Flushing is Burning: The Worst of Times

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Sports is not as simple as bringing a bunch of big names together.

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Hey, guys, it is Ryan PERSON.

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Um, so I'm recording this Tuesday, May 7th at 11 o'clock at night. I just recap the game for Mason Avenue. And the Mets ORG just won a series. They just won two games against the Cardinals. This is a third game tomorrow, Wednesday. But even if they lose that, they've won this series. But before that, they lost a bunchof games. They lost before the series against Cardinals ORG, they lost 10 of 14. They were swept by the raise.Yeah, it hasn't been the most fun time for the Mets ORG. And, you know, we'll get into a little bit of sort of the issues that have been happening, although after today's game, there might be the beginning of some of those changing, but I think generally this is just going to be who they are this year.Like, you're going to get streaks of them looking unstoppable like they did in mid-April, and then it's going to be followed by streaks of them looking like the worst team on earth. And that sucks. It's not the unstoppable streaks, you're going to be very fun, but the terrible streaks are going to be unwatchable. But this is, such as the team this year, I mean,I don't think anyone had any illusions going into this year that they were going to be some sort of top-tier contender. You know, this isn't 2022. So, it's one of those things it's like it's hard to get worked up over. It's not really fun in the moment. But yeah, it could be worse. You know, they could be the Astros ORG. They could be the White Sox. Jesus, the could be worse. They could be the Astros.They could be the White Sox ORG. Jesus, the White Sox ORG. They could be the Rockies ORG. They could be the Marlins, who just traded Luis Arias PERSON. But yeah, it's not the most fun. And I think one of the big issues has been, in terms of production, there's been severalpeople who haven't produced up to what they should or hoped to or through their careers have been known to. And I think the two big ones were, Pete Alonzo and Jeff McNeil had really been struggling. And today, I'm just going to pull up today's box score. Because today, you know, they scored seven runs, and they looked better. I'm actually glad I'm recording this after this game because, you know, that there's a very real world where I record this before this game,and then I look like an idiot. But let's say, I guess the Rangers ORG one, I just got a bunch of notifications. I'm not a Rangers fan. I'm not an Islander's fan. I'm a PWHL New York GPE fan. But I'm very happy for all of my Ranger fan friends out there and my mom is a Rangers ORG fan. All of my Ranger fan friends out there, and my mom is a Rangers ORG fan.Let's see, box score. So today, McNeil had, McNeil went three for four, and Alonzo went two for five with three RBI. Any of that, that looks great. Might actually be the start of a breakout, hopefully for both of them. I guess the fear,the fear with Jeff and Pete PERSON are both similar and different. If Jeff is on the decline now, he's 32. And this kind of profile, you know, a spray hitting, you know, someone who relies on a bit of speed and a bit of, I don't want to say luck, but, you know, the ability to hit it where they ain't, you know,like this is a profile that does, that can tend to just sort of bottom out quicker. Um, and if he was bottoming out, like, this is what it would look like. So I wouldn't be shocked. That's what he's doing. It would personally depress me because Jack McNeil PERSON is the type of player that, um, I really enjoy, you know, like this is a profile. I enjoy cross sports. Someone who's like hard-nosed and kind of an asshole.But like grinds out, plays, and works really hard. You know, people who don't just, because they're athletes who can just sort of be great, you know. Not that they don't work hard, but there's athletes who can, it's easier for them to just be predisposed to, you know, Pete PERSON is hitting a million home runs in a way that Jeff would never go, right? And that's just because that's how Pete is built. So Jeff PERSON has to sort of grind and, you you know there's players who make the sport look easyJeff PERSON makes it look exactly how I feel like it would be to play in the major leagues which is like difficult and annoying and infuriating but also beautiful in its own way so it would suck if he's if if he's bottoming now, especially since they just signed him to an extension before last season. Like, it's the second year of the extension. It's not it's not as a 10-year deal, butit would just suck for it to happen now. Hopefully, if that is what, if that is what is happening, I don't want to prescribe anything onto him, you know, for a multitude of reasons. A, it's only been, you know, five or six weeks.B, I'm not a professional.

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But if that is what's happening, hopefully, you know, he can be just all right until Okunia and or Williams PERSON are ready to come up.

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And then, you know, you don't love to pay your super utility guy

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bench player like $18 million

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but like it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world you know he can play a bunch of positions he can still grind stuff out it happens the one that concerns me moreis Pete before today's game he was in the he was just The one that concerns me more is Pete PERSON. Before today's game, he was just mired in this huge slump. He looked absolutely lost it. He was swinging at garbage. He was making terrible contact. A lot of flyouts, a lot of groundouts, a lot of strikeouts.And there's a multifaceted thought process to my concern on this. One, how much of this is Eric Chavez? The whole team has been looking lost a lot of the time recently, and he clearly isn't helping the younger players. You know, Brett Beat PERSON baby francisco alvarez wasn't looking amazing before he got hurt and i don't know what terrifies me about chavez is is itis shavez i think andy shavez actually said it was pronounced chavez and i get those two because of the, you know, spelled the same conceptually, but they're pronounced different, and that confuses me. I, you know, I think it's Eric Chavez. Eric Chavez has a lot of Chili Davis PERSON vibes, which I don't love, because we remember how that happened. And I don't know, is he going to go out like Chili Davis PERSON?Chili Davis was fired, I believe, by this point in the season in 2021. And then they brought in Hugh Quattelbaum PERSON, but that name is going to be such a great Mets trivia thing one day. But yeah, it's concerning, you know, and Eric Chavez is posting on his Instagram ORG stuff that makes it look like He's trying to open up a private hitting instruction thing for kids, and it's like, bro, do your job. Like, go in there, do your, like, what are you doing?You ever see those, like, the posts of him where he's, like, kind of, like, looking sad into the camera, and it's like, what are you doing? You get paid, you know posts of him where he's like kind of like looking sad into the camera and it's like what are you doing? You get paid, you know, pretty penny and the Mets ORG look like shit, you know? And then an athletic article came out today about Pete Alonzo whichmade it sound like the Mets might be looking in the Freddie Freeman PERSON range for an extension for him which is also just around what Matt Olson got. Obviously I think Olson got Mets might be looking in the Freddie Freeman PERSON range for an extension for him, which is also just around what Matt Olson PERSON got. Obviously, I think Olson gotmore years than Freeman PERSON. And Alonso and Boris PERSON are looking at the Miguel Cabrera range, which is like the record fora first basement. And now Pete PERSON is turning 30 in December. So whatever the contract is, you're signing him to, and I just want to look up how old MiguelCabrera was when he signed his contract. Because I believe Miguel Cabrera's PERSON contract was, you know, for 10 years or whatever. Let's see. Allow. Okay.It's so weird that Miguel Cabreras PERSON in playing anymore. Just like it feels weird. We're going to baseball reference. Okay, so he signed his extension with the Tigers ORG. It looks like in 2010 when he was 27. And it was a 14-year deal.Oh, 2011. Let's say. Does it have anything on here that? Yeah. So what he was in his late 20s, but he still had that prime ahead of him, and he was, Miguel Cabrera is a very special kind of player, and I love Pete Alonzo PERSON, but I would neverargue that Peter Alonzo and Miguel Cabrera PERSON in the same stratosphere. And from what I've seen, again, easily accessible, easily understood, public known stats, a lot of his, like, hard hit rate and everything in that universe is, like, terrifyingly low this year. Like, not just, like, oh, it's a little bit lower than it's been in the past. Like, it is bottoming out. And, I mean, of course, he's in a slump, and small sample size or whatever, but that's,the fact that it's not even like, oh, he's just bad luck. He's hitting a lot of balls hard, and they're just going right at guys, you know, because you see that happen. He's not even hitting the ball hard. And it seems to be a lot of,like, the Chavez PERSON, you know, take what the pitcher gives you, you know, just hit what he throws, which leads to a lot of like groundouts and flyouts and stuff like that that don't need to happen, you know? He's already striking out a ton. If he can just wait and swing it what he wants to swing at, I don't see how that's any different.And, you know, I mentioned he's turning 30 in December. It's an impossible for a player for this skill set to begin degradation like now. And that's what is happening. It pains me to say this, like, should they even try that hard for him? You know, and again, it's, if you're telling me the difference is like, you know, he's going to be 30. So you sign him for six years or seven years, eight years, however much, you know.And it's 150, $160 million MONEY. Okay. $170 million, $180 million. You want to give him $250 million? He's degrading now and he's 30.You know, it's Steve Cohen's PERSON money. Like, we shouldn't care, but there is conceptually an upper limit that we've seen him exercise now. He doesn't want to spend that insane amount of money. And if he's going to bethis bad at first base, which has been pretty bad at first base this year, I'm actually curious. Again, we're going to look at some you know, easily accessible publicstats. I'm just curious to see what his OAA is. Because I think that that's, you know, again, none of this stuff is perfect. You've got to take it all together, but position.There's base team Mets ORG. Update. Uh-oh, baseball savant, there we go. So Pete's been worth negative 2, OAA, this year. Negative 3 going in, and he's actually positive if he has to go backwards. It's just, if he has to be DH, right? And given the team construction now, like, let's say Ryan Clifford PERSON, who hasn't been great inhigh A, but also I know I've heard people say that the Brooklyn Park FAC is terrible for lefty hitters, like the batterer's eye. So whatever, let's say Ryan Clifford comes up in three years, he's good enough to be your first baseman, whatever. Okay. So if the construction of the team is that way, it's like, okay, then Olaunso PERSON, I guess, could be your D.H.You know, that makes sense. But if you were Steve Cohen, who, you know, from everything we've heard, is also going to make a push for Wansoto ORG. Juan Soto PERSON is also a D.H. And at that point, what are we doing in it? And it's just, I love Pete PERSON. I really do.But given what's happened this year and what we know the last couple years because his numbers have been declining in the last couple years in terms of hard hit and everything like that it's just the idea of the miggy contract here just terrifies me you know like the freeman contract i'm on board with even a little bit more than that i you could you could convince me. But like, at a certain point, you know, he's with Boris PERSON too, who did this bullshit with allof his other clients this year, and then they all just ended up not getting what they wanted anyway, you know? And that's the kind of thing that leads to a lot of hurt feelings. And I think if it gets to that point, does he even stay with the message? Just because they wouldn't give him what he felt he deserved, you know, for better or for worse, that can damage a relationship. But, you know, I don't know. This is, this is weird.They should have extended him three years ago, but, you know, or four years ago or whatever. But, yeah, it's, again, it's like this weird trickle-down effect of, but, you know, or four years ago or whatever. But yeah, it's, it's, again, it's like this weird trickle-down effect of, like, them never extending anyone before free agency or really making an attempt to. And now we're here, you know, it just, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, makes you feel bad. Um, so after that enlightening discussion, that very uplifting,while we take a break and come back, I want to do like a little pre, because WNBA season starts, uh, next week. I want to do a little preseason primer. So that way you can figure out what's going on and who you might want to root for if you're not going to root for the liberty, which if you're listening to this, this is a Liberty ORG podcast, even though it's not a basketball podcast, this is a liberty podcast. But we'll get into that in a minute.

Speaker 71074.82s - 1087.34s

I'm Alex Rodriguez. And I'm Jason Kelly. From Bloomberg, this is the deal. Each week, you're here as in conversation with business icons. This show will explore dealmaking across sports, media, and entertainment.

Speaker 81087.88s - 1090.2s

That is a harsh lesson in business.

Speaker 31090.38s - 1093.48s

Sports is not as simple as bringing a bunch of big names together.

Speaker 81093.5s - 1095.32s

I didn't want to do another stop you out speech.

Speaker 71095.42s - 1096.78s

It opened up so many more doors.

Speaker 31096.92s - 1097.86s

The show is called the deal.

Speaker 71098.86s - 1100s

Listen to the deal.

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Listen to the deal on Spotify ORG.

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It is Ryan PERSON here, and I have a question for you.

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What do you do when you win?

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Like, are you a fist pumper?

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A woo-hooer?

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And we're back. So the WMBA season starts on Tuesday, a week from today, DATE the 14th. And I figured it would be a good idea. You know, I figure most Mets ORG fans in this area would probably, they're going to watch just gravitate towards the liberty, but in case you don't want to do that or you want to hear your options,if you are a Mets ORG fan somewhere else who wants to, you know, maybe refer a team closer. You figure this would be a good time to give a primer on each team, especially since, you know, this year there's going to be a lot more eyes on the league, given the Caitlin Clark PERSON of it all. So I'm going to run through the teams in alphabetical orderand just give you sort of like a little bit of, you know, base level knowledge on them. So first up, the Atlanta dream. There's a very good young core headlined by Ryan Howard PERSON, who's an up and gumming star.I think she's already a star, but, you know, there's more facets of her game for her to really access and hone. And there's a lot of fun players between her and Alicia Gray, Cheyenne Parker PERSON. Yeah, it's a very fun team.They're probably still on like the rise, like on the come-up. They're not quite there yet. You know, their playoff team, but they have very noticeable flaws. So I don't think they would go too far, just like last year. They didn't go too far in the playoffs, but they still made it to the playoffs. I see that being the same this year.I wrote this before the preseason game that started. It happened a couple hours ago. My thoughts haven't changed, but it definitely feels worse now that the Chicago Sky just beat the Liberty ORG by like 48 points in a preseason game. Chicago Sky got a new coach this year. Liberty legend Teresa Weatherspoon, T-Spoon PERSON, who is just like, she makes,she and herself makes you want to root for them. And they also picked up two really good draftees in Angel Reese and Camilla Cardoso. They're very fun players. They're going to be a very pesky team. They're not going to be the best team in the league. You know, anywhere but close to the bottom of the league.But they're going to be pesky. They're going to be annoying. They're going to be a team that is going to shoot and is going to score and will probably pick up a few more wins than you're expecting to just because of the talent level of Cardoso and Reese Cardoso starting the season injured, which is terrible for them.But yeah, I definitely, this is a team that in my mind, I'm like, if they, the one flaw that they have, which is comparable to another team, you know, they're quality will probably comparable to another team. But the flaw that they have that other team doesn't is, they have no draft picks in the future. They keep trading away first round draft picks for God knows what reason. So, yeah, it's basically going to come down to Angel Reese and Camilla Cardoso being good.The Connecticut Sun ORG, they're close. They were good last year. They'll be good again this year. They're very stable. They have elite talent. The Connecticut Sun ORG, they're close. They were good last year. They'll be good again this year. They're very stable. They have elite talent on the team.Liz Thomas, who came in second or third in MVP voting last year. Rihanna Jones, great center, DeWana Bonner PERSON, a whole famer, in my opinion. I think they're lacking the pieces to push them over some of the bussyer teams in the league, you know, the Aces, the Liberty ORG. I would even argue the storm at this point.They're lacking those pieces to put them over on paper. But I think that they're, listen, from experience, they're annoying, and they will fight their way to more wins than you'd expect. Last year's semifinals almost, you know, sent me to the hospital. I was so aggravated. And they'll do that to you. They're a very fun, good team.The best team on paper, no. But, you know, they'll pick up a few wins at the margins that you wouldn't expect. Stephanie White PERSON, their coach is great, too. The Dallas Wings, another fun young course, some really explosive talent on that team. Aririke, Gumbuale, Satu Saboli, who's going to, again, another player who's going to start the season injured. But Arirke PERSON is amazing.One of those plays, you just can't take your eyes off of. Satu, again, it's going to be hurt for a decent portion of season. So the team is probably going to, they were the, what were they? The number four or five seed last year. They'll probably underperform a bit compared to last year just because of that. There'll probably be another playoff team this year,and they've got some really fun talent. Their coach, Letitia Trammell PERSON, she's great, and she's very fun. She's another very fun coach. This is a good, like, a good, like, ground floor team because they have flaws.They've, again, very noticeable flaws, a lot of of defensive stuff but they're a team that like they're on the rise you know just this is the kind of team that would probably go farther in the playoffs that they weren't also existing in the super team era um the indiana feeder the toast of the town this year. They directed Caitlin Clark PERSON, obviously. Everyone knows. They have some other great talent that really can't be overlooked. You know, Kathleen Mitchell PERSON. Last year's number one direct pick, Alia Boston PERSON.And I believe 2021's number two or number three pick, Melissa Smith PERSON. And I just want to double check that. Melissa Smith PERSON. Yeah, she double-check that. Melissa Smith. Oops. Yeah, she was the second overall pick in 2022. It's just a really good team.I think the buzz that they've received on ESPN and in major outlets that have never really covered women's sports in-depth that know of Caitlin Clark PERSON. I think a lot of places and a lot of people are assuming they're going to be a runaway success. They're not going to be a runaway success. There's going to be potential adjustment period for Clark PERSON. The team's going to have to learn how to gel with each other. But this is definitely a team that I could see being a seven or eight seed playoff contender.You know, scrappy, good. They'll probably, you know, they're going to be good this year. They're just not going to be as good as everyone wants them to be with Caitlin Clark PERSON. But it's the same thing. It's one of those things you join this. You want to find a team to root for?This is a team you're root for from the ground up, right? Like you're getting in there as they start getting really great. This is the... This is, like, Rune for the Liberty in 2021, right? Because 2020, they got Sabrina and Escu PERSON, to fever got Alia Boston last year.Didn't really make that much of a difference. And then the next year, they really start building it up, and it really starts to work. Yeah. The Las Vegas Ases NORP, back to back champions, they'relike the WMBA Death Star. They're just the most well-oiled machine. Becky Hammond PERSON. They've depth issues, but it really literally doesn't matter. They're just going tomuscle their way to 35 wins and probably a championship. I don't, I think we might have talked a little bit about the Aces ORG stuff on here, about the pregnancy discrimination, which I think is like, not the best, but like, this is a very bandwagon choice, but I'm not going to begrudge you forchoosing the best team the league to root for. You know, I root for the Liberty ORG. And I did sort of luck into them being this good now, you know, like they actually really, really tried to be this good. But it's the same thing. The Aces ORG had a long period of not being good to get to this point. So I'm a liberty diehard. If you choose to bandwagon them, I'm only going to judge you a little bit. That's just because I'm a liberty fan.The Los Angeles Sparks, this team is a disaster. Two great draft picks and Rikia Jackson and Cameron Brink PERSON, but the roster construction is an absolute mess. And they just say goodbye to Nekke Goumike PERSON, who's a franchise player,which came on the heels of them saying goodbye to Chelsea Gray and Candice Parker PERSON. And, you know, it's just, it's a transitionary. Is that a word? It's a transition period for them.This is a good team to, like, ground floor your way onto it, because the good draft picks, they're still going to be bad this year. You'll be there from the ground up, but they are the inverse of the sky in that they have their own draft picks in the coming years. So they'll actually be able to bear fruit of their own terrible record this year. The Minnesota Lynx, former dynasty, early 2010s, Link PERSON's team just could not be stopped. Nefisa Collier PERSON is their star.I think she's one of the most underrated players in the league, and I'm saying that knowing that she's considered one of the best players in the league. I think she's just even underrated being called one of the best players in league. This is like a top five player in the league. She had a baby and then came back hooping last year. Like it was nothing.Some fun younger players, they just drafted Alyssa Pilly PERSON. They're going to likely be in the playoffs this year unless something goes horribly awry. I mean, it went horribly awry last year, and they still made it in. You know, this is like a mid-seed playoff team.They're fun, they're good. Nefisa Collier PERSON is more than enough reason to root for them. The New York GPE Liberty. If you live in New York, incredible choice, they play at Barclays ORG. They're the only original team without a championship. For context, that's, I'm, I'm trying to think, when did the liberty come into existence? Because it has been too long for them to not have a championship.They were in like the first four finals. They just never won. Yeah, so they were founded in 1997. No championships, no rings. They're one of the super teams. They got as close as one can get to a championship last year,and they're going to be hopefully back with a vengeance this year. Again, they just lost by 48 to one of the worst teams in the league in a preseason game, but also, who knows? They were able to keep all the great players together through extensions and re signings. They have the reigning MVP and Brianna Stewart, the three-point champion of Sabrina Inescu PERSON, former MVP, Cuyangelo-ko Jones PERSON, one of the greatest point guardsthe league as I've seen in Courtney Vanderslude PERSON. And in my opinion, maybe the most underrated player in the league, Benigilani PERSON, is incredible. The kind of player who's impacted, and she scores and she assists,but the impact she has is one that, like, when you watch the game, it really comes into focus. She is an incredible defender and just a real heads-up player. She's, she's, you know, I really got into Liberty ORG when they drafted Yenescu PERSON. I was like, okay. And then she got hurt, whatever, and I was watching it. I was like, this is good. And it was the next year when they got Lainey PERSON, and I watched Lainey play. And I was like, okay. And then she got hurt, whatever. And I was watching it. I was like, this is good. And it was the next year when they got Lainey PERSON, and I watched Lainey play.And I was like, this is why basketball rocks. Like, this is what I'm here for. So I definitely, even if you're not, you choose not to serve for liberty. Root for Lainey PERSON. Next, the Phoenix Mercury ORG. They're attempting a super team. But, I mean, two of the core pieces of that attempt are, one of them is 42.And another one is in their second year back after being wrongfully detained in Russia GPE and having to.

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Again, I've said this on top of the key, and I'll say it here,

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I obviously don't begrudge Brittany Griner PERSON having to take time off after something like that. But also, she's in her early mid-30s now, Brittany Griner PERSON, and she had that happen. So she's not, I wouldn't say she's in her prime anymore, and they're building a super team. She is 33. They're attempting to build a super team. It's a really odd team construction where it's very top-heavy, but they also have some of the most fun players in the league. And Brittany Griner, Kalia Copper, Natasha Cloud PERSON.

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They also have maybe the least fun, light,

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fun, whatever you want to say, player in the league in Sophie Cunningham PERSON. If you choose to root for the Liberty ORG, you got to root against the Mercury ORG, because next year, should the Mercury ORG win the,if they're in the draft lottery. Liberty then would have the option to swap first round picks with them next year. And, um, you, A, you want Liberty ORG to get into the lottery. B, you really want them to get number one, because if they get number one, if the Phoenix worker you get number one, Liberty get number one, the Liberty get number one, and Liberty get Paige Becker's PERSON. And Paige Becker'swould be perfect on the Liberty ORG. Anyway, the Seattle Storm ORG, they had one bad year. They said that.We've had enough of that. And they went Super Team mode, got Skyler Dick PERSON and Smith and Nekogloumikai to add to Jewel Lloyd PERSON. Those are like three Hall of Famers right there. Skylar James Smith and Jewel Lloyd, I think, still have to add to their resumes, but Nekoglumika PERSON, I feelconfident in saying she makes it in. They're going to be very good this year. They're a very fun, likable group of play. Like, I dare you to dislike Jewel Lloyd PERSON. Like, I dare you to. She just seems like the nicest person in the world. And the storm also, just historically, are are the gold standard. Through the league's history, they're the gold standard for taking care of players, for winning, for building sustainable winning culture.Yeah, they're going to be fun. I think they're going to be very high up in the league this year, given the talent on the team. We'll see what happens with them. And finally, the Washington Mystics, who, this is a rebuilding year for them, they still have some exciting players, though. They're going to make this team a fun one to watch.You got Britney Sykes PERSON. He's a really great guard. Shakir Austin, who's injured a lot of last year, but when she's healthy, she's incredible. They just drafted Leah Edwards out of Yukon ORG, who I think a lot of this team's successful ride on her shoulders. And then personally, D.D. Richards, who's a former member of Liberty ORG, is incredibly fun and glad to see she's back in the league. Again, that sort of scrappy, defensive-minded, you know, nose to the grindstone player.I'd love to see her make it. If Alia Edwards is great this year, I do, I could actually do, I could actually do maneuvering their way into one of the last playoff spots just because the team is still decent. But much like the pregnancy discrimination thing with the Aces ORG, the fact that Elena Deladon PERSON actively chose not to play this year instead of coming back to the Mystics ORG on like a max contract,it's probably not great. You know, probably either. The vibe there I'm getting is not spectacular. So, you know, there's that choice if you want to make it. But yeah, that's that choice if you want to make it. But yeah, that's the landscape of the WNBA coming into this year.And, of course, next year they're going to add a 13th team. I guess they do odd numbers now. But if you decide to tune in the season and you want to listen to a show that maybe focuses more on that and, you know, guides your understanding in the league, it gives you, you know, analysis and thoughts and news and stuff. I host a show with Thomas Henderson of From Complex Queens called Top of the Key WORK_OF_ART. You can find it at FFSNWNWNBA ORG's feed. It's the only show on there. And we cover the W ORG college women's basketball,you know, any sort of women's basketball, we cover it, or at least attempt to. And major, you know. And yeah, it's worth your time if you decide to tune into the W this year. So now that that's done, why don't we take a break and we come back? I've got a movie, a complex movie minute again.

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And we're back. So my movie minute this week, much like my midnightnight Cowboy one WORK_OF_ART, is a movie and a book. It's not two movies in a book. It's a singular movie and a singular book. The movie is Hainan, which is a classic Western NORP.

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What's really spectacular about this movie is it's

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part of a grouping of films from this era

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that are directly tackling the Hollywood GPE blacklist.

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And the book is called High Noon WORK_OF_ART, The Hollywood Blacklist, and the making of an American classic, I believe. It's a long title. Yes. Written by Glenn Franklin also wrote the Midnight Cowboy WORK_OF_ART book.And I think again, when you watch the movie and read the book, when you pair them together, it really works because it's sort of, it colors in the the outline that's there by high noon.You watch High Noon WORK_OF_ART and it's clear, if you're thinking about it in this, it's clear that it's a movie written from the point of view of someone who was in the process of being blacklisted as this movie was getting made.And sort of the feeling of being one man against many, one good against many bad. And it's just, it's incredible to read this book because it sort of winds in all of these classic Hollywood figures, you know, Gary Cooper PERSON,Stanley Kramer PERSON, a lot of people involved in the blacklist, not Joseph McCarthy PERSON, like some of the lower level people, some of the Hollywood-based people, Roderigan PERSON, we're not fans. And high-new is a black-and-white film,but this book adds a vibrant color to it. I hated that as soon as it was coming out of my mouth. It's just, it's really, I love the making of books, right? And you're getting that here.You're getting the process from story, from thought, through, to its final conclusion. But this book does a really good job of sort of giving you the larger context there. In the way that the Midnight Cowboy WORK_OF_ART book did, then the way that the Midnight Cowboy documentary did, it's sort of filling you in on the idea of the Hollywood GPE blacklist, of the red scare of the conservative reactionary world that came about post-World War II at the beginning of the Cold War EVENT.And yeah, it's just, it's interesting to read about how, you know, the guy who had the blacklisted writers back wasn't Stanley Kramer who was seen as this sort of liberal filmmaker, but Gary Cooper, who was like this Republican NORP actor who was just like, well, I think he did a good job, I think he's a good guy, You know, like, it's really interesting to sort of see these, these lines that you would think would be drawn in the sand actually cross over each other. It does, the book does my least favorite thing that I've noticed in Glenn Frankel's PERSON books, specifically. And this is why I'm going to urge that you watch the movie before you read the book. And that is why I'm going to urge that you watch the movie before you read the book.And that's that he loves, for who knows what reason, he loves to have a chapter, like three quarters of the way in, where he just gives you an entire plot synopsis of the film. And he'll throw little tidbits in here and there.But it's just like 15 pages of a treatment of this film. And it's just unnecessary. But yeah, it's, you know, it's a movie where they cast a Latina NORP actress that, you know, promptly everyone fell in love with. It's a movie where Grace Kelly PERSON was making sort of this big entrance into the industry and she was deeply neurotic about it and felt like she did a terrible job. It's this movie where your producer, the director, the writer, all were sort of fighting with each other for credit and end in the years since theactual people who we can credit where is lost. So we kind of just have to give all three of them total credit. It's such a good movie because it's in real time, right? And it's so compact. I like my kind of Western. I like the Westerns that aren't like your prototypical. Like, John Ford Westerns ORG never really do a ton for me. But I love this.I love Johnny Guitar PERSON. I love Bouch Cassidy's on Dance Kid WORK_OF_ART. I love stuff that's tackling the genre from a different point of view than just like, we're the cowboys, you know? Like High Noon WORK_OF_ART is a Western, but it's not about cowboys, it's aboutyou know, outlaws and a sheriff and a sheriff who has to do the right thing. Despite it being the most unpopular thing to do, despite the fact that everyone else either is actively harming himor obstructing him or just passively not offering him any assistance. And when you take this movie and you compare it to the likes of on the waterfront, I think is a really good comparison here, right? Because you've got two people, two filmmakers, or two groups of filmmakers in regards to on the waterfront, which is like Kazan PERSON and Schoelberg. You've got two films about opposite sides of the Hollywood Blacklist WORK_OF_ART, right? Those who were named and those who named.Right. Not unlike the accusers and, you know, it's not the board versus the people on trial. It's the named versus the namers. And how each side thinks that they're right. And when you throw in there, because it came about at the same time, Arthur Miller's The Crucible WORK_OF_ART,which is a tremendous towering achievement of, you know, American NORP theater. I love Arthur Miller PERSON. He's probably my second favorite playwright, and number one is Shakespeare PERSON. So, like, you know, that's good company.When you take these work, specifically high noon and on the order for him, because they feel very similar in a lot of ways. They're about a guy who has to stand up and do what's right. But when you take a step back and you see the points of view that they're being made through, that these two films that feel so of a piece are actively budding heads with each otherbecause the filmmakers are budding heads with each other in that sense of like, one side is saying to name names to do that to be named to be known as the target makes you toxic it makes you radioactive no one wants to touch you no one wants to help you no one wants to touch you. No one wants to help you. No one wants to be seen with you lest they get the target transferred to their back as well. And the other film is arguing thatthe only right thing to do is to name names because how else are we going to be able to catch the bad guys because everyone is just willing to say, I'm not going to say anything because it's better for them. Right? And the truth of the situation, it falls somewhere in the middle.I think that's what Haini Annun PERSON, the book Hainian WORK_OF_ART captures really well is that, for some people, naming names is the only way that they saw a feature for themselves. For some people, being named meant the end of their career, their life in America GPE, their life in general,if you're going to talk about John Garfield PERSON. And for some people, they show it as an opportunity. There's a screenwriter who's talked about at length at Pine Noon, who named like 150 names, right? And they would typically be like, we want names and they would like, if you were to name names, you'd throw out like 10 names that were already named. Or they would read that list and you would be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, no, I don't know, you know. And the list that the board was getting, the committee was getting came from this one screenwriter who was just like, well, this is my chance, right? Because he was a was a failed basically failed screenwriter he wrote like commercial pictures that no one had to be real interest in and for all of these people there's a reason why they did the thing they did now it can be good or it can be bad or it can be neither to be neutral you know i believe it was edward demetrickwho who went up there and he was part of the tenant. He named a few names. And the neutral part of it is, like, he stood on his morals for as long as he felt he could. But at a certain point, you know, what's the... You don't want to say what's the harm because there's a harm in it but like they already have these namesthey've already gotten it confirmed from this person this person this person this person is basically a kangaroo court you saying yes does that change the other four people's yes to be more yesor does it just make you now to the studio seem like oh well we can hire this guy because he did the right thing at the end of the day. I have a lot of thoughts on Hollywood Blacklist WORK_OF_ART. I think it's one of the most, not even just the Hollywood Blacklist WORK_OF_ART, just the whole Blacklist in general is one of the most shameful periods of our, you know, society. But I'll cut myself off there.So go watch high nude. It's like 85 minutes. It happens in real time, too, which is really interesting. Like, it's like 85 minutes long, and it takes place over 85 minutes TIME. And then read the book. The book is really good.It came out a few years ago. Yeah. So thank you for listening. If you like this show, you can follow us online. We're on Twitter at FIB Pod, on Instagram at Flushing is Burning WORK_OF_ART Pod, and then you can email us at Flushing is Burning at gmail.com. If you like this show, you're on this podcast network, you haven't listened to the other shows. I really recommend them from Complex to Queens, which I mentioned before, about minor league system. A pot of their own, hosted by Allison McKake PERSON, and Linda Sarvich, and Maggie Wigan. Really great show by the Women of Amazing Avenue ORG.Today, Your Love Tomorrow the World Series, from Chris and Brian, you know, all the shows on the network. They're all great. If you like those shows and you like this show, if you go to either in the description of this episode, or if you go to Home Run Applesawess.com ORG, there'll be a link to our Patreon ORG. Patreon is $5 a month.You get exclusive access to the Discord server, exclusive episodes only available on the Patreon ORG, monthly playlist, all sorts of cool stuff. Five bucks a month. And that money just comes right back to us. You know, and you don't have to do it if you don't want to. I don't want to sit here, be like, you should do it.

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Like, you know, whatever makes financial sense for you. But if you got that extra five bucks MONEY to spare, you really like our work, you know, we'd appreciate it.

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So thank you for listening. And be back next week with another episode.