2024 NBA Playoffs: Previews & Postmortems

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What is crack-alack and fellow thermonuclear A-Fers? I am Dan F Valley PERSON coming at you with my certified fantabularness dripping in fantabulous Nis thermonuclear AF co-host. Mr. Grant Hughes, we are excited to bring you the number one NBA ORG podcast in the business. Once again, going to talk about playoffs, autopsies, advancements, post-mortems, or I guess autopsies and advancements, Nuggets Timberwolves ORG we were getting to. We're not going to do series-by-ser series previews normally unless they're available to us.Grant PERSON and I were just talking. It just doesn't make sense. They become dated so quickly and we're not going to record every single day, even though we would love to provide you with that much content. We end up just going too long. And there's just big picture stuff we want to tackle too.So we're going to do an extensive dive into Nuggets Timberwolves ORG. Those fan bases, shout out to your teams for taking care of work early. We hate that we're also not talking about Sixers Knicks this week or Pacers Bucks because we've recorded on the days that games are being played. So we're going to get into some general thoughts on those. So you can skip right ahead once we get to those because those two teams are going to we're recording this before they play on uh what is what is today wednesday is it

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Thursday? It's Thursday Thursday Thursday. Thursday. So yeah, well, those games will have already

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happened. But the question that the people want to know, Mr. Hughes PERSON, how the heck are you doing?

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I'm a little nervous because we are going to talk about trades. And I think... Not on this podcast.

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Well, eventually today.

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So that's already bothering me. Yeah, I'm excited to talk about, like, even though we've admitted it'll be stale. Like, we've just, it feels like we've been ignoring too much of what's actually happening in the real NBA ORG world just because of the realities of podcast scheduling and release dates and the immediacy of like stale takes with the way

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playoff series go these the one the series that are going on now like or just no series but but I don't have like a great feel for bucks pacers uh I feel like I used to feel that way about mass clippers and now I have a stronger hold on that. Bucks ORG paste them just like as we're recording this, Janice and Dame are going to try to play in game six, but we don't know if they're going to. So thank you for providing us with absolutely no information,which I really appreciated that little news item there. And then it's that should change the course of the series, but like Janus PERSON is, the ramp up has been very slow. So he's going to go from that to playing. What would that even look like?And then there's, the Pacers ORG have this. Yes, they've taken care of business at points in this series, but they just have this pension for playing down to, their competition.It's almost impressive at this point. So I don't really know what to make of this series. The Nick Sixers ORG series, I am torn between like if we're fast running in the future. For my mental health, I feel like I want the Knicks to win game six and like let's get into this second round stuff. But this series objectively deserves a game step. Yeah, that's the thing. I want to jump back to

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the Pacers Bucks thing. It's like for many of the series in the first round, I don't know if you do this. I could just be telling on myself. And I think I've alluded to this a little bit, but it's like when a key injury is like the entire, you know,first chunk of your analysis of the series. And it's just like, so like Jimmy Butler for Miami or Janus for the Bucks ORG or whatever. Like it just makes me, it's just not that much to learn, right? Because there's not about either team because it's like,well, if one main guy is not there, then like one, you don't get an accurate picture of the team that's missing the star. And you're not really getting an accurate picture of the team that's playing against the team that has a missing star. So like when you're looking for takeaways,like let's say Indiana GPE wins and, you know, the bucks go away and the Pacers ORG advance. And it's just like, I don't know, what do we really learn about the Pacers ORG?Other than, like, I think if anything, I said this, I did a radio hit yesterday. And I said like, I was just,the host was asking me about that particular series. And I was just like, I don't know, my takeaway is like Indiana GPE is not to be taken all that seriously because they just got beat by like Bobby Portis and Pat Beverly PERSON. So like that that just, you know,I don't know, it doesn't say anything about the Bucks ORG really, but it says more about the Pacers ORG. So like I guess my takeaway is like if you don't just wipe the floor with the team missing, it's two best players,then I'm, you know, not inclined to take you all that seriously against a theoretically better, healthier team the next. Like, there's just not a lot to learn.

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So I think in some ways,

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that's, that's maybe good that we haven't gone like game to game on all these series on this podcast because like, what's there to say about a series where it's so many key figures are not playing?

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Right. And you probably learn, I think, more about, I mean, you do learn things like, well, how far away are the Pacers ORG if it takes them this long to handle the bucks or even if they lose?

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That's what I mean. Yeah. You can learn that type of thing.

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And we've talked extensively about what Dame looked like independent of Janus PERSON, which is both encouraging and then also, well, wait.

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Like, doesn't matter. Is that a thing that we need to worry about moving forward? We did say, for any bucks fans that are listening to this, we did say that if they're together next year, I think Janice and Dame ORG are just going to roll over worlds. I think it's honestly just a continuity thing will help.

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The Nick Sixth, these games have had some, the Nick Sixers ORG more so, but even the Pacers ORG' bucks, like the wild endings,

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that wild ending was a game four was just Chris Middleton PERSON, by the way, just can't really move on defense anymore. But that dude is just cold when it comes to the postseason for the most part. Even when there's been in series past, when they've, I think they even got steamrolled by Boston was it one year, but like Chris Middleton PERSON is just a god. So like the endings, there's been more separation in bucks pacers generally but likethey had that wild ending and then i really like the nick sixers has been i called it well i said this about timberwolves nuggets is going to be cocaine for the soul and then shout out to everything blacks ORG and discord for saying that works because i'd put that series up my nose like nix and sixers NORP has has actually just been like this a shot of adrenaline every

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second and game i we can't harp on it too much like game five was one of the most bizarre endings i've ever seen i will so this that series has been great but it also just you learn stuff about the way joel and b played hurt where it's sometimes it looks like he can't move. And he really, he's playing on one leg, it feels like,then he can still dominate at points. And I think that like there, he looks more vulnerable defensively for sure. But then even the Knicks ORG aren't healthy. You find out point about Donovich is just done for the year. He's going to be re,or the season, he's going to be revaluated in three months. And all of a sudden, that's, you know, that's a shock to two systems,right? Because you're looking at it. Well, if the Knicks ORG make it further, like this offense is going, and it has. It will run out of gas at points. Just what it's, it's relying on Jalen Brunson PERSON, offensive rebounds. They're even getting to a point where it's, oh, Duce McBride is going to close at least against the sixers over Dante Divencenzzo PERSON, it feels like.And then it also is, well, if Bogdanovich is this injured, how much of an asset is his money leading into the summer? Do you all of a thing about not guaranteeing his contract? That's a conversation for another day. But Sixers, Knicks, if it's over by the time you're listening to it, that's the first round series we deserve.

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Yeah, it's really the tone of it all along, because Mbid came in injured and because the Knicks are playing guys 53 minutes or whatever.

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Like several guys were over 50 in game five.

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It's just like hilarious to look at the box score. What's part of what's made that series so compelling. I mean, obviously the main thing is the finishes to these games. Maxi's seven points and, you know, 28s or, you know, two possessions in a row to just, like, I just, I'm never, I'm never going to wrap my head around, uh, the end of game five, which youwould have said about what was a game two, which went the other way, uh, but like, the idea that both of these teams are just like trying to hold on, like, and B's gutting it out. And the, the Knicks ORG are playing fewer and fewer guys more and more minutes and just like, everyone's exhausted. And you have some like, some really ugly stretches with like tons of turnovers andlike not just like mistakes but guys are just too physically tired to like think correctly it seems like sometimes like Brunson had that throwaway late that was key and Bede PERSON's like Mbid had what nine turnovers in game five.

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I only had 10 so I looked up who had 10 turnovers and a playoff victory.

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And he would have been the first since like 2000.

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I think it was James Harden in 2013 or something like that.

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But he only had nine. So that was still the first game that happened where you won since that James Harden game. But still.

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It's just like just the who's going to collapse first is like a fun, a fun tone to have for the series. And like that was, that's what makes the bursts of like incredible scoring and finishes. And like when Embed PERSON.

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The greatest player alive had the sixers on his back for.

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Did you,

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this series has made me reevaluate my like dismissal of Maxi as the deserving winner of most improved.

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It's just like he's right.

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Right.

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I'm sorry, Kobe White PERSON's not doing this.

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Like the regular season award and we'll have to,

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once all the awards are done,

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we'll have to just go through them,

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do like we haven't done news in a while.

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So we'll have to do that at some point.

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Shout out to a hustle player of the year award winner,

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the Alex Caruso PERSON.

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And Mike Conley winning teammate of the year, aren't the Lakers ORG happy they passed on the chance

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to acquire him?

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Anyway, where is I?

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Oh, but Max PERSON, yeah, like the deceler, like the change of cadence when he's getting downhill

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and the playmaking and create out of that.

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I did see, this is a, an evergreen take that we could talk about to get into just, I can't

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remember who said it. But they said that Tyrese Maxie is now the face of the Sixers ORG. And to me, that is just unequivocally not true. Right. And both emotionally, but also functionally, the Sixers were terrible while Join Bede PERSON was injured. They were just, they've won the minutes with Maxie and Noin Bede for the year, but they were just so, like you can't,let's not jump the chart. He's a max player in all NBA ORG caliber player. That's enough praise to throw at him at the moment.

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It's not, it's even with the Anthony Edwards stuff where I don't necessarily think it's a rush, but if you're saying Anthony Edwards is the inarguable future face of the league, it's like, no, he can be in the discussion and that's enough praise to heap upon his performance.

Speaker 2708.82s - 740.74s

I don't love, I don't feel like it's going to be a trend, but now we've got two of like trying to anoint someone the face of something, which is just like that doesn't, that's a, that's a term without like an actual meaning. Like what, what is the like, what does that mean? It's not like the best. It's not most important, most valuable. Like the, you know, it doesn't, it's like a new way to talk about a player that doesn't require you to support it with like any actual evidence. It's just like, well, he's the fake.He's not. Like, I think the stat is that the Sixers ORG have been outscored by like a point per minute with Embed PERSON off the floor in this series.

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And this is the version of MBE can't move like for half of the game so

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it just like come on that's not that's not a real thing. Do you have any other thoughts like I feel like we don't want to

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we can't it just we don't know and it's on it

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I just want to tap

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we don't use this enough we don't tap into your like

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somewhat dormant like beaten down by the job Nick PERSON's fandom like just how are how about this I'm going to flip it, Nick PERSON's fandom, like just how are, hey, how about this? I'm going to flip it on you. Dan PERSON, how are you doing? How are you feeling?

Speaker 3770.18s - 782.92s

I'm fine. I do think that if they lose game six, that game five performance is one of those that just, I don't want to say come back to bite you because, duh, but it becomes haunting in a sense where you were up six

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with 30 seconds or whatever it was left to go. But I'm pretty, look, the, I think what's, the people say you can't be a fan and cover the league,

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but like I do feel like I'm proof that you can because so many people are shocked to find out about my Nix roots,

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where they don't detect, if anything, I think Nix fans are generally more unhappy with my opinions about the Nix than any other like listeners of the of the podcast. So I don't tend to get as stressed out by the, it's in the moment I'll be stressed out. But like leading up to it, I'm not expending as much because I have,I have 29 other teams I need to think about Grant PERSON. Yeah.

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I got,

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I got 150 trades I need to come up with by 6 p.m. Eastern time.

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So it's just like.

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So you weren't like walking up and down the street, like breaking people's car windows when the NBA announced that Tyrese maxi traveled on the four point play?

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No, but only because I was sprinting while doing it.

Speaker 3835.32s - 843.46s

Right, right, right. That stuff never, even at the most irrational part of my fandom, and I'm not including like seven-year-old me that there's a story.

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I was watching a Nick's Heat game way back in the day and Alonzo morning had five fouls and this is I was young enough

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to not know the rule was six and so I was like why aren't the rest making him leave the game

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shoot these free throws so removed from that stage of my life I just I can't we had this

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discussion I can't harp on officiating and look that shit evens out then with whatever happened in Game 2 EVENT to whatever you think that they missed with the Tyree's Maxi Travel. This stuff just has a way of evening out.

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So it's, it is cool though to be invested in like the outcome of something.

Speaker 3877.96s - 891.5s

I root for chaos for the most part. But this is like one of those situations where you're genuinely torn. And you like you, this series deserved a game seven but is that good for my mental health who's to say yeah i don't i don't have a dog in the

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fight um which by the way no one should have dogs in fights yeah we need to retire we need to retire

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that phrase i'm not emotionally invested in either team so i want seven games uh so and this okay you're

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right we need to move on because there's a really good chance. This is all going to be useless.

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At Bed 365, we don't do ordinary. We believe that every sport should be epic. Every home run, every hit, every inning, every play. From the moments that are legendary to the ones that fly under the radar. See for yourself when you sign up today and get $150 in bonus bets when you bet just $5. Whatever the sport, whatever the moment. It's never ordinary at Bet365 ORG.21 plus only must be physically located in Virginia. Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler. Terms and conditions apply.

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And what's the, what else are we supposed to be talking about today?

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This is just, I.

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Wolf's Nuggets ORG.

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We got a preview.

Speaker 3945.84s - 948.84s

Should we talk about the Heat Celtics first? Like the teams that just kind of, oh,

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and also actually, okay, let's go here. Everybody,

Speaker 3952.16s - 1077.5s

the suspense is over. Can we talk about mass clippers since they're going to play again shortly? Yeah. What are your, I mean,I had actually more thoughts on this series now than I thought I was ever going to because it took me a while to get a hold of it. But I'm looking at the clippers and they just feel they feel broken. I don't know how this version of Luca PERSON will match up in a later round performance against OKC where they're going to have a bunch of different other things defensively to throw at him.But I'm just looking at the Clippers ORG. And James Hart PERSON has not been bad this series. He's been their best player. The absence of Kauai Leonard, Russell Westbrook PERSON has played very poorly. Paul George PERSON is by and large played very poorly. And I thought the Clippers ORG did a better job of trying to be more creative with getting himthe ball in game five. But like the Mavericks ORG defense just wasn't having it. Like Derek Jones Jr. did a great job on him all game. And then you're looking at the Mavs ORG offense, the counters they have to where the clippers have thrown some different things at them.But, you know, if they're going to, Donchich isn't hitting his threes right now, which is just mind melting to think about that the, that the Mavericks ORG are in this situation, despite Lucas PERSON shooting so poorly. But if you're going to play drop against Donchich PERSON,there's, okay, well, he has the mid-range game going then. And also, really, I know Daniel Gaffer's on some of this too, but Derek lively's floor navigation inside the half court is fucking incredible. And he has many, like, great moments against the clippers in game five. And then also just a Kyrie Irving PERSON, like the decision making here when the clippers are going to get two on the ball. And it's true of like Donchich, but like the Mavericks ORG sort of just making the right decision here.And yes, there's a level of will. Is Maxi Kleba always going to shoot as well from three? He did in game five. No, but they're, this is my roundabout way of saying, and I know that the clippers are missing Kauai and they had a hobbled Kauai for two games, which then throws game plan a field as well but the mavericks have shown that they can just win in more ways up against more variability than the clippers can right now that feels like my biggest takeaway

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yeah i think i have a similar one i really struck me in game five, where it just felt like both Paul George and James Hardin PERSON,

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just you, they, they didn't, it felt like they were running into a crowd when, on the rare

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occasions, they actually beat their guy and get into the lane. And it, it's a symptom of, I think the clippers just have too many guys that they sort of have to play that give the Mavericks the opportunity to like shut off what L.A. GPE wants to do. So like the two main examples are like you got to play Zubots PERSON because that guy like he's played really well and like he's important to what they're doing.PJ Tucker by the way got off the bench late in game five. I couldn't believe that.

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That was that was Tailu just the waving the wheat off the bench late in game five. I couldn't believe it. That was Ty Lou PERSON just waving the wheat, we're screwed.

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It's over flag. But less so or to a greater extent than Zubats, it's Westbrook PERSON. Like, Westbrook sort of has to play because of the defensive energy he's been bringing and just, you know, or the Clippers ORG believe that he has to play for those reasons. But the fact is he's getting parked in the corner and his guy is just in the lane waiting for Paul George or for James Harden or to like lean on Zubot PERSON so it's harder to dump the ball into him or throw him lobs or whatever.And it's just like the Mavs ORG don't have the same issue where like, you know, if you had like Exum is playing less for example and like maybe that's someone that you'd sag off of and do the same thing if you're the clippers but like there's still just the ability to have like Derek Jones Jr. PERSON is going to make enough threes to matter and he's going to ghost cut down the baseline and it's like there's just ways for all five of the Mavericks guys to force the clippers to sort of play honestly and Dallas ORG's defense isn't being held to the same account because the clippers just have no choice.I guess like you could take Westbrook PERSON out of the rotation entirely. And then it's like, well, I don't know, that's a lot more Amir ORG coffee. And it's a lot more Norm Powell PERSON. And maybe that works. Maybe we see that.

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There's, to be fair, it feels like there's, and he's been great in this series,

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there is room for even more, unless you're really concerned about managing minutes.

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Just play Terran's mad 40 minutes a game.

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Yeah, yeah. I just, I think one of the things we talked about coming into the series was, was the question of, do you believe the Mavericks late season defense, which was so good,is more real than the Clippers late season defense, which was so bad. I think, like, it's fairly clear that the Mavericks ORG defense, I think is like up for it.I think it, I don't know if it's, I don't know if it's the second or third best defense in the league or the best, which whatever date cut off you want to use, it, you know, fell into all those buckets. But it seems legit to me. And the fact that they kind of get to cheat a little bit and expose some of the weaknesses the clippers have without Kauai GPE, like it's just it's making it kind of an unfair fight even like look it's three two so it's not like anybody's getting crushed here but it's just really

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the simplest thing is and you said it is just like it's just harder for the clippers to get

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the kinds of shots they want and to match up defensively than it is uh in the case of the math so

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it's like it's just it replayoffs always reveal your weak links that's like that's what they do and then that's what's happening here.

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It's also kind of like if I told you that the Mavs by through game five were shooting under just this is just one way to like to frame what's happening. The Mast are shooting under 34% from three and the Clippers are at close to 40% from three. Would you predicted Dallas is up three to two in the series?

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I guess if you mean Kau wasn't playing. But even look the maps even said a good job was slowing part of one series? I guess if you knew Kauai GPE wasn't playing.

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But even look, the map's defense said a good job with slowing part of one of the Clippers' biggest strengths without Kauai GPE is the ability to play faster. And Dallas ORG's defense is just,

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it was able to slow them down in game five. And look, the Clippers ORG defense has had its moments in this series, but then when it's an offense isn't clicking, it makes life harder on their defense. I'm interested to see if Tloo ORG does make any sort of,I don't want to say extreme, but significant changes to his rotation. I just don't know if Kauai GPE is still going to be out. I would just juice up the Terrence PERSON man minutes. Like I would cut down the Russell Westbrook PERSON stuff, especially because if you think he gives you a level of defensive intensity,debatable, I think there's merit. There's also it could be hyperboized for sure. Like, he's not making enough shots.

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And he's like, he's caused, as you already talked about on the defense, the offense event, what he makes it easier on Dallas ORG's defense. I didn't want to ask you, though, as sort of a more macro topic of this.

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Does this series, unless the clippers come back and win, which they're not going to. So I don't care about that becoming dated. Print the receipt. If they come back and win, that's fine. They're not winning the series. Does it impact how they go about this offseason and all when you have?You've already extended Kauai GPE. But Paul George PERSON still doesn't sign an extension. James Hardin PERSON going into free agency. I tend to think that there's just more at stake or more variability when it comes to Paul George PERSON. I assume he will have the bigger, broader market than James Harden PERSON so that you'll, but if you're the clippers, I know you're going to go into the Inuit Dome next year,and you want these big names on your team to draw in fans. But I'm just sort of wondering, and this goes on, I guess I'm looking at it through the lens of Paul George PERSON specifically. Does this change from both sides? If you're Paul George PERSON, are you looking at this and saying, maybe I want to be somewhere else where one of my co-stars is more available or we have not just more depth, but like morestylistic variance in how we can play. And then if you're the clippers, are you sitting here and saying, well, do we want to give this guy the full boat, Max PERSON? Because I, I had said yes. And then I said yes again when it was, well, he has all the leverage. Kauai GPE's injured. Yet again, when it matters most, how are you not going to pay this dude? But then he's sort of playing like this where he's not even the number one option still. You've got him a point card.And you did look, credit the maths. But like PG's shot selection has not been great. And like it took them until what or him until what? Like game five to really really felt like he was working to get the ball.

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I still think he's a fantastic player. And the Clippers, you can't just lose PG PERSON for nothing. You need a broker, sign, and trade or get him to optade and move them somewhere, Philly, New York GPE, whatever.

Speaker 31450.28s - 1466.16s

But, like, is it more, is the outcome of this series impacting how you view the Clippers ORG off-season? I mean, it sounds like a dumb question, but they're so rigid and what they can actually do that it shouldn't, but I'm just like, this is a half decade of this stuff.

Speaker 21467.08s - 1489.16s

I just, I had the thought and eventually I, you know, sort of, I don't know. So my first thought watching a good stretch of the game of game five was like,man, it's really hard for Paul George PERSON to like get all the way to the basket. Like, and then I'm thinking like, he's kind of, he's in his mid 30s.And like, birthday as we record this is May 2nd. If I'm not mistaken.

Speaker 41489.16s - 1489.98s

So he's 34.

Speaker 11490.3s - 1490.88s

Is he 34?

Speaker 41491.12s - 1511.82s

Okay. So I had the thought of like, oh, I don't, I mean, forget the clippers.Like, are this, if this is the Sixers big potential off season target that they're going to max out like no questions asked. Like is that? Is he the best guy for that?Like, clearly he's declined in terms of like just pure athleticism and like the ability to generate the best kinds of shots.

Speaker 21512.58s - 1517.4s

Again, now part of that is like the way the Mavs ORG are able to defend the clippers. So like nobody's getting all the way.

Speaker 31517.4s - 1527.12s

Junior PERSON, but like sneaky critical free agency decision now where it's, they don't have his bird rights. Are they going to tap in their mid level to keep him? I don't know what his market will be like, but he feels like a dude that you just need to keep.

Speaker 21527.94s - 1599.5s

Oh, yeah, I think so too. But on George, it's just like, I think it should make not just the clippers, but almost anybody that's thinking about this is our guy, this is our big swing. And really, that's just the Sixers ORG.Yeah, I don't, I don't know. So if you're the clippers, like your alternatives are, because I think if you're the clippers, like your alternatives are because, because I think if you're the clippers, your number one choice would be we extend George at a reasonable number that clearly is not going to be the full boat max that he can get because that would have happened by now if the clippers were going to do that. And then you bring Hardin PERSON back and just hope that, I don't know, health turns around finally,which seems improbable. Like, what's their alternative? You said it. They can't just let him leave. Like, you can't just let Harden PERSON leave, I guess. Like, he's there because he intended to get a bunch of money.So, like, there's, there aren't a lot of, it's not like, these are kind of first world problems for the clippers because, like, they'll be pretty good if they bring all these guys back and they are motivated to do that because of the new arena. But like, it, I don't feel like, like, like going into next year, if they have George back on a new deal, hardened back, everybody basically they're like, I don't feel like you or I or I or anyone is going to put them in the top tier contender class.Like they sort of were if healthy this year.

Speaker 31599.82s - 1604.2s

This felt like their last last gasp in terms of building that goodwill.

Speaker 21604.32s - 1624.24s

Not to say that they couldn't catch lightning in a bottle, but they had that run for basically half the season where's, okay, they've arrived and then it's still found a way to fail. Right. Yeah.You can't have the arrival happen in January. Like if they could have played at that, whatever, the number we keep signing.

Speaker 31624.24s - 1625.18s

Doesn't Garvinham PERSON know it?

Speaker 21626.62s - 1647.78s

If they could play at that 26 and 5 or whatever it is, like starting in April, cool. Like, that would have been interesting. But it's just, yeah, I don't know. I guess it should change, you know, if when the Clippers ORG lose the series, it should probably change their like offseason plans to some extent, but like not in a fundamental way.

Speaker 31648.12s - 1727.02s

It can't. And it's you can't like Philly GPE. So the Philly GPE thing is interesting. But I'm asking I want to like is there a version of the clippers that could be better off if you were able to trade Paul George PERSON somehow, whether it's a sign and trade or an opt in and trade.And I'm going through the options. And it's just the Sixers can only send you picks and take Paul PERSON into their caps. Paul George PERSON in their cap-space. If you're the Sixers ORG, you don't want to do that necessarily because it's, well, then we're giving up cap-space and our assets. We were kind of hoping this could turn into multiple players.And if you go through the list of teams, he might want to play for, you would have to be prepared to accept picks and then try and either turn those into cost-controlled depth or turn around and make another trade, which, by the way, will still be hard because you're probably going, unless you're trading him to the Sixers, let's use the Knicks ORG as an example. Spoiler alert for a future podcast, everybody. But like, they're going to send out, not dollar for dollar, but like they'll have to send out like $47 million in salary to match the value of his player option if he offs in.So you're still going to deal with the second apron limitations in that scenario. I think you, I would run it back just because of the absence of other options. But at this point, just the no extension thing is weird. It's ominous. And this is such a weird, a bizarre, sour note for their season to probably end on it just leaves a

Speaker 01727.02s - 1733.44s

I don't know that I ever would have had a good taste in my like my every fiber of my being had they

Speaker 31733.44s - 1756.08s

bowed out in the first round of the playoffs but just the way every the quai injury the Paul george PERSON play some of the stuff from the like the Russell westbrook stuff who you know at this point he might want to pick up his player option rather than trying to parlay his early bird rights and do a bigger contract because I don't know why they would give him one. It's just a very, it's transcended fragility. And now it's just uncomfortable, I guess is what I'm saying.

Speaker 21756.24s - 1763.62s

It's hard to find, it's hard to see the upside. It's hard to see the version of this team that is different or better than the what we got this year.

Speaker 31763.98s - 1775.24s

Like, you know, he's getting to this point and where it's, you can envision them doing one of those regular season things again, but the opportunity cost of that is, well, Kauai GPE will probably not be available in the playoffs, apparently.Right.

Speaker 21775.84s - 1785.66s

Right. Yeah. If you, it almost is a bad sign if you have that kind of run for them during the regular season, because it's like,well, you know, you're not getting two of these. This is going to be a one off and then everyone's going to be too wiped out.

Speaker 31786.16s - 1802.72s

I saw, I can't remember who I was listening to what was talking about it. It was like, you just might need to load, manage and Bid and Kauai from now on where you, hey, you play in like 50, 55 games. And that's, I bet you Kauai GPE doesn't care. But like, so you're just saying, well, you're no longer allowed to try and win any individual awards unless those rules change.

Speaker 41803.02s - 1806.12s

You're just ruling you out of that discussion entirely every single year.

Speaker 21806.76s - 1809.1s

Not only that, but having the Clippers ORG tried that?

Speaker 31809.9s - 1811.82s

Like, Kauai GPE has been like, we've done that.

Speaker 21812s - 1843.16s

We've taken that approach. It didn't work. We've let him play a bunch. Also didn't work. And then just like, and then there's the tibodeau of it all where it's like, maybe you should just be running everybody into the ground all the time.And if they survive it, then you know they're going to be able to hold up in the playoffs. Like I just, there's not, the Clippers ORG have gone about this every way you can. Because like quietly and it doesn't feel like it sometimes like this group's been together for a while. Like they've had a lot of cracks at it and done a bunch of different stuff and nothing, nothing. They haven't, they haven't like figured out the code yet.

Speaker 31843.46s - 1856.4s

In a weird way, though, this series is validation for the James Harden PERSON trade itself, because this is why you want James Harder PERSON team because you can't guarantee that your other two stars are going to be available. I guess.

Speaker 21856.48s - 1858.56s

I mean, we're saying this after he was like two of 12.

Speaker 31858.86s - 1860.32s

Yeah, but he's had a good series.

Speaker 21860.6s - 1867.04s

He has had a good series. I mean, he won them. What did he win him game game two game one one. I can't remember now. These all runs together. He was two very, very, a good series. I mean, he won them. What did he win him game? Game two one. I can't remember now. These all runs together.

Speaker 31867.04s - 1876.64s

He was two very, very, very good games. Maybe you could like, and that's, you know, he's there. They're already out if they don't get the version of James Harder PERSON that they've got.

Speaker 21876.86s - 1892.5s

Yeah, they lose game one because he had 28 and he had like a stretch. I'm looking back at my notes now. He had six three, six straight threes that he made in game one. And that was a 12 point win. Like, you could say he won them game one. And six straight threes that he made in game one, and that was a 12-point win. Like, you could say he won them game one, and they hit all those floaters late in game four,I guess it was maybe. Maybe game three.

Speaker 11892.58s - 1923.6s

Anyway, at Bed 365, we don't do ordinary. We believe that every sport should be epic. Every home run, every hit, every inning, every play. From the moments that are legendary to the ones that fly under the radar. See for yourself when you sign up today and get $150 in bonus bets when you bet just $5. Whatever the sport, whatever the moment.It's never ordinary at Bet365 ORG. 21 plus only must be physically located in Virginia. Gambling problem call 1-800 gambler. Terms and conditions apply.

Speaker 21923.6s - 1985.14s

Are you ready to talk about cocaine for the soul? I sure am. We got Denver, Minnesota, about as different of an opponent for the wolves as you could imagine coming off of the Phoenix ORG sweep. I mean, we talked a little bit about Denver ORG last time around. Like, what did the Lakers series make you think about the nuggets? last time around, like, what did the Lakers series make you think about the Nuggets ORG?And, I mean, the wolves are going to test them with size, with perimeter defense, with, like, so many different, with a star that's like ascending as opposed to just, like, hanging on. I don't want to get, like, way out over our skis here, but I'm optimistic that Minnesota ORG is going to, like, it's more than a puncher's chance thing for them. And you can take that any direction you want. I think we still both agree that like you got to pick a title winner. It's Denver. But I think Minnesota ORG looks likeis kind of built in a way that you can just easily foresee some of the problems that the wolves can present for Denver ORG.

Speaker 31986.64s - 2095.82s

Yeah, I think Denver ORG would admit that. And I'm very curious to see how because you have Jane McDaniels PERSON, Nikol, Alexander Walker, Anthony Edwards, like those are all dudes that, Anthony Edwards might get tripped up in the two-man actions with Yokic and Murray PERSON. That's not really his strength. It's let me lock in, laser into this guy where there's not going to be a ton of otherstuff thrown my way. I just want to guard on ball independent of screens. But Nikol, Alexander Walker, Jaden McDaniels PERSON, like, those are guys that can very much frustrate Jamal Murray PERSON. And this is, Jamal Murray PERSON is just a postseason legend. There's no two game winners in the last series.Yeah. But he's dealing with the calf strain. Having time off is certainly going to help. Is it okay, though, if he's not Jamal Murray for 30 of his 40-something minutes to where you're kind of banking on these pockets of detonations from him? And then can you bank on them as readily against the wolves team that can throw size and length at you? I'm with you in a sense that I think the most popular pick is going to beTimberwolves or Nuggets in Seven EVENT, where everyone just sees this being a series that goes the distance. And we'll see, you know, I'm assuming even with Chris Finch, maybe not being on the sidelines for it, like I don't know that that would impact the team really at all.But like I'm so fascinated to see whether what Minnesota ORG does holds up when you get into sort of crunch time or whereas what the nuggets have done or they did a lot against the Lakers ORG is it felt like they had their stretches of, their minutes long stretches of brilliance and they knew that was enough separation to just win. And you saw it in the way that you could see, like,I'm not a fan of saying this all the time, but like Yokic and Murray PERSON visibly shifting their mindset at points.

Speaker 02095.82s - 2120.02s

Like you could just sense it during those games. And are the nuggets going to have more of a wire-to-wire approach to these games against a Wolves ORG team because they view them as more of a threat. I think Anthony Davis PERSON did a fantastic job insofar as you can. Like he made it difficult. It just didn't matter.Go look at more times where it felt like Yokic PERSON was struggling and then you look at his stat line at the end of the game. It's like, what the fuck are you supposed to do? Yeah.

Speaker 32120.1s - 2152.82s

And so I'm curious to see whether, not that the Nuggets don't respect the Lakers, but whether they take this series more seriously from the jump to where it's, well, we're not just banking on these second half runs or like separating ourselves in crunch time. And then how does that impact the Timberwolves ORG approach? And does it even matter because their defense can be like if they're able to generate turnovers and if you don't need to send, like, just the idea that you don't need to send two to the ball to guard Jamal Murray PERSON is a pretty big deal. Yeah.

Speaker 22153.24s - 2271.72s

I think a couple of things I'm interested in, you know, when you, so Minnesota ORG, we've, has the ability to put three, if you have Alexander Walker out there, just like elite one-on-one defenders on your best scores on the other team. And like, that's awesome against a team like Phoenix ORG who like sort of default to the type of offense that Denver ORG doesn't want to ever play, which is like stagnant ISO, like, I'm going to beat you head up. And that like the wolves are just like, couldn't be happier, I think,with like playing a team like that. I wonder how much those same elite wing slash combo forward perimeter defenders can have an impact against the Denver ORG offense that's just like hunting movement and the best shot for someone that's in an advantageous position as opposed to like everyone's standing still watching a one-on-one matchup. Like Denver's not going to like Denver does that and Murray PERSON will do that like if if all the other options they've tried on the possession didn't work. Whereas the sons are like that's choice number one and that plays into Minnesota ORG's hands.So that's something I'm interested in. I wonder and I wonder what you think like part of Rudy Gober'sbert's, you know, defensive excellence this year was like, man, that guy's moving well in space, right? So like you would say, I mean, I feel pretty good about him, like handling the Yokic Murray two-man game. But I mean, Anthony Davis PERSON probably is even better suited to that. And when it mattered, like the nuggets still got to what they wanted. I wonder what you think about either of those aspects,like the perimeter defenders in a different type of, you know, offensive matchup. And then like, is Gobert PERSON going to be capable of navigating all the back and forth stuff with Yokic and Murray PERSON? And then because you mentioned you're going to probably try to involve Edwards PERSON in that, too, just hoping that his defensive development is not,you know, yet at the level where in addition to lockdown ISO stuff,

Speaker 32271.72s - 2273.86s

he can also make good reasons.

Speaker 22274.22s - 2275.02s

Agree or disagree.

Speaker 32275.7s - 2302.34s

Do you think he's better served? And there's the height thing, so that might turn to this, but is he better served guarding Jamal Murray than he would be guarding Michael Porter Jr. just because the motion that Michael Porter Jr. PERSON is going to be in an addition tothen giving up that size is just not something that Edwards PERSON is known for, I don't want to say navigating well, but that's not his forte. He's not there yet. No, he's, yeah, all right. There's on ball

Speaker 22302.34s - 2309.12s

and off ball and he's got on ball like like, down. But off ball running around, like, talking through switches and things like that.

Speaker 32309.16s - 2310.1s

Like, that's another level.

Speaker 22310.22s - 2326.28s

I, my first thought was, like, who are you putting McDaniels PERSON on? Because I think that's the guy I want, you know, like in the full, like, clamp down position. And but then, like, so is McDaniels on Jamal Murray PERSON more? Everybody's going to pass everybody off, like, because the nuggets move so much.

Speaker 32326.58s - 2333.44s

But traditionally, hasn't McDaniels gotten the Murray PERSON assignment in this matchup? If I'm not mistaken, I guess listeners can correct me if I'm wrong.

Speaker 22333.74s - 2361.88s

But I can't remember. That was my first instinct is that's what I would want to do. Just to the length on Murray PERSON, who wants to shoot jump shots, generally speaking. Like, I like that a little. Like, not that you can hide Edwards on somebody else but likeyou could you could put Edwards PERSON on like Gordon PERSON I guess if you wanted to and if you're comfortable having cat guard Kevin Durant you should probably feel okay about him guarding MPJ PERSON like I just the matchups are going to be really interesting and like which ones

Speaker 32361.88s - 2372.78s

you don't think they're going to go the route of just kind of like Rudy for AG PERSON so that he can protect the pain and then you're going to throw towns at yokic

Speaker 22372.78s - 2396.04s

like they've done in the past yeah i don't know i don't know i think like the idea of because then because then my earlier question is kind of moot because you're then you're not really involving gobert in the two man stuff and you can just have him be a backline helper um yeah i i don't i don't know what you do i think well because we both think this series might be you know fairly long you're going to see a lot of

Speaker 32396.04s - 2401.68s

permutations probably i i do think what we see in this series from the timor's perspective is that

Speaker 22401.68s - 2411s

i don't know how i want to flesh out the final, like the fifth member of it, but this feels like a series in which, I mean, I think we know,

Speaker 32411.16s - 2431.92s

not that Connelly Towns PERSON will be marginalized, but like they're going to lean heavily on the Nikila Alexander Walker, Jaden McDaniels, Anthony Edwards, together minutes. And then you could flesh out from there just because of what against at least Denver ORG's, you know, if we go back and look at it, I know that starting can make it a little weird, but looking at what lineup of the Timberwolves plays the most against Denver's top five,

Speaker 42432.22s - 2446.26s

it feels like it might be the Conley-Gobert and then gnaw with Anthony Edwards and Jane McDaniels PERSON, rather than having Connoffey Towns PERSON in there just because of all the different things you can do defensively with that group versus towns.

Speaker 32446.26s - 2453.76s

Whereas again, he's defended like, yeah, he could still be slow, but like he's, his defense has probably been as good as it's been for his career most of this season.

Speaker 42454.46s - 2459.94s

So, but like that's like, I think that's kind of where I'm at,

Speaker 32460.14s - 2537.74s

where how they'll approach trying to gum up Denver ORG's offense. And maybe you'll see them take more lineup chances or vary them when Denver has more second unit heavy options there. So they're just, they have so many different levers to pull, which I think really bodes well.But Denver ORG's offense is such a machine from so many different levels and areas and aspects to where even you could say, okay, stash hide someone on Aaron Gordon it's like that dude the way he will move off the ball and it's just like abrupt it's not like constant motion but it's just like abrupt and then the way that he's able to even make plays with the ball where it's as a passer there it's it's going to I've been using this for his lot during the play stress test the wolves defense for sure and you know they're gonna another thing that I'm going to, I've been using this phrase a lot during the play stress test, the wolves defense for sure.And, you know, they're going to, another thing that I'm going to be interested to watch is, can they do enough on the offense event to make sure that their defense is set to not where it's okay, Denver ORG's not going to be a team that lives in transition, but you look at the stuff where they're getting into their sets maybe quicker and you're still in the half quarters, it's semi-transition. That's just going to be easier for Denver ORG to do if it's working off a wolf's squanderedoffensive possession, whether it's a turnover, miss shot, whatever.

Speaker 22538.28s - 2628.72s

Yeah, I'm glad you went there. I just wonder what Minnesota can do offensively. That's going to really concern Denver ORG. Like, or that's going to be like, we can go to this well over and over. We're going to get good shots.Like, that's just kind of a macro take on the, on the wolves because their offense was of, of either side of the floor. Their offense was the relatively weaker one during this season. And like,I think a lot of the thinking going into the Phoenix ORG game and the reason that Phoenix was so Phoenix series and the reason Phoenix was so good against Minnesota ORG during the year was like, you know, the wolves just didn't have enough offensive consistency or like enough stuff to go to, to, you know, to really, I guess to just keep up with what Phoenix ORG was able to do like in a, you know, rock fight type of a game if it came to that. I struggled beyond like Edwards PERSON just being great in an individual way.Where's Minnesota ORG going to like, we need a bucket? Like what sets are we running? Like who are we attacking on Denver ORG? Like how are we scoring? And like that's kind of an unanswerable question because it's been one thatthe wolves haven't really successfully answered all season because their offense just wasn't that good. You know, it used to be like, oh, we're going to get Yokic PERSON involved in as many pick and roll as possible and make him move. And we may see that. But I just, I struggle to find a clear, like, lifeline offensively for Minnesota ORG that doesn'tinvolve Edwards PERSON, you know, taking even a further step forward as like, well,

Speaker 32631.46s - 2703.64s

this guy is good enough on his own to be. I do think so if you have what could help them is so Jane McDaniels PERSON just attacking off the dribble more in that first round series. If the nuggets are going to give him the same type of runway, that's something you can hope persist. And there's also, we can't forget about Carthetowns PERSON who is, I don't know if Iwould call him wonderfully chaotic, but he's definitely enjoyably chaotic to where it's like in the Sun ORG series, you end up with, you know, a small on you, but you're going to settle for a three-pointer. You end up going up against, you know, Kevin Durant PERSON and it's, oh, I'm going to try and like maybe drive and settle there. But then there's also times where he will follow it all the way to the basket.So his driving game, I think, will be super important to Minnesota ORG's offense. Not that Denver ORG's going to give him room, but if they, if there's switches or if there's a mismatch, is he going to be able to punish that, not just throw Carl Anthony Towns PERSON in the post, which is just not a huge part of his game anymore. It's, oh, can he attack, like get by these, like if he has someone who's smaller on him,try and punish them by getting it's not these blazing fast drives, even though he does have that speed, but it's being a little bit more physical with that. And so he, I still think he will do a better job. It feels like of maybe getting rid of the ball.Sometimes he'll throw it to people that don't exist.

Speaker 42704.04s - 2724.2s

But I really read the matchups that he's going to have and the space that he's going to have and then make the right decision in terms of how to attack, whether it is launching for a three, or this is one I need to stop and take a jumper, this is one I need to try and follow through to get all the way to the basket, because that is their second offensive lifeline. Carleton is still just an incredible offensive player.

Speaker 32724.78s - 2794.72s

And I think that people forget that. The meniscus injury that, of course, you know, derailed part of his season. Then he comes back. He doesn't look super right. And again, he had such a weird, I'd call it a weird series against Phoenix ORG. But then you go back and you look at the numbers.And it's, all right, well, Carnathie Towns average 19 points a game and shot, you know, 52.9% from three. I'd probably like to see that volume come up. Like Minnesota's not the super high volume three point shooting team, but I think they need that volume against a Denver ORG team that also, while they might not be winning the three point bat on a night-to-night basis,they could just be so lethal in the half court that there are going to be nice or your defense just isn't enough. And so can you offset any of that variance and separation by getting up more of your own threes just because when I look at the wolves and you think of, when you think of the nuggets, they have at least guys you can envision as caps lock shooters, where it's Michael Porter Jr., Jamal Murray PERSON.Yokic PERSON needs to take more threes, but he will take them. And then Kent Tavis PERSON call lo, not shooting well right now, but we know that should normalize. When you think about that for the wolves, Anthony Edwards has the volume. Like you don't consider him a caps lock shooter. And he was, look, he shot the hell out of the ball,

Speaker 42795.08s - 2814.52s

44% in round one. There's really just Carl Anthony Towns PERSON. And it's, to me, it's just a little, not uncomfortable, but it's, I find it bizarre when you look at it. It's, okay, well, like, Nikil Alexander Walker PERSON is just getting up way more threes thanConnathy Towns PERSON right now. And ditto for Mike Connolly PERSON. And Towns average fewer minutes in round one than they did.

Speaker 32814.52s - 2826.82s

But still, that's just like he, to me, when you're to, this is my long wind way of trying to answer your question, your concern, the answer needs to be Carl Anthony Towns PERSON. I don't know if it necessarily will be.

Speaker 42827.48s - 2828.74s

Yeah, it has to be.

Speaker 32828.9s - 2840.66s

Otherwise. Yeah. Because if it's not going to be him, I did just mention Jane McDaniels PERSON and what he was able to do. I'm sure he will have that type of space. Like he's been on a like a shooting seesaw all season.

Speaker 02840.66s - 2845.68s

And so even if he gets the threes up or if he's attacking off the dribble, is that something

Speaker 42845.68s - 2847.38s

you call bankable?

Speaker 02848.1s - 2848.76s

And no,

Speaker 32848.82s - 2850.06s

it's not with Jay Lake Daniels PERSON.

Speaker 02850.08s - 2874.02s

And even Nas Reid saw his role diminish a little bit in round one. Does this become a Nas Reid PERSON series? Because while the nuggets are big, I think Nas Reid PERSON is versatile enough to where you consider him sort of a fringe wing. It's not sort of, we saw Phoenix ORG downsize in a way that could marginalize him.And Denver ORG won't do that. But at the same time, the way they play with size is not the way other team plays with size because there's nothing traditional about the size that they play.

Speaker 12874.32s - 2904.76s

At Bed 365, we don't do ordinary. We believe that every sport should be epic. Every home run, every hit, every inning, every play. From the moments that are legendary to the ones that fly under the radar. See for yourself when you sign up today and get $150 in bonus bets when you bet just $5. Whatever the sport, whatever the moment.It's never ordinary at Bet365 ORG. 21 plus only must be physically located in Virginia. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler. Terms and conditions apply.

Speaker 22905.5s - 2958.66s

Yeah, I think, yeah, it's just like one of the things you would do typically as Minnesota ORG when your offense is just not at the level of your opponent is you'd shoot more threes and make it a higher variance game. And like, it's other than cat, there's nobody you feel great about that strategy with, right? Like, that's, it's just another way. Yeah, I, if it goes bad for the wolves, it might just be because they sort of haveto play the nuggets on more like even terms and they just can't get the three point volume or I can't get enough of it from anybody that is actually going to make them, you know. So like, I guess, I guess what I would say is I can imagine like one or two like pretty ugly blowouts in favor of Denver because the because the nuggets are just like, you know, happy with if Minnesota goes high variance and tries to get up a bunch of threes and just can't

Speaker 42958.66s - 2963.46s

hit them. Like, you know, that that could that's one way I could see some games swinging in this

Speaker 32963.46s - 3095.9s

series. I don't know. You got anything else? I have two things that are relatively quick. And I feel like we focused a lot of more wolves. We mentioned Michael Porter Jr. PERSON in our previous podcast, if he's going to continue to shoot like this, that can almost alleviate any concern you have about Jamal Murray's PERSON calf strainor the nuggets and this whole act of, well, like, we're fine going in a half time without the lead and we'll just come back because the way that he's playing. The other thing, too, is, and I understand these will not be a huge sample size because the sample size on this for the entire Lakers series, so five games, with 71 possessionsplayed outside of garbage time without Nicole Yokic PERSON. What is going to happen during the eight minutes or so per game that he is on the bench? And specifically against this Timberwolves ORG team, are they better built than most to abuse the nuggets during those minutes? Because you're going to default. I wouldn't think it'll be like a D'Andre Jordan PERSON series.You're going to stick with your Aaron Gordon at the five model. Those lineups against the Lakers ORG ranked in the zero-th percentile of offensive efficiency. Life's not going to get any easier against the wolves. And so how does that end up looking for because that's not, when you have Aaron Gordon at the five, it can be effective, but that's not the best lineups they're throwing out there. It's, you know, and even just whatever lineup you want to see with it,it's probably going to be Gordon, Watson, Brown, Murray PERSON, maybe KCP's in there. Do you sprinkle a little bit of Michael Porter Jr. PERSON in there? If it is any version of that, and I'll go on a limb and say just because of the way they like to use KCP and Yokish PRODUCT together, that their most used non-yokic lineup will be Gordon, Porter, Watson, Brown, and Murray PERSON. That's my prediction. That's not a lineup that's built to generate all these mismatches on offense.And so you're not going to scare the wolves, as my point, into changing the way that they have played all season. I'm not saying the entire game can shift on that way. But I do think this is going to be a series for the Nuggets ORG where it could get harder, a lot harder to, I don't even want to say survive,but withstand less damage during the non-yokage minutes. Yeah,

Speaker 23096.1s - 3179.72s

I would, my head went to, so if you've got Gordon PERSON at center, you sort of must have Edwards in the game at that point for the wolves because I think you want to call up Gordon PERSON's guy and like kind of weirdly involve him in screening action. Gordon I think is a phenomenal like five position isolation defender. So if they switch it and you get Gordon on Edwards like first of all, sign me up.I cannot be more excited for an individual matchup than that. But you pull Gordon PERSON out of the lane. Then like if you're, I guess, disciplined about things and Edwards PERSON does do as good of a job getting off the ball at the right times as you did in the first round, like then there's no room protection there and you don't have to play thehigh variance game and you might be able to get some paint points. You might be able to get some cutters, some other side pick and rolls as the ball swings. Like that is I'm just echoing your point. Like those are obviously the minutes where I would be deliberately making sure I had Edwards on when Yokic PERSON was off. Just because like the advantage you create there potentially is like is just so much bigger than.And it look, Edwards might just play 45 minutes and Yokic PERSON might too. So like I don't know how much of a swing this can have. But if you're in Minnesota's position, those marginal advantages, even if it's a minute or two per game, like, you have to capitalize on those. Because I do just think generally speaking, it's hard for you to find like ways through offensively.

Speaker 33180.76s - 3191.72s

So, so yeah, I think that's a key thing. Do you have any concerns about how the Nuggets will ultimately defend Anthony Edwards? I think KCP is clearly a tougher matchup than anything Phoenix ORG could throw at him.

Speaker 43191.96s - 3195.68s

But during the regular season, and the sample is actually quite extensive,

Speaker 33196.22s - 3263.1s

the Wolves average is a team 1.3, 2 points per possession when KCP defended Anthony Edwards. And that's not, I'm not even, it's not just Anthony Edwards scoring. It's for the entire team. And you have, I think KCP is still one of the more underappreciated defenders in the league. But that is something just because of how physical Anthony Edwards and explosive he could be. I thought KCP had a heck of a defensive series against the Lakers ORG.I'm just wondering, you know, do you get to a point where, okay, if you put Denver ORG's defense, I think Denver ORG's defense is probably most vulnerable when it's put in rotation. And I'm now wondering, I don't, like, there was a level of concession it felt like in the Lakers series where that was just, okay, like whatever, we know LeBron PERSON exists. Like, Anthony Edwards might be built to create a level of chaos that they didn't have to deal with in the Lakers ORG series. And so it's, you know, you can't really pull the, like, do we have Gordon PERSON go at him from the jump?Or are they going to go out of their way to make sure that Gordon PERSON isn't involved in the, like the two where it's, you know, if you're going to have someone cream for Edwards, it's anybody but who Gordon is defending.

Speaker 23263.1s - 3343.88s

I think that's right. I think, you know, one one big like swing or pivot point in the series could be because you don't want Yokic, if you if you have Edwards PERSON on the ball and the wolves are going to just set high screens for him, you really don't want Yokic PERSON being involved in that to be in the drop with with, with, with Edwards having a head of steam to either go right at him or pull up and so then it's like well you probably just got to put two on the ball and get it out of edward's hands and then it's like i mean is go rudy gobert catching the ball on the short roll and having to make a decision or score is that going to be like just why the wolves can't get anything done?You know, because I think if you're Denver ORG, you want as many of those situations as you can get where one, Edwards no longer has the ball and two, Rudy Gobert PERSON has it kind of on the move, having to like score or make a decision.Like that's, but then, you know, again, you don't have to have go. Like there's so many,that's going to be a really interesting back and forth. It's like how do, how does Denver make it so that rudy gobert is having to be like a big factor offensively and then how do the nuggets move bodies around so that they can talk like there's just that i think is going to be the a huge like pivot point i keep saying that but in the series is like what what are you

Speaker 03343.88s - 3349.92s

going to make rudy go bear have to do offensively if you're Denver ORG? And how much, how extensively can you

Speaker 33349.92s - 3409.16s

exploit that? And I think maybe one problem with Denver ORG is that if you do try to increase your versatility or defensive aggression from a talent perspective, where it's, well, we can play Peyton Watson or Christian Brown. I actually, I think Christian Brown did okay on Anthony Edwards this year. I probably didn't see enough of it. And by the way, as hosts of the best national NBA ORG podcast in the business, look at the charts. We're higher than number one.I don't even know how that works out. I want to implore fans. We're not going to read too much into what happened during the regular season. It's not just a matter of, okay, well, who was available. The good teams are just changing all the stuff that they do in the playoffs anyway. And so you can sit here and tell me, I mean, this is different because they split the seasonseries this year. But it's, I don't want to cite like these regular season numbers. I'm just anecdotally, you could say, I felt like to me Christian Brown PERSON held up okay against Anthony Edwards. Anything you do, not only is it one, you get into the manner of, okay, well, if we're playing Brown PERSON with a bunch of starters, who are we pulling?

Speaker 43409.74s - 3414.72s

And then it's, you're making an offensive concession there, no matter whether it's Peyton

Speaker 33414.72s - 3438.94s

whether it's Brown. If you're pulling Michael Porter Jr., certainly. If you're pulling Aaron Gordon, okay, maybe not, but you're probably hurting your defense in that regard. I would be interested, though, because you mentioned maybe mirroring Edwards' minutes to AG at the five, making sure he's on the court during those stints. I think I'm absolutely making sure that maybe both Watson and because if your offense isn't going to be even close to elite or average without Yokich anyway,

Speaker 43439.26s - 3444.12s

I might just make sure that both of those guys are on the court then so we have all these different types of looks to throw.

Speaker 33444.56s - 3445.52s

Yeah, Edwards. I think to your point, like, Malone does Mike Malone does not like to play Brown PERSON. that both of those guys are on the court dens that we have all these different types of looks to throw. Yeah.

Speaker 23446.78s - 3461.2s

I think to your point, like Malone does Mike Malone does not like to play Brown and Watson PERSON together because of the offensive issues it creates. But I think that's a, that's a really interesting idea of like, well, we know we're going to get,we know we aren't going to score without Yokic PERSON. So we may as well just over index on defense.

Speaker 33461.4s - 3462.3s

Let's lean into it.

Speaker 23462.64s - 3464.26s

Get some DeAndre Jordan PERSON in there.

Speaker 33464.56s - 3464.8s

Yeah,

Speaker 23464.9s - 3499.74s

whatever. Hope the three minutes you play without Yokic are like four to two Minnesota ORG as opposed to like, you know, 10 to 4 like just keep it slow, keep it ugly, let that clock, like that kind of thing. That's an interesting way to go.Again, it's, I think this is a long series. As you, if you had to say, I mean, it's kind of obvious because we're just so in the bag for Denver ORG and have been all along. But like, I don't see the way that this is a shorter series that Minnesota ORG wins. Like I just, it's, you know, we'll know more after game one and we see some matchups. But like, it's just.

Speaker 33500.06s - 3506.16s

I think if it's a shorter series, it's that Minnesota wins. I would look at, okay, well, what is Murray PERSON doing?

Speaker 03506.58s - 3507.54s

How is that calf?

Speaker 23507.54s - 3554.12s

And then did Denver's three-point shooting just never normalized? Because you go back and look at the series numbers against the Lakers ORG. Michael Porter Jr. shot 20 or 41 from 3. That dude is ridiculous. Murray, 29.4%. KCP, 28.6%.Yokic, 33.3%. Reggie Jackson, 30.8%. Peyton, 30%. Aaron Gordon, one of 10. So 10%. So I think, you look at Christian Brown PERSON, barely took any.He was 0 of 9 in that series. So just Justin Holiday, one of 9. I didn't realize Justin Holliday played that many minutes to launch 9 3-pointers in that series. So I just, that would be,that is the, not the recipe, because I don't think the Wolos PERSON and just be like, we're going to make sure that Denver doesn't make their threes. Other teams to do that.

Speaker 33555.04s - 3572.36s

But that would be the, okay, Murray PERSON doesn't have a good series because of the calf, not able to create the separation or hit the difficult jumpers that he was still hitting by the end of the Lakers ORG series when it matters. And Denver overall, their three point shooting kind of neverprogressed to where we know it could be with with the talent that they have on hand yeah

Speaker 23572.36s - 3584.84s

to that end who you got I was just gonna say Denver ORG in seven I'm gonna go Denver in six

Speaker 33584.84s - 3585.32s

I think there is I have anyone who's listened knows that I respect the hell out of seven. I'm going to go Denver in six.

Speaker 23589.92s - 3590.94s

I think there is, I have anyone who's listened knows that I respect the hell out of what the wolves was done this year.

Speaker 33591.62s - 3592.58s

And I could see this.

Speaker 23592.66s - 3593.64s

I want it to go seven.

Speaker 33593.7s - 3594.66s

I'll be rooting for seven.

Speaker 23595.2s - 3599.3s

I still just think that we're underestimating the gear that the nuggets are able to hit.

Speaker 33599.46s - 3650.34s

And I'm not going to keep coming back to this well, but there is a very dynastic era warriors vibes to them understanding that we only need to play our peak basketball for minutes at a time to create separation. You know what? If we need to elongate, extrapolate those stretches, we will. And I don't like boiling it down to like, they will flip a switch. That's not what I'm saying this is. And I think that Minnesota ORG's defense could really gum up the works that they tried.But no defense has ever fully gummed up the works. Like look at what just happened in the Laker ORG series where you had all these things going your way and the nuggets were just still able to get what they needed during the highest leverage of moments. And you see the shifted mindset from Yokic PERSON at points. I think this is just going to be a series where we see more peak nuggets for longerstretches is basically what we're getting at.

Speaker 43650.46s - 3652.82s

And that's just not offensively.

Speaker 33653.18s - 3667.66s

This gets into a fight of which team can stop the others' offense more. As much respect as I have for Minnesota ORG's defense, the answer is not Minnesota. Just because Denver ORG's offense is a fucking killer. Yeah.

Speaker 23668.02s - 3708.22s

I think I agree generally with that. And it's kind of just like, I think it's a testament to Minnesota ORG that not only is it fair peak levels offensively more often, but like it, it will have to because it's not, it's not like the Lakers ORG series where you know all the perimeter shooting is going cold for long stretches and you can get away i think i think i think i think Denver ORG's going to have to bring pretty close to like it's its best stuff most of the time to to to beat thewolves which is like that's exciting because that just that's not the case against the lakers obviously like the lakers just beat them once in a dozen tries or whatever it is. What was your hesitation?

Speaker 33708.42s - 3711.5s

Were you thinking about Wolves in seven or were you trying to go Nuggets and Six ORG?

Speaker 23711.5s - 3741.14s

No, if I were going any other direction, it would have been Denver and Six ORG probably. I just, I want to give the wolves credit. And the more I think about it, the more I am convinced that like Minnesota ORG has a couple elements, the defense being legit and Edwards PERSON kind of being someone that there might not be a solution for a game or two, uh, that that, you know, they could push them all the way. But you're like forced to force to choose an alternative. It'd be Denver and six probably. I can't get all the way

Speaker 33741.14s - 3748.56s

there with Minnesota ORG. And I'm not trying to give out the, you know, out of boys here. It would, it would not shock me though if the Timberwolves ORG won this series.

Speaker 43748.92s - 3753.52s

I'm picking the nuggets in six. If you want me to pick them in seven, it would just would not surprise me if the wolves won this series.

Speaker 33753.6s - 3776.74s

I think that's the best form of praise I can give is that I consider the nuggets head and shoulders above basically everyone. But because of the way they match up and what Minnesota ORG is done specifically on defense this year, what Anthony Edwards is doing on offense in general, if you told me that it's Timberwolves and Six ORG,and you told me everyone on Denver ORG was healthy, it'd probably be a little, it just wouldn't surprise me. Well,

Speaker 23776.78s - 3798s

and maybe this is the best add-a-boy for Minnesota ORG overall. It's like if it were OKC GPE, I'd feel more confident about Denver ORG. If it were the Clippers or the Mavs, I'd feel more confident about Denver ORG. If it were the clippers or the Mavs, I'd definitely feel more confident about Denver. And that's like, I don't know in a vacuum where I'd rank all those other teams, you know, especially OKC versus Minnesota, but like for purposes of playing the nuggets,

Speaker 33798.14s - 3887.06s

Minnesota is the best you're going to do in the West LOC. I think that's pretty clear. Let's talk some heat Celtics ORG. I feel like we should start with the Celtics ORG just because I don't, like, this team now to me, and this is coming from someone who would still pick the nuggets in a series if they two-minute in the finals. How do you beat the Celtics ORG?Is it just you need to have the night that the heat had in game two where you win the three-point, you just hit so many threes that that's how they have, Christop's Portuguese LANGUAGE is out right now. And they just have so many different things that they're able to throw at you. And the ability to just recognize or how to figure meander their way to mismatches that they want. It's not just, well, like Jason Tainham or Jalen Brown will go hunting.Like Al Horford PERSON will create those things for his teammates to get there. I'm just watching the Celtics ORG, and I know they should have probably taking care of the heat sooner, but what they did to them over the latter half of that series where they just absolutely murdered them, it made me a bigger believer, and it probably shouldn't have because it was that version of the heat. Like, what are you supposed to do with this team?I just, I, I, if they, I will say this because of what else is happening in the East as we record this, whether they end up facing the Knicks or the Sixers ORG or the Bucks or the Pacers in the conference finals, if they do not come out of the Eastern Conference ORG, I'm not trying to take away anything that these other teams might be capable of doing. It's, it's a huge upset. There's just,

Speaker 43887.18s - 3892.42s

I don't know how you talk about which team right now is actually healthy enough

Speaker 33892.42s - 3895.18s

and built to compete with the Celtics in the East LOC.

Speaker 23895.68s - 3938.48s

That's the thing like if, is you're projecting matchups for Boston ORG, it's like, well, okay, either they're going to face somebody that's got a hobbled star or they're going to face a team, which they will next round,that's just like hasn't done anything, you know, whether it's, right? Like, too, by the way, like awesome defenses. So that's like, okay, well, they can maybe slum. It's just like, maybe I think it's, I don't know. I don't know how much, how many calories we want to burn on, on like, oh my God, Boston's really good. Like, they proved it all year. I do think the Porzingisinjury takes away, because let's say, among other things, like one of the main differences

Speaker 43938.48s - 3949.22s

that elevated Boston this year was, was the Porzingis PERSON piece. Like the, he's kind of the thing that keeps them from being their worst selves,

Speaker 23949.22s - 4067.36s

which is the like pound the dribble, maybe one pass, two passes around the perimeter. We don't pierce the paint. We're hunting jumpers. Like that's when you're criticizing the Celtics ORG, like it's that offense that like is just has the bull's eye on it. And Porzingis PERSON's ability to just post up switches is just enough of a new wrinkle that it's like,okay, this is an elevating factor for Boston ORG. And if you don't have him, then I think there's more danger of Boston ORG reverting to, it's what we've all hated so much about the Celtics in the last few years, how things gum up offensively and there's just not. Now, look, like having frigging Derek White PERSON able to just make,you know, five threes a game and score 38 and just be, look like an all star, like that's different. And Drew Holiday PERSON adds another element. But like,there's a scenario where Boston without Porzingis PERSON looks a little too much like its past versions of itself, which like, by the way, made the finals finals and it's still really, really good. But if you're just trying to punch holes, like, I think the Porzingus PERSON injury, maybe other than Tatum, is the most significant for purposes of the playoffs that you could have on Boston ORG's roster.So like, that's something. Is Cleveland or Orlando going to be the team to exploit that and is,, you know, New York, indie Milwaukee, Philly GPE capable of exploiting that in the conference finals? Like, I don't know. Probably not. But it does like, based on how they played against the heat is like this team is unbeatable. Again, the heat were not like a complete team.But I think the Porzingis PERSON thing is, is, and like he's going to miss at least the next series it sounds like from all the reporting. So it's and like who knows how he'll fare when he's back. Like he always, it's like, it's not like the guy comes back and he's immediately like, okay, we're good. It's everything's the same.It's like, well, there's a ramp up and re-injury risk and all the other stuff. It's, it's worth like monitoring if you're trying to find reasons to like not just pick the Celtics ORG to roll through everybody.

Speaker 34068.06s - 4084.54s

The only question I have is Derek White, the max he can get in the first year of an extension is 27.4 million. If you're the Celtics, I know they have their second year, you're offering it. Are you signing it to Eric White PERSON? I know they have their second. You're offering it. Are you signing it to Eric White PERSON?

Speaker 24088.24s - 4089.6s

I'm very happy in Boston ORG.

Speaker 34089.8s - 4090.64s

I think I'm signing it.

Speaker 24090.76s - 4092.26s

I want to be there. How about that?

Speaker 34092.84s - 4108.24s

I mean, it's a number where it's borderline, where could he go on the open market next summer in 2025 and get more? Sure, will the situation be as comfortable, or as ideal?Maybe not.

Speaker 44108.52s - 4112.26s

So I think if they give him like the actual max extension,

Speaker 04112.38s - 4116.78s

I think what is it, four years and 123 is what would end up being total, like his deal.

Speaker 34117.2s - 4119.74s

I think you would probably sign it. You better offer it,

Speaker 24119.86s - 4121.94s

is what I'm going to say. That dude is my God.

Speaker 34122.4s - 4122.7s

Yeah.

Speaker 24123.5s - 4142.96s

It will feel like, it's right on the border of like, oh, that's what a screaming deal for Boston ORG. If they get him at his absolute max, they can extend him for. What a long way we've come with Derek White PERSON. I feel like,have you always loved Derek White PERSON? Even like Spurs Derek White PERSON, he was just such a popular like, oh, this guy, you don't know about this guy. He's really good.

Speaker 34143.12s - 4151.14s

But then he exceeded even that. Way back when that was one of the gauges for whether you watched or new basketball was,

Speaker 44151.22s - 4157.84s

oh, do you appreciate Derek White PERSON when he's out there sometimes putting up single digits, but understanding what he does. Yeah.

Speaker 24158.16s - 4196.02s

And then like, also, by the way, the Spurs ORG did not sufficiently appreciate him because they should never have traded him. Yeah, he's his level up has really been something. He's another guy. It's like, why didn't, how did I think like Kobe White and Alpern Schengoon PERSON and like Jonathan Kaminga?And I ultimately picked Jalen Williams, but like, man, Derek White PERSON got a lot better. That guy's just there's, we need like a, you know what we need an all most improved team. How about that? That's what we should do. Let's change what we need an all most improved team. How about that? That's what we should do. Let's change the award. We do all NBA ORG and all defense.What's the difference? All rookie. We got all everything. We need all most improved. Participation trophies for everybody. How about that?

Speaker 34197.12s - 4260.82s

So they're in their offseason. I was laughing at Eric's Bolstra PERSON saying that he was like, I'm probably not going to watch any other Boston's games this year, but they're fucking wild is basically what he said. So here's one thing. It's more of a where they go from here.And I saw a lot of people, it starts with Jimmy Butler PERSON, who's extension eligible. I saw a lot of people up in arms about, well, if he's signing the extension,why are you going to commit so much money to him? There's like a scenario where it's the way it's being framed, the extension that he apparently wants is he would decline his player option and sign a two year deal. And so I saw people freaking out about the numbers. If he goes that route, he gets like a $2 million raise off of his player option and then an additional season. And so like you're not like it's, I understand he's old and it would take him through as I think is his age 37 season.If you don't want to extend them, I get it. But let's not pretend that like, well, they give him an extension is entirely ruining their future. And it's like,just like kind of extending it by a year basically.

Speaker 24261.12s - 4310.72s

And he can sign a one year extension too, by the way, like if you really wanted to do that. Like there's, yeah, I, like if you really wanted to do that. Like there's, yeah, I, I, it's hard to avoid thinking like, man, you know, Butler's 35, like, it is a mistake to extend someone at that.But it's like, what else are you doing if you're the heat? Are you trading Jimmy Butler PERSON? Like, I don't, it's hard to imagine that. The other guy, Bam out of bio is actually like half of the heat's rotation is extension eligible. But bam is the no-brainer. You just, if he's willing to do it, you max extend him for, I think he could do three more years.And then like, he's like the cover for if Butler really does decline, whether he gets an extension or not. You still have Bam PERSON in the middle and your floor is like pretty high if he's in there. But that's like the no-brainer. I think the heat, if anything, go to him first and say like, you still have BAM in the middle and your floor is like pretty high if he's in there. But that's like the no brainer. I think the heat, if anything, go to him first and say like, you're our top priority.

Speaker 34311.38s - 4330.74s

They're just in a weird spot though when you're trying to look at how they move forward. So they're basically at the assuming Kevin Love PERSON picks up his player option. I'm assuming they're going to guarantee the contract for Orlando Robinson PERSON. They're going to be basically at the first apron inside $5 million of it.

Speaker 44330.74s - 4333.14s

And that's without thinking about,

Speaker 34333.14s - 4434.54s

well, are we going to pay Hayward Highsmith PERSON? And I know that sounds like Hayward PERSON. I know his name is Haywood Highsmith PERSON. Thank you, everybody.And Caleb Martin PERSON, by the way, who I would expect to decline his player option. And so it's like, you might be limited in terms of, everyone's talking about the Hiko and Star Hunting PERSON now.You gave up a 2027 first round pick for Terry Rozier PERSON. So now you have like one less, one fewer first round pick to offer. And okay, you have some salary matching tools, but Tyler Hero PERSON,Terry Rozier PERSON, and Duncan Robinson PERSON, where if you're trying to take back a big number, those are the combination, like that's the combination of three players that you need to move. And what's the big name that you feel comfortable with?You know, would you feel comfortable with going out and getting Donvin Mitchell PERSON? Yeah, sure, probably, but what the fuck is the offer to Cleveland ORG? It's just, it's Terry Rozier and Duncan Robinson PERSON,and then you need to take back other money and you're giving them picks. And then how much better is your team where, okay, well, we just lost one of our better. I know Douglas Robinson's PERSON dealing, what was it back stuff during the postseason, but we lost one of our best floor spacers and someone who's improved a great deal.We lost another good floor space for Terry Rozier, bringing in Donovan Mitchell PERSON. I'm going to frame it this way. They're limited in what they could do. You should try and keep Caleb Martin PERSON, but are they willing to pay through the teeth for this team? I don't know if Mickey Harrison PERSON is going to feel that way. Is it more likely then that you have to pick one of two?There's no middle ground where they just run it back. You have to choose one of these. Is it more likely that they acquire a big name, whether it's a Donovan Mitchell PERSON. I've seen people float, Tray Young PERSON, whatever you have. And they have Jaime Hawkes PERSON.If they really want to get nasty, I don't know who the player. If Kevin Durant requests a trade and the heat want to get involved on that, is it more likely that the heat acquire a star or that they trade Jimmy Butler this offseason?

Speaker 24435.22s - 4440.24s

Acquire. I think it's just that's the heat's wiring. And like you mentioned Hawkes.

Speaker 44440.36s - 4459.66s

I think like Yovic PERSON showed enough in the playoffs and down the stretch of the regular season to be like, all right, that's not just a throw in necessarily. Like you so you could give somebody two young players with him and between him and Hawkes. I don't think Terry Rozier's contract is a 26 or 20, 20, 20, almost 25 next year, you're 26 year after.

Speaker 34460.1s - 4485.36s

He's one of the, I just don't understand what the point of negotiating the final year of his deal was, where it's $24.9 million of his salary is guaranteed. His entire salary for 25, 26 is 26.6. I just, I need to understand what the logic is behind like, well, like, if we waive him, we save $1.5 million. I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 24485.36s - 4511s

I don't know. But he, I mean, even Hero like 29, 31, 33 or his last next three years, like, that's a little more than I want to be paying Tyler Hero PERSON. I think given the injury stuff and given the kind of the one way game. But like, think to have salary ballast and they have young guys. And I think two picks they can trade. They can trade 24 on draft night. And they got obligations to Charlotte GPE and OKC and they have young guys. And I think two picks they can trade. They can trade 24 on draft night and they got obligations to Charlotte andOKC GPE and stuff that push back another pick.

Speaker 34511s - 4519.3s

I think they trade three if they frame it as first allowable and they're immediately expiring. So they have their own 2024, right?

Speaker 24519.38s - 4522.26s

So you trade that draft night after draft night, whatever.

Speaker 34522.5s - 4528.82s

28 or 29, depending. Well, can you trade 29 and then you could trade 2031. I don't know if I would.

Speaker 24529s - 4531.1s

Because they're not second apron, right? Or no, that would be.

Speaker 34531.1s - 4544.24s

Well, 232 is the draft where it would be locked. So they have three first round picks. They can include swaps. So if you want, like, they would have a real Kevin Durant PERSON offer if he was available, just because I'm assuming Kevin Durant PERSON would have some sort of saying where he goes.

Speaker 24544.42s - 4549.3s

Kevin Durant PERSON never is always happy, though. Kevin Durant PERSON never wants to leave where he is.

Speaker 34549.4s - 4577.32s

I just don't know, like, you're going to do that and you're still tethered to this very, I mean, Bam being only, what is he, 26 and change about turn 27 shortly. That helps you. I just don't know what the move is. You know what I kind of, this wouldn't save Minnesota ORG money. If you wanted to save money as part of this,get another team involved. But if they were to look at moving Carl Anthony Towns PERSON, this would be like, because doesn't Tyler Hero and Duncan Robinson kind of makes sense on Minnesota ORG? Yeah.

Speaker 44577.32s - 4586.06s

You could say that they would prefer Terry Rozier PERSON. But like, so two of those three guys on Minnesota ORG where you're kind of just, we've decided what we want to split up the Carl Anthony Towns PERSON money.

Speaker 34586.06s - 4587.3s

I don't think they should do this,

Speaker 04587.62s - 4592.36s

but like that might be a player where the heat don't have to bankrupt their draft equity.

Speaker 44592.8s - 4593.08s

And he is,

Speaker 04593.12s - 4599.98s

I know they have Yovich PERSON there. And I know that they have Jaime Hawkes PERSON, but you can play Carl Anthony Towns and Bam PERSON out of bio together. No problem.

Speaker 24600.62s - 4609.06s

Yeah, Bam unlocks a lot of things option wise for the second big. Like that's just that that's a clean big. Like, that's just that, that's a clean, I mean, that's cleaner than Gobert PERSON and towns for sure.

Speaker 34609.06s - 4615.02s

I think what the issue with that is, it still feels like they need an advantage creator type of guy,

Speaker 24615.14s - 4617.02s

which I think is why people are, I don't,

Speaker 34617.22s - 4640.16s

I don't hate Trey Young PERSON for this team. I just getting the math to work and I get it for it to make sense for, I guess Duncan Robinson PERSON and Terry Rozier but it feels like and I hate saying this because I think Tyler Hero PERSON is the better player but the harder fit when it comes to like a Terry Rozier PERSON thing you almost want to move him if you're going to get the advantage creator type but then again is it do you want to when

Speaker 04640.16s - 4646.46s

Jimmy Butler PERSON is kind of aging like this I don't that's what it's just like just like, what is the name, I guess, that makes sense for the heat.

Speaker 44646.46s - 4648.28s

And so yes, if Donovan Mitchell PERSON's available, sure,

Speaker 04648.4s - 4650.18s

I would definitely sniff around Trey Young PERSON,

Speaker 34650.6s - 4661.3s

but they're never going to have, unless they include Jaime Hawkes PERSON, which I would not for either of those guys. I just think at that point, how is your team that much better off? But it's like,

Speaker 44661.4s - 4663.1s

what, like,

Speaker 34663.2s - 4686.36s

they're never going to have the best offer. So who is the player that they could feasibly acquire that may? Dogman Mitchell feels most realistic because, one, is he does something happen in Cleveland ORG, which we should probably just talk on that series very quickly since they're not playing tonight. And then he's entering free agency. So the threat of his player option, like being able to leave after a year,that would help sort of mandate where he goes.

Speaker 24688.04s - 4697.04s

I mean, Zach Levine, you don't, if you're not trying to give up your whole, all of your stuff, like, is Zach Levine someone that you think about?

Speaker 34697.04s - 4708.16s

Like that, then you may just be in real trouble there and he's not like a huge advantage creator. What if he's willing to delete as part of the trade, his no trade clause?

Speaker 24708.64s - 4713.44s

And it's just salary ballast for Bradley Beale. So you're,

Speaker 34713.48s - 4714.54s

but you're giving up.

Speaker 24714.8s - 4716.94s

It would be, I think if,

Speaker 34716.94s - 4734.94s

if you could get them to take, well, that's just, it's, it's Duncan Robinson plus Terry Rozier or Tyler Hero PERSON. That is the, the basis of the trade.I didn't even do the math in my head. I think that should work because what are Tyler, Tyler Heroes at 29. Oh, Terry Rozier PERSON is a lot less. He's at, he's at 25.

Speaker 24735.6s - 4737.36s

But I mean, Duncan Robinson's at 19.

Speaker 04737.48s - 4744.28s

So 25 and 19, that's the lowest number. That still gets you to 44, which that should, what does Bradley Beal PERSON at? Maybe it doesn't.

Speaker 34744.64s - 4745.5s

Maybe it doesn't get you.

Speaker 24745.5s - 4746.04s

He's over 50.

Speaker 34746.96s - 4749.4s

I can I just say, yeah, there needs to be more money.

Speaker 24750.44s - 4751.94s

I'll just throw in, I don't know.

Speaker 34752.28s - 4753s

He's at 50.

Speaker 24753.16s - 4756.82s

So it's just you have, but like you're not going to include Yovich in the deal of Miami ORG.

Speaker 34756.94s - 4762.92s

You're running out of like if you get with Tyler Hero, so it's 29 and 19, okay, we're at, we're at 48.

Speaker 24763.2s - 4764.3s

Now we're basically there.

Speaker 34764.48s - 4778.24s

So like, that's fine. So would you consider, so Bradley Biel PERSON says, but I will get rid of my no trade cause after this move. So then in your head, if you're the heat, you could say, well, maybe we can, like, turn Bradley B. into more, more than we gave up to get him.Would you consider something like that?

Speaker 24779.18s - 4807.12s

I would, and I would from Phoenix ORG's perspective, anything that's going to get me, like, two bodies for one that I can actually play. I definitely would consider that. And yeah, like if getting off of a no, Beal PERSON with a no trade clause, what do you like he feels duplicative. This has been the take all along. So it's just better to have more guys. Like just give me more guys. I keep talking Phoenix ORG's perspective. I know we're on on Miami. Like do you, well, do you think Beal PERSON is enough of an advantage? You said advantage creator.

Speaker 34807.12s - 4808.76s

Like is he not this season.

Speaker 24808.76s - 4811.9s

He wasn't just like rim pressure basically dissolved.

Speaker 34812.42s - 4818.56s

It's hard to tell. Who's the guy then? It's just the guy. I'm not saying,

Speaker 44818.76s - 4828.24s

oh, if it's not Bradley Beal PERSON, then who? That's not what I'm saying. It's just like who is the actual like, what are we?Does it and does it have to be a megawatt star?

Speaker 34828.36s - 4832.68s

Does a DeJante Murray do? I don't know. Well, I think it almost,

Speaker 24833.2s - 4859.56s

it almost does because you, the heats offense is so anemic that like, and Butler PERSON, Butler getting a year older. Like he really slipped as a finisher as, as just a general shot creator and,you know, miss time. Like, you got to get someone in there that's going to get your offense up into like the mid teens. You can't be in the,the 20s anymore if you're serious about contending, which Miami ORG really always is. So, yeah.

Speaker 44859.56s - 4860.02s

This is my,

Speaker 34861.42s - 4863.74s

the word of the point in the discussion where I feel like,

Speaker 44863.94s - 4864.82s

if I haven't made it clear,

Speaker 34865.06s - 4907.38s

if I were the heat, I would seriously consider seeing what can we get for Jimmy Butler PERSON? And because how are you, can you still win games? Like, are you going to get enough stuff to turn around and trade for somebody else?It's just, it's not aligning, especially because, yeah, you're mentioning it almost has to be a third star. We've just kind of seen that if you're going to have all these stars,it's one thing if you're the magic and you're thinking about going out and getting somebody and you're going to have Palo and Franz and maybe Suggs PERSON, they're on their their rookie scale extensions. But like when you have guys on their third and fourth contracts and they're up towards these 30 and 35% maxes, it seems like now fleshing out a team with that structure.I won't say impossible because nothing is impossible, but it's uber difficult.

Speaker 44907.9s - 4929s

And so if I'm Miami ORG, I'm at least testing the Jimmy Butler PERSON waters, the caveat there being I go through just the list of teams. And it's who, you know, because if you're going to go,not that this would ever be a decision, but if you're a team looking at acquiring Paul George or Jimmy Butler PERSON, you might view Butler PERSON's the superior player, certainly during the playoffs. Paul George PERSON is just the easier fit in an ecosystem that's already set up.

Speaker 34929.52s - 4931.92s

And so I would at least test the waters here.

Speaker 44931.98s - 4933.08s

I think the heat are at.

Speaker 34933.26s - 4937.54s

I know they just made the finals last year, but I don't see the move unless it just ends up,

Speaker 44937.74s - 4941.12s

like if it costs less than we would expect it to for them to get Donovan Mitchell PERSON because

Speaker 34941.12s - 4952.1s

he's nearing for agency, sure. But I don't think, I mean, maybe they view the three-star model is more sustainable for them because they trust that they'll just find guys, a Haywood Highsmith, a Kayla Martin PERSON,

Speaker 44952.48s - 4956.06s

even just sort of like having Yovich PERSON. So maybe they trust that in themselves.

Speaker 34956.54s - 4967.56s

But I'm just, I don't, I don't see the out because I just don't ever envision them having the best offer or close enough to the best offer in a blockbuster trade package right now. Yeah.

Speaker 24967.72s - 4980.32s

I know this is like a, I don't mean this as pushback, but like, who's the Jimmy Butler PERSON team? Because he's a lot to take on for like a lot of reasons. Like if I mean,and you have to be looking at teams that view themselves.

Speaker 44982s - 4982.44s

Right.

Speaker 24982.74s - 4986.76s

So I was thinking like, well, the six, no, I don't think that's happening, although it is different

Speaker 34986.76s - 4991.06s

ownership or not management, but I guess the Knicks ORG would consider it.

Speaker 24991.12s - 5006.22s

That's not the guy for them. They need someone who just a little bit, I mean, I would prefer someone if I'm the Knicks who's younger, but I don't, the culturally, he probably does fit, but it's just he's at an age and he's so not plug in play at this point

Speaker 45006.22s - 5014.42s

that you would be, if nothing else, infringing upon what J.L. Brunson is doing. So I don't, and I don't know that those two would compliment each other very well.

Speaker 35015.76s - 5032.34s

I mean, like, does New Orleans GPE make any sense? I think someone was kind of a better shooter, but he would, I mean, what are you giving up to get him, though? Like, does a B.I. Jimmy Butler PERSON trade kind of just like challenge, like, we'll get younger and a little cheaper. And the Pelker PERSON's like, fuck it. We're just going to get someone who's elite.Right.

Speaker 25032.44s - 5041.38s

Yeah, we'll get a legit second star. I mean, like, yeah, Paul PERSON for, to the clippers for Paul George PERSON, we just like swap. Okay.

Speaker 35041.88s - 5042.56s

What about like?

Speaker 25043.24s - 5047.34s

Would a Trey Young Jimmy Butler PERSON challenge trade like as the basis make any sense?

Speaker 35048.08s - 5053.78s

What's he going to do in Atlanta if they're like hanging around 500 with the guy.

Speaker 25053.78s - 5073.04s

I just, I'm so scared. That's the thing. I'd be more concerned of like you go from because Jimmy Butler PERSON just, you know, all the Minnesota ORG stuff. And then I guess like I equate. I say like and then Philly GPE butPhilly was just like they decided to pay Ben Simmons PERSON instead and that pissed him off and like that was the correct way to feel about that decision is that right that's basically what

Speaker 35073.04s - 5078.64s

it was wasn't it yeah like maybe he's maybe if we're just holding Minnesota ORG against him as like

Speaker 25078.64s - 5084s

a malcontent thing like that's not totally fair because how about your well not in your backyard

Speaker 35084s - 5092.42s

but near and dear to your heart, Wiggins PERSON, salary, and then you're not giving up, you're not giving up any of the youngsters, basically.

Speaker 45093.6s - 5097.02s

You're definitely not giving up, you don't give up comminga, you don't give up pods,

Speaker 05097.34s - 5102.3s

maybe if they want Trace Jackson Davis, but it's Picks salary for Jimmy Butler PERSON,

Speaker 45102.4s - 5103.58s

or you're the Warriors ORG, do you consider it?

Speaker 35104.56s - 5105s

Yeah, I think so. I mean, like his shooting issues are like, Warriors ORG, do you consider it? Yeah,

Speaker 25105.06s - 5134.28s

I think so. I mean, like his shooting issues are like, well, how do we pair him with Dremond PERSON and like a, whoever the big is that doesn't shoot?That's a little iffy. But like he's just, if it's this version of Andrew PERSON, if it's anything other than the great six months version of Andrew Wiggins PERSON, like you take Jimmy Butler over him all day. That's,although like, man, that's, so now you've got that,'s that the the luxury tax issues are going to be insane. Like clay is gone probably if you do that just because you can't pay him.

Speaker 35134.7s - 5140.04s

They're like there's technically if they wave Chris Paul PERSON. They're just like out of the tax before factoring in Clay Thompson PERSON.

Speaker 25140.04s - 5141.72s

So they might not be as challenging.

Speaker 45142.36s - 5144.56s

They would be a tax team. But I don't think they would.

Speaker 35144.68s - 5150.2s

I think you could trade for Jimmy and then re-sign Clay PERSON and you're not just like second apron monster.

Speaker 25150.76s - 5207.58s

If you run it back as Miami, is there a reason to be optimistic next year will be different than this year? Is there enough like organic growth from Hawkes and Yovic and like maybe Hero ORG stays healthier? You get a full season of Terry Rozier PERSON. Like it's not crazy to say that the heat could just be a little better. Like I don't think they can be a lot better.But, you know, they could. And that does feel like kind of in a, you know, we always, I always assume the heat are going to star hunt no matter what and be bold and like semi reckless sometimes. But like there's also just the faith in like the guys they already have and internal development that they lean on a lot.So I just, I mean, it's not as fun for purposes of discussion. But like, I think there's a version of this heat team next year that's just, you know, five, six games better in the standings. And maybe that and if they're a little luckier on the health front, like, I don't know. That's, you know, Butler PERSON's age makes that hard to bank on. But it's, there's a non-zero possibility that they, that they just keep it together and are really good next year.

Speaker 35207.98s - 5224.94s

I think that is that the actual most likely scenario, even if you're not including a star trade, let alone trading Jimmy Butler PERSON yourself, would you expect them to make, let's say like, is there, I mean, you could probably even say, is there going to be a new addition to their starting lineup because their starting lineup was so fluid this year?

Speaker 05224.94s - 5225.04s

Do you expect them to, what's more like that? They run it back or they make a significant move? probably even say, is there going to be a new addition to their starting lineup because their starting lineup was so fluid this year.

Speaker 45226.3s - 5226.38s

Do you expect them to?

Speaker 05226.9s - 5226.92s

What's more like that?

Speaker 45229.06s - 5235.2s

They run it back or they make a significant move. I'm not talking even just a star, but do we try and turn Tyler Hero PERSON into multiple players

Speaker 05235.2s - 5236.66s

or vice versa with it, Terry Rozier PERSON?

Speaker 35236.8s - 5241.86s

They're just, yeah, they're almost only built for the mega move because of how high their

Speaker 45241.86s - 5243.9s

primary salary matching tools are.

Speaker 35244.3s - 5249s

Yeah, I keep looking at Hero and Roseer PERSON, partly because they're kind of, I guess you wouldn't

Speaker 25249s - 5273.56s

say it like mid tier contract necessarily, but like the higher end of mid tier contract figures where it's like one or the other of those guys, you could, you know, depending on what assets you're willing to attach, it's not like a marquee thing, but like maybe just a better fit or someone that's going to fill more of a need. But like, I don't know, the more I'm looking at the roster, it's going like a marquee thing, but like maybe just a better fit or someone that's going to fill more of a need. But like, I don't know. The more I'm looking at the roster, it's going to get more expensive maybe, depending onwhat like you need to do.

Speaker 35273.76s - 5275.52s

Caleb Martin PERSON. Yeah. There.

Speaker 25275.72s - 5290.66s

Right. And even like Kevin Love PERSON, I don't know. That's way below Caleb Martin PERSON in terms of like or how concerned are we. But like both of those guys if they're back are going to make a little more. i don't know running it back is just i threw that out there but that's like

Speaker 35290.66s - 5298.7s

yeah that kind of feels like maybe what they're going to do any thoughts on cabs magic the series

Speaker 25298.7s - 5303.76s

that i think aside from pacer's bucks and a lot of that i think more so has to do with injuries

Speaker 35303.76s - 5318.42s

but there's been i know know Jared Allen missed game five. Like there's been, like the best players have been available in this series. And it's been, I wouldn't even say it's wonderfully chaotic. It's just absolutely unhinged. We finally had a close game, though.

Speaker 25318.58s - 5342.9s

So there was that. Yeah. And it's like somehow you leave that game still not feeling like that great about either team. Yeah, I don't know. Like this is I guess I guess the main thing for me is is like looking ahead and it sucks that Boston ORG is the next team on the docket for whoever comes out of this series.It's like have what have we seen if anything?

Speaker 05343.06s - 5352.62s

And I know I'm just speaking rhetorically because my answer is not a lot that suggests either of these teams is like a true threat to do much

Speaker 45352.62s - 5356.34s

going forward and that wasn't expected of Orlando ORG but it kind of might have been of Cleveland

Speaker 25356.34s - 5369.74s

so like yeah I don't know it's just the offense on either side isn't like intimidating darius garland still has has moments, but then it's like what's going on with him. I did hear,

Speaker 35369.84s - 5372.06s

I don't know if you like when he broke his job at least.

Speaker 25372.48s - 5373.12s

I think I was on.

Speaker 35373.52s - 5418.54s

By the way, I think when we recorded, I don't know if it was after he had a good game early in this year. He was like, oh, it looks like Darius Garland PERSON frisking again.Then Craters has a good game five. That's part. The heat is being when they're at or close to full strength, being more of a wild card in terms of just what to expect from them, than when they're short-handed. It's just so bizarre.Did I say the heat? I meant the Cavs ORG. It's just so utterly bizarre. And I don't know if is like Donovan Mitchell PERSON still dealing with the, like, he's just been injured all over the place.Derek's gone and has been hit in the face every five seconds, apparently. Is this some of the ill effects of still, specifically with Mitchell PERSON, whose series has been not great. And I feel like now people are kind of rewriting what he does in the playoffs.He's had some epic, this is not like a playoff wilter.

Speaker 05418.94s - 5420.44s

He's had epic moments in the playoffs.

Speaker 45420.44s - 5436.74s

The fact that he is shooting for the series, as I looked up, he's shooting eight of 35 from three. So it's only 22.9% PERCENT. And so just like that's like that's actually surprising to me. Like this is, oh, Donovan Mitchell's and Donvin Mitchell PERSON ended up again. No, no. Yeah. I think,

Speaker 25436.74s - 5448.52s

I think it's at least, I feel like the trend is going the wrong way for Donovan Mitchell PERSON in terms of postseason reputation. But like all the stuff he did three, four years ago, that still counts when he was just something weird.

Speaker 45449.08s - 5467.64s

And the worst thing you can say is like, it's been a little hit or miss and like a few more misses lately. And he's clearly like not 100%. I was going to say about Garland PERSON, I didn't know this should have been, should have intuitive it that like when he broke his jaw, he couldn't eat and he lost a ton of weight. And it's just like, that's hard to come back from if you're trying to ramp up and get your

Speaker 35467.64s - 5526.74s

conditioning back up and all that stuff. This defense, which I do think you need to credit Orlando ORG with what they've been able to do to Donovan Mitchell PERSON. He seems very just like not necessarily visibly, but like his game has been definitely frustrated thrown off kilter by, I mean, Jalen Suggs PERSON specifically. He spent a lot of time.But also what looms large now, so you have the Gary Harris PERSON hamstring injury, that's the guy you turn to to, like, do a lot of shit for you on defense. I think this series, it hasn't, I think it's only reinforced how I feel about the magic, which is they are in a great spot moving forward, but there needs to be an infusion of offense that takes the form of whether it's separate players or one player, okay, there's kind of another floor general type here. It doesn't need to be a Trey Young who manages the entire game because we have Paoloand France and even Suggs PERSON, but it does need to be a playmaker, a floor general type, and there needs to just be like shooting, like floor spacing, better floor space.

Speaker 25527.1s - 5601.32s

It's really interesting how a series where you, where the through line has been like, both teams have looked really terrible for stretches of it. It's so different because with Orlando ORG, like you said, like, yeah, clearly Orlando ORG needs stuff. Like, everybody knew that coming in.And it's just we know what the things are that the magic need. So it's like not that complicated. And they have the resources to go get them. It'd be nice if there were more options in free agency. But like it's just like there's no mystery. Whereas with Cleveland, it's like, well, now we're all just talking about like, do we need to break up the two bigs?Do we need to break up the two smalls? Does Donovan Mitchell's PERSON imminent departure? Like the changes for Cleveland ORG in kind of, even though they're kind of playing similarly to Orlando ORG are like seismic and wholesale. And like, you know, we're talking about like the soul of the team where with Orlando ORG, it's like, yeah, they need a couple guys.We understand that. Like that's all the young guys look good. We got a bunch of pieces. It's funny that like, yeah, yeah, just the same series can give you such different takeaways from, from two different teams that are like, kind of,I don't know, it just, I guess you said it first, but like, I guess if I have a main takeaway from it, it's like,feel pretty good about Orlando and I do not feel very good about Cleveland ORG.

Speaker 45602.02s - 5603.78s

That's with Evan Mowgli PERSON playing well.

Speaker 35603.78s - 5606.44s

And like that block he had to seal game five was huge.

Speaker 45606.62s - 5609.54s

I saw people just like, oh, Franz gave him that one.

Speaker 35609.62s - 5628.94s

And it was like, you think Franz made the wrong decision. Like that was a really good timing block. Yeah, what do you want? By everybody. So by the way, quick thing on the, like the magic defense stuff, fewer than 10% of Donovan Mitchell's possessions against J-1 Juan Suggs PERSON are ending in a shot attempt or free throws.That's a dub for the magic.

Speaker 25629.32s - 5630.38s

That's what you call clamps.

Speaker 35630.62s - 5668.34s

There's turnovers. They're just getting the ball out of his hands or maybe even not letting him get the ball. But that's absolutely massive. But you should, as Cleveland ORG still have enough residual talent or supporting cast to, like, counter that and be better on offense than you've been overall.130% from free. I'm more uneasy about Cleveland ORG than I've ever been. And it's just I don't know what the, you know, they tried the, the Jared Allen PERSON injury. It did, it not forced them, but it invited them to play small now. I just don't know what to make of a team that decided, okay, Marcus Morris might be a little more important in this series than George Nyang PERSON.

Speaker 25672.54s - 5677.44s

I just don't know what to do with that. And there, it doesn't seem like, I did a double take when I saw Morris on the floor in game five. And it was just like, man, it's like the

Speaker 35677.44s - 5688.24s

Paul PERSON was like, who'd have thought? I'm going to think a small victory lap there where I said, we were doing our playoff preaches. I said, it just feels like Marcus Morris PERSON might become too important to a team in the year 2024.

Speaker 25688.82s - 5689.7s

That's exactly right.

Speaker 35689.82s - 5741s

He is too important to the, it's way too important for the cast. But they seem to be struggling. And maybe is this a J.B. Bickerstaff thing overthinking it, but like, oh, we can't find more minutes for Sam Merrill PERSON in this, this series. Like, if you're really trying to give yourself more of a puncher's chance when it comes toshooting and you have other guys who've struggled so much. I mean, even Karas Lever has been huge to them all year. This has not been a good, like, not great, like just not a good series for him. And there are some guys that you just expect to shoot better, Donovan Mitchell being one, Max Drus has struggled from Beyond the Arc WORK_OF_ART. The magic just put a lot of pressure on you, though. I feel more uneasy about Cleveland in a sense of what, if they lose in the first round,the season's a failure, the goal was to win a playoff series, and they were healthy enough when it mattered most, like the fact that they were able to navigate the regular season so well, and they get to a point where they're fuller strength technically in the playoffs,

Speaker 05741s - 5749.2s

unless you're just saying, no, Mitchell's banged up, Garland PERSON's banged up, now Jared Allen is banged up. Okay, fine, but the goal of this series to improve're just saying, no, Mitchell's banged up, Garland's banged up, now Jared Allen PERSON is banged up. Okay, fine, but the goal of this series to improve upon last year,

Speaker 35749.48s - 5757.22s

you win a playoff series. You actively, not all year, but you kind of orchestrated this matchup by the end of the season.

Speaker 25757.38s - 5818.82s

And that's putting out. There's no kind of. Like, they really did. Like, you kind of picked this one. And like,it's not just that they are I mean they are I don't know I think Cleveland ORG's still going to win the series but it's like you kind of wanted this matchup and it's a matchup that's like it's got all these boxes you tick for like why you should win it like lack of experience like glaring offensive flaws like stuff that typically talking about Orlando ORG that's like okay they're super beatable like it just it yeah I don't know.I want to pivot real quick. I'm sorry to cut you off, but like, I know you aren't as fixated on the Donovan Mitchell of it all as I tend to be with, with the calves and like, what effect is that having, if any? I do think it's not a good thing that like Donovan Mitchell PERSON seems to be everyone's picked, he's going to be gone.Like, I think that. But like, doesn't that sort of simplify some of the situation for you if you're Cleveland because like you do need to make changes and like here's this one piece that like well I mean the circumstances just it's got to be him because we don't want to lose him for

Speaker 45818.82s - 5831.74s

nothing like does that does that factor into your thinking my issue with that is I have a higher confidence level in this dual guard set up working long term than I do in the dual big set up working long term.

Speaker 35831.8s - 5833.68s

There's no issues with the dual bigs defensively.

Speaker 45833.9s - 5847.94s

And have you seen enough from Evan Mobley to say, like, looking at the offense, like we just know if we don't have Donovan Mitchell, we're just going to run a lot of units whereas Mobley is on his own and going to be getting a ton of offensive. You still need, if you're, if you're, if Donne Mitchell

Speaker 35847.94s - 5852.8s

requests a trader, you decide we need to break this up and because he's about to be paid on a higher

Speaker 45852.8s - 5856.76s

max level than a Darius Garland or never in Mobley, let alone to Jared Allen PERSON, who remains a

Speaker 25856.76s - 5861.28s

steal, that he's the guy, just the risk of him leaving or he asked for out, whatever.

Speaker 35861.94s - 5880.04s

You still need to get someone back who is going to optimize your offense through these, I don't want to say imperfections, but what are still functional warts because unless Mowgli PERSON is going to be, this is just, I don't mean to oversimplified. I'm not speaking to you.

Speaker 05880.4s - 5882.14s

I promise I've seen a lot of Evan Mowgli PERSON.

Speaker 45882.68s - 5884.78s

I think Evan Mowgli PERSON is a fantastic basketball player.

Speaker 05884.78s - 5888.38s

But unless you just get Evan Mbley PERSON to take more threes,

Speaker 15888.7s - 5915.84s

there's always going to be a half court awkwardness to Cleveland ORG's offense. How do you move Donovan Mitchell PERSON and not make yourself better, but ensure that you don't exacerbate the issue because you've just gone, you lose his floor spacing and a shot creation, which neither is serving you well right now.I understand that. How does that make you better? And if he's asking for out, it's not about getting better. It's about when we need to recu as much as we can for this asset that is going to leave,

Speaker 35915.84s - 5935.4s

but that still doesn't moving him, I would say, if it doesn't exacerbate, it doesn't, it complicates or it doesn't get rid of your longest term concern because to me, your shortest term concern might be what's happening with Donovan Mitchell PERSON. My longest term concern is what is the best way to optimize this front

Speaker 25935.4s - 5942.62s

court? That's a really interesting point. I think for me, this is the most interesting point

Speaker 35942.62s - 5945.22s

you've made in the last six to seven minutes TIME.

Speaker 25945.74s - 5957.18s

I know that it's fascinating because like I think what's unfortunately maybe the case is like it's not just it's not either or it's like neither the two small guards nor the two non-spacing bigs.

Speaker 45957.18s - 5958.9s

You've got to trade two guys.

Speaker 25959.68s - 5989.2s

But like what I what's what I'm interested in is is so like with Mobley PERSON one it's not just shooting more threes I think for that pairing to really work he's also got to be like pretty comfortable off the dribble like making doing like more combo forward shit like real like not just he's spotting up like spotting up would be great that's the starting point like if he's going to shoot and make a decent clip of like six, seven, threes a game, something like that. Like that's your, that's your base,

Speaker 35989.2s - 5993.22s

like, you want to make six or seven three is a game? Yeah, I want to become the greatest three point

Speaker 25993.22s - 6071.78s

shooter in the history of the NBA. No, get up six or seven, make two, whatever. Uh, three would be phenomenal. Especially if you're shooting six, then he would again be the greatest three point shooter ever. Like, it can't just be that, though, I think because there's still, that's still like a such a one-dimensional offensive piece.Like, that one dimension's cool. But like part of the reason that Towns and Gobert PERSON make more sense than this pairing is like, towns will put it on the deck for straight line drives and get fouled. Towns PERSON will post up mismatches. Like,Mobily doesn't have those dimensions to the degree Towns PERSON does. That's not a fair comparison. Towns PERSON is an awesome offensive player. But like, it can't just be that. At the same time, Garland and Mitchell PERSON are going to be the same size with the same games,like going forward. The fact that Mobley PERSON could add those things is part of the reason I still am like more open to breaking up the two small guard thing than the Mobley Allen bit because Mobley might develop whereas like Garland PERSON's always going to be small always going to struggle to finish Mitchell PERSON or whatever other small guard it is not going to grow not like so you can hope for change and growth because of Mobley. But I'm just, I don't know, like, but, but he's got to get like a lot better at more than one thing to make that.

Speaker 36071.78s - 6076.92s

So the stuff you describe, I actually think he can already do most of it on the offensive end.

Speaker 26076.92s - 6078.26s

In ways that you're not.

Speaker 46078.86s - 6082.16s

Like, in ways that make him a priority for your coverages, you think?

Speaker 26082.32s - 6088.64s

Like here, here's my thing is that is he, there are two factors that are play here is he will never have,

Speaker 36088.84s - 6092.84s

it's kind of similar to BAM where he's never going to be that type of a priority

Speaker 26092.84s - 6096.76s

because he's always going to be playing with at least one other primary ball handler.

Speaker 36097.32s - 6099.64s

And then if you're going to compound that by having,

Speaker 46099.98s - 6102.94s

I would say a good amount of minutes because we've seen him staggered,

Speaker 06103.36s - 6106.96s

but where he has another big and it just simplifies the way that you can

Speaker 46106.96s - 6108.7s

defend this team,

Speaker 36109.1s - 6112.66s

what is the pathway that all the stuff you outlayed aside from the shooting for

Speaker 46112.66s - 6112.86s

mobile,

Speaker 36112.98s - 6117.22s

how does that make the Cavs more dangerous when he's playing with Jared Allen PERSON? Yeah,

Speaker 26117.28s - 6123.16s

it would have to be like a level of offensive development that makes him kind of like almost like a Siakum PERSON like offensively,

Speaker 36123.16s - 6135.02s

like where it's just like you can ISO him against like size size matches because we've seen them run some two big stuff together that would need to become more of a staple in the sense of is Evan Mobley PERSON this really

Speaker 46135.02s - 6141.26s

dangerous pull-up jump shooter and that's a different level of development because even Bam

Speaker 36141.26s - 6145.64s

is just he'll get it going from the mid-range but it's not you're not worried about bam pull-ups if you're a defense.

Speaker 26145.82s - 6153.66s

Yeah, right. Yeah, it's tough. I don't know. I guess maybe I'm holding on to all of my Evan Mobley PERSON's going to be the greatest.

Speaker 36154.14s - 6163.18s

But that's, I don't think that you're wrong. My point is, is that for Evan Mobley PERSON to be that player, it feels like it's not, he won't

Speaker 46163.18s - 6165.44s

get there because they have Donovan Mitchell PERSON and Darius

Speaker 36165.44s - 6236.14s

gone. It's because of the front court set up. And I fully recognize that maybe Evan Mobley at the five right now is not what you want defensively. You certainly need different types of wings in there. If that's the route, you're going to go.So I'm not saying that it's a perfect solution. But if you, I have just as much belief in Evan Mobley's potential pinnacle as you do. I do not think the calves are currently built. And the two-guards stuff could be part of this because of the agency that will always have over the offense. But I just,he seems to be the player that might be more marginalized than anyone as the result of this setup. And I don't think that because there's, there's not functional awkwardness necessarily with him, Mitchell and Garland. It's the functional awkwardness stems from the Allen PERSON set. And it's purely an offensive concern for me. The defense is just, I can't, I mean, I don't understandwhy this team just won't grab rebounds. I know that Evan Mowbys PERSON not always near the basket when he's defending, but they need to be a lot like overall on on balance. Like this shouldn't be a team. I haven't looked at their rebounding numbers specifically during the playoffs. But yeah, I mean, you're 14th out of 20 teams, including playing teams and defensive rebounding rate, you have two bigs.I know that you stagger them, but like there's just not.

Speaker 26236.5s - 6238.86s

So there's that.

Speaker 46239.16s - 6240.04s

And I guess I'll,

Speaker 26240.28s - 6242.86s

like I made the towns go bear comparison.

Speaker 36242.86s - 6246.34s

And it's like even with an offensive second big

Speaker 26246.34s - 6277.68s

as gifted as towns, the Wolf ORG's offense is still not very good. So it's just like, unless you think, because Alan and Gobert PERSON are kind of like occupy a lot of the same spaces,have similar strengths and weaknesses, not the same player, but like, even if Mobley PERSON became as good and complete of an offensive player as towns, like it's just,you'd just rather have that at center, right? Like maybe that's all it is. Like even if Mobley PERSON hits the absolute pinnacle, the absolute peak of his abilities, well then why do I want a second big out there?Like just he should just do that at center with four wings around.

Speaker 36277.68s - 6287.52s

Isn't there the, isn't this kind of the, and I hate coming back to this as an analog, but isn't this sort of Cleveland ORG trying to play Bam out of bio at the four?

Speaker 26287.94s - 6288.46s

A little bit.

Speaker 36288.98s - 6290.42s

The heat don't do that anymore.

Speaker 26292.78s - 6293.24s

Yeah.

Speaker 36293.38s - 6295.18s

No, I think I think maybe that's the bit.

Speaker 26295.44s - 6299.2s

So you kind of sold me then because like my idea.

Speaker 36299.2s - 6299.86s

I want to be clear.

Speaker 26299.98s - 6300.88s

He's the last one.

Speaker 46300.94s - 6302.1s

I'm not saying move Evan Mowgli PERSON.

Speaker 26302.24s - 6303.44s

He's the of the four.

Speaker 46303.54s - 6305.16s

He is still the last player I would move.

Speaker 26305.46s - 6305.68s

Right.

Speaker 36305.78s - 6307.62s

100% easily.

Speaker 26307.88s - 6324.74s

Like, I would move two of the others before I moved him. Like, that's just, he's the one you hold on to. Yeah,that's interesting. You know, part of me just wants it to work. Part of me wants to see like a too big setup be successful. And the wolves are sort of doing that, but not offensively.You know,

Speaker 36324.8s - 6346.92s

it doesn't work. I wanted to work because I love the idea of, one, not just teams in non-glamour markets, but two, teams that are not on these wish lists of stars who become available to make the risks, take the risk that Cleveland ORG did. And even with that Minnesota ORG did, it was definitely different because Rudy Gobert didn't have the clout to be like, I will only go here.

Speaker 46347.48s - 6375.46s

But Donovan Mitchell PERSON could have. He didn't. And so I love seeing, we came on here. I mean, we celebrated both trades. So I wanted to work out because I want to see other teams, even just what Milwaukee did with Dame ORG.It's a little bit easier because they have one of the three to five greatest players in the world. And Cleveland ORG did not. So I want to see teams that are not on these lists, teams like that don't have the entrenched top five, top ten DATE guy.

Speaker 36375.96s - 6396.56s

Teams that are in these non-glars. You want them to be as aggressive as these other teams are, not necessarily mortgaging their future for the wrong guy. That's one of the reasons I wanted to work. I'm not rooting against the caps of I. That was the thing I was wrong about is I thought anyone who was, well,maybe you should look at training Donald Mitchell PERSON, this is going to work out. I was shitting all over them at the beginning of the year. And I still think it was you don't make that decision now.

Speaker 46396.68s - 6402.36s

You didn't give up all for Donna Mitchell just to then move him after one season. But you just,

Speaker 36402.44s - 6415.44s

you don't do that unless he, if he came and said, I don't want to be here, which doesn't seem like he did. Dan Gilbert PERSON argues the exact opposite. So I'm rooting for it to work out.It's just getting harder and harder for me to envision it working out. Yeah,

Speaker 26415.52s - 6423.86s

I think that's right. So I don't know if we've talked, if I've put you to the actual question. Like, would you trade Donovan Mitchell this summer?

Speaker 36426s - 6430.76s

If he's not willing to sign an extension or just re-sign, yeah.

Speaker 46431.46s - 6435.94s

I can't, you can't let it go to free agency.

Speaker 36436.18s - 6454.12s

You just, you can't in this day and age. And there will be, maybe you could get to a point where if we move him as part of a sign and trade, but if you, and you need to know this by the end of the summer because if you go into this season, you will still get stuff for him. But the offers will be like, you might cost yourself a first round pick or maybe more than that.

Speaker 46454.44s - 6467.38s

And if you're going to trade him to a team, like teams tend to be more desperate in the off season, even though more moves happen. There's this flurry of action at the trade deadline because it's that truncated deadline.

Speaker 36467.78s - 6505.2s

But over the off-season is when teams are making the really big decisions. The James Hardin PERSON trade is like sort of anomaly. The Pascal Seaccombe PERSON trade, Pascal Seaccom PERSON is a great example. I thought the OG PERSON trade was one of those where it worked out for both teams. The Raptors feel like they probably should have gotten more for Seaccom PERSON.When you look at what they actually, it actually, like what they actually took to, to send him out. And so that feels like a move that should have been made sooner at the latest over the offseason rather than in the middle of this year. And so, yes, if he's saying that he's not sure, then you need to at least consider it.And if he's telling you he's leaving, you need to listen to him and you need to flip them.

Speaker 26505.2s - 6523.68s

And the thing is, like the clock's always ticking and like the, the assets available or that teams are going to be willing to trade will always diminish because we're odds are, if we're talking at Donovan Mitchell PERSON trade, the acquiring team is viewing it as a rental because like why,unless it's one of the teams he really wants to go to and you can engineer it that way.

Speaker 36523.84s - 6524.86s

Lakers ORG, if it's the heat,

Speaker 26526.08s - 6534.36s

I don't, you know. But in terms of like, if you're just trying to get the best offer, because some of those teams will be like, well, we'll just sign him. He's going to opt out. Like that's fine.

Speaker 36534.78s - 6538.08s

We don't need it. Well, you're better. It's like the heat and the Lakers ORG are teams that wouldn't have cap space.

Speaker 26538.2s - 6556.94s

It's like that's where your leverage is. Right. But it's just the point is to me, like, I think you do get into a Seacum ORG situation if you wait until the deadline. Just because like now we're talking potentially a couple months DATE that we get this guy. And like if that results in a conference finals birth, like, okay, price was worth it. But teams are going to want a full season of them.

Speaker 36556.94s - 6562.82s

I do think even though, so they would be in a weird spot where it's so let's say Donne Mitchell PERSON says he will stay.

Speaker 46563.44s - 6564.6s

So that's off the table.

Speaker 36564.82s - 6570.1s

Then what? That's more interesting. It's more, but then it's, well, then what do we do? Because

Speaker 46570.1s - 6575.1s

they have the luxury of time when you look at the age of their primary players, but they don't

Speaker 36575.1s - 6579.86s

have the luxury of patience. Does that make any sense? Yeah. Well, because you know all this stuff

Speaker 26579.86s - 6584.36s

about the fit issues. So then do we give this another year knowing he's going to be here?

Speaker 36585.08s - 6586.84s

Or do we try and make these changes now? Because let's say we give this another year knowing he's going to be here? Or do we try and make these changes now?

Speaker 26586.9s - 6588.82s

Because let's say we give it another year.

Speaker 36588.9s - 6630.28s

Let's say he signs an extension or he's going to resign anyway. But then it's, is there a ticking? Does another year of this kind of make someone else disgruntled? And then you're working from a position of weakness because even if they have all these years less on their deal, you would still be trading, whether it's Garland PERSON or whatever, someone who just doesn't want to be there.That is the more interesting outcome because you have to decide between, and this will look very stupid if they beat the magic, somehow beat the self-exper. But I can't envision it. And I think I might have said, aside from the bucks, I thought they were going to be the biggest threat to come out of the east this year,preseason takes. So I don't really know. This is a, their team that's under some offseason pressure. That's,

Speaker 26630.28s - 6632.7s

that's for sure. Even if they don't,

Speaker 36633.3s - 6638.26s

if there's a game seven to that magic, my God. Yeah,

Speaker 26638.36s - 6654.34s

that, I mean, then ever, you will never hear the, the run up to that will be all about the Mitchell PERSON stuff and all about the ticking clock and all about the.It's just you really don't want that if you're the Cavs ORG. It's just going to exacerbate all of the issues everyone's talking about already. Yeah, man, that was a long time.

Speaker 36654.34s - 6656.72s

Wow. Pwip PERSON, will.

Speaker 26658.3s - 6659.56s

Stat patting interrupted you.

Speaker 36659.64s - 6660.7s

They wait for no one, Grant PERSON.

Speaker 26660.88s - 6664.08s

I thought I didn't think you were going to, I didn't think you were going to be to be trailing off there.

Speaker 36664.88s - 6666.86s

If I have to put an ad marker there,

Speaker 06666.86s - 6672.22s

that'll be a little bit choppy. I try to make them smooth transitions, but I just, I'm stat petting over Grant PERSON.

Speaker 26672.54s - 6672.98s

Always.

Speaker 36673.2s - 6680.26s

Anything. Do we want to do, you said you had some guests of players, or you want to do like two guests of players each, since we're all like,

Speaker 26680.36s - 6697.62s

oh my God. We're way, we're way long already. Yeah, let's do, okay, I have one for you from Mike. Let me make sure we're way long already. Yeah, let's do. Okay, I have one for you from Mike.Let me make sure we haven't done it. We haven't done it. All right, Dan, clue number one. I was drafted in the late first round in 2009.

Speaker 36698.44s - 6701.4s

One shot killed. So it's not my good friend, Jordan Hill PERSON.

Speaker 26703.84s - 6705.16s

Late first round.

Speaker 36706.24s - 6706.38s

I just want to take a stab.

Speaker 46707.42s - 6707.54s

Who's drafting in 2009?

Speaker 26709.28s - 6709.52s

Kurt Heinrich, was that a 2009 draft?

Speaker 36710.26s - 6710.36s

No, that was earlier.

Speaker 26710.88s - 6718.48s

That's too late. I think that was earlier. Valiant effort. You have to guess on the first one. That's almost like a new unwritten rule because the success. There was.

Speaker 36718.64s - 6722.42s

We're not going to tell them what it was, but there was an off-air one-shot kill by me.

Speaker 26723.04s - 6723.78s

You can't use it.

Speaker 36724.16s - 6747.28s

I can't use it. I gave too good of a hint about the player. No, I don't want to take any credit. You just one-shot killed it. Clue number two, I immediately was my team starting power forwardas we made the playoffs in my rookie season. In 2009. Was his rookie, oh, no, wait, you said late pick. All right, yeah, no, I still got nothing. All right.

Speaker 26747.32s - 6772.8s

Clue three. After my second season, the team signed an All-Star that was supposed to take my starting spot, but he broke his hand in preseason, meaning I started the first 15 games before moving back to the bench. I averaged seven points and five rebounds in 19 minutes a game impressive, given that I was a young player on a team with a coach notoriousfor not using his bench or young players. It's a good clue.

Speaker 36773.7s - 6775.52s

Team starting power forward.

Speaker 26776.44s - 6778.06s

I'm trying to think who that was.

Speaker 36778.9s - 6786.94s

I'm trying to think of signed in. Oh, is this? No, that's way too late for L'Al Deng PERSON, right?

Speaker 26787.5s - 6788.56s

It is not L'Aldang.

Speaker 36789.7s - 6794.62s

Team, I was thinking Tibbs PERSON as the coach. All right, keep going.

Speaker 26795.28s - 6803.72s

Clue four, over the next four seasons, I would start a combined 13 games and put up great sixth man numbers. Wait, one more time.

Speaker 36804.6s - 6810.88s

Over the next four seasons, I would start a combined 13 games, but put up great

Speaker 26810.88s - 6811.84s

six-man numbers.

Speaker 36812.28s - 6813.68s

This is someone who played power forward?

Speaker 26815.72s - 6822.72s

Now I think I remember who the broken hand power forward was. No, I still got nothing.

Speaker 36823.4s - 6823.64s

Okay.

Speaker 26824.3s - 6838.4s

Clue five. After some surgeries slowed me down, I was traded at the 2017 deadline along with Doug McDermott for Anthony Morrow, Joffrey LeVern, and Campaign PERSON. I was traded.

Speaker 36838.7s - 6839.62s

What deadline was this?

Speaker 26840.46s - 6850.34s

2017 with Doug McDermott for Morrow, Laverne, and campaign. So this guy, so it's a bull,

Speaker 36850.84s - 6863.62s

because isn't McDermott PERSON on the bulls at this point? Who am I, who am I blanking on? I'm sure. The position is throwing me off. I feel like you are.

Speaker 26863.7s - 6865.62s

I hope the team is not throwing me off too.

Speaker 36865.9s - 6867.24s

You are all over it.

Speaker 26867.5s - 6867.84s

You're just,

Speaker 36867.92s - 6868.12s

it's,

Speaker 26868.22s - 6868.94s

you're just like,

Speaker 36869s - 6873.5s

you're stepping on it right now. I guess I don't need the next clue. I can't believe it.

Speaker 46873.5s - 6873.76s

All right.

Speaker 26874.7s - 6875.28s

Clu-sick.

Speaker 36875.82s - 6876.08s

This is draft.

Speaker 26876.12s - 6876.46s

I'm sorry.

Speaker 36876.66s - 6885.42s

Draft in 2009. Yes. Bulls ORG. Oh my, is it? No,2009 is wait, no, continue. Okay. I'm going to say the name because it's, wait, no, continue. Okay.

Speaker 46885.46s - 6890.66s

I'm going to say the name because it's so egregious. Okay. Is it?

Speaker 36891.66s - 6893.18s

No, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.

Speaker 26895.18s - 6896s

Clue six.

Speaker 36896.58s - 6900.62s

The following off season, I signed to reunite with my old coach

Speaker 26900.62s - 6919.5s

and decided to switch my jersey number to represent the high school I went to. I became only the second player in NBA ORG history to wear this number. I started all 82 games and had my second best scoring season of my career this year, coming five years after my next best scoring season. Taj Gibson PERSON?

Speaker 36920.1s - 6920.9s

That is correct.

Speaker 26921.12s - 6921.38s

Okay.

Speaker 36922.82s - 6927.64s

I thought 2000, I have no sense of time or because 2009 felt too late.

Speaker 26928s - 6928.32s

And it's like,

Speaker 36928.38s - 6929.96s

that was 15 years ago.

Speaker 26930.08s - 6933.44s

So is the power forward with the broken hand?

Speaker 36933.6s - 6934.6s

Is that Carlos Boozer PERSON?

Speaker 26935.4s - 6936.1s

Because he was the one.

Speaker 36936.4s - 6937.78s

That's the only all-star power forward.

Speaker 26937.86s - 6977.56s

I remember the bulls final. I was trying to think, because it's like, yeah, I didn't remember the six-man stuff for some reason. Let's see.And you would have got it like basically on every subsequent clue. In 2019, I signed with the Knicks ORG but was waived. I was re-signed by the Knicks six weeks later, then waived the following season. And 22, I played 49 games for not quite terrible yet, Washington Wizards ORG, re-signed for 23, failed to make the team's opening day roster. And then more wizard stuff.Ultimately finished the season with Detroit GPE. I am Taj Gibson PERSON. Good job. I could tell you were just like, there was no scenario where you weren't going to get him pretty quickly. Yeah.

Speaker 36978.1s - 6989.74s

All right. I have one. I'm just going to preface this with if you don't get this one, it'll break apart. It's from Rubik's gal who I did not respond to when she sent it because I'm friggin frazzled this time of year and behind

Speaker 26989.74s - 6993.84s

on so many of my, my correspondence. Does that sound? Is that sound professional?

Speaker 36994.26s - 6995.98s

I would like to say I don't appreciate

Speaker 26995.98s - 6998.24s

the added pressure of expectations.

Speaker 36998.68s - 7002.66s

No, the partnership will be dissolved if you don't get this one.

Speaker 27002.66s - 7003.98s

Okay, cool. Yeah, rip it up.

Speaker 37004.42s - 7030.76s

And there's only four clues. If you're in a one shot get this one. Okay, cool. Yeah, right, but up. And there's only four clues. To if you're going to one shot kill this one, it's, it's time. Not really scared. Clue one. I am the last person from Team X to wear the number six uniform, having been grandfathered in along with a handful of other players across the leaguewhen the NBA retired the number in honor of Bill Russell in August 2022. I'm so bad with numbers.

Speaker 27031s - 7045.62s

Like I bet you could give me if you said, ooh, that's going to be a stat padding segment. Hey, oh my God. Say like,tell me the numbers of everyone that made like an all NBA team this year of the 15 guys, I might get like four.

Speaker 37045.92s - 7053.78s

Like I just, I'm so bad at, I'm so bad at the numbers. I never remember. I'm bad at knowing who went to what college. That would be me with, I would just be Ofer PERSON.

Speaker 27054.9s - 7057.06s

Suffice to say, I'm going to need another clue.

Speaker 37057.78s - 7059.06s

You're not going to get it on this one.

Speaker 27059.9s - 7061.34s

There's only two after this.

Speaker 37062.08s - 7070.32s

Clue to, my half brother Tyler Myers PERSON, plays for the Vancouver Canucks ORG, making us the only pair of brothers to play in the NHL and NBA ORG. Oh.

Speaker 27071.82s - 7080.1s

I'm guessing Myers PERSON is not this person's last name. Because that would be too easy, and you said I wouldn't get it.

Speaker 37081.42s - 7086.66s

Is there anyone with the last name Myers in the NBA ORG right now? Not even Bob is working in the NBA ORG.

Speaker 27086.66s - 7101.08s

No, Pete Myers was like a Bulls ORG assistant coach and played for the Bulls. I don't know where he went. Myers PERSON. It's not Myers Leonard PERSON. That would be exciting. Not for some people.

Speaker 37101.72s - 7104.04s

I don't have it.

Speaker 27104.72s - 7105.28s

Clue three. I was part of a draft day deal between Team X and the't have it. Clue three.

Speaker 37105.82s - 7122.24s

I was part of a draft day deal between Team X and the L.A. Clippers. The Clippers got Keon Johnson while Team X got me and a 2024 second rounder. Incidentally, Keon Johnson was one of the other people grandfathered into wearing the number six jersey. Okay, wait.

Speaker 27122.24s - 7128.84s

So this guy goes to the Clippers for Keon Johnson PERSON.

Speaker 37128.84s - 7133.24s

So he's going from Portland, right?

Speaker 27134.06s - 7137.5s

The Clippers got Keon Johnson PERSON and Team X.

Speaker 37138.08s - 7139.34s

I'm sorry, he's going.

Speaker 27140s - 7148.18s

This player, I almost said his name, is going to Team X in exchange for the pick that became Keon Johnson and a 2024.

Speaker 37150.94s - 7156.22s

This player and a 2024 second rounder got the clippers Keon Johnson PERSON.

Speaker 27157.12s - 7159.9s

So this guy is on the clip?

Speaker 37159.9s - 7160.82s

No, he's on.

Speaker 47160.94s - 7162.84s

No, it's the rights to the pick.

Speaker 37164s - 7165.88s

I don't remember this.

Speaker 27165.88s - 7169.22s

The next clue is the one that will break my heart if you don't get it.

Speaker 37169.52s - 7170.1s

Oh, great.

Speaker 27170.22s - 7172.46s

Okay, let's just get to it then, because I don't know it yet.

Speaker 37173.74s - 7174.26s

Clue four.

Speaker 27174.44s - 7179.12s

At the trade deadline this season, Team X ORG dealt me and a bunch of end of rotation players,

Speaker 37179.62s - 7185.44s

but don't tell this Team X superfan slash ESPN ORG pundit slash professional yeller.

Speaker 27185.62s - 7188.54s

He doesn't seem to know yet, and we would like to keep it that way.

Speaker 37189.38s - 7189.86s

Oh.

Speaker 27191.66s - 7191.98s

Oh.

Speaker 37193.92s - 7196.56s

I know who did Stephen A. not PERSON.

Speaker 27196.72s - 7198.16s

Is it, is it Quentin Grimes?

Speaker 37198.5s - 7199.4s

That is correct.

Speaker 27199.56s - 7200.34s

Oh, thank God PERSON.

Speaker 37200.34s - 7203.4s

You still, I retain my affinity for you.

Speaker 27203.54s - 7204.62s

My respect's a little bit lower.

Speaker 37204.78s - 7206.7s

I feel like you should have known the Keon Johnson PERSON trade, but.

Speaker 27206.84s - 7212.78s

No, I, that's, that was, I was, I hadn't even have a guess for that one.

Speaker 37213.44s - 7213.66s

Okay.

Speaker 27213.76s - 7223.6s

Man, that was intense. I don't know. I didn't enjoy how that made me feel. That was hard. All right. You want another one?Oh, yeah.

Speaker 37223.64s - 7224.3s

Let's do one more each.

Speaker 27224.84s - 7235.92s

Let's see. All right. Also from Mike. I Oh, yeah. Let's do one more each. Let's see. All right. Also from Mike. I was drafted in the lottery in 2011 by the Jazz ORG. You have a decent one-shot kill chance here.

Speaker 37236.6s - 7241.64s

I was drafted in the lottery in 2011. Derek Favors PERSON.

Speaker 27242.44s - 7245.84s

No, that's a good, good guess. Oh,

Speaker 37245.9s - 7246.72s

he was 2010,

Speaker 27246.94s - 7249.1s

wasn't he? I don't know when he was.

Speaker 37249.18s - 7251.68s

Yeah, because he was flipped the same year, Mello PERSON was,

Speaker 27251.84s - 7267.84s

which was 2011, so he would have been the 2010 class. Clue number two. My first two seasons were virtually identicalposting almost the exact same stats and shooting percentages. Don't think that's going to help you. You want to take a two-shot kill attempt?

Speaker 37267.92s - 7269.24s

Oh, that's it? Yeah.

Speaker 27269.88s - 7270.56s

Gordon Hayward?

Speaker 37271.14s - 7271.4s

Nope.

Speaker 27272.98s - 7279.2s

Clue three. I doubled my scoring average in season three, averaging 14 a night and becoming a valuable bench player.

Speaker 37281.04s - 7290.3s

Still on the jazz, I take it, since there was nothing about the trade. So we're 2011 to us. We're like 2013 with the jazz, I take it since there was nothing about the trade. So we're 2011 to us. We're like 2013 with the jazz, 2014-ish.

Speaker 27290.76s - 7293.8s

Like that'll help me? Yeah.

Speaker 37294.6s - 7294.88s

Okay.

Speaker 27295.6s - 7317.54s

Clue for, I became a starter in year four, but broke my leg, leaving me to only play in 27 games. Following season, I had ankle surgery, once again, limiting my playing time to only 31 games. This led to me slowly falling out of the rotation over the next three seasons. Too early for way too early for Dante X PERSON-um.

Speaker 37320.24s - 7322.76s

Yeah, I got nothing. Clue 5.

Speaker 27322.76s - 7345.34s

In 2018, I was traded to Cleveland for Kyle Corver, where I would play 34 games starting 24. I was then traded at the deadline that same season in a three-team trade that saw the Cavs acquire Marquis Chris, Nick Stouskis, and Brandon Knight PERSON. I went to Sacramento ORG. The Rockets acquired him on Shumpert PERSON in this deal as well. What year is this?

Speaker 37345.64s - 7346.4s

This is 18.

Speaker 27346.6s - 7353.9s

I did not remember this guy playing in Sacramento ORG. Now I do, but that's the jazz.

Speaker 37355.7s - 7357.94s

No, I should know this one and I don't.

Speaker 27359.5s - 7373.82s

Well, so yeah, Jazz Cavs ORG, Kings is the team order so far. The clue six makes me feel better. I played in 13 games for Sacramento, averaging one point a game. Pretty forgettable. Yeah, that's not going to help me.

Speaker 37374.9s - 7377.42s

Clue 7, I think you might warm up here.

Speaker 27377.98s - 7400.84s

I signed with the Warriors in 2019, playing in 48 games and averaging a career high 16 points a game, rejuvenating my career on a warrior's team in turmoil. I was able to turn the success into getting traded to the Sixers ORG at the deadline, mere weeks before the pandemic screwed up the NBA ORG season. Is this Alec Berks PERSON? It is Alec Berks PERSON.Very good. My God, he's been around.

Speaker 37400.94s - 7401.7s

I'm getting old.

Speaker 27402.08s - 7402.54s

He's been around.

Speaker 37404.34s - 7405.82s

And then you would have got it here.

Speaker 27405.9s - 7425.2s

In 2020, I signed a one year, $6 million contract with the Knicks and went on average 12 a game, prompting me to re-sign for three years, 30 million playing career out 81 games following season.Was he on one of the units? Remember the year where like the Knicks ORG starters just got housed every game and the reserves had like this massively positive net rating? And we're all just like

Speaker 37425.2s - 7430.18s

which season was that was there more than one there was one that i feel like i wrote about it like

Speaker 27430.18s - 7436.72s

every week whenever you had to say something about the nix uh nine ultimately it wasn't good enough for

Speaker 37436.72s - 7441.72s

the nix i was moved on draft night to detroit uh for the draft guy rights of some guy who's not yet

Speaker 27441.72s - 7458.52s

played in the NBA ORG uh and also the cap space to sign some guy named Jalen Brunson PERSON. Ten, I would play the next season and a half with the hapless Pistons averaging 12 a game before being reacquired by the Knicks at the 24 deadline alongside Boyam Bogdanovich PERSON.Those were good. That was a good pull.

Speaker 37459.94s - 7472.64s

Let's have another one for you. This one is also for Mike. Clue one. I was drafted out of high school, out of high school in 1990, in 1998 outside of the lottery. High school 98?

Speaker 27477.24s - 7500.68s

Hmm. Oh, 98. Who else is drafted in 98? Hmm. I want to try a one-shot kill, but I'm just, I'm like blanking on anybody that might be there in 98. I don't have it.Clue two.

Speaker 37500.98s - 7505.5s

At the time, I was the first player to be born in the 1980s drafted in the NBA ORG. Still don't have it. Clue three. I was a bit player in my first two. At the time, I was the first player to be born in the 1980s drafted in the NBA.

Speaker 27506.76s - 7507.6s

Still don't have it.

Speaker 37508.14s - 7518.04s

Clue three, I was a bit player in my first two seasons, but in year three, I started to feature more, starting 38 games and playing in 78, averaging seven and a half points and four rebounds a game.

Speaker 27518.6s - 7519.6s

That's not going to help you.

Speaker 37520.08s - 7524.02s

No. Deshaun Stevenson PERSON? I know we've had him before.

Speaker 27524.02s - 7525.58s

No, respectable guess, though. Okay. Yeah, I don't know we've had him before. No, I've been a respectable guess though.

Speaker 37526.18s - 7526.98s

Okay. Yeah, I don't.

Speaker 27528.1s - 7534.62s

Clue four. The following season, I up my scoring to 13.1 points but missed the last 38 games of the season with knee injury.

Speaker 37536.62s - 7547.86s

Sorry, give me that one more time? The following season, I up my scoring to 13.1 points, but missed the last 38 games of the season with a knee injury. 13.1 points but missed the last 38 games of the season with a knee injury.

Speaker 27548.42s - 7560.64s

98. Let's see. I want to say, Darius Miles was like the third pick or something. So I don't think, right? He wasn't outside the lottery.

Speaker 37560.76s - 7561.1s

Not him.

Speaker 27561.56s - 7570.26s

Not him. It's not. I think Dermar Johnson PERSON was in the lottery.

Speaker 37570.8s - 7573.14s

So it's not him either if that's any consolation.

Speaker 27573.6s - 7584.2s

98. That's such a, I can't, I can't remember, I need to remember like who the first pick in 98 was and I can't. So I have like no, I don't know where we are. Uh, okay, next clue, please.

Speaker 37587s - 7587.3s

Clue five, the next season I came back with a vengeance,

Speaker 27589.64s - 7591s

finishing second and sixth man of the year voting.

Speaker 37591.4s - 7592.28s

Oh.

Speaker 27595.74s - 7611.64s

Outside the lottery in 98, good sixth man. And we're in like, we don't know, we're in like his fourth or fifth year, so it's early 2000s. Yes. Good sixth man.14. Did you give me a scoring average from the year before when he got her was like 14?

Speaker 37612.56s - 7615.08s

13.1.

Speaker 27616.3s - 7617.24s

I do not have it.

Speaker 37618.04s - 7627.52s

Clue 6. Two seasons later, I was traded to Atlanta for Stephen Jackson PERSON and in an alternate universe. If that trade never happens, the malice at the palace never takes place.

Speaker 27630.64s - 7635.48s

I was traded to Atlanta for Stephen Jackson PERSON. Oh, I should probably have it by now, shouldn't I?

Speaker 37636.08s - 7644.2s

Outside the lottery. I think these next couple clues will be where you get it. It can't, no.

Speaker 47648.22s - 7649.16s

It's 98, no. It's, it's, it's,

Speaker 27649.16s - 7651.24s

98 is way too early for Lou Williams PERSON.

Speaker 47651.38s - 7652.54s

It's not, Lou Williams PERSON, I think,

Speaker 27652.54s - 7659.4s

you know, traded to Atlanta from Indiana GPE, right?

Speaker 47660.32s - 7661.26s

Who the hell?

Speaker 27664.08s - 7666.34s

This is, this is really starting to bother me.

Speaker 37666.46s - 7668.02s

I should probably have it by now.

Speaker 27669.66s - 7670.6s

Ready for glue seven?

Speaker 47670.72s - 7671.64s

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 27671.98s - 7673.66s

I was a starter for the Hawks for two years,

Speaker 37673.7s - 7677.66s

but didn't have the same success. I was traded back to the Pacers for a first round pick.

Speaker 27678.44s - 7690.12s

Are we sure this isn't from Austin? Indiana to Atlanta to Indiana for a first round pick. That's this is bad.

Speaker 47691.92s - 7692.28s

Kuwait GPE?

Speaker 27693.24s - 7693.62s

Yeah.

Speaker 37694.34s - 7715.56s

Six months after being reacquired by the Pacers ORG, I was sent out to the Warriors and a deal involving eight players and zero draft picks. Also going with me were Zerunis Yaskavicious PERSON, Stephen Jackson PERSON Jackson Josh Powell and in exchange Mike Dunleavy Jr.Troy Murphy PERSON, Keith McLeod and Ike Diogo ended up in Indiana GPE. All right.

Speaker 27715.74s - 7720.12s

So that's, yeah, that's the, didn't the Warriors get out Harrington in that one too?

Speaker 37720.5s - 7723.06s

That is correct. Nice.

Speaker 27723.06s - 7725.04s

He was a high school pick.

Speaker 37725.76s - 7728.54s

So you also had this one might have helped you too.

Speaker 27729.28s - 7732.42s

Nine months later, I was traded for Jamal Crawford and moved that something to the Knicks ORG.

Speaker 37733s - 7759.62s

Klu-Tan was far better for the Knicks than I was for the Warriors as I average about 19 points a game at NYC over two seasons. I signed a multi-year deal with Denver but was traded after two seasons in the Dwight Howard PERSON trade. And then went to Orlando, but only lasted a season before being waived. The next season, I would help the Wizards make their first playoff appearance in five years. And then final clue, I played a season in China, followed by a season in Australia GPE before retiring to be a cannabis advocate.And also as of 2021, I was an assistant coach with the South African Basketball League ORG.

Speaker 27759.62s - 7766.82s

Oh, wow. Okay. Man, I forgot about the, like did the indie Atlanta ORG indie like loop.

Speaker 37767.42s - 7768.94s

I forgot about that loop too.

Speaker 27769.4s - 7790.94s

Yeah. That's what he must not have been. Well, you said he was in Atlanta for two years. Okay. Man, good one. Are you ready to take us out of here? Yes. Thank you for listening. Thank you for contributing. Boy, we had the two hour mark too.Thank you for listening to this point. If you did that, you're a hero. Special request this week because Dan has been shadow banned on Twitter ORG because he's a

Speaker 37790.94s - 7794.78s

rap. That's what the kids are calling it anyway. Apparently I have a spam account. You're a spammer.

Speaker 27794.94s - 7816.96s

I've always thought that about you. You're, that's just, it's pretty obvious. You deserved it. It's been a long time coming. No, that emphasizes or the importance of word of mouth. Tell your friends. Tell your enemies about the podcast. Rate review, subscribe until Dan PERSON gets reinstated. Just like, you know, tweet at Elon PERSON and see if he can just handle that for you.

Speaker 37817.32s - 7819.64s

Or like to tell people about us. Share links.

Speaker 27819.9s - 7838.64s

Do that. Yeah, do that too. If you want to be able to contribute guest players, batting all that stuff, join our Discord and links for that in YouTube ORG that too. If you want to be able to contribute guest players, stat batting all that stuff, join our Discord and links for that YouTube ORG and podcast description. Same place you can find links for our merch.And I think that's going to do it. We close as usual with a shout for Frank Milikina and an apology for Jared Allen PERSON. We're trying to trade.