Interview: Rod Dixon (Rerelease 2019)

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Welcome to the weekly interview podcast for the weekly interview podcast for the inside running podcast ORG. Thank you for tuning in for another weekend. If you got a long run planned, boy, I've got a treat for you today. This is a re-released interview that we did back in May 2019. I say we, I pushed the button and released it. Crokes PERSON did absolutely nothing.Moose PERSON needs to take all the credit with this one. It was a two-part episode back in May with Rod Dixon PERSON, the New Zealand GPE champion runner. He got a bronze at the Olympics back in 1972 at Munich and also probably famously known for his win in the 1983 New York City Marathon. He's got some great stories. There's some, yeah, some absolute classics in here,which is probably no surprise why we are re-releasing this episode. Think about, like, I know I would re-l listen to it the other week and, um, yeah, probably didn't give Moose PERSON as much credit as he deserved back in, um, when he recorded this episode. But there's a few really good through lines here, like the Sir Edmund Hillary PERSON stuff, which has spoken about. That's really cool to hear how that comes up, uh, throughout the episode.The way that, um, Dixon PERSON just brings up stories about his brother and, yeah, it makes it sound like just a special relationship between his brother and himself. And they're just the humor that he can go from talking about, the terrorist attacks at the Olympics to then talking about, you know, winning his weight in beer a couple minutes later. So I know you're going to enjoy this one. It is, yeah, something that I think when you listen back to some of these old interviews

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and some of our listeners may not have been on that journey with us back in 2019 and listening to some of our content, but it really makes me proud to hear this kind of

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long-form chat with an absolute legend of our sport. And, yeah, once again, massive hats off to moose for the research. He did in putting this conversation together because it has aged like a fine wine. A massive thank you to people that listened and wrote in about the Jess Denton interview last week. Never really seen that many DMs come in about an interview before. So a massive thanks to Jess PERSON for her openness and, yeah, the detail she went into talking about her day you marathon experience and all those people thatwrote in. It was, yeah, it's really, we can't exceed the download numbers and just know how

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many people listen, but sometimes you don't really get much feedback coming back the other way.

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So I really appreciate all those people that contacted myself or Jess PERSON or the inside run a podcast page directly. We read all those messages and definitely appreciate that. I think it went to something crazy. Like it was the 22nd most listened to sport podcast in Australia going by iTunes ORG, which is nuch because you go through the list of all the, you know, probably top 50, top 70 and it's like ESPN, S-E-N, Fox Footy, you know, Rugby, Golf, AFL Football, Soccer ORG,that kind of stuff. So to see a little independently owned running podcast in that close to the top 20 is, yeah, massive thanks to the listeners out there for listening to the show because that's where it kind of pops up. Anyway, enjoy this chat with Dixon PERSON. I know you're going to love it.Let us know what you think. And thanks for tuning to the Inside Running ORG podcast. Rod Dixon, welcome to the Inside Running ORG podcast.

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Yeah, thank you.

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Thank you. It's good to be here. And, well, I'm good to be here in New Zealand GPE. I've only got a few more days before I head back to California. But it's just that fall weather and it's just fabulous and beautiful. And there's a nice fall days.The colors are amazing. So, yep, it's going to be a wonderful impression to leave or to have as I travel the world.

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And sounds like good running weather.

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Did you get some runs in there?

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I got some runs on.

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I just love running on the beach. I don't do a lot of road running anymore. I love the trails, but if I can go bare feet, which would be mainly along the beach on the golf course, around the recreation grounds. So I love doing that. But no, I haven't been doing much running lately, mainly mountain biking. I go out about four times a week.

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Average is two, two and a half, three hours sometimes. Yeah, beautiful. Before we get into it,

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most of our listeners will be aware of you, Rod. I know in Ballarat GPE, where I live,

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I own a running store there and there is a massive poster of you on the wall, standing with your arms in the air and poor Jeff Smith PERSON behind you on the ground. Oh, that'll be good.

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Oh, yeah, that was that magic moment. Yeah. I'm sure we'll have a chat about that. We will. Graham Crouch was from Ballarat GPE, wasn't he?

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Graham Crouch PERSON. Look, I'm not sure. I know Steve Montagetti, Tony Benson, or Shane Nancurvis PERSON.

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We had a lot of good runners come through. Crayam Crouch PERSON, yeah, no, this one might have been before me. Yeah, yeah. But no, the main question we get is that Robert D. Costella PERSON,

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and then I go, when they look up at you and point, and then I get to tell the story of your marathon, which hopefully I'll know more

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and in more detail after today but you're our first Olympic EVENT medalist on the show we're 80 episodes in so this is very exciting wow yeah and like we've had some runners with some range but nothing like like what you bring to the table. So I'm going to read some PBs out. And if you hear anything wrong, or you just call me out, call me out on it. Okay.

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800 meters, one minute 47.

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Oh, is that 46? I thought that might have been 46.

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Actually, you didn't get 400, 495.

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Oh, well, yeah, yeah, can't miss that one.

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I love, when I, I was always banging on 50s and 50 ones, and then finally I cracked the 50 second. And that, that was, that's a factor. That's a factor. Then you, you know, so you got that 400 under 50. Then the key was to get your 800 under two minutes.And then, you know, and then really the next one was the mile under four minutes and and as you tick those off and you you know you get inspired by setting a goal and then achieving them so it's there was all realistic goals and and I was able to

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achieve them well certainly was because you went well under all of them. The 800, we've mentioned, 1,500 metres, 3 minutes 33, 89.

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The mile, 3 minutes 53, 62.

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2 mile, 8 minutes 14. The 3,000 steeple chase, 8 minutes 29 seconds. 5,000 meters, 13, 1717 10,000 28 11 and a marathon in a hilly marathon in two hours

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eight minutes and 59 seconds okay and and the half marathon was two uh one hour two minutes and

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uh 12 well done yeah sorry I missed that yeah that's the range. And I'd love to chat later on about how you got to that range.

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But firstly, let's talk about how you got into running.

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Now, apparently you were pretty handy at the sack race back in the day. Yeah, a Sunday school picnic.

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And the egg and spoon.

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I've heard this story.

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This is what you were most stoked about. Wow, yeah, well, that's the egg and spoon. Yeah've heard this story. This is what you were most stoked about. Wow. Yeah, well, that's the Egan Spoon PRODUCT. Yeah, I was bloody good at that. I didn't put chewing gum on it or anything. It was a genuine balance, but I just seemed to have that.The other kids were all dropping them, and I just sprinted down, and they all came over to check that I hadn't glued it on, you know. No, the Hegan Spoon, the sack race, the three-legged race, I was pretty good at that with some of my mates. Yeah, it must be the strong core. Yeah, and the piggyback. I used to piggyback one of my mates and won that. So we ended up with about six or seven ribbons at the Sunday School ORG picnic.That was pretty cool.

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Yeah. And Edmund Hillary PERSON inspired you to reach greatness. Can you tell me the story of how you met Edmund Hillary PERSON?

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Yeah, he came to Tuhunui school, and that's in Nelson GPE, my hometown. And I was 10, so that was 19, I always say 1960. And so he came and a very special guest to our school. And of course, us kids are all out in the playing field, in the footy field. And then comes the car and pulls up and Seaman PERSON comes out. Whoa, we kids, we knew who he was.He was like, you know, he was like our hero.

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Yes.

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He was, the country's hero. You knew who he was. He was like, you know, he was like our hero. Yes. He was, the country's hero. You know, he was, and of course, we all gathered around him, and of course the media were there and took photographs, and then they, you know, did a synopsis of his talk to us, kids. And we were in the photograph, and so that was our fridge refrigerator door for a number of you know quite a while but he basically told us kids that Mount Everest LOC wasn't high enough foryour goals dreams and aspirations and so we we as kids all yet there's something outside Mount Everest LOC this thing greater that we can aim for. And, you know, nobody climbed, nobody landed on the moon by then, but we knew there was a man in the moon. So all that sort of,all those sort of things come together and swirl around and inspire you. And I think that was something that we thought was pretty good. I was still in Boy Scouts ORG then, so, you know, obviously climbing a tree or crossing a river. We always used to say, well, Sam and Hillary PERSON told us we could do this, so we had jumped in the river and, of course, get swept away.

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And is it something that you continually reminded yourself as you started to progress through the ranks?

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Yes, absolutely.

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And it was incredibly because as we went through the ranks? Yes, absolutely.

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And it was incredibly because as we went through school, it was, and, you know,

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because what Serroman was doing in Nepal were building hospitals and schools and helping the Nepalese NORP people, that was always in the newspaper about all the good things that

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he was doing. And of course, he went on to do amazing things like going the first man to the South Pole and all that sort of thing. So he was always an inspiration to us. And then of course he was on our $5 banknote. So that was pretty cool to have a $5 banknote with Sir and Hillary PERSON on it.So he was always very much part of our circle. Yeah.

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And when you were hearing him talk, and now that you look back on it, we always see that a strong successful culture tends to breed another successful culture from the next generation. Yes.

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At this, when you started running as a junior athlete, were you aware of the deep history of the success that New Zealand GPE runners had? Oh yes.

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Yes.

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I think, and I see we weren't allowed to join a running club until we were 12. And so that was, you know, we finished elementary school and then moving into middle school. And so that was 12 years old when you joined the running club. And it was known as the Nelson Amateur Athletic Harrier and Cycling Club ORG. So it was, and that was formed in 1896. So a lot of history.So we joined the run club. And, you know, I remember the first day, there was about three or four hundred just in my age group. These are kids who just love to do cross country. That was, we've done cross country in school. And to get that singlet, you know, the club singlet, we were pretty chuffed about that. So that's what got us in.And then, of course, from there, the history and the dynamic of the club really, it was like another family. We'd have the Harriers and the weekend. And you'd all get together and go run on a farm or on the beach or in the mountains or on cross country and on the golf course. Of course, some of the times we weren't allowed to run on the golf course, but we kind of outran the golfers.

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Now and again, they'd whack a ball at you, and we, of course, run back and pick it up and throw it in the ocean, so it didn't think that again.

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Does that culture still exist with the Harriers ORG there?

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Or is that changed?

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No, it's almost lost now.

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The Harrier Clubs ORG don't do it. A lot of the schools have picked up with cross-country.

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But no, the run club or the Harrier Clubs in the weekend don't.

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There is a lot more midweek, you know, running groups. They get together on a midweek and they have a run. They run at a club or they run at the beach. But a lot of people do their own thing. And, you know, the events now, there's pretty well an event every weekend, a fun run, a 5K, 10K, cross-country.

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And those events really have taken over from the Harriers ORG now.

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They have, haven't they?

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And especially when you have the park run element where it's a free event for 5,000 metres

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and it's every weekend.

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I know Australian NORP athletics is trying to reinvent itself almost.

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Yeah, I think that'd be better off

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just having an alliance with Park Run ORG.

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Park Runs ORG worldwide.

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I think, you know, you've just got to go with the development and what's, you know, when I worked with the city of Los Angeles and the marathon, you know, we reached out to all the clubs, made sure that we were very much part of what they were doing and supportive. And it was really based on community, getting together with the community of their people. And, you know, anybody who belonged to a running group always, you know, got newsletters from us. And we communicated with them.All those gave them, you get an early. We'll give you a good discount on their entry fees and then we're going to do these weekend runs where we get together with a particular running

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store and we would support that so it really was was just working with what the running community,

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where it was going and what they were wanting from the marathon and support. So I think that's what it was. And the United States GPE track and field really weren't involved in a lot of that because they just weren't able to mobilize as quick as some of the other people. Yeah.

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And, okay. When you were 18 years old, you watched or you listened to the Mexico City Olympic Games EVENT. Is that right?

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Yes. And that's when you decided that running was going to be your life. Well, I think it was at one of the defining moments. I think I was always fascinated, especially when, you know, so at 12 years old you go to middle school and then at, so you have two years of middle school, then you go to high school. And so that sort of middle school, high school, I started reading a lot more. school high school I started reading a lot more and I was fascinated by you know the books like you know Jack Gloveloc New Zealand's Jack Lovelot PERSON in 1936 Olympics I wasfascinated with the books on the 1948 Olympics EVENT and then of course you know in 1948 Harold Nelson who was one of our, he was actually at the 1948 Olympics EVENT and competed. So all those that had, I love those history books. There was a book, The Kings of Distance, and that was Alfred Schraib and Deerfoot PERSON and all those back in the 1800s.And I was fascinated. They weren't called runners. They were called pedestrians. Yeah. And you could see them, they were their long shorts right down to their knees and the long sleeve tops and they would stand there, you know, not crouched on the start,they would stand on the start and they would run between ropes. They were separated by ropes. So all that sort of thing fascinated me the history of the sport. I think that laid a nice pattern to how I matured into the sport. You know, I wasn't up until 17, 18. I could finish in the top five or 10 sometimes. I certainly wasn't the best runner in the club. Now and again, when we had races, we sometimes say, okay,the first shall be last, and so last shall be first. And we'd have these races where you'd reverse the grid, you know, and sometimes you get a win.

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Yeah, that was cool. So, but it was really wasn't, there wasn't anything driving me to try and be the best. I just, I just love the run club. I just love my friends and having fun and, you know, going to school and running. The teachers figured out that you couldn't keep young Rodney Dixon PERSON sitting for too long because he got easily bored.They'd send me off with a note to another teacher. And of course, they knew that all I did was go out the door and run around the school and drop the note off and run around back again. And that's what they knew to do for me.

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Yeah, you would have been the messenger in the army back in the day.

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Yeah, exactly.

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Now, your brother, John PERSON, he was inspiration for you to begin running more seriously, wasn't he?

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Yeah, I'd say, well, I'd say, I actually say that Sherman Hillary PERSON was my inspiration, my brother was my hero. Ah, yeah, okay. So, John, you know, John really, he was three years old, you see, and he would say, of course you can climb that tree, of course you can swim that river, or of course you can do this.And he, you know, and it was, and he, he said, I remember him saying to me way early, his favorite three words was learn by doing. so he said you know if you if you climb that tree learn how you climb the tree because you're going to have to climb down it so you need to learn what brand you're on and to get down um learn if i throw you in the river and you get swept away you you learn not to fight the current wait until it goes into a corner where it gets calmer and then you canswim across to the side so he he was like that and being that three years older when arthur lydia the great coach used to come around uh to our clubs and talk and coach the coaches john understood the principles and philosophy of training. And that was very good because he was able to adapt the Lididid system to how we were living in the South Island, in Nelson GPE. I would go to John and say, look, I'm fascinated the way Herb Elliott runs and trains and Percy Surradi PERSON. And so we would get the book on Percy Serradi PERSON and we would listen and,we'll learn from reading how, you know, running on the beach and doing lifting weights and eating trail mix and, you know, all those little things that Percy Serradi PERSON had. And then Franz Stample, of course, in Europe with Tabori PERSON and all those athletes so it was fascinating to read a lot about coaches and then to adapt their philosophy into how we were training and John PERSON was able to do that he He had a wonderful skill to do that.

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And this was obviously a very progressive time in the history of running and

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coaching running and running philosophy because you had Emil Zaddepec PERSON who was

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introducing sort of the high volume intervals and Liddiard PERSON with his long runs and his mileage and Surradi PERSON with his strength training. How would you describe John PERSON's philosophy? Was he predominantly a Liddiard PERSON type coach?

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Yeah, yeah, predominantly.

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And I'd say that's 60 to 70 percent.

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But I think also too, having, you know, he wasn't, okay, I'm going to say 60 percent influenced by Lilliad PERSON,

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but I'd say the principles might have been 40 percent, and John's adaptation was 20 percent,

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and then we would look at other ideas and other ways and say, what do you think about this training? And he would look at it and he goes, well, that's okay, but we don't, you know, we're not at altitude. Yeah. So that type of training doesn't really apply to us because we're not living at three or four thousand feet. We went to the mountains and ran, but, you know, New Zealand GPE didn't have a lot of plateaus at five or four thousand feet. We went to the mountains and ran, but New Zealand didn't have a lot of plateaus at five, six thousand feet.We had mountains, but you couldn't really train there. So we sort of started to work away from seeing not living at altitude as being a disadvantage. We just trained to our environment and made the best of what we could from that. And I think that worked well for me. And do you think that's why

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a lot of New Zealanders NORP have such great range? Is due to the Lididid influence in the country?

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Yes, I do think that. I think the the prince, you know, the Lididid in the country? Yes, I do think that. I think the, the princet, you know, the Lididate, as I keep saying, principles and philosophy, it's the backbone. It is the foundation. Now, how you build your pyramid or how you build your building or your, you know, but you've got to have that foundation. And that foundation is based onaerobic training and and so we knew to always lay that foundation and you're only as good so your upper levels were only as good as your foundation so if you shortcut on your conditioning and your aerobic training then you weren't able to develop your anaerobic training quite as good because the foundation wasn't there. So the foundation was very, very important to lay that down. And we did it.And of course, we made time for it. Of course, today, you know, with every year, you know, there's indoors, there's outdoors, there's European circuit, there's the World Championships, at the Olympics EVENT, there's Commonwealth GPE, there's the university going, there's a lot of the kids are not

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laying that foundation the same. They turn to be doing a lot more anaerobic work and

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that won't build strength. It won't build your core. So you've got to get back to your core.

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And were you ever, did you ever run the Way to Rua circuit?

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Yes.

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Did I say that right?

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Yeah, Waiterua GPE. Exactly. Yep.

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I did that when I went to Auckland GPE. I went and go up and stay with a couple of friends, and I went and did it. And I found it incredibly hard,

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but what I didn't like is that it was half of it was road and very hilly, and then the other half was running down the sidewalk, which was basically concrete, concrete sidewalks.

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And that really, you know, having run in Nelson

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and the forest and the trails and the mountains and on the farmland and forest trails off road, you know, you weren't going to put me on the tar seal and the concrete. I didn't like that at all.

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Yeah, in my head, it's built up to be this magical run through the mountains. It doesn't sound like that.

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No, advice. The Waiteroo Forest FAC was fabulous to run on, but you're still running on the road and you had to run on the side because there's traffic. Whereas we would sometimes go out here for two and a half hours and you wouldn't see a car. You'd just be running on old railway trails or hiking trails. In fact, you see, Nelson has three national parks all in the top of the South Island LOC. So we were running some of the famous Abel Tasman tracks on a Sunday,and we would run for nearly three hours and never see anybody.

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Yeah. For some people. Amazing. Yeah. That seems to. Amazing. Yeah.

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That seems to be a real trait of the best running cultures in the world.

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Like forests and long Sunday runs.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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I'm sure of that.

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And, you know, Deke with his group and Canberra there at the Stromlo Forest FAC, you know, I went and had a run there and I loved it. I loved their forest. Yes. And I mean, I went and had a run there, and I loved it. I loved the forest.

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Yes.

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And I could see why they all gathered there.

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And, of course, Deke PERSON was the catalyst for it all.

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Yeah, definitely. And it spreads around the country very quickly. Yeah. Yeah. Now, your easy runs, you go out for an aerobic jog, how do you, would you describe that sort of pace to someone?Was it conversational? Yes.

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How fast did you run? No, talk test.

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Talk test.

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Yeah. But I think a lot of the time, at least for the first hour, we would often run to the

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slowest member of the group so that they got themselves run aerobically that they got their

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down.

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And then it would be, you know, we would come to a fork in the track and the slower group would go left and the faster group would go right. Or, you know, sometimes we had two or three choices and we would split up into three groups and say, okay, we'll see you back at the park. Yeah. We're going on. We're all heading off up to trails here and that's going to be, this is going to be a two-and-a-half-hour run for us.And some of the others said, well, we're turning back. We've done half an hour. We're only running an hour today. The slower group, that would be the slower group and then the middle group where they would say well we're going to come with you for another half hour and then we're going to turn around so that was a good thing about our trail runs we had different groups but then once you got into that core groupthe 15 or so 10 to 15 of your guys, you know, John or one of the older guys would say, you know, come on you guys, this is not a race. So you tended to, you know, just push one another. And so we, as John PERSON would say, he'd come up and grab my ear and he says, no, you're not going. You come back here. You know, he'd pull me ear off.So he said, you know, it's not about today. It's about Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, next week. It's not today. So this is what you're going to do. Now and again, he would see, you know, where the course was and he knew what was going. And now and again, he'd let us go.And, of course, away we'd go. He's not yelling at me, so we'd give it a go and give each other a go. And, of course, he figured that out that this run today was to just let us go. Let us go wild. And because there's nothing important the following week or the following 10 days was not important.So he said, no, run them off their feet. And they'll be in the next week just doing light runs, beach runs. And then we're getting into the track. We're getting into the hills. And that's when Will PERSON could tell them again. So, yeah, that was a very strong component of the club that they all, all the guys,all the senior guys tended to work together and look after us younger guys. And I'm saying, you know, between us 14-year-olds, 18, 19, you know. So that was a big influence for me running it with the groups like that.

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Yeah.

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I love it.

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And it would have been i mean how important

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for john to be there right in the mix seeing exactly how hard you're working yes yeah on your long

Speaker 21813.08s - 1819.04s

runs and your workouts exactly he was there and some you know as as certainly for 18 through

Speaker 31819.04s - 1826.64s

20 21 uh you know john would have i would have my workouts and he would do the first two with me then he'd drop out for two

Speaker 11826.64s - 1900.56s

and watch me and time me and then he'd come in for the next two and then he'd come in the last two and see he would be able to then say right well you tuck in behind me and he would set the pace and on those last two which tend to be or the last three which tend to be the ones where you kind of struggle a bit because you want to maintain the balance. But John PERSON made sure that I didn't overtrain those last three and that I ran solidly, but I didn't, you know, I wasn't full effort.And if he said you run three-quarter effort, some of those last ones were sometimes full effort when I was trying to make it look good for him. But you see, he saw all through that. Yeah. And he was able to balance it and to curtail it.And his big thing was, is, you know, I want you to train tomorrow, you know, tomorrow the next day and the next day. So what we're doing today is based on the last two days then what we do today is then relative to the next three days so he always had the three three three five day cycle you know the five day cycle yeah and he he helped you through a few

Speaker 31900.56s - 1908.14s

races as well yeah yeah and we did you feel like you're a bit of a team out there during those initial, like when

Speaker 11908.14s - 1909.5s

you used to run with him on the track?

Speaker 21910.2s - 1910.76s

Yeah, isn't that?

Speaker 31910.76s - 1913.88s

It was always brother, my brother.

Speaker 11914.42s - 1915.94s

I never saw it as a bit of team.

Speaker 31916.06s - 1916.96s

Yeah, okay, yeah.

Speaker 11917.34s - 1919.44s

So it was my bro, you know.

Speaker 21920.82s - 1921.44s

Yeah, it's funny.

Speaker 11922s - 1925.26s

Two big New Zealanders now, the Roberts and Twins.

Speaker 21925.6s - 1927.98s

I'm sure they would have had a similar effect back in the day.

Speaker 01929.2s - 1930.8s

We'll talk about them a little later.

Speaker 11932.16s - 1939.56s

Now, the life of a professional athlete, Rod, you traveled a lot with Dick Quacks and John Walker PERSON.

Speaker 31940.3s - 1942.5s

Were they your main travelling partners?

Speaker 21943.4s - 1944.44s

Yes, yeah.

Speaker 11945.26s - 1951.6s

So that really, I mean, I made the first, my first national team was 1971, cross country.

Speaker 21952.82s - 1961.7s

And so, in fact, I finished 10th in the world cross country that year, which was, I mean, I think a bit of a fright to a lot of people.

Speaker 11962.5s - 1971.82s

I don't think they expected me to be that far up. Just, you know, first trip away. Just not even, I hadn't even turned 21.

Speaker 31972.12s - 1972.36s

Yeah.

Speaker 11972.74s - 2022.58s

And then, of course, came back. And the goal, you know, I remember John PERSON saying to me, because, you know, they said, well, you know, Dickson, young Dixon PERSON, you know, the Olympics the next year, he could very well be going to the Olympics EVENT. And so I think, you know, when I came back and we talked, and I talked and he said, well, you know, why don't we look at the New Zealandcross-country? Why don't we look at the Olympic trials? Why don't we look at the Olympic qualification times? Now you still haven't broken four minutes for a mile, so that's got to be in there. So there was quite a few things that we actually laid out, and we put them in sequence so that we knew that we were working towards a goal.

Speaker 32022.58s - 2028.08s

And so the Olympic trials EVENT really were the goal.

Speaker 12028.94s - 2118.72s

And then we had to have all these intermediate goals, which we're going to lead us. You know, like Sirman Hillary PERSON climbing average. He didn't look at the top. He said, well, base one, camp one, camp two, camp three, camp four. You know, you had to have, well, base camp, blah, blah, blah.So we had to have all these goals where we said, right, well, we're going to be training and preparing for this goal. Then if we reach that, when we reach that, we're going to figure out where, how far off our goal? Did we reach our goal? Were we short of our goal?What do we need to do? And the good thing about it is that we set realistic our goal? What do we need to do? And the good thing about it is that we set realistic goals and each time we came to that plateau, we achieved what we had set for ourselves. And so we were able to go to the next level. And the next level, when I remember a couple of times, I looked at John PERSON and I said, you know, we've got about four ticks already here night. And he said, well, you know, I've got about four ticks already, and I, and he said, well,you know, I didn't think we'd have four. I thought we'd have a couple, but we didn't think maybe three would be good, but we've actually got four. So those are the sort of things that we were able to discuss and as brothers, not as coach athlete, as brothers. And so there was a little bit more, how would we say it a spirit between the two of us a verypowerful connection between us because of that brother the brothers yeah did did John PERSON go on

Speaker 22118.72s - 2125.14s

and become a like a successful coach outside of yourself. Did he have other athletes?

Speaker 12125.68s - 2127.08s

You did have other athletes.

Speaker 22127.08s - 2133.8s

He coached an American girl to the 1988 Olympic marathon.

Speaker 12134.28s - 2138.72s

So she finished second in the USA GPE Olympic trials and went to the Olympics

Speaker 22138.72s - 2140.5s

and was the first American NORP home.

Speaker 12140.9s - 2202.42s

Her name was Nancy Dietz PERSON. So he coached her, really. I mean, I introduced them because I saw that Nancy PERSON had tremendous talent and she wanted me to coach her. And I said, no, because that's not, you know, I think it's more appropriate that my brother is your coach. I mean, I don't mind being part of it all. And but no, so, and then there was a number of young kids in this country who becamenational champions and but you see the thing is Julian PERSON that we didn't have a coach's structure in New Zealand and Athletics New Zealand ORG didn't recognize people like my brother and didn't understand the value that he potentially had for others. And so all the coaches kind of did their own thing. And when you went away on a trip, somebody who had peeled the oranges got to be the coach. It was unbelievable.I think Arthur Liddy PERSON had ran into this struggle too, didn't he?

Speaker 22202.9s - 2203.76s

Absolutely.

Speaker 12204.06s - 2245.28s

They never selected Arthur PERSON to be a coach because it was a thing that if you give service to your club or your centre, you often got to be a manager or a coach or something. And the coaches that came away from us had no idea, absolutely no idea how to work with the athletes. Some of them were very good communicators and they became good friends, but they never interfered with the training or the schedules.And I think that some of us used to talk that that was a pity that such and such couldn't understand the principles of coaching,

Speaker 32245.56s - 2247.44s

and they would have been a lot better.

Speaker 12248s - 2266.54s

We would have been a lot better served by them being a little bit more. But you see, there was no coaching certifications. There was no coaches' certificates or clinics. And so we really, all the athletes kind of did their own thing. Yeah.

Speaker 22266.64s - 2270.62s

And we were left alone to do our own thing and that was why we were successful.

Speaker 12271.38s - 2277.6s

So when you were traveling with Dick and John Walker PERSON, would you work out together in Europe

Speaker 22277.6s - 2280.34s

or would you do your own training and they would do their own training?

Speaker 32280.9s - 2284.08s

Well, we would, yeah, we would talk about what we had to do today.

Speaker 22286.58s - 2292.98s

You know, we knew each other's strengths and weaknesses, and so I didn't want, I didn't, I didn't train with

Speaker 12292.98s - 2405.12s

John when he said he was going to do 10, 400s at 52 seconds. That was not going to happen to me. But I would say to John, well, why don't you do 15 at 57 with me? And he said, no, I don't want to do 15. Yeah, so we would, our long runs, our easy aerobic runs, John PERSON would often come with me, but he would turn around and go back. He said, no, that's enough for me, running with you, Dixon PERSON.And I would do the same when I'd be on the track and he would do a time trial, 800 and 151. I'd say, nope nope it's not something I want to do today so you know so but now and again we were very very compatible when we had I said well look John PERSON I've got this and he said I've got this and we say okay well look I don't mind I don't mind going coming down a second but you've got to slow down a second. There's something like that. So we would compromise.But by and large, between races, it really was. It was a 45-minute, 50-minute easy run in the forest, or we both would do that aerobically. If we went to the track and he wanted to do 400s or 300s or 200s, he would do it. But if we did some 150 strideouts or 600 easy, I would do that with John PERSON. So we figured it out. Now, Quacksey was a little different because he was already starting to move to 5,000, 10,000.And some of his training just didn't suit me as a 1500 meter runner and John was still running 815 and but as we moved up we we tended to sort of get along really well we traveled brilliantly we roomed brilliantly but we just didn't have to compromise on our training. And the

Speaker 22405.12s - 2416.52s

bathtub beers, Rod PERSON, I hear about this bathtub beers a lot. Was this, was this your doing?The bathtub beers. Yeah. Where did this come from?

Speaker 12417.32s - 2502.06s

Well, that was, you see, we would all, and I mentioned Graham Krauss PERSON beforebecause Crouchy we came along and the guy could Ken Hall PERSON, yeah. Yeah, some great Aussies, Peter Fitzsimmons PERSON. He, you know, we'd all get together and we'd say, okay, now we've got a week here where we haven't got a race.So what we're going to do is we're going to give this guy a call in Umea GPE in Sweden and see if we can all go up there and he'd give us a week's accommodation. And of course, a lot of the sport hotels were often agricultural colleges, which would be summer hotels. So we would be put in there and we'd have breakfast, lunch and dinner, and accommodation, you know, hostile accommodation. And that was all we wanted as long as we were near forest trails or lakes or where we could train.And then we'd say, okay, guys, so now we've got to have a bit of pocket money. And so what we'd do is say, right, well, whoever wins the race here we want you to so whoever wins this race has got to fill the bathtub with beer and of course so some of us would saywell you know why don't we let Walker win because he's getting paid

Speaker 32502.06s - 2504.1s

more than we are then he can fill the

Speaker 12504.1s - 2519.84s

bathtub with beer and John PERSON would you know he would go out there in race win because he's getting paid more than we are then he can fill the bathtub with beer and John would you know he'd go out there and racing because he figured out after two or three times he said you guys are setting me up and is this where the the famous quote all I want to do is

Speaker 22519.84s - 2527.54s

drink beer and train like an animal is this where that came from I think probably that might have been back in the old club days.

Speaker 12528.5s - 2560.76s

Do you remember saying that? Yeah, I do. I mean, I wish to have been remembered for something a bit better. No, it was, you know, that was, I think I'm not sure where it actually, who picked up on it. It might have been in England where somebody, you know, John PERSON said that, you know, he wants to go on to the Olympics and he wants to go gold medal and they said, well, you know, Dixon PERSON, youhaven't said much on this. I said, oh, all I want to do is try like an animal and drink lots of beer.

Speaker 22560.76s - 2563.56s

I got landed with that one.

Speaker 12563.56s - 2568.5s

You know, there's a lot of people who sympathize with that quote or who really, I mean, I

Speaker 22568.5s - 2575.78s

probably drink a little bit too much beer, but I love the idea of training like an animal and they're the two things that I love doing.

Speaker 02575.78s - 2581.92s

So it speaks to me and, and I mean, I'll be honest, Rod, that's how I first knew you.

Speaker 32582.38s - 2597.36s

And then once we, once I got to know a little bit more about your story, I thought, I need to have this guy in the store on a big wall. And so you're kind of getting a little bit,

Speaker 22597.9s - 2609.38s

like you're telling the story of day-to-day life of an athlete on the European NORP circuit. Was it all, was it pretty, was it fun or was it hard work?

Speaker 12610.72s - 2612.86s

Well, it was a mix.

Speaker 22613.02s - 2623.34s

It was a mix of, you know, you definitely had to, you know, our thing in that day, because there was no professionalism, you know, the word amateur was still very much

Speaker 12623.34s - 2724.34s

reminded, we were reminded every day. professionalism, you know, the word amateur was still very much reminded. We were reminded every day. You're the New Zealand Amateur Athletic Association ORG. The British Board was the British Amateur Athletic Association ORG. And they were very, very firm on any payments or any funding which didn't meet within those amateur rules. Forget the people who are running the show were all multimillionaires,but they had to, so it was very difficult. So really what it came down to is we couldn't really say, okay, these are the main races I'm going to run this season in Europe LOC. We have to, you're as only as good as your last race. So if you want to, so here we are in, say, in Denmark GPE. Now, if you want to go and run in Oslo, you've got to be, you've got to win here in Denmark GPE.And if you win in Denmark, you'll get an air ticket to Oslo GPE and you'll get, so you get accommodation meals. And you're probably now, because you won that race, we'll maybe give you $250. Now, if you come to Oslo GPE and win, we'll give you the same amount of game. But if you don't win in Oslo GPE and you want to go on to stock home, then you'll be catching the bus. So what it really meant is that you were only as good as your last race. So you had to try and be in the top three every time you raced.

Speaker 32725.22s - 2725.32s

Yeah. Sometimes going out after a every time you raced. Yeah.

Speaker 12725.7s - 2751.3s

Sometimes going out after a race time or to get the fastest time for the was going to impact on your next performance. So you'd run in Oslo on the Saturday, but you're running in Stockholm on the Wednesday, and you weren't able to go out and run close to a world record and expect then to travel to Stockholm and be ready to run well at Stockholm GPE. You needed really 10 days recovery.

Speaker 32751.54s - 2751.66s

Yeah.

Speaker 12752.12s - 2768.88s

We couldn't afford 10 days off because you had to pay for your meals and your travel. So you really had to balance it all out and be consistent. And in those early days for us, you know, we were running 30 races in the season. Yeah.

Speaker 32769.52s - 2769.84s

I am.

Speaker 12770.4s - 2777.5s

And some of those races, of course, the race director said, well, you know, Dixon, we don't want you to run 1,500.

Speaker 32777.8s - 2779.22s

We want you to run 5,000.

Speaker 12779.34s - 2784.28s

I said, well, I will pay you twice as much to run 5,000.

Speaker 32784.28s - 2785.36s

And I said, well, I'd rather run 1,500 because I've to run 5,000 and I said, well,

Speaker 12785.68s - 2800.96s

I'd rather run 1,500 because I've got a 5,000 at the end of the week in Finland GPE. And, you know, so you're just really, you know,you were the negotiator, the runner, the trainer, the coach, the banker, you were everybody.

Speaker 22801.28s - 2806.2s

Yeah. Figure it all out. And you're just on the phone to meet directors. Is this how you're communicating?

Speaker 12807.08s - 2811.64s

Yeah, well, a lot of the meet directors would be at the events. Okay.

Speaker 22812.1s - 2818.38s

And so a lot of them would come, you know, see, I would always open my season with the British championships.

Speaker 12819.4s - 2828.88s

And because the Brits NORP didn't pay you, but they would give you air tickets. So you figured out, okay, we'll get the air tickets out of the Brits NORP and run there.

Speaker 02829.36s - 2851.68s

And then a lot of the European and Scandinavian race directors would come to the British champs to identify who they wanted for their races. Yes. So if you ran well on the British Champs EVENT, you had a number of people coming up to you and talking to you. Okay. And that, you know, that began it.And as you say, phone call. Everything was based on phone calls.

Speaker 12852.78s - 2871.96s

We didn't have facts in those days. Sometimes you could go to a hotel and get their tallix to send a message, but most of it was by phone. Yes. And we had to go into a phone box. Then you had to phone somebody at a phone in their house. So, yeah, there was a lot of work between, I can tell you.

Speaker 32872.28s - 2872.48s

Yeah.

Speaker 22874.3s - 2887.42s

Let's talk about Munich Olympics EVENT. This was, I mean, you won a bronze medal in the 1500 metres. Did you consider yourself a chance of medal over medal going into the championships?

Speaker 12888.22s - 2948.24s

No, no. I think, you know, as I say, before in 1971, when I came back from the World Cross Country EVENT, we ticked that off and we took off a couple of other things. And as weworked towards you know, and I think as soon as I broke the four minute mile when that was in January of 72 that was the first time I broke the four minutes and John said he said you know you've got to start thinking about the Olympics EVENT and he said in what event do you think and he said you know it kind of looked you, you ran well in world cross country, probably the 5,000 meters. And I said, no, John, I want to run the 1,500.And he looked at me and he says, you want to be a miler, don't you? And I said, yeah, I want to be a mile. I want to follow in Jack Lovelock and Peter Snell and John Davies and Helberg PERSON. I want to be in Herb Elliott PERSON. You know, Herb Elliott PERSON. You know, Herb Elliott was a big hero of mine in 1960 for sure.

Speaker 32948.38s - 2948.54s

Yep.

Speaker 12949.54s - 3085.78s

From the 60 Olympics EVENT. So I want to be like these people. And he said, he said, well, let's do it. And so, and it was like, oh, you're not going to try and talk me out of it? He said, no, he said, you've made a commitment. He said, I'll just tell you what you've got to do.And if you complain, I'll remind you it was your choice. Yeah, good of him to point that out. Yeah. Yeah. So, and of course, and then, you know, once I'd, he said, well, first of all, let's get this run in Wellington GPE, and that was going to be the mile. And I went over there, and some of the runners who I was running against towards the Olympics EVENT,Tony Polehill, of course, had won the British Championships the year before. And so he had qualified, and so he didn't turn up for that run. But Dick Taylor and Kevin Ross PERSON and a couple of others we all ran and of course I won it and broke the four minute mile and that's and John PERSON was there my brother was there and he he said well we've got to make this announcement because the media wanted to know well what's going to happen now you know Dixon PERSON's beaten all the other contendershe's broken the four minute mile he's got to be now? Dixon's beaten all the other contenders. He's broken the four-minute mile. He's got to be thinking about the Olympics EVENT. And they said, well, what event are you going to do? And I said the 1500. Whoa, you had all these people said, no, he shouldn't be running that. He should be running the cross-country.I mean, he should be running the 5,000. Or he should be running steeplechase, maybe a steeplechase. And so John PERSON and I had to weather a bit of criticism because i i john said that's our goal and they criticized him and said well you know the coach has he been an influence or has he allowed the the athlete to an influence? And so we just weathered the storm. The good thing with Nelson GPE, of course, we just came back to Nelson and laid low andcarried on training. And we weathered the storm and then, of course, I went out and won the Olympic EVENT trials and broke the qualifying, the Olympic EVENT qualifying time. And so, you know, the rest, you know, suddenly people said, well, they actually know what they're doing.

Speaker 23086.02s - 3088.68s

Yeah, yeah, he's a player. Yeah.

Speaker 13089.82s - 3090.2s

Yeah.

Speaker 33090.4s - 3097.48s

In Munich GPE, with the hostage situation and the act of terrorism,

Speaker 23097.48s - 3099.98s

was that before or after your race?

Speaker 13100.22s - 3157.24s

That was day before, day before the heats. And we, New Zealand, we were right next to the Israelis NORP. In fact, my room with Dick Taylor and Terry Manors, we were the end room within about 50 metres of the Israeli NORP quarters. So we could see them and they would often walk past our front and we would up and talk to them and so we get to know some of them so of course we when we heard the pop-up of the of the the rifle fire well I weren't because they were muted and we heard but we heard it and I said what do you think of the the rifle fire? Well I weren't because they were muted.And we heard, but we heard it. And I said, what do you think that's going on over there? And they said, well, it's probably the pentathlet, athletes, testing their guns.

Speaker 23157.44s - 3158.28s

Oh, they're pistols, yeah.

Speaker 13160.22s - 3164.42s

And, you know, and then in the morning we had a bang, bang on our door,

Speaker 23167.4s - 3168.12s

and they said, you've got to get your passport and get out.

Speaker 33169.32s - 3169.84s

And we said, why?

Speaker 23172.46s - 3172.98s

He said, well, there's been a hostage situation.

Speaker 13179.84s - 3204.72s

And then Dick Taylor looked out and he said, oh, there's some guy on the Israeli NORP quarters with a balaclava and a gun. And we looked out and that was that image of the terrorist or the Black September with that AK-47 with the Balacarver PRODUCT on. And we saw him live. And we thought, holy hell. We didn't understand, of course, when we were evacuated. And then it all started to transpire. And it was so sad that our Olympic Games EVENT were so violated.

Speaker 33209.76s - 3217.04s

Yeah. that the our olympic games were so violated yeah um and of course you know there was the the uh the negotiation were going on they got them out of the village and then of course we heard

Speaker 13217.04s - 3226.7s

that they were blowing up at the airport and it was just sadness yeah see in the day, they put a hold on the games,

Speaker 33226.96s - 3233.1s

and Avery Brundage PERSON asked the committee whether the game should be cancelled.

Speaker 13233.84s - 3265.9s

And the Israelis NORP said, absolutely, you do not cancel the games. Those athletes, we are subject to this every day of our lives, potential terrorist threats against us. The athletes gave their lives for the Olympic Games EVENT and that must continue on to give them the honour that the games will continue and that we're not going to bow to terrorism.

Speaker 33273.06s - 3277.38s

In New Zealand GPE, I mean, not that we were consulted, but New Zealand were absolutely positive in their stance against us.

Speaker 13277.38s - 3290.94s

So we, and it was a funny sort of thing because I put a little red ribbon on my tracksuit when I warmed up. And that was my respect for those athletes.

Speaker 23291.68s - 3293.9s

And it must have affected you.

Speaker 33295.32s - 3297.54s

I mean, it affected everyone, obviously,

Speaker 13297.8s - 3302.8s

but were there still, was there a bit of a somber feeling around the village

Speaker 33302.8s - 3306.58s

and even throughout the stadium for the rest of the Olympics EVENT?

Speaker 13307.44s - 3357.04s

I think what it was was once we heard the Israelis NORP ask us to hold our heads high and honor the athletes then and be as you were for the spirit of the games, I think we all stood up and we said, we're going to make this the best games ever. We're going to turn this around and make it something to honor these athletes. So I think we weren't down. I think we were very inspired by the fact that we were going to put this behind us and go out there and do the best we can. And I think in a sense, you know, warming up and acknowledging, you know, that this was goingto be the best that I can be.

Speaker 23357.32s - 3380.38s

Yes, yes. That all makes sense. You, oh, well, I'm reading Marty LaCurey's PERSON book at the moment. And he mentions that going into the 76 Olympics, he was certain that you were going to win the 5,000 meters. He was quite certain of it. Were you as confident as he was going into that Olympic Games EVENT?

Speaker 13381.52s - 3451.44s

Well, I think, well, I'll say yes, because that's what it was all about. That was the goal. That was the, I'd ranked number one in the world in 75 and I'd run, a race against Marty PERSON a few times and I know that he, you know, he couldn't, he couldn't get the measure of me. In 73, 74, we ran quite a few 15-100s, and we were very, very closely matched. But as soon as I started running two miles, and I just missed the world record for two miles on three occasions,and then I ran against the best in the 5,000 and beat them, and one of them I ran away from the field. Another one I sat and out kicked and I, I, I, I, I ran away from the field. Another one, I sat and out kicked them all. And then another race, I ran, I did a Helberg with two laps to go. I sprinted as hard as I could. And, and, you know, so these guys were going, shit, we don't have, we, you know,this guy can run from anywhere. Yeah. He doesn't have a pattern. And so I think, and that was the idea was to give them all a bit of a shock and say, you may as well just lie down and let me win.

Speaker 23451.44s - 3458.72s

Yeah. And it obviously didn't quite play out like that. You found yourself in a bit of trouble

Speaker 13458.72s - 3538.54s

with 200 out. Yeah. Yeah. And I would have been a lot happier having the Africans NORP in the race because they would have ensured that the pace was more front running than European NORP, which tend to be sit and sprint. Although, you know, I was still the fastest in the field. I remember talking to my brother about two days before and he said, I want you in the lead at 300 to go and you run.You don't try and out sprint these guys. At 300 meters, I want you to be in control and you go to the front and as they challenge you, you just hold them off and run them wide, run them wide. And of course, with 300 meters to go, I'm thinking, I've got this. And with 200 meters to go, I think I'm still, I'm still right where I should be. And then all of a sudden, it all held that loose.Quacks went past, Hilderun went past, Varen PERSON was still on the inside lane, holding everybody off. And I panicked and I sprinted. And I ran in lane three to try and run them all down. But you see, as you look at lane three and look at lane one, you're running about six or seven more meters. Yeah.

Speaker 33538.98s - 3542.54s

And that's, you know, and I lost the race by three meters,

Speaker 13542.7s - 3547.76s

really effectively because, you know, less than a second separated us.

Speaker 23548.5s - 3560s

Were you surprised that Lassie Wierens' comeback for that Olympics EVENT from being in relative obscurity for the previous three years since the 72 Olympics?

Speaker 13561.48s - 3575.12s

I knew what was going on. I knew what was going on with the Finns NORP, and I knew what was going on with some knew what was going on with the Finns and I knew what was going on with some of the Scandinavians and of course the Euroists NORP, some of the Eastern Bloc LOC countriesand we knew what was going on with the performance enhancer

Speaker 33575.12s - 3577.72s

and so

Speaker 13577.72s - 3589.08s

but I thought to myself you know I've raced him enough I know how to race therein and you know whatever he does he's not going to beat me. But by hell, he'd beat us.

Speaker 33589.32s - 3589.48s

Yeah.

Speaker 13589.98s - 3595.14s

Is it, was it difficult to sit in a call room with those guys beforehand,

Speaker 23595.38s - 3600.4s

knowing that they were doing something that wasn't morally right at the time?

Speaker 13600.78s - 3606.16s

Yeah, it was. All I wanted was a level playing field. I don't mind, I never had a

Speaker 33606.16s - 3611.2s

problem with running against anybody. I never, I wanted to run against the best in the world,

Speaker 13611.3s - 3616.88s

but don't tell, don't tell me you have an advantage that I don't have an opportunity to.

Speaker 33617.68s - 3635.4s

And my thing, of course, I would have, if I'd been given the option, I probably still wouldn't have done it because, you know, when you grow up in a family and your mother says, all you've got to remember, you know, you don't have to remember anything else but to tell the truth.

Speaker 13636.46s - 3657.76s

And, of course, if she ever asked me to tell the truth, I would tell her the truth. It's got me into trouble. Of course I had. But, you know, I never, you know, I always thought, if my parents ever asked me, did you do this, this and this, and I said no, and I knew I was lying to, that would be the end of it.

Speaker 33657.76s - 3663.84s

Yeah. I know, because they, she'd figure it out. She'd know. So I had this moral,

Speaker 13663.84s - 3685.02s

family, honesty, truth, so I couldn't do anything like that. I, I, I, I, I, I So I had this moral family, honesty, truth, so I couldn't do anything like that. I accepted the consequence of any disappointmentor if I wasn't fast enough this day it wasn't because I didn't do my best. I did my best. That was all, yeah. It's kind of that. Interesting.

Speaker 23685.92s - 3697.28s

And that fourth place, 5,000 metre Olympics EVENT, four years earlier, Steve Prefontein PERSON also got passed very late for a bronze medal in the flight.

Speaker 33697.38s - 3698.92s

Did you have a chat with Prey PERSON about?

Speaker 13699.12s - 3699.82s

Oh, yeah.

Speaker 33699.82s - 3705.26s

Yeah, we, we ran a two mile after the Olympics in London.

Speaker 13706.46s - 3732.66s

And I, he, because he stepped down from 5,000 meters, I stepped up from 1,500. And it was, I ran a British and Commonwealth GPE record. I ran a New Zealand GPE record. He won the, he ran an American NORP record. So we ran something like 815 or 816, which was the world's fastest at that time, the world leader.

Speaker 03733.1s - 3751.32s

And so it was a great race. But, of course, he came over to me after and said, well, actually he said bloody Kiwi NORP. And I said, what's your problem? And he said, well, and I said what's your problem and he said well you just sat on me and I said well what did you want me to do you were the perfect

Speaker 13751.32s - 3788.22s

pace leader and he said well you could have helped me and I said no we were here to win the race I wasn't here to you know and so he got quite upset with me but it wasn't until 73 when we ran another couple of races together and and one of them, I just wouldn't let him pass me.And him and I was sprinting down the back straight, and then he'd get behind me, and then he'd try me in the middle, and I just kept surging. And I think he realized that he's got to learn the European NORP way of racing and not expect it to be the way he's used to it.

Speaker 03788.4s - 3789.68s

So we were great mates.

Speaker 33789.8s - 3793.46s

We came great mates. He traveled it very extensively with the pre.

Speaker 13794.3s - 3806.2s

And we were going to, in 76, no, 75 he was going to come to New Zealand and train during the summer. And then we would go to Colorado GPE and train with him

Speaker 33806.2s - 3812.12s

during the US summer. Of course we lost him in May of 75.

Speaker 13812.72s - 3814.74s

Very sad. Very sad.

Speaker 23816.22s - 3833.52s

We'll move on to your marathon, which is a classic. Well, for me, it's a classic story of someone signing up to a marathon. I don't think anyone signed up to a marathon better than what you have. Can you tell us about the world cross-country race where you essentially locked in your marathon?

Speaker 13835.4s - 3835.84s

Interesting.

Speaker 23836.4s - 3841.6s

Well, of course, I moved to road racing because of the boycott in 1980.

Speaker 13843.08s - 3848s

And so I was, I mean I mean of course you know you

Speaker 23848s - 3858.28s

you had that the the memory of 76 and I I wanted 1980 to to to and so I trained for

Speaker 13858.28s - 3949.9s

four years trained for four years towards that and then and then you know then New Zealand boycotted and I go why you know what but but we you know every you know 34 countries probably asked the same question but whatever whatever so I moved I we I was actually in in the US GPE when the boycott was announced a walk in and the track team we were on our way to Moscow GPE when the boycott was announced. And I said, well, I'm not going to Europe LOC.There's no put, I don't, I don't have any value in going to the Olympics EVENT. If I'm going to Europe to race, if I can't go to the Olympics EVENT. And there's a road race, a 10K road race next week that Bill Rogers PERSON is running. And I met Bill in the 70s, 78, 79 in Europe LOC and I, you know, became friends. So I called Bill PERSON and he said, yeah, yeah, I can get you into the race. It was a road race in Philadelphia. And so I went to the race and I finished third. And it was myvery first road race. And I mean, I run club road races, but this was the finished third. And it was my very first road race. And I mean, I run club road races, but this was the first American NORP road race. And, of course, you know, there are 6,000 people in the race. I was fascinated by it. And, you know, there again, you know, you're finished first, second, third up on the podium. And you've got thousands of people think you're cool.Yeah, there's a Hollywood GPE element.

Speaker 33950.56s - 3968.22s

Yeah, I said, I can do this. So, I said to Arch Jelly and the guys who said, no, no, I'm not going to come with you to Europe LOC. I'm going to, I'm going to, there's another road race in a week's time, and I've been invited to stay here in Philadelphia GPE and train with some of the local runners.

Speaker 13969.12s - 4055.56s

And so I did. I stayed, and then I went and ran in a place where I'm missing. I know it was Adamstown, Adamstown, and it was a beerfest race, and it was a 10K, and I went out, and I ran it, and I took two minutes off the record, and it was a 10K. And I went out and I ran it and I took two minutes off the record. And it was held by American record holder Greg Fredericks PERSON. And people were saying, well, he must have cut the corners because you couldn't possibly take two minutes off the American NORP record holder.And they said, well, no, he followed the pace car the whole time. And we watched him. He didn't get a ride anywhere. He didn't take a shortcut. And of course, it became big news that this guy, that this guy, Dixon PERSON, had gone out and done this.But what I loved about it is the Adams Town FAC. It was a beer festival. So it was part of a big festival weekend. And there was about 6,000 runners, and it was really hilly great. And what they did is that the winner got his weight in beer. Excellent.And so the local guys came over, and they were introducing it. He goes, well, we just, you know, when you go up to get the prize, he said, why don't you wear this jacket? I go, okay, I wore a jacket. I put the jacket on, and it had buckshot in it. So it was like, it was like 20 pounds.

Speaker 34056.66s - 4064.4s

And I put the jacket on, and I went up, and he's the winner, and weighing it at 197 pounds.

Speaker 24068.16s - 4074.4s

That's perfect and so then he gets 20 gallons of beer and I said I know why you guys gave me that jacket because

Speaker 14074.4s - 4082.12s

you want to drink my beer classic gag by the fellas yeah all that stuff Julia PERSON and it's just

Speaker 24082.12s - 4087.94s

those are the magic moments of what I did and when I traveled and what we did.

Speaker 14087.94s - 4091.64s

And those are the moments that kept me.

Speaker 24091.94s - 4096.7s

And then, of course, I ended up living very close to Adamstown GPE.

Speaker 14096.88s - 4127.62s

I got an apartment in a place called Flying Hills GPE, which is very appropriate for a runner. In fact, my street address was 75 winged foot drive, Flying Hills GPE. And so I brought the family over and we set up shop and away I went. And I ran road races and set records. And it was just, yeah, it was exactly my journey. I just knew it was. And you won New York

Speaker 04127.62s - 4138.38s

City Marathon? Yeah, well, I went. I realized in 80, 81, 80 of course being the boycott and everything

Speaker 14138.38s - 4322.28s

else, it was going to be Olympic, yeah. So 81, I thought, no, if I'm going to be successful at road racing, I've got to run the world cross country. I've got to go home to New Zealand GPE and train and I want to win cross country because that has been traditional for me. It gives me the basis for everything I do. And so I ran the world cross country in 81 and I finished 10th. And I, you know, not that don't never complain but I did have terrible terrible stomach problems and I just was slightly off color but anyway I came back and ran brilliantly all that year and then 82 I said right well I'm going to do this again I'm going to go tothe world cross country and and by that stage I'd of course run but the world's fastest half marathon and I was winning I just winning just about everything everything from 10k to half marathon 10 miles seven miles eight miles 8 miles, 9 miles. And I was just pretty dominant. But I went to the world cross-country in 82. And of course, all the race directors from around the world were fast.You know, they all came to the world cross-country. We used to have these great lunches and all talk around and meet them all. And I remember Fred Leboe PERSON came over and he said, Rod Dixon, you have to run the New York City Marathon EVENT. And I said, I've been thinking about running a marathon, but I'm not going to do it this year.And, of course, he wouldn't leave me alone. And, of course, London and Chicago and San Francisco GPE race directors, war, why don't you come and run our race and da-da-da. And I said, no, I said, but I'll tell you what. I said to Fred LaBoh PERSON, I said, why don't you come and run our race and da-da-da. And I said, no, I said, but I'll tell you what.I said to Fred LaBarre PERSON, I said, I'll tell you what, Fred PERSON. If I run really well here at the World Cross Country EVENT,and this was in Rome GPE, if I run really well, I will consider running the marathon. And he said, well, what's run well you are? And I said, first, second or third. So he said, well, what's run well you are?And I said, first, second or third. So he said, oh, okay, okay. And so, of course, I'm coming down the end of the World Cross Country in third place and cross the finish line. And, you know, you go into the finish chutes and here's this guy standing in the middle of the shoot.And I go, what do you? And then I realize it's Fred PERSON. I said, Fred PERSON, you're not meant to be in here. And he said, I just want to make sure that you're going to come to New York GPE. I said, well, Fred PERSON, it's not going to be this year because I've got another 30 races, so it won't be this year,but I will come and watch the race and I will immerse myself in the marathon. Well, I must admit, Jeline, I went to New York GPE and watched an incredible race with Salazar and Gomez PERSON, duke in it out, and I said, that's me. I can see myself running a race like that. I would love to run a marathon like that.

Speaker 34322.28s - 4327.44s

And so as I left New York, I think I had to run in Central Park LOC in the morning

Speaker 14327.44s - 4355.24s

and I said to myself, yep, I'm going to run this thing. And then I think maybe about two or three weeks later, no, it was, I went back for the midnight race, New Year's Eve, midnight race in Central Park and Fred Le DeVoe PERSON came up, and he said, have you made the decision? And I said, it's three minutes past midnight of 1983, and Isaid, all right, Fred PERSON, I'll run New York this year.

Speaker 34355.88s - 4358.16s

And so that was 10 months, 11 months

Speaker 14358.16s - 4393.56s

away. So once I said to Fred I would, then I planned everything with my brother John PERSON, and he said, right, this is what you've got to do. You've got to immerse yourself in the most consistent training you've ever done in your life. He said, and you're not to be distracted. You're not to be, you know, you've got to befocused. And so I made that commitment and I did. it was incredible I just stayed absolutely focused and month by month week by week day by day it was all coming together it was like that big giant pyramid that

Speaker 24393.56s - 4405.22s

we'd all dreamed about way back that's how you build you build a pyramid from the base up so you didn't change too many specific things before the marathon.

Speaker 14408.78s - 4416.42s

It was just about getting a lot of the same sort of training in. Yeah, I think there was those long Sunday runs, which were just that little bit longer, a little bit slower.

Speaker 34417.5s - 4420.96s

But a lot, I mean, so there were those long runs.

Speaker 14421.52s - 4489.76s

And of course, I did that all in the Pennsylvania GPE countryside and in fact bordering on the Amish in the Amish country so there were fabulous roads and trails and very very little traffic I think some mornings all I saw were horse and carts that's all I saw and and some of the Amish it was interesting because there was a couple of times there I got really dehydrated. And I went into one of the farms and I said, can I drink some water out of the horse trough? And the guy looked at me and said, no, no, you don't drink out of the horse truck.He said, you come over to the house and I'll give you some water. And so, of course, I went over to the house and he just said, you wait there and I waited and he came out with a big jug of water and he gave me it. And I thanked him so because I really was, I was starting to struggle. I started to get quite dehydrated. And then, you know, from then on, he had a little box at his gate and they used to water there every Sunday morning for me when I went past.

Speaker 24489.92s - 4491.5s

Awesome. Yeah, awesome.

Speaker 14491.82s - 4511.3s

I wonder if they ever found out what you were doing. Yeah, yeah, I did. I went and gave them one of my medals, you know, just a finishes medal. I got a whole lot from New York Marathon EVENT. Oh, cool. And I went and gave them, and I said, thank you.That's to honor your support.

Speaker 24511.46s - 4512.1s

Yeah, pretty cool.

Speaker 14512.42s - 4518.18s

That's a great story, yeah. Now, any nutrition?

Speaker 24518.68s - 4522.4s

Did you use anything back then? Was it just, do you use any sugar on the run?

Speaker 14523.12s - 4529.76s

No, no. I knew, I was very, very aware of the dangers of sugar because it was a spiking effect.

Speaker 34530.84s - 4536.98s

So what I did is I would eat, I would get bananas and rice.

Speaker 14537.34s - 4561.64s

I get rice. And in fact, my mother did this for us anyway. But so what I would do in my long runs, I would get bananas and rice and mash them up and put them into little – and we didn't have zip locks in those days, but they were a corner of a plastic bag, and I'd put that in and then tie a knot and cut the top of the bag off. And I would carry those with me.

Speaker 24562.32s - 4563.86s

We were energy gels. Yeah.

Speaker 14564.12s - 4674.26s

And so I just would bite the end off and drink it. But what I learned after, which was even more effective, was Gerber ORG baby food. And this was bananas and rice, the same what I was making. But this was 27 grams of carbohydrate per serving. And so they would get the big jar and make those up. And then I would go on the Friday, on the Saturday,and drop them off at the 16 mile mark and a 23 mile mark. So that I didn't have to carry them. So I would have those and I knew the tree that I'd put them in the tree. So I'd come fast and do it and eat it and away I'd go. Because there was a lot of those earlier days that I came back. And I couldn't even turn the door handle on the house.I couldn't, I mean, I was hyperglycemic. I was running, staggering. You know, people saw me and they go, oh, you know, that guy, Dixon PERSON, you know, he runs funny, doesn't he? Because I was on my last legs. So I learned, you know, that guy Dixon PERSON, you know, he runs funny, doesn't he? Because I was on my last legs. So I learned, you know, once again, learn by doing.So once I figured out how to eat, because, you know, I mean, what we did figure out is that I had probably enough fuel for about two hours. And so, you know, and so you had to then say, right, when is your first sign? And the first sign was always around 15 mile and about 18 mile. I'd get, I'd get that bit of a hypoglycemia. And so I would always, as I said, I'd have, sometimes I would be able to get to 18 or right. So I would have my first gel at around 13 to 15 and then my other one around 23.

Speaker 24674.88s - 4678s

And you ran the perfect race?

Speaker 14678.78s - 4679.62s

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 24679.98s - 4684.12s

It's hard to describe it as anything but perfect.

Speaker 14685.34s - 4690.76s

Well, it was everything. I mean, because I, you know, we didn't have any telemetry.

Speaker 24690.82s - 4694.52s

I just wrote on my fingers, on my little finger, my five-mile split.

Speaker 14694.92s - 4716.88s

The next finger was my 10-mile split. I didn't put my 13-mile because I, you know, instinct of, you know, what you want to go through. And then so the next finger was 15 mile, the next finger was 18 mile, and then my thumb was 23. So I had the times that I wanted to hit, and that was based on two hours nine.

Speaker 34717.6s - 4718.2s

Wow.

Speaker 14719.28s - 4721.14s

And negative splits, negative splits, negative splits.

Speaker 24721.54s - 4728.94s

And you, um, lucky you didn't wipe your nose with that hand. Yeah. Yeah. splits, negative splits. And you, lucky you didn't wipe your nose with that hand.

Speaker 34729.44s - 4730.52s

Now,

Speaker 24730.72s - 4735.3s

Rod PERSON, tell me about the kids marathon program you're involved with.

Speaker 14735.44s - 4742.72s

Yeah, well, how it evolved is, you know, okay, so I'm going to run you back to 972.

Speaker 34742.76s - 4743.6s

Please, yes.

Speaker 14744.02s - 5000.74s

At the Olympics EVENT. And, of course, the media asked me, well, you know to 1972. Please, yes. At the Olympics. And, of course, the media asked me, well, you know, young Dixon, you were ranked 42nd in the world and you end up with the bronze medal. And who's your hero and who's your inspiration? And I said, well, my brother is my hero and Sue Edmund Hillary PERSON was my inspiration. And they said, well, have you ever told Sir Edmund PERSON? And I said, well, you know, you don't call the Queen and you don't call Sir Edmund PERSON.And they said, well, actually, Sir Edmund PERSON's name, Hillary, Edmund Percival, 282, Remiwerea Road, Auckland, New Zealand GPE, and the telephone number is in the phone book. He said, so you can call him any time you like. And, of course, I lived in the South Island LOC. So, of course, I was in early 73 for a track meet.And I was staying with my great friend, Graham Davy PERSON. And I looked in the phone book and there it was again. It was again. So I said, I'm not going to call. I'm going to go around. So I went up to Remiwera GPE, found the address, went down the driveway, knocked on the door.And Lady Hillary came to the door and she said, just a minute, young man, I told her I was, just a minute young man, I'm going to go and get Sue Berman PERSON. And Sermen PERSON was home. He was in New Zealand GPE. And he came to the door and he said, now what can I do for you, young man? And I said, well, Sermon, in 1960, you came to our schoolNelson, Tahuninoi GPE, yes, I remember that. And he said, and I said, and you inspired us. Oh, that's very fine. That's very fine young man. And I said, and then I thought, I better reach into my pocket because I had my medal with me. See, I had my, I reached in my pocket and I pulled out the medal and I said, well, just last year I went to the Olympics EVENT and I won this and I think you inspired me. And he looked at it and he said, this is fine young man.He said, well, you promise me one thing, young Rodney PERSON. And I said, yes, sir. And he said, will you inspire the next generation? And I said, oh, I'll do that for you, sir. And he gave the medal back to me and closed the door. And I stood there and I thought, what do I do now?As my mum said, she said, it'll come to you. Don't you worry about it. It will come to you. Well, in 1990, when I, you know, after the, you know, it's 83, after the New York Marathon EVENT, and I tried to run, I just missed out on qualifying for the 88 Olympics by 10 seconds. And then, of course, I started working with television, New Zealand GPE, and promoting the track series and doing that.And then my local school said that they were, the kids were going to have to be a bused to another school because of the funding of the school, they were going to close the school down. There wasn't enough students. And I said, well, the kids are going to get on a bus for an hour. They're going to hate the school. They can ride or walk to school and they run around bare feet all day.So I talked to a couple of people and I said, let's try and save the school. So we set up that there's going to be the Rod Dixon family 5K and 2K fun run. And so what I said was I'm going to get all the kids within the 30 mile radius of this school to get into training. I want them to start training because I want them to come to the Lee school to run their final mile of their marathon, just like Rod Dixon did in 1983. And so that's where it started. And I think the first year we raised about 10 or 12 grand, and I did it for 10 years, raised nearly 60, 70 grand for the school.We built another classroom in a swimming pool. And one of the girls, a young Maori girl, Olivia Haddon PERSON, we sent her to Australia GPE with a scholarship.

Speaker 35001.78s - 5003.7s

And she ran, she went to New Zealand GPE.

Speaker 15003.78s - 5072.1s

She actually ran the New Zealand Junior 400 metres that year, one year. So that's kind of how it started. And each year we would do that. And of course, each year the media would. And then, of course, television started coming and filming it. Because all the obelics would come and run.And the cricketers would come and run. And they were supporting it. And of course, television said, well, gee, what's going on up there at that little little school and they came up and I said well you know where did you get the idea from it and I said well I promised Sir Edmund Hillary PERSON I'd inspire the next generation and this is kind of it and of course then the next thing is the Lid Foundation ORG call me.And I know the Hillary Foundation ORG called me and said, we see that you're giving credit to Sermann PERSON for asking, you know, for doing this. And he said, but you never called him to tell him you're doing it. And I said, well, he never told me to tell him. He just said, do it. So, of course, they said, well, he would

Speaker 35072.1s - 5084s

like to have morning tea with you. He'd like to invite you for morning tea. So I went down to his home, the same house. He lived in the same house for 54 years. And a house that him and his

Speaker 15084s - 5141.04s

father had built after he climbed Mount Everest LOC. And so I went down and here I am sitting with a sermon and talking about things. And then about a year or so later I started my foundation to carry on this inspiring kids to get out there and do their marathon. And you've spread to the US GPE with this type of program? Yep. You're taking it and doing mainly, and two junior, mainly low-income schools, inner city schools.You know, it didn't take me long to figure out the schools that were most disadvantaged are the low-income schools. In a city, inner city, they didn't have playgrounds. They only had a couple of little basketball courts and blacktop and a big fence around them.

Speaker 35141.04s - 5149.54s

But I, and I could see that, you see, because the first three things that get cut with budgets are art, music and PE

Speaker 15149.54s - 5197.76s

And those are the very three things that kids need between the ages of five and twelve And all the research is there now I mean I've been doing this since 1990 really And but my main program in the US is 12 to 15 years and over half a million kids and but you see in 12 to 15 years I can you can now see the the culture is changed in schools schools now have art music and PE because they know that kids were born to move yes be creative and and the run club is something that is is is you can run it it doesn't cost anything get the kids to get up and run around the school yeah yeah well I

Speaker 25197.76s - 5210.42s

we often see it in this at the younger level but it seems like when we get higher in our school, in our schooling, we put less preference on that and more on the academic side of things. Yes, we do.

Speaker 15210.8s - 5250.96s

And yet, you know, we're born to move, and we know what happens with the brain when you sit for too long, it closes down, it shuts down. And, you know, and now, of course, some of the research that's been coming out of, like, Norway and Finland, and about how, you know, you know, and now, of course, some of the research that's been coming out of like Norway and Fimlin GPE and about how, you know, the schools are moving to more stand-up desks, more recess, more creativity, more, less of this sit down and shut up stuff. And it really is. It's having an effect and the kids are changingand the kids with the kids my mouth on are definitely changing yeah and

Speaker 25250.96s - 5253.56s

that that

Speaker 15253.56s - 5256.98s

piece on 7 sharp

Speaker 25256.98s - 5260.54s

I sent you that right you did yeah we will put that up in our notes

Speaker 35260.54s - 5262.4s

because that's a great that was a great video

Speaker 25262.4s - 5273.4s

and and that's that's you know see that school's five years and and leanne the principal and the school you know they they have the uh their school

Speaker 15273.4s - 5297.54s

fair festival and they raise all the money for all their activities for the year from that one event now yeah and the kids are so and so committed to it and they you know and most of those kids actually ran 5k for their last instead of a final mile 2k they ran 5k yeah good on them and just amazing kids

Speaker 25297.54s - 5305.18s

if there's we have a lot of over here they like to call themselves chalkies i've never heard that since recently teachers call themselves chalkies. I've never heard that since recently.

Speaker 15307.7s - 5308.34s

Teachers call themselves chalkies because of the chalkboard.

Speaker 05312.66s - 5313.06s

Now, how would they introduce this program?

Speaker 35317.28s - 5318.08s

Are you got plans to move this program to Australia GPE?

Speaker 15323.1s - 5483.12s

Well, interesting enough, Fran and Dave Kandi, who used to do the Canberra Marathon EVENT. Yes, yep. Fran PERSON had a program exactly the same, Kids Marathon. I came over with my two youngest, Hugo and Cecil PERSON. We came over and because up until then it was the Rod Dixon family 5K and 2K fun run, but it was, you know, kids would run the marathon and they came over and Fran and Dave had a kids program, a kids marathon program the same. So we got talking and then Fran came over to California when I did my first one in L.A.And she was very, you know, she said, this is exactly how we do it. And so it did start because they are now no longer with that marathon. But we've got, there's a couple of events going on with kids. But, yeah, once we get it into, you see, I'm back home in New Zealand GPE because finally our system here is saying, we're for this Dixon we may not have been five, 10 years ago but we are ready now because we see child obesity, we see diabetes,we see, you know, what's happening in the schools and our kids are just not getting enough P.E. It's, it's that they're not moving enough. Yes. So I said, well, so I've been going to the schools and wonderfully, I, you know, my funding just, you know, I put a lot of my personal funding into it. And I don't have, I don't have a Bill Gates giving me a couple of billion dollars like some of these foundations do.But I think I'm not far off from getting because it took a while to get it figured out but you also to recognize that when you're dealing with the school education system, it's very, very difficult to get through the door, you know, I mean the principal is the gatekeeper and he has very strict, or he or she have very strict guidelines and it's very hard to introduce something that doesn't fit those guidelines. But slowly but surely, the schools that I have done, and they have adopted it, are now starting to show improved results.And in fact, I've got about seven schools here in New Zealand GPE. And Malco ORG is very, very a great example because the teachers and the principals and the community are 100% behind it. But the principals say, you know, the kids that do the run club and they're involved in the kids marathon, on average, have higher test scores than the kids that don't. And then suddenly people take notice.

Speaker 25483.88s - 5486.36s

Yeah, it doesn't't it would be hard to

Speaker 15486.36s - 5492.38s

find a problem with it from unless you're a very legislative type or it sounds like that's what

Speaker 25492.38s - 5505.64s

what's what's holding it back because yeah you look at a lot of the college programs at the us and the running team is often the academic team as well. Yes. Yes. It goes to,

Speaker 15505.76s - 5513.26s

it's a lot of benefit to it. Yeah. Well, cross country in the US GPE in high school is the highest participation sport.

Speaker 35513.52s - 5519.14s

But it drops off dramatically in college because the academic takes away,

Speaker 15519.9s - 5603.06s

it will demand so much. And so, but the athletes, runners, who I meet in college, if they have participated in kids marathon or middle school or high school running, then they know after the halfway through the night or in the morning, they get out and go for their jog. They know that that's what holds them together.But they don't have time to be on the college team because they're not a scholarship athlete. So it's an interesting dynamic, but here in New Zealand GPE we're starting to see the colleges, and I've been dealing with them this trip more though because I can get I can get funding for a lot of these schools if the high school and college will take on a high school mentor leadership program where they go down to the elementaryschools and take the kids for PE and so that's my move rather than trying to get the elementary school go more to the high school, get the funding, and then the funding can be passed down to the elementary schools. And it's interesting because when I talk to some of these principals and assistant principals, it's like, wow, the light's on. You know, they've got it. They figured it out.

Speaker 35603.32s - 5603.52s

Yeah.

Speaker 25604.52s - 5606.12s

It's taken a long time.

Speaker 15606.32s - 5606.58s

Yeah.

Speaker 25606.94s - 5631.58s

Keep an eye on this for Australia GPE, listeners. Now, two more questions quickly. I won't hold you up too much a lot, Rod PERSON. You've been very generous here. New Zealand GPE athletics are the very strict or almost over-strict qualifying standards imposed by New Zealand GPE athletics holding the sport back a little?Yes, yes.

Speaker 15632.5s - 5635.9s

And that's a pretty common answer.

Speaker 35636.7s - 5639.38s

Do you have much to do with the Robertson PERSON twins?

Speaker 15639.5s - 5689.04s

Have you mentored them in any way or if they chatted to? No, just good friend, you know, Facebook friends. In fact, I was at the Millennium Center and Jake PERSON, Jake turned up. I was actually with Julian Matthews who was an Olympian NORP from 2016and the 1500 meters. I was with Julian PERSON and then the next thing is in March or into the track was Jake PERSON came over and of course you know we've been good friends communicated and of course it was great to see him and of course Julian PERSON said something like well you know he here it is you you held the new zealand marathon record for 30 something yearsand and now jakes held it and I said well because I don't recognize his time unless he does it on the New York Marathon Court.

Speaker 35690.82s - 5692.46s

So, Jake PERSON's sort of laughing, right?

Speaker 15692.46s - 5694.18s

And he said, all right, I'll go and do it then.

Speaker 35694.38s - 5719.56s

I said, yes, you will. So he's a good guy. I like, he's a good guy. He's got very determined, very very focused and that's good and I you know I just hope that everything is legitimate and what they're doing and where they're going and and how they're training that I wish them best of wishes best best wishes and good luck and everything else

Speaker 25719.56s - 5726.92s

okay yeah good he's been a guest on our show, Jake, already, after BWA EVENT.

Speaker 15732s - 5733.86s

Now, mustaches for distance runners, surely not practical.

Speaker 25735.24s - 5741s

They're a good... That's where I used to store all my baby food, all my bananas and rice.

Speaker 15741s - 5746.68s

I've just started one, and I think there's a lot of stuff getting caught in the mid run.

Speaker 25748.46s - 5749.02s

Yeah.

Speaker 15749.62s - 5755.1s

I was all part of that, you know, you know, trying to be, you know, do I, am I different

Speaker 25755.1s - 5761.3s

or what it was? It was just, you know, you can see me with my big lamb chops and then I went to a gutty

Speaker 05761.3s - 5767.86s

and you're all part of the, all part of the defining who I was it's our

Speaker 25767.86s - 5785.64s

favorite era of running the 70s and 80s the kings of the road yeah okay Rod PERSON thank you so much for your time this will be a very sought-after episode if if they're all as interested as I was in hearing about this

Speaker 15790.94s - 5792.78s

Wow, we did about hour and a half to know mate you've you've done so well you're a great talker

Speaker 25797.42s - 5799.76s

You can't shut me out you see that's the problem. Oh no, I love it. It's fantastic It's like the books coming alive the books that I read

Speaker 15800.4s - 5810.32s

Yeah, you know certainly and you know that you know we lost Quaxie last year and that was a huge chunk of my life.

Speaker 25811.66s - 5821.94s

And, of course, John PERSON with his Parkinson's is not the same, not the same boy that, you know, we were, but, you know, love these guys.

Speaker 15822.1s - 5828.44s

They're huge influences as with the girls, you know, Lorraine Muller and Allison Rowe and Analdane PERSON.

Speaker 25829.12s - 5835.96s

And then, of course, before them, the Millie Sampson's PERSON and the girls who were pioneers for women's running.

Speaker 15837.08s - 5839.36s

It's just been an amazing journey.

Speaker 35840.12s - 5844.12s

And the friendships have just been incredible.

Speaker 15844.72s - 5868.68s

And through social media, of course, we stay in touch. I'm in touch with guys that I haven't talked to for 20, 30 years, and we connect. And it's just fabulous. And it just joins this great, great human circle with love and, you know, just incredible. I love it yeah it's great to see you

Speaker 25868.68s - 5874.86s

putting back as well I love it yep I'm still I know Ed Hillary PERSON is looking down and he

Speaker 15874.86s - 5881.12s

he thinks it's pretty cool too yeah I'm sure okay thank you Rod right Jim PERSON see you

Speaker 25881.12s - s

me bye All right, Jen PERSON. See you, mate. Bye.