there's a lot of explosive tools, durability. It may be a concern, but I don't think, I don't think it's that much of a concern. It feels like you miss games with more,you know, smaller nagging injuries more than anything. And to me, that's your typical football. Your average player is going to miss a handful of games, you know,he's got an ankle injury, he's got a shoulder injury, you know, that he's going to have to fight through. Maybe he has to miss a couple weeks. That's not my concern, Michael Hall PERSON,what Michael Hall Jr. What I think he needs to work on, and I think because of the depth of Browns ORG have at defensive tackle, they can be patient with him is being more complete as a run defender. We know what it could be as a past rusher. We know that.We know he's just so disruptive on the interior that he's tough to block because of just how quick he can get off the snap, how explosive he is off the snap, how explosive he is off the snap, and the motor he has. That makes him a tough block for guards. What's going to be interesting is how he improves as a run defender. And obviously you have guys on this Brown ORG's defense that are good, I guess we're on,particularly Dalvin Tomlinson PERSON in the middle, where you can just really selectively deploy Michael Hall PERSON in pastura situations by and large, maybe this entire rookie season as he gets stronger and understands those concepts more.

Speaker 22192.32s - 2234.3s

Lance, I think this is a good situation for Hall for what Tim PERSON just said. I mean, if the Browns were going to play a game tomorrow, Dalvin Tomlinson and Quentin Jefferson PERSON are prior starters inside. And then, of course, you got Shelby Harris PERSON, who, yeah, I think Shelby Harris PERSON is a lock for the roster, I think based on what they paid him.I think Mo Hurst PERSON might have to fight a little bit to get on, but, you know, he's a veteran guy that'll be in the mix. Siaki Iika PERSON will see. But I think this is a good situation for Michael Jr. For the reason Tim PERSON just mentioned is he can be a little more situational. And as Jim Schwartz PERSON likes to do these line changes, you know, mid-drive sometimes even,he's going to have an opportunity to play without having to be this every down defensive tackle right away.

Speaker 12234.82s - 2371.78s

Well, if you look at Jim Schwartz's PERSON defense, very, very simple. And the thing that you get is that on third down, it doesn't become, it becomes level one. And I try to explain this to someone the other day. So when you think about a defensive line and gap integrity and the backers, once he gets to a third down, if Schwartz gets you a third down is level one, level two, and level three. Level two guys got to be toughand tackle and cover, level, the back guy's got to be able to keep it over top. But those defensive line, he's looking for matchups. So Hall gives you that matchup issue that Schwartz wants. You can bump him out to he can play on the five technique. He's looking for a matchup. And I think what he gives you is to give enough pass rush because Miles Garrett's still your guy you're finding matchups with. And it's not good on good with Schwartz. Schwartz is going to find your weakest link and he's going to kick you and you're down.And that's kind of what good defensive coordinators do. I love his first step. He's his best move right now is an arm over. Now in college, he'll have to be a little bit more elaborate with his pass rush skill set because he wins with athleticism right now. And that's fantastic because you can't teach that. But when you get to the NFL ORG, he'll have to, his pass rush plan is really good, but it's not like some. His athleticism is better than most. And that's a plan.So it's very, very much like an Alex Wright PERSON, you know, maybe not. I think Hall PERSON's a little more talented physically. But he wins with athleticism. You don't win with athleticism in the NFL ORG because everybody's an athlete. You have to be a technician, too. So he'll get that.He's very poor against the run in terms of what a normal defensive tackle has to do. But he doesn't, you know, those guys are gap penetrators. Those guys are upfield guys. They, they get trapped. You know, he'll take his L's, you know, he'll take his losses once in a while. It's a perfect scheme fit.It's a perfect, like you guys said, rotational fit. He'd come in a third down and just turn it loose without a lot of run responsibility. And a lot of, you know, when you talk about setting up someone for success or failure, I think I think Coach Schwartz is the best at that, right? So if this guy is not great against the run, but don't put him out there in first down against a run team. You know, there is, you know, get him out there where he can be successful.And I think that's what he does with these guys is he gets them in positions. They can be successful. And that's how they draft. And that's they're, they're in line from their coaches to their, you know, all those guys are in line right now of what they want to do. And I think Michael Hall PERSON fits it perfectly. Really talented guy.

Speaker 22372.4s - 2459.92s

And the other piece of this, too, and I think it's always important to mention with this pick, is we're seeing, you know, as you start to look for trends in the NFL ORG, right? Obviously, edge rushers have always gotten paid. But we're starting to see defensive tackles catch up. And when you look at some of the yearly averages of salaries and you think about when these guys signed these deals, it's happened recently. Chris Jones just signed a new deal. He's getting $31 million. Christian Wilkins just signed a big deal. 27.5 million. These are the yearly averages.Just in Matabeeke, $24.5 million. And you kind of just go through the list. Christian Barmore just signed a huge contract extension with the Patriots ORG. I saw it was the biggest non-Tom Brady PERSON extension that they've given. So defensive tackle is becoming really important. And then all weekend long, what we heard over and over again is it's not so much just valuing tackle. It's valuing tackles that can get after the passer.And so Tim PERSON, you look at the number 54 pick last year with this cost controlled contract. His cap number the next three years, $1.4, $1.7, and $2 million. So if Mike Hall Jr. PERSON becomes a high-level pass rusher, you know, this is where that value of that draft pick comes in hand.And I think we're seeing it with ed rushers, wide receivers, defensive tackles. I think tackle is starting to get into that class of if you can draft a really good guy and have him cost-controlled.

Speaker 02461.84s - 2565.6s

That's going to help you a lot down the road. I mean, that's the analytics dream is, you know, having highly talented, high leverage players, you know, on those super cost control rookie contracts. That's obviously the dream that you hope to have, you know, not even just with any premium positions just across the board. It's just basic economics, you know, the better players you have for lower salaries, the more money you have to free up, you know, for veterans or, you know, to resign these guys to longer term deals down the road. And with Michael Hall kind of coming in, you know, it doesn't turn 21 until June, we talked about, you know, the Andrew Barry profile of young, power five. I mean, this fits that bowl to a T where, you know, by the time he's into 24, 25 years old, you know, you're already starting to get into the time where, you know, Dalvin Tomlinson PERSON is going to get much older. You know, you don't have much young talent right now at defensive tackle.You know, Miles Garrett, I mean, we talk about Miles Garrett being Superman PERSON, you know, basically he's going to be in his 30s by that point. So having young edge rushers to continue to restock that is just so important to have. And so with Michael Hall PERSON, more so than maybe they took Chris Jenkins and thinking about the names that Mary Kaye PERSON mentioned, you know, other guys that the Browns ORG were looking at,Byron Murphy and Jorjohn Newton, 100%. I completely agree with that sentiment because both those guys are more than are multidimensional defensive tackles. And they went up one higher, I think, than Michael Hall PERSON, because they have more, they're better against the run right now than Michael Hall Jr. PERSON is. is so intriguing. That is going to be fascinating to see how Jim Schwartz taps into that, you know, over this year and how he continues to round out therest of his game so that he could have, if he becomes a true difference making three down defensive tackle, getting him at 54 is just incredible value. All right. So let's talk about the other defensive tackle they drafted them at 54 is just incredible value.

Speaker 22565.74s - 2612.54s

All right. So let's talk about the other defensive tackle they drafted. And this is actually the only name we haven't mentioned yet. And that is Joanne Briggs out of Cincinnati, started at Virginia ORG. Really interesting guy. He is married and has three kids. He sang in an a cappella group at Virginia ORG.He plays a bunch of instruments, including harmonica. You know, I'm going to run this by you guys, because I threw this at Ashley PERSON and she disagreed with me on the pod the other day. She listed all these instruments that he played and then threw harmonica in at the end. Does harmonica count?Like, if you're good at harmonica, is that something that you brag to people about? I mean, I guess, I don't know. I mean, Neil Young PERSON, right? Like, he's a big harmonica guy, but I don't know. Is that something you... I mean, if...

Speaker 12612.54s - 2621.3s

I'm going hard no. I'm just... My first initial thought is hard no. I mean, I think it's impressive. I think it's like, it's extra, right?

Speaker 32621.4s - 2627.38s

Like, you play the guitar and then you throw in a Billy Joel PERSON harmonica once in a while, right?

Speaker 12627.44s - 2632.4s

But you got to be able to do something else, piano, you got to be able to do something else. You can't be solo harmonica. There's no way.

Speaker 22632.48s - 2642.16s

Yeah, like, again, to use the Neil Young PERSON example, you're sitting there like, oh, this song's great, I love it. And then the harmonica just comes to the, yes, let's go. But I don't know.

Speaker 02642.62s - 2651.84s

I would 100% disagree as well, but I'm a drummer by nature, so I don't know how much of a lake I have to stand on right there. I don't know.

Speaker 22651.96s - 2663.72s

Drumming is, that's a tough one. I don't think I have the hand-eye coordination to do that, to be honest. Okay, anyway, off the rails here. Jawan PERSON, it's awesome.

Speaker 02663.88s - 2666.88s

It's great that you play all these, that you're so musically inclined.

Speaker 22668.44s - 2677.84s

I have musically inclined children. I'm all for it. But I'm just saying, harmonica, I don't know. Let's just, let's not worry about that. Controversial take. Lance PERSON, tell me about this guy.One of Bruce Feldman's PERSON freaks.

Speaker 12679.46s - 2762.62s

Well, he is a freak, right? So you're talking 39 reps on the bench press. He's got, so film-wise, I see what they like. So he's a one-gap guy. He is an absolute strong. My first note on him is he's a bull in a china shop. And what I mean by that, there's guys who aren't laterally very good at all levels.And what they do, though, is they get off the ball and they consistently get off the ball and they're relentless with it. And when you watch him get off the ball, that's what he does. So, you know, if you're at that three technique, there's a couple different ways that you can beat a blockback of a guard pulls. You can cross his face or you can beat him, right? So if you think about the Aaron Donald's where he's just beating him, you know, he kind of does it on accident. He's justa guy who's going to get in a stance and he's going to come with everything he's got on every play. And once again, he's not, he doesn't have a super pass rush repertoire right now. He doesn't, he's not great against the run. But what he is really good at is he's really strong. He's got great contact balance. He plays with really good leverage.He plays with an outstanding motor. When you tell me about all this stuff he does, it's hard to be a football player to do all that stuff. So it tells me he likes what he's doing. He's attention to detail. I just think he plays with his hair on fire. Got really, without question, my number one note is here. His get-off is really,really good. It's high level. It's second day, end of first day, get off in terms of reading that snap and getting off. He got some things he needs to work out. But once again, this is a scheme

Speaker 22762.62s - 2819.4s

fit because he gets off the football. One of my favorite Andrew Berry quotes of all time came last year in his pre-draft presser when he said, we always talk about horses versus geese. A goose, it can walk, it can fly, it can run, but it kind of waddles when it walks. It doesn't really fly high and it doesn't run real fast. A horse, it can't swim, it can't fly, but it's a really great runner. It's like, okay, if we're talking about players, we would take horse traits.We call them horse traits. And a part of that is sort of this bigger point of, if somebody's got a really elite trait or somebody does something really well, that's a guy that they really like on day three of the draft. And so again, Tim PERSON,going back to this idea that it's a seventh round pick, it's your last pick of the draft. And so again, Tim, going back to this idea that it's a seventh round pick. It's your last pick of the draft. And this guy ends up, again, on Bruce Feldman's freak list, this is the type of athlete you want to take. And if it works, great. If it doesn't, that's okay. It was a seventh round pick. Yeah. And even looking at his, you know, athletic numbers,

Speaker 02819.4s - 2914.92s

you know, a five flat 40, that's really good for defensive tackle at 313 pounds, which is kind of upper end, you know, upper end wage for defensive tackle running that 40. So that's a really good job. And then obviously the bench press, you mentioned at 39 reps, just absolutely incredibly strong. So I think when it comes to Joanne Briggs PERSON, I think what he seems like is he's a guy who's going to hold up blocks. And anytime you can disrupt run blockers, if you can keep a guard from getting to the second level or a center from getting to the second level,and if you could keep him attached you for just a little bit longer, just enough to disrupt that timing. I think you've done your job. Part of, I think, what makes Briggs kind of where he is, kind of a late seventh borderline draftable guy, is maybe that he is a little one-dimensional,that he maybe isn't, you know, a super early pass rusher. But if you're looking just for guys that are going to fill a specific role, and like you mentioned, high-end athlete, you could, if he's a high enough athlete, he competes hard enough and he's able to, you know, hold blocks, there's a lot worse you could do for a seventh round pick than a guy who can, you know, take up some blocks. I think in some ways with the defensive tackle, that's kind of an old school type of player you want in there. Maybe not as big as Siaki Ika PERSON, but the style of game you want them to play where they're taking up blocks, where they're not giving up a lot of ground.I kind of, people criticize the fact that he's only 6'1. I kind of like that because it's the idea of low man wins, the idea of having the leverage. It's not as easy when you're a big 666 guard or center trying to get leverage on a six foot one guy who's got a lot of power. That makes him interesting as far as a run defender goes.

Speaker 22915.66s - 2984.46s

Yeah. And look, the reality is, you're not going to get a perfect prospect at 240, whatever, the Brown ORG's picked him out. You're just not going to get a perfect prospect there. There's going to be some flaws. But if you can harness a trait, and again, this is sort of like the cornerback thing, I'll give Jim Schwartz PERSON a guy with traits on the defensive line and say, see what you can do with him. I'll do that all day. And again, if it works great, if it doesn't, that's okay. We'll go find somebody else and just keep trying it over and over again. All right, I know we're like a week removed from the draft,but I didn't get to talk to you guys about some of the stuff that happened last week. And so I know everyone's shared their opinions on this, but there's two big quarterback questions I want to ask you guys about what we saw. And the very first one is the decision the Atlanta Falcons ORG made, taking Michael Pennix at number eight overall. I just, I'm still a little flabbergasted by it, but Tim PERSON, I'm kind of curious, you know,you study this stuff, you talk through, you know, like you have draft strategies, you have opinions on what teams should do with those high leverage picks. What did you think of that move?

Speaker 02984.82s - 3071.52s

I've seen a lot of drafts and I will say before I get into this take, I am a big Michael Pennix fan. I honestly like him more than JJ McCarthy as far as pure talent is concerned. I think the intangibles and, you know, McCarthy PERSON being a younger player is why I would kind of, I would take him earlier than Pennix PERSON. But when I saw the name come across Twitter, I let out, that was quite a wow, I let out.Maybe I don't, it's almost hyperbole to say it's one of the most shocking draft moments I can never remember. But it really was. I mean, they had just signed Kirk Cousins PERSON to a big money contract. You know, if you even wanted to take a receiver, Roma Dunse PERSON is right there at number eight to take.You could take an offensive lineman and Laiatulatu or Dallas Turner. They're waiting right there for you. But I don't understand the idea of taking quarterback eighth overall when you invested so much winning Kirk Cousins, when you're trying to win now, when an edge rusher or, you know, Romadunze PERSON, or even an offensive lineman, like Olu Fascheneu was right there for you to take a quarterback at eight. I mean, my goodness, that, like, I mean, I did not give them, I will say I did not give them my worst grade of the draft, but that was a pretty, that's baffling.And to me, I'm still just thinking, well, panics better be really good, because if he's not, then this looks even worse. Yeah, look, the spin cycle was out in full force

Speaker 23071.52s - 3111.96s

after the pick. You started to see some people zag on the idea of, well, you know, this guy could, Kirk Cousins PERSON is older, how much longer is he going to play? Now you've got the next guy. But I just think when you have a pick that high in the draft, unless you're picking a starting, a guy who's going to start, maybe you're going to sit him for a year or whatever, do the play. Now you've got the next guy. But I just think when you have a pick that high in the draft, unless you're picking a starting, a guy who's going to start, maybe you're going to sit him for a year or whatever, do the Patrick Mahomes PERSON. Okay, I get that. But I think at number eight overall, you have to take a guy that's going to come in and playand contribute and help you right away. And you can figure out your next quarterback. You can take some flyers on guys later. But Lance PERSON, I mean, what did you think? I mean, you're the coach here too. So I don't know, maybe you like the idea of having a pretty solid plan B at quarterback. Well, you do.

Speaker 13112.42s - 3143.5s

But, you know, when you invest that much money, you're telling the world right now he is older and you invested that much money. So it's a win now window, right? So it's a 36 month window, I like to say. So it's, if you're in a win now window, you need some people. You need some people that you need around him. So I had Pennix PERSON as my number three guy. I was Caleb Williams. I'm not a big Drake May fan in terms of. So I had Penix PERSON number three behind Caleb and JJ. But he's super talented. And in fact, he's one of my favor in terms of plus 15

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throws, which is I try to make a cut up of plus 15 throws.

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Outstanding accuracy, all that kind of good stuff. It just really comes down to you pay the guy that you want money. Go get him some people. You know, you put him at the table, get him some food now. And I just think that made no sense in terms of like what they need. Very, very interesting.But in terms of film breakdown, which I try to stick with, outstanding quarterback, and I think he can be a really good pro. His plus 15 throws are about as fun to watch. Put like 17, 18 on film.And boy, he makes some outstanding throws over 15 yards.

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I thought it was interesting, you know, when you talk about having J.J. McCarthy is your number two. I watched a little bit of the Bill Belichick, Pat McAfee draft coverage. And Bill was hard on these guys on film. He was not. He was hard on these guys when he was breaking them down. But I'll tell you when he talked about J.J. McCarthy, you could tell it was a little different. I think he really liked JJ too. He didn't just come out and say it. But I think he really liked him. Tim PERSON, who had the best draft, do you think?

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I got, I had to give it, you know, I was kind of, I had a couple A pluses. I'll just go with two. The Bears, I thought, you know, getting Caleb Williams, Roma Dune's a awesome job, you know, especially, you know, you have two top 10 picks. You've kind of rebuilt your offense. Outstanding job, Karana Magaji in the third round. I thought, you know, good depth offensive line and a guy who developed that maybe starts in 2025. And who doesn't love them taking a punter in the third round, I thought, you know, good depth offensive line. And a guy who developed that maybe starts in 20, 25? And who doesn't love them taking a punter in the fourth round? I mean, I kind of love the joke with Tori Taylor and Caleb Williams texting. He was like, you're not going to be punting much for us in the near future. But even if you, I kind of love the idea that even if you don't have success on offense,you have a guy who could flip the field and keep pinning teams inside the 20 with the defense that's as good as Chicago ORG's. It's kind of, you know, it's a little bit of chess instead of checkers with the bears there. And with the Steelers ORG, they got the A plus for me. I mean, my goodness, Omar Khan is really taking it back old school, going three interior offensive linemen in the first handful of rounds in this draft. Troy Fautano PERSON, you know, and then Zach Frazier, they've rebuilt the interior of that offensive line, not to mention Mason McCormick PERSON,who I mentioned before had that money ball short, subtle time that I talked about, wherever it's 4-4-7 or faster, you've got a guy who's probably going to start a bunch of games in the NFL be successful. McCormick fit in that category for me. So, I mean, you get three potential interior lines starters in a draft. That's an outstanding job. But then Lance talks about the Payton Wilson pick in number 98. For me, it was the pick before that.Right before the Brown is going on the clock, Roman Wilson PERSON goes off the board. And I'm thinking, I'm sitting there and I'm like, the one guy that would have fit the Browns ORG so, like, perfectly. Because I was big, I'm like the one guy that would have fit the Browns ORG so like perfectly because I was big I'm a big Roman Wilson guy. He was the one guy I wrote about the senior bowl wife said Browns ORG fan should pay more attention to him. That was like the first YouTube short I did on the draft about the draft this year. He was one pick away from falling to the Browns ORG. I don't know if they would have taken him overZach Zinter. But when you talk about smart, tough, and accountable, Roman Wilson PERSON feels, especially you put tough in bold letters for Roman Wilson. And now it goes to Pittsburgh ORG. He's essentially the Deontay Johnson replacement. I mean, my goodness, what a weekend for Omar

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Colin. Lance, you had mentioned the Steelers draft earlier when we grilled you on Peyton Wilson PERSON.

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Was there another draft you really liked? Well, like you said, first of all, with the Steelers draft, not only you have Peyton Wilson PERSON, who you another draft you really liked? Well, like you said, first of all with the Steelers draft, not only you have Peyton Wilson, who you guys are lucky because you would have to shut your phones down for a couple of days, but it didn't happen. But Zach Frazier PERSON, like, do they find, does anybody find guys that fit their mold more than the Steelers? Like, Zach Frazier, four-time wrestling state champ. I can tell you as a coach at the high school level, wrestlers are a different animal, right?And then you get Peyton Wilson and Roman Wilson PERSON, like you said, and, you know, Logan Lee even, just a long big five technique in their odd front. So the other one I really like was the Philadelphia Eagles. And the idea that they got Cooper Dejean at 40 was outstanding. I think Mitchells, so they secured their defensive secondary, really liked Will Shipley late in the fourth round. I know Tim PERSON really liked him. And there's some traits that I really liked about in terms of his versatility.He's a guy who could split out. He's a guy who can do a bunch of different things with Hertz PERSON and those guys. He just adds a bunch of stuff. And then they got Jeremiah Trotter PERSON. And that was in the fifth round, which I really like too. So he's a guy that I know all three of us I talked about leading up toin terms of the lineage and his ability to make plays and coming from a big program. So I thought the Philadelphia Eagles ORG, again, were very good in who they got. Not only for what they are, win now, but guys in the future. I love what they did at corner. I love Mitchell PERSON. I've seen Mitchell play a couple of times. Love Mitchell PERSON. Huge Cooper Dejan fan because I think he can do so much. But now you've got two high-level athletes at the corners.I don't know. I thought the Eagles were pretty spot on too, along with the Bears ORG, Ten Seed and Steelers ORG as well.

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I don't want to make this the Cooper Dejean podcast, but how did he not, how did the Ravens not take him at 30?

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This is not meant to be disrespectful to Nate Wiggins PERSON.

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I like Nate Wiggins, but when you think play like a Raven, Cooper to Gene PERSON fits that to a T. I mean, absolute playmaker, run support corner. Like, you want a corner, you want to, you lost a lot of guys of Baltimore ORG on that defense, not just your defense corner. You lost a handful of guys on that defense. There's question I feel like here, your number two corner is Cooper DeGine PERSON was incredibly physical.He's more physically built right now than Nate Wiggins PERSON. And me personally, I would have taken DeGene easily over Nate Wiggins PERSON. Now I say that Nate Wiggins PERSON is probably going to be a multiple time all pro.

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But again, I like Nate Wiggins PERSON. I just preferred DeGine PERSON a little more. By the way, something we haven't talked a ton about, but Tim PERSON, you mentioned it, Mike McDonald leaving Baltimore and taking that Seattle ORG head coaching job. I think that's a big. That's big. That might be one of the biggest losses of any team in the AFC North because I think there's a chance that he's the best defensive coordinator in footballright now. But we'll see how that all plays out. That's for another podcast. So I appreciate you guys jumping on and doing this going over the Browns ORG draft. Make sure you're subscribed to this podcast on Apple Podcasts and Spotify ORG. Find us on YouTube, Cleveland Browns on Cleveland.com and on Instagram ORG search Orange and Brown Talk and become a football insider subscriber. Cleveland.com slash Browns ORG, the blue banner at the top of the page.Again, Tim and Lance PERSON, I really appreciate it.

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And thanks everyone for listening.