Suns Fire Frank Vogel, Mike Budenholzer Next Up? More Changes Coming?

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It's the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day.

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The Phoenix Suns have fired Frank Vogel after just one season as head coach on today's

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episode of Locked on Suns, why this was a logical first step toward fixing whatever

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might have screwed up this sun season,

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but certainly not a Band-Aid for everything going wrong with this team. Let's go.

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You are Locked-on Suns, your daily Phoenix Suns podcast, part of the Locked-on Podcast Network ORG,

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your team every day. And we're back.

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This is Locked-on Phoenix Suns WORK_OF_ART. We are part of the Locked On Podcast Network ORG. I'm your host, Brendan Clean, a credentialed media member covering the Suns for the past seven seasons, the host of the Just Basketball Show WORK_OF_ART, wherever you get your podcast. Thank you for making Lockdown Suns your first listen after Frank Vogel's PERSON dismissal. Two straight summers where the sons have fired a coach, giving us a lot to discuss.We are free and available everywhere, including YouTube ORG, so hit that follow or subscribe button wherever you're getting this show. Get a new episode in your feet every single Monday through Friday throughout the offseason and beyond. As we break down what should be an eventful summer here in the valley, be part of this community, be coming every day or get locked on to the Phoenix Suns ORG. All right, today's episode, guys, a lot to sift through as the Suns move on from Vogel PERSON withMike Budenholzer PERSON firmly in their sights, according to Adrian Orginowski and John Gamidoro PERSON. Today's episode is brought to you by PrizePix, the easiest, most exciting way to play daily fantasy sports. Go topricepix.com slash locked on NBA ORG. Use the code locked on NBA for a first deposit matchup to $100. When I think about why the Suns made this move, got rid of Vogel PERSON, there's a lot of answers, right? I'll start with the obvious. I'll start with the most embarrassing, maybe the final straw, the last domino.That athletic article that came out, right, That athletic article that came out, right, it illustrated the two primary things that I think have to be held against Vogel PERSON, if only because there's nobody else to hold them against. The locker room did not seem to be galvanized around him, to say the very least, right? And the offensive end of the floor never quite got to a point of the dominance that we would expect.And I would say it wasn't greater than the sum of its parts. It may have even been worse than the talent that they had on that side of the court, right? Even if you go after Christmas when Bradley Beale got back, they were the seventh offense in the NBA ORG. Is that good enough? Well, this move would signal maybe not. And of course, the athletic article indicating that for Kevin Duran in particular, it was not suiting him like he would prefer. So leadership was not quite there, and the offense was not quite there.Basketball-wise, this team did not do what a Frank Vogel PERSON team is typically done. They did not protect the rim at an elite level. They did not create turnovers at an elite level. Their transition defense was inconsistent. And they didn't have the toughness and force and physicality that have been a, no matter who he's coaching, have been there on Vogel teams. So those aspects of the Sons this year left a lotto be desired and they were things that you would expect to get from Vogel PERSON that you did not get. And they were things that you would expect to get from Vogel PERSON that you did not get. But here's why I don't fully put the blame of this season on Vogel PERSON, right? And I don't even put the blame of those things not coming together fully on the coach's plate, right? Vogel PERSON thought he was coaching a very different team than he ended up coaching.I go back to his introductory press conference. He said of DeAndre Aiton PERSON that the defensive scheme starts with him. He can be one of the best centers in the league, and he's shown that. I'm intent on really connecting with him and restoring him to an all-star level player. I have a scheme that I believe is the best in the league at tailoring those strengths into the group. Vogle even said of Cameron Payne PERSON that he will be in the mix as a potential starter. He said, we also want to see how the restof the roster shakes out, see if we add a point guard campaign will be in the mix. All of that will play out in camp. He said that back on June 29th. That was before they traded him to the San Antonio Spurs where he was eventually cut. Now, of course, the Aiton PERSON side of that's probably bigger than the pain side of that, but it speaks to the obvious holes that this son's roster had at center, especially backup center, and an archetype of a center in terms of an athletic finishing, rim-protecting, transition scoring, screen-setting option that Drew Eubanks PERSON never turned into,and a playmaking option, a point-of-attack defensive option, which Payne PERSON could have at least been part of helping out. At the same time, obviously, the same detriments and obstacles that got in the way of the sons beingwhat they wanted to be as a team that the players felt, those were there for the coach as well. Now, I'm not going to go into that. In-depth, injuries, to numerous players in most specifically Beal PERSON. The roster and the bench players that they tried to add last summer not panning out, all of that.Look, that's true for a lot of coaches. Things don't go as they're supposed to on paper. But that's there. They did not set him up to succeed. That's not an excuse. Very few coaches get every single thing that they want. You know, not everybody's Luke Walton with the Warriors ORG, for instance, where the talent is so great that it can mask what you are as a coach.But I think we can all agree this was far from an ideal situation for anybody involved. On top of the short runway with a wholly new roster and a new coaching staff and a relationship he had to form with Kevin Young PERSON and all those things, they also went up and changed the roster on him. Okay? So, this is not the job he necessarily signed up for. He was not necessarily set up to succeed, and the way that the Sun ORG season played out was not fully on Vogel PERSON's shoulders. That being said, given the significant challenges to changing what this roster looks like, it's not just the whole, oh, the coach is the easy guy to put blame on.It's really not even about blame. It's about what can you change. You can change the seventh, eighth, ninth man on this team. You can replace Kevin Young PERSON. I think the sons made a determination that changing the head coach position, bringing somebody in to replace Frank Vogel was the one of the biggest things that they could do at the top level to put themselves in a better position to win a championship next season. But let's go back to the losing the locker room side of this, right?losing the locker room side of this, right? We know that, based on the 36 unbothered tweet from Devin Booker and Kevin Durant last year, or from Devin Booker referring to himself and Kevin Durant PERSON, that the coachings, that the players probably had a say in Monty's dismissal last year. We assumed Kevin Young was Booker's preference at head coach last year, whereas Vogel was more of Ishpia PERSON's preference.Did that lead to where this all played out to? Is that another example of something where there was a fracturing of what this team wanted to be between ownership management coaching staff and players? Where Vogel PERSON had to come in and win over a group that he never won over? Or was there by and originally and something changed? Was there agreement on how to play what the team was going to look like what the on-court style was going to be that changed?on-court style was going to be, that changed. I asked that question because all of this will affect how successful this change can actually be, right? It may be that firing the coach, bringing somebody new in was the most impactful single decision that the Sons could make this off-season. But it's not going to work no matter who's there, unless there is an alignment more than there was this season across all those levels of the organization,and the roster and the mindset of the star players is pointing the same direction as whatever this next hedge coach will be. On that note, Mike Boodenholzer PERSON appears to be the front runner for the job. Does he make more sense? And what do the sons need in order to make this move count?Coming up next. First, today's show brought to you by prize picks who have come in and straight up fixed daily fantasy sports. Get in on the playoff action and went up to 100 times your money on prize picks as you in the world's best players take the game to a new level during basketball's postseason. 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With eBay ORG's guaranteed fit, your part is guaranteed to fit your ride every time or your money back. Because with eBay Motors ORG, you're burning rubber, not cash. With all the parts you need, the prices you want,it's easy to make your car, the MVP, and bring home huge wins. Keep your ride or die alive at eBaymotors.com. Eligible items only, exclusions apply. eBay guaranteed fit, only available to U.S. GPE customers. Keeping the show rolling here.Let's talk Bud. Let's talk Coach Bud. All right, because very quickly, Adrian Wardenowski and John Gimmedoro PERSON, so the local and the national, both pinpointed But Boodinholzer as a strong option here. I think Woj's very cryptic wording was that Mike Boodinholzer PERSON is expected to be a prominent part of the search or something like that. Gambo said there will be only two to three options. Budenholzer is the most likely and a decision will be quick as quick as soon as next week, according to Gambo PERSON. Okay?So the timeline and the Budenholzer mentions here, I would not be surprised if Mike Boodenholzer was the head coach of the Sons as soon as, you know, a week from today or something. As of right now, that seems like where we are headed. But I'll have some lingering questions to round out the show as far as are there others that could pop up and what other changes could be brewing. But what's interesting to me about Mike Boodenholzer, even if it's not him, the fact that his name came up first, the fact that as I told you guys, you know, this week, I expected the pause, the delay here on the part of Ishpia and the Sons ORG to come from the fact that they wanted to canvas the market. They wanted to say, if we're firing Vogel PERSON, what else are we getting? Who else are we getting? And so the fact that it took this entire week, basically, untilThursday afternoon, and that they did make the change, leads me to believe that they've probably been talking to Mike Boodhielzer PERSON, right? But again, what's interesting and kind of ironic about that to me is that some of Mike Boodenholzer's PERSON strengths or what he likes to do, especially on the defensive end of the court, are not that different from what Vogel PERSON likes to do, right? I mean, think about the Mike Budenholzer PERSON defense in particular.Drop big man in the pick and roll. Brooke Lopez PERSON won, I think he won a defensive player of the year. He was considered one of the best defensive players in the NBA ORG once he got to Milwaukee ORG, and he's at the foul line playing, in that drop coverage. And then they use their length and point of attack defense to basically just force opposing offenses into the types of shots that the Bucks ORG wanted to give them. You know, that's why Chris Paul had a great finals in 2021. And Devin Booker PERSON was able to be pretty effective and everything else. When they were reigning threes in those first two games of the finals in 2021, and Devin Booker was able to be pretty effective and everythingelse, when they were reigning threes in those first two games of the finals in 2021, and the Suns ORG won those games, right? Now, some of the things are different. You know, he's not as aggressive, right? So forcing turnovers and some of the way that we saw, especially the Sons used Nerkich PERSON in the playoffs, maybe with that extended out onto the perimeteras a big man type of coverage. Maybe there's going to be less of that. But at the base, you know, protecting the rim, cleaning up the paint, defending in transition, contesting threes, the basic principles are pretty similar. So where I think this has to be coming from, given that again, he seems to be the early frontrunner already, is a belief that Budenholzer PERSON's, I guess, you know, similar level of experience, right? You're not taking a step down to some kind of newcomer.So you have that experience still. You have the winning pedigree, the championship bona fides. But the offensive end of the court must be, must be the point. Must be the difference that Ishbia and maybe James Jones PERSON and potentially the players see here, right? A five-out offense where Brooke Lopez PERSON, the other development he added to his game inaddition to ratcheting up his defensive impact over time in his career was that he became a great three-point shooter and a high-volume three-point shooter, somebody who could shoot it not just in the corner, but out on the wing, out at the top of the arc, right? Buden-Hulzer PERSON is big on crashing the offensive glass. It's one of the things that he was, you know, a little bit ahead of the curve on as a head coach in the NBA, seeing the value of those second possessions and not getting too infatuated solely with the idea of we are going to, you know, shoot a bunch of threes, right? Not an elite every single season, offensive rebounding team, maybe somewhat inconsistent in terms of where they mighthave landed in all of that. But over time, seem to embrace that a little bit more. And I think you would hope with maybe a best player, a primary playmaker who's not a big man like the sons or like the Bucks had with Janus PERSON, he can get that even up into the higher levels. The question would remain, though. Is this offense, is this roster set up to put out onto the court the type of offense that Boudinholzer PERSON wants to run. More than what the Sons ORG just went through where there was that, again, that misalignmentand not setting the table for everything to fire on all cylinders. Coaching staff wants to do one thing or even assistant versus head coach want to do one thing, players want to do another thing, management sees a different kind of thing. We'll know that more in time. We don't fully know what this roster is. But if we're just looking at the starting five, which James Jones and Mettishb PERSON,both seem to agree, should stay the same. I actually have a little bit of optimism there. Because one, I think Budenholzer PERSON has been, it helps to have Yonis Ante Cumpur PERSON, right? But Boutenholzer PERSON has been, has emphasized playing quickly.So that's good. You know, so did Vogel PERSON. But I guess you would say Boodenholzer PERSON has a better track record of having that pan out with the spacing and the rotation and the personnel that he puts out on the court. And just the emphasis on, you know, early offense, not just turning defense into offense because his teams didn't force a ton of turnovers. That's one thing that, again, Boonholzer PERSON teams don't try to do.They want to contest and limit threes without fouling and without forcing turnovers. So they did that on offense without getting the easy looks from just getting steals and blocks. But more importantly than that, whether you're talking about Atlanta prior to the buck stop or even in Milwaukee ORG, Jeff Teague, Drew Holiday PERSON, those guys are not pure point guards. Those guys are not, you know, Chris Paul, Mike Conley, even Kyle Lowry, or any of the guys we think of as kind of John Morant for all, you know, we can say, or Darius Garland PERSON to pick younger dudes. No, Teague PERSON was a scoring guard.Garland PERSON to pick younger dudes. No, Teague PERSON was a scoring guard. Holiday PERSON is a, you know, kind of reckless offensive player at times, if we're being honest. But he was able to construct an egalitarian balanced offense where guys like Al Horford PERSON, Paul Millsap, Chris Middleton, Janice PERSON, were able to be part of the playmaking, the passing, the balance that the offense had.That sounds like what the Sons should be trying to do with pieces like Nerkich, Beal, Booker PERSON, how do you make a group without a pure primary playmaker, which even if the Sons get a point guard in the offseason, is not going to be the caliber of player, the caliber of point guard that is going to take the ball out of Bookerand Beale PERSON's hands to an extreme degree, how do you meld that into something that maximizes all of those players and makes them better than the sum of their parts? Budenholzer PERSON has shown you how with a variety of different setups and rosters, and I think that has to be the driving force between why he is being considered.Time will tell what that roster actually looks like. We're very early days. He's not even the head coach yet. But that tells us a lot about what the sons are looking for and why he might make sense. There could be more changes on the horizon.And there could be more candidates who pop up. What might all of that look like? Coming up next. First, today's show brought to you by Monopoly Go PRODUCT. All right, game on. We got to pause here to talk about Monopoly Go PRODUCT. I know what you're saying. Technical foul. We've talked about it plenty, but we are buzzing about Monopoly Go PRODUCT. There's so much good stuff. And it's collaborative.It's competitive. It gets your juices flowing. In Monopoly Go PRODUCT, you can team up with friends for time tournaments where you work together to build up each other's boards, winning together, unlocking prizes together, or you can, again, go right at them. 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questions to get to before we go. Who else could be considered? I think has to be number one, right? Who else could pop up here, John Gimidoro, reporting that there will probably be a grand total of two to three candidates, which again, we should be leaning Mike Boodenholzer PERSON, but they're not going to interview nobody else. And one of the things that happens when you're, yeah, okay,you're canvassing the league while Vogel PERSON's still in place. You've got to do that a little bit subtly. But obviously, once a position is open, the agents and the, you know, reps start to contact you. So I don't know. I'm not going to pretend. And we know that they need, they want, I would think, experience.You know, they had a chance last summer to hire Jordy Fernandez who just got the Nets job or Kevin Young PERSON himself. They opted toward, you know, it seems like Doc Rivers was frankly second on their list and Vogel PERSON ends up getting the job. So if they're leaning experience, there's not a lot of options out there, you know. Kenny Atkinson would be one name, but his experience is relatively limited, all things considered, and as a head coach, and we know that, you know,Kyrie and Katie may not have seen eye to eye with him, and he left the team before Duran PERSON ever debuted as a net. One name I would look at, though, is... One name I would look at is Chauncey Billups. It sounds as if they are sort of trying to force Billups PERSON out or get him to quit. I'm not sure. They fired his brother, who was on the coaching staff,and Sports Illustrated ORG and some local writers have reported recently that there's some smoke around the Billups PERSON situation as far as if he could leave. Now, I know what you're thinking. Mike Boodenholzer PERSON, much more accomplished, much more experience, much more of a winning pedigree as a head coach than Chauncey Billups. All I'm saying is that's a name that maybe isn't out there yet that could be, and he does have some of the ingredients that could be appealing.He's built a decent enough defense given that they are basically tanking. We know he had the respect of dame, and we know he was a candidate after leaving ESPN ORG as an analyst for jobs as an executive once upon a time. So that's a pretty solid candidate in a vacuum. But more than anything, the reason I bring Billups PERSON up isn't even so much that I know anything about his connection to this job, but more so to say, what if the players get involved?Because that's when I could see a person like Billups PERSON getting a leg up. Now that Woge and Gambo have put out there, that Bud is the frontrunner. What if Ishbia and Jones have not been in consistent communication with Durant and Booker and Beal PERSON. Or what if those guys are aware, but not fully on the same page and loving it? Or they maybe knew Vogel PERSON was out but didn't know who the replacement might be. And what if they're not big fans of the Bud concept?I think that's where things could get interesting in Billups PERSON being a former championship player, a longtime veteran in the NBA ORG, who plays point guard and has the cerebral defensive tenacity and playmaking and leadership qualities that you would want.What if that matters? What if that becomes a factor and somebody like him gets an advantage? Last but not least, other changes. Where else can you look? The roster is, of course, going to be open to adjustments, but the front office. And this comes from Mike, from Mike Boodnold, or from John Gambadoro PERSON locally here as well, which is that he said he expects Vogel to not be the only change we see in Phoenix this offseason, but that from all accounts, he could see front office adjustments as well. Not James Jones PERSON being fired. Again, James Jones has the quote in the press release announcing Vogel PERSON'sdeparture, which you do not do unless Ishpia PERSON has given him the green light that his job is safe. What I will remind everybody of, though, when it comes to Jones PERSON, is he was given a promotion during the time where Robert Sarver PERSON was on hiatus, suspension, whatever, and that promotion made him president of basketball operations and general manager of the team. That's nice. If you remember the conversation, even the little press conference that he did at that time,that was a strange situation. The way he talked about it was that it was sort of just a title thing to give him a little bit more responsibility during a time of uncertainty when Sarver PERSON was not around. Maybe that came with a little bit of arrays. Maybe not.But it kind of felt like a more of a formality. I could easily see Ishpia saying either James Jones PERSON is only our general manager and I'm going to put somebody in place that is a president above him and kind of demote Jones PERSON or say, okay, Jones, you're more of a senior strategy guy. I'm going to bring in a general manager or a senior vice president or a vice president or whatever to be more of the hands-on person day to day than we've had before.Far be it for me to guess who those types of people might be. I'm not, you know, some kind of insider here of the best scout and personnel guy in Houston GPE or something. But those people are out there. That's what I would expect we see. Gambo said not Isaiah Thomas PERSON. I think it would be a PR nightmare and a pretty dumb move given that IT hasn't been in the NBA as an executive for, I guess his nickname's not IT. It's Zeeke PERSON has not been around for more than a decade now. But somebody could easily fill that void and provide a new voice, a new perspective, some new blood and leadership in thatfront office, and put a little pressure on Jones PERSON, which if you're going to keep him, you got to manufacture some kind of urgency and adjustment of vision, given that at the end of the day, the main thing I would blame Jones for is a lot of those minimum signings he swung on last summer, he struck out on. So even if you think the Durant move wasn't fully on him or the Beal move and Ishby PERSON was kind of pushing for that stuff, you got to nail those moves on the margins. The best teams do it. Jones PERSON has not done it frequently enough. His draft history since Cam Johnson PERSON is abysmal.And if the Sons ORG are going to extend this window and have a chance to get closer, that's going to matter too. That's the other stuff in addition to the head coaching change that can change this summer beyond the big three staying put, beyond even maybe the starters, all five staying put, is those other guys. That'll wrap us up. More to come throughout the weekend into next weekas the coaching search continues on. Hit follow, subscribe so you don't miss an episode. And I will talk to you guys next time.

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