Harry Binswanger Comments on the Columbia Protests – 1968 and Today

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As of today, according to the New York Times, over 2,800 people have been arrested at protests at universities across the United States on over 60 college campuses. One of the most prominent of these protests happened to Columbia University in New York GPE, where both student and non-student activists invaded and occupied the campus for days, culminating in the occupation of Hamilton Hall, all to protest Israel's war in Gaza GPE. This was probably deliberate repetition of similar events from 1968 involving activists who were there to protestat the time the Vietnam War EVENT, among other causes. Welcome to New Ideal, the podcast of the Iron Rann Institute. I'm Ben Baer. With me today to discuss these protests and their history is Dr. Harry Binswanger PERSON. Dr. Binswanger is an objectivist philosopher, was a friend of Ayn Rand's in New York for many years. He's now a member of the Ayn Rain Institute's ORG board of directors. He's the author of multiple books, including how we know histomology on an objectivist foundation and the biological basis of teleological concepts. And relevant to ourconversation today, he was a graduate student in philosophy at Columbia University in 1968, where he witnessed the protests that I just referenced and was also involved in opposing them. So welcome, Harry PERSON.

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Thank you.

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Before we start talking about this, I want to let our viewers know up front that we recently released a short clip from a radio broadcast by Einrand PERSON commenting on these same 1968 protests that we're about to discuss. And this week, Wednesday will also be releasing the full recording of the full broadcast that those excerpts were taken from. But if you'd like to listen to the short broadcast that's already up on our YouTube channel, you can go to Bitley GPE slash AR Columbia and take a listen.We'll come back to Ayn Rand's views on these events later in our conversation today. But for the moment, Harry, why don't we start by just getting some facts straight about the history of these protests at Columbia ORG? Tell us your memory of how they began in 1968 and what the activists were claiming to be working towards. And also tell us your thoughts on whether these were there was any reality to what they were claiming at the time.

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I'm glad to do that because I was a personal actor in the events and I was a member of a seven-man group of objectivists at Columbia who started opposing them the Students for Democratic Society ORG, the new left group in 1966 or 67. I'm going to show you a clipping from the newspaper of Columbia ORG, the Daily Spectator ORG. This is from spring 1967, and it says, New Group, you probably can't read it.Their new group arises to battle SDS ORG. Again, SDS ORG was students for a democratic society, or as we styled them, students for a dictatorial society. They were a spawn of the new left. They were a national organization. The new left was formed at a meeting in Port Huron, Michigan in 1963. They had a manifesto. They had an ideology of sorts. And they are behind these riots that happened at Columbia ORG while I was there.So in 1967, a year before, they were launching trial balloons of protests, of violence on campus with various forms. And we formed the Committee for the Defense of Property Rights ORG, the objectivists who were attending Columbia ORG at that time. And the sign on air, this is our little desk or table on low library plaza behind us. There are hundreds of leftist SDS ORG people attacking university.And our sign here, which you can't read, I suppose, says abolish SDS. can't read, I suppose, says abolish SDS ORG. So we were very hard hitting to defend the rights of the university, of the students who had a contractual relationship with the university, against these goons. And that's what they were. The pretexts that you will read about on Wikipedia ORG,the building of a gymnasium in Morningside Heights GPE next to the university and ties to a military research group were total pretext. They had no interest in them. They wanted to have a communist revolution. At this time, the new left thought of itself is not connected to old-style communism in the Soviet Union GPE.They wanted a more anarchic participatory democracy kind of communism. They used to say communism with a small C. That's how open the stateism was of this group. So I was taking a philosophy of logic course at Columbia ORG. It happened to be in Hamilton Hall FAC, and it happened to be on the very day,met on the Tuesday. When I went to class at 10 a.m., I couldn't get in because the building was occupied. So I witnessed these events firsthand. I hung around campus. I didn't live on campus, but I spent time there to witness these events. And I can tell you they were not about anything other than attempting to bring, stupidly, a communist revolution to America. I say stupidly because they had zero chance of success,and they were living in a delusional world where they thought the people would be with them. And the American people in 1968 elected Richard Nixon in response to, partly in response to what happened to the Democratic National Convention, where the same people, the leftists organized riots and violence there. So I've seen this movie before.There are differences which we'll go into later, but I can tell you that it was an ideological attempt to establish communism in the United States GPE, and they were prepared to use

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any means necessary. Yeah, so there was even, as as I understand a red flag flying over one of the buildings and students had put a portrait of Chairman Mao PERSON over the door of the building.

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Everyone had a portrait of Chairman Mao. That was not a Mao and Che Guevara PERSON. People I knew from the little town I grew up in had that. Amal and Che Guevara PERSON. People I knew from the little town I grew up in had that. That wasn't what was distinctive. What was distinctive was that they were an organized cadre of new left people. For instance, the leader of this SDS and of the whole Columbia ORG rebellion or riotswas a man named, or boy at that time, named Mark Rudd PERSON. Mark Rudd's PERSON father was a agitator lawyer. He was a pretty much a communist NORP, a social, something very far left. And he was a lawyer, and he spent his life attacking America GPE through legal action. It was not about the Vietnam War EVENT, although they opposed the war. They were very definitely against the war because it had two things that made them very motivated.One was America GPE was in it, and they hated America. The second was we were fighting communists and they loved communists. So they were definitely on the, one of the chance was Ho Ho Chi Men PERSON, who was the head of the communist government of North Vietnam that was invading the South LOC. So they were against the war, but the whole thing was an attempt to extend the Berkeley Student Rebellion of 64to go as far towards shaking up American NORP society and gaining power as they could, which turned out to be not too far immediately, but very far long term.

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I take it one of the things that they were trying to extend from Berkeley ORG was the tactics that they used. Can you comment on what you observed and what you also know the way they

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undertook these protests? Not. They went much farther than the Berkeley ORG rebels in 64 because the Berkeley ORG rebels had paved the way. The thing that was the most shocking was one night when I was there and these leftists werejust rampaging around the campus, running around, throwing bricks through windows, whooping it up. And I saw a light in a window on theI would say the third floor of one of the buildings that didn't look like it had any explanation. All the buildings were dark. The campus had been shut down, and there was this light glowing. Later, I learned that what I was seeing was the fire they had set burning the notes of a history professor who was too modest, moderate for them. Orest A. Rannum, who was a history professor, back in those days, we didn't have computers. In 1968, there was the big mainframe, but no one had a personal computer.They didn't exist yet. So his notes, 30 years of notes were on three by five cards. The rioters burned them. So took away 30 years of his life in a book burning kindurning kind of situation done because although he sympathized

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with the student cause socialism communism he was moderate and they wanted to radicalize all the

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moderate that was the term radicalize to take the ones who were middle leftists and push them to the far left as they were and they succeeded to an amazing extent in doing that and there was even

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a kind of hostage situation wasn't there a what a hostage situation well I didn't know about that at the time

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so I can't speak to that because I I only heard about that much afterwards I didn't

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know about it at the time but a Dean Dean Coleman PERSON was reported to be held hostage

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I don't think that was in the news coverage at the time.

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There wasn't any news coverage of the burning of Professor Ranum PERSON's notes either.

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The news coverage, aside from the New York Daily News ORG, which is a tabloid for working people, the general news coverage, as in the New York Times, and which is a tabloid for working people, the general news coverage, as in the New York Times, and even the Wall Street Journal ORG, was very flattering to the leftists. Well, the youthful idealists that go too far, there are some elements in them, who, in among them that give the group a bad name, but there's some rotten apples in any group. And the real problem is what's wrong with America GPE. And that's what these youthful idealists are protesting against.Regrettably, they go too far sometimes. So that was the line of the major media.

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Now, the thing that most people, if they know anything about these protests know, is that they obviously didn't last. Eventually, the police, the NYPD ORG went in, broke them up. I think it actually happened twice when there was a second occupation, which had to be broken up again. That's the part that people remember about how the protesters were dealt with. But the university itself dealt with them ultimately in other ways. What can you say about how they...

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Yeah, I'd like to speak to that. i'd like to speak to that i'd like to speak to that because you see every you know i i oversee 95% of intellectuals for the last 100 years have been socialist. Whether they said it or not, in the humanities, not in engineering, for instance, where they're much less so.But the previous generation of behind these rioters, were all leftists, had all been communists in their youth. I say all, that's, you know, most. And they had no way to oppose the basic premises of the student rioters because they did think America GPE was evil. They did think the Communists,communism was the ideal, but it hadn't been put into practice successfully yet, but they were totally disarmed in dealing with their own children, literally in some cases and figur figuratively, and others. So they shared all the premises. You wonder, why do all the college towns vote heavily, heavily democratic? Because the ideology of all the universities for 50 or 100 years has beensocialist, and it has been socialist. And it's been socialist for a very good reason. Everybody accepts altruism. So those whose job it is to deal with ideas, altruism, the philosophy of service, self-sacrifice, damning individual achievement,damning greed, damning getting rich, damning individual achievement, damning greed, damning getting rich, damning individualism has been the morality of altruism and collectivism in politics. So you have two groups, those who are more thoughtful who think, well, we have to act on their principles. And those who are the conservatives who are less thoughtful and are prepared to say, well, we have to act on their principles. And those who are the conservatives who are less thoughtful and are prepared to say, no, that doesn't have anything to do with politics.Yes, I'm an altruist. Jesus PERSON said, give up your goods to the poor. The good Samaritan, all the parables of the Bible WORK_OF_ART, which a conservative soul sacred, are sacrifice, give up, and in effect communism. But they are less aware of the contradiction between that and the original American individualist, capitalist, egoist system. So they're prepared to make compromises, bigger compromises, than the professors are.Okay, so that's the situation in general. And the professors all, and the administration is either former professors or at the mercy of professors, professors are all very sympathetic to the ideas of these rioters. So they can't stand up to them. It's impossible. And they didn't.They kept the police off the campus for a week. When the police came on campus and dragged off these kids, some of them spent overnight in jail. Not one of them was ever brought to trial or convicted of anything. None of them were expelled. All of them were given amnesty. And that happens almost universally today. It doesn't matter what you read in the paper about, oh, 600 people are arrested. They're out either that same day or the next day. None of them will be prosecuted. None of them will serve jail time. Probably none of themwill be fined. And there will be no consequences at the universe. And it doesn't matter how strong they talk, which is very strong. Nothing ever happens and it can't happen because these are the parents of those kids. See, the imaginary situation is, well, students at these colleges are concerned. They have a commitment to X and Y. No, they don't. They're just doing what they're told. They're taught that America is the country built on slavery and slaughter of the Indians NORP.And they nod. And they're taught however difficult it may be to practice a society of sacrifice and service that gets rid of greed. Well, what could be more beautiful than that? You know, a Beatles PERSON song, imagine. It's an ideal. And they nod.Yes. And they do what they're told. They're little robots. So it's not coming from the students. The students are abject conformists. They're doing what the faculty.Now, again, it's the social sciences faculty. I don't even know the kind of weird departments they have today. But in what used to be English LANGUAGE, philosophy, history, political science, sociology, they're taught all these things. And it's no wonder then they put them into practice. But they're not the cause. The faculty and the ideas are the cause.So they won't be disciplined. They can't be disciplined.

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And in the 1968 case, it wasn't just that they weren't disciplined. It was even that the university acceded to their demands to the demand to not build the gymnasium and to not be involved with this defense group.

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Oh, that's small potatoes. The demands were we want students to help select the professors that teach here. And they gave in on that. Now, I think they retreated quietly, you know, over the years they made it more difficult for students to do that. But they wanted, their view was the students are the universe, students and faculty. But the students are the customer, students and faculty,but the students are the customer here, well they wouldn't use that language, but we are the soul and the body of the university, we should give the orders. And no one said, well, aren't you here to learn from those who know something you're ignorant of?And if they had said that, they would have said, what is knowledge? There is no truth. And where would they have gotten that, I wonder? From all their teachers going back to grade school as they were growing up. It's not a position you can defend philosophically. But that's what they all believe.There is no truth. There's no objectivity. There's no proof of anything. And therefore, what governs is your feelings. If it feels good, I'll do it. That was a big mantra of the period. Do your own thing. If it feels good, I'll do it. That was a big mantra of the period. Do your own thing. If it feels good,I'll do it. I'll try anything once. So their feelings were programmed by the ideas that had been fed into them, which were altruism, collectivism, and statism. So naturally they acted on them. They had no limits, no barriers.

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So some of this you've already spoken to, but I'm sure there's more details about how you got involved in opposing these activists in the first place. What can you tell us about how this Committee for the Defense of Property Rights, how it came to be, and how it differed from some of the other groups that were set up to oppose the activists.

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There were no other groups set up to oppose the activists. I noticed that there was some community, something that you gave me in notes beforehand. That was just a bunch of fraternity boys who decided they'd had enough during the middle of the occupation and tried to get together and rush the protesters. Very interesting thing, and it failed. Very interesting thing is that the conservatives disappeared. There were no conservative groups having, going back to this picture. This is our table, the objectivist, the seven of us there at Columbia ORG at the time,with all the leftists behind us. There was no, say William F. Buckley PERSON group, there were no other tables. There were no other oppositions because everyone was disarmed by the idea that these are youthful idealists, including the conservatives who held the same,always have held the same basic premises as the leftists. The leftists are just consistent. The conservatives think the sermon on the Mount is the guide to ethics and the Sermon on the Mount WORK_OF_ART secularized. There's no way to hold on to Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Samuel Adams, and Thomas Edison PERSON, and even Steve Jobs, and believe the ethics of Christianity ORG is correct. You can't do that. They're at war with each other.They're opposites. One says life is hell, and you should spend it repenting for your sins, which you can help committing. The other says, seize the day. Your life is your own. Make something of yourself.Enjoy it and earn what you get. Make sure it's earned. So there was no other voice on campus but ours. We got at one point a thousand, I have a news clipping here. This is a page from the Columbia Daily Spectator of May 16th that year. Over 1,000 support no amnesty stand of the Committee for Defense of Property Rights ORG. And the petition that we circulated, we paid for this ad, well, the undersigned people who were pretty much largely objectivist, but some other people had common sense, too. Petition was no amnesty, but they were effectively given amnesty.Withdrawal of university sanction of students for a democratic society, no. A firm policy declaration by the Columbia ORG administration that any future forcible disruption of university functions will be stopped without hesitation and by whatever means are necessary and that those responsible for criminal acts will be promptly arrested and expelled. No takeover, number four.Although student and faculty opinions should be considered, the decision-making process at Columbia must not be taken out of the hands of the trustees and administration, because they want students to make those decisions. We've got a thousand signatures signatures and that's roughly the same as the SDS ORG ever got for any of their petitions. It's roughly the same proportion. I think they might have had 1400, but after thiswas printed, we got some more.

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We got almost no attention.

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You probably never heard of that fact. We took out the full-page ad in the Columbia Spectator ORG. We got one or two mentions in various places on the conservative side of the spectrum. But basically, the whole country had gone into a love affair with the new left and the leftists. And even the liberals, after a while, were no longer in existence or had their heads in the sand or hiding. And the groups that were fighting were the socialists,the communists, and the Maoists NORP. I remember one of my philosophy professors, I saw him in a protest line. He was protesting Russia because Russia had been hostile to communist China under Mao PERSON. And he was a Maoist NORP.So that was Hillary Putnam PERSON, went on to become head of the American Philosophical Association ORG. So there was a total takeover. Now, of the intellectual and the media world, when I say total, I mean, you had to be paying attentionto find the little remnants of something other than socialist, communist, influence and propaganda in the media.

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You mentioned some of these full-page ads that you took out and other activism you were involved with. Einrand herself actually read two of the statements that the committee prepared on her radio program on WBAI on May 2nd, 1968. And in that same broadcast, she also related a number of ideas from her 1965 article on the Berkeley ORG campus protest. That was the caching in the Student Rebellion WORK_OF_ART article. What did you think of her statements and her analysis of this student protest phenomenon at the time? Did anything about it surprise you?How did it affect you and your activism on campus at the time. Did anything about it surprise you? How did it affect you and your activism on campus at the time?

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Well, it was, the issue was not what did I think of what she was saying, but what did she think of what I was saying? So in other words, everything that we did, we got from Einrand PERSON and her associates. Leonard Peekoff went over one or two of our broadside sheets and criticized it and made it help make it much better and generally strengthened it. So when the 1965 article came out, I was still an undergraduate school, and I read it with another friend who's still active in objectivism. And we tended to think it's a little overstated. She was talking about violence in the street.Now in 1964, 65, that was unthinkable. The most, what can we say, beyond the 50s that came into existence was the Beatles PERSON and the early Beatles. I want to hold your hand. You know, those early Beatles PERSON are very innocuous. The Muppets, the four Muppets, they called them. So it was a different world than it was just coming out of the 50s of Leave it to Beaver.And when she said that this Berkeley Rebellion EVENT was a trial balloon, and if it wasn't stopped, it was going to continue and there'd be violence. No, that, no, that's a little extreme. But then two years later, we were writing articles saying, Grace and Kirk, President of Columbia ORG, if you don't stand up to these SDS users of violence, there's going to be a Berkeleyrebellion here and it's going to grind the school to a halt. And of course, he didn't pay any attention to us. Who are we? We're not trying to advance altruism and socialism. Who are we? Where nobody were these Einran PERSON people, if he even knew that. So we were fueled by, as inspired by, scared by what Einrand had prophesized in 1964, 65, in these cashing in articles. And it's that that we were organized to combat, which we failed at completely. So our opposition had no effect whatsoever.Interesting. The SDS ORG kind of admired us. They left our tables alone. They would engage us in conversation, try to debate with us. They still had some ideas.And they thought what we were doing took guts, and we weren't the enemy. Their enemies were the liberals. We were fringe on the right, you know, if you want to call it that, the individual side. Conservatives were passe. It's the liberals, you know, the Hubert Humphrey PERSON types that they were aimed at. That's why they went to the Democratic National Convention EVENT and disrupted, not to the Republican Convention.They were not concerned with Nixon PERSON. They didn't want their own people, that is people on the left, to be compromised. They wanted to be pure. I don't know if that answered your original question.

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What would you say is the long-term legacy of this protest movement that was so prominent at Columbia obviously happened to many other campuses in the late 60s?

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Oh, yeah, swept the country.

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It was much bigger, yeah, much bigger than what's going on today in the late 60s. Oh, yeah, swept the country. It was much bigger.

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Yeah, much bigger than what's going on today in the terms of, the new left and these ideas were new back then. And it was the coming thing. Leonard Bernstein PERSON, the composer, conductor, celebrity, had cocktail parties for the Black Panthers ORG. It was called radical chic.So this was the way to be cool and hip back then was to lionize communists. Later, by the way, they did forge ties with Soviet Russia GPE. As you might expect, there wasn't any real difference between their brand of communism and the essential thing was communism. A book I can recommend, not objectivist, is by David Horowitz called Radical Son, S-O- WORK_OF_ARTN. He was a communist leader of the new left at this time and published a magazine called Ramparts ORG, of which I have a copy.And he became radicalized the other way. When the Black Panthers ORG, whom he was working with, murdered a black secretary, Betty von Patton in Oakland GPE, he realized these people are criminals. And he began shifting his allegiance. But he wrote this expose book about what really goes on on the left that nobody knows about. And it's an insider view. I recommend it's a fascinating and hair-raising story, Radical Sun by David Hor horowitz PERSON i don't agree with all of his ideas and hehasn't you know hasn't become an objectivist but what he wrote is really worth reading

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and someone like mark rudd who's instrumental in these columbia, goes on to help found the weather underground, which is responsible for real acts of terrorism. It's coincidence.

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My first run-in with them was when I tried to go to philosophy of logic on that Tuesday morning. The second run-in, I was teaching at the same time, of course, on objectivism at the new school for social research on 12th Street FAC in the village. On 10th Street FAC, there was a townhouse where they were making bombs in the basement,and it blew up. I wasn't around, but I was, you know, I was teaching a day or two later on 12th Street right next to, you know, the same north-east-west position at the new school and they killed several of their own when their own ineptitude caused this explosion that leveled,nothing but rubble for the townhouse that they were in. So, and Mark Rudd, I had two run-ins with him, but that maybe is not the story you want to hear.

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That's just personal biography.

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So you have to understand how empty these people were. Not as empty as today, but Mark Rudd PERSON was anemic-looking nothing. And the other members of the SDS ORG were like the nerds almost. And all they were doing was trying to practice what mommy and daddy had told them was the right way to live. So they were not giant malefactors, nor were they attempting to write the injusticeof a segregated facility, which wouldn't have been segregated in Harlem LOC. The facade was amazing when you looked at what the actual truth was underneath. So let's bring this back to today.

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And we had another set of protests at Columbia ORG along with many other campuses around the country in just the last few weeks. I know you wanted to draw some comparisons between the protests in 68 to the ones today. So how would you compare them and what lessons

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might you take from that comparison? I'm afraid it's worse today because of two things. The 68 riots were led by an organization that had a declaration of principles, the Port Huron GPE statement, and which had theories as kind of crazy as they were. There were philosophers in the group in SDS ORG. One in my class was the president of SDS ORG. They argued about things. When they met with each other.They debated ideas. And they were appealing to alleged evils that America was doing in the Vietnam War to poor Vietnamese NORP. There was a picture on the cover of Time or Newsweek ORG, I think Newsweek of a little baby fleeing the American NORP invasion. And there was a famous picture of a Vietnamese NORP setting himself on fire and burning to death to protest the American fighting in Vietnam GPE.Today, the protests got going to celebrate an atrocity committed by Hamas against Israel GPE. It was immediately after October 7th that these protests got going and that people started saying it was justified and started saying from the river to the sea and so forth. So whereas before the idea was no,it's America GPE is doing these atrocities. Here, they don't care. They don't care that babies were roasted in ovens. They don't care that hostages are still in the hands of captors. They don't care about the nature of Israel GPE versus the Arab states. They don't care about the welfare of Palestinians NORP. All they want to dois be on the side that will get praise. They have no ideas. Several journalists have said they tried to engage them and they would say, I'm not trained to speak to that. You should talk to so-and-so or read our demands. I'm not allowed to speak on behalf of the organization or whatever.So they chant, they march, they adopt the mantle of righteousness in order to fill the void that's in their own souls. They don't have ideas. They're not thinking. They're not debating. And they don't care about the slaughter of innocent people.So it's much lower. It would have been more or less bad, I was going to say better, but less bad if the atrocities of October 7th had slowed them down and required them to wait until the public forgot about them, which it didn't take too long. But no, it energized them. Worthy of Hitler's worst SS ORG camp, concentration camp guards,legendary level atrocities, spurred them on. And they don't care that the committers of these atrocities gleefully called home and said, I've killed two Jews today, to their parents, and that they put things up on YouTube or other social media celebrating what they had done. That doesn't, that isn't even discussed. So it's a lower, much lower level of civilization.Just as the 68 Rebellion was much, much lower than the 30s red decade of communist activism. So this one is much lower than the one that preceded it.

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Sobering thoughts, but thank you so much for your perspective on this, Harry PERSON. I don't know how many of our viewers knew about your history with this event in the 60s. It's great to get your perspective on it. I'd like to close by again reminding our viewers about the clip from Einrand PERSON that we recently released, which they can watch, commenting on these same protests, reading some of the statements from the Committee for the Defense of Property Rights ORG, of which you remember.This is just a kind of six-minute, I think six-minute video with the juiciest excerpts. We'll be releasing the full broadcast very shortly, which is about a 30-minute broadcast. Again, if you'd like to hear the segments, go to bit.ly slash AR Columbia ORG and stay tuned on our YouTube channel for the full broadcasts coming out very shortly. I'd also like to share with people that Ankar-Gate ORG and I recently had an op-ed published in the Orange County Register ORG. There's a link to this from the New Ideal ORG website on the subject of why ending campus protests actually protects free speech because of the fact that these occupiers are interfering with students and professors and their ability to freely enter their own campuses.You can read that if you go to bit.ly slash ending protests. Otherwise, if you're watching and you enjoyed this podcast, please be sure to like and to follow us on YouTube ORG, hit that subscribe button and the bell to get notifications when we go live or post new videos. Same thing on Facebook ORG. And if you have questions about anything that came up today or if you have new ideas for podcasts you'd like to see us do in the future, please send us an email at new idealat ironran.org. We read everything that comes in and try to respond to as much of it as we can. So once again, thank you very much, Harry, for sharing this with us today. I think our audience is going to find your perspective very valuable. Thank you for having me.

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