Destiny 3 Rumors Loom Ahead of The Final Shape - Fireteam Chat

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Welcome to Fire Team Chat, IGN's Destiny Show ORG. Thank you so much for joining us. Joining me on this episode is Travis PERSON. Travis, McClunky PERSON.

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And Paul Tassie PERSON is here.

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Paul PERSON, thank you for coming back and joining the show for this episode.

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It's so great to be back. I'm happy where we've seen a resurgence here.

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Yeah, the first episode did okay. So if you do like Fire Team ORG chat, continue sharing it, continue talking about it, and the show will continue. As long as there's news anyway. And there's a lot of news this week, including a story that, Paul PERSON, you resurfaced an old Reddit thread about Destiny 3 PRODUCT. I think we're going to start with that. We're going to talk about our overall impressions of the onslaught activity. And the raid being on launch week is a little controversial. But let's start with the big one. D3, Destiny 3. Paul PERSON, I have thequotes pulled out on the run of show. But if you want to take us through seeing it was your story,

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what's the big takeaway from this one? So this all started with a Reddit posting from about a month ago, and, you know, no one really thought too much of it at the time because you don't really use Reddit ORG quotes for sourcing. But this person, it turns out, predicted the prismatic subclass. Well not predicted. They had apparently inside knowledge of it about a month before premiere and kind of surprised everyone. And as such, it felt like we should probably take the next thing they said somewhat seriously about how Destiny 3 PRODUCT is in development.I think one of the items there was that they are, Prismatic PRODUCT is sort of a test for dismantling the idea of subclasses and sort of letting people use whatever they want. Later, they posted some like inside Bungy ORG stuff about character creation that was like kind of identical to stuff I'd heard from people in bungee and so that I don't know it all seemed to line up to me and other than the base logic that you know of course I would hope they're making destiny three that seemed to be kind of a more concrete you know touchstone about it so my question

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is do you think it is time for Destiny 3 PRODUCT or should they pull a World of Warcraft PRODUCT and sort of just update the engine? So we're not like downloading a separate game like we did with Destiny 1 and having that separation. Travis PERSON, what are your thoughts about the fact that Destiny 3 PRODUCT is in development and how should it be presented in your opinion?

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Yeah, normally I don't think you need a new game to keep it going, especially if there's a lot of health behind your original game. But I do think destiny's probably in a special position. One, it just sort of makes sense with the timing of where we're at in the story and the end of the Darkness and Light saga. Two, they've got the, you know, technical overhaul, which you can do on the same game. But it's, you know, it's not super easy to switch out the parts while the train is still in motion. And then the other thing is just, which you can do on the same game, but it's, you know, it's, it's not super easy to, uh, switch out the parts while the train is still in motion. Um, and then the other thing is just that,you know, destiny has, uh, its player base has sort of, uh, uh, changed over the years. I mean, the, the existence of the show or lack thereof for years, I think is an indication of, uh, kind of interest in the game. And I, I know I have lots of, uh, former destiny friends who tell me, yeah, I'm just going to wait for Destiny 3 PRODUCT to jump back in, right? Like they say that a lot, not knowing anything about it. They just kind of assume that there's going to be a sequel. And so I think it could be beneficial. I could also see them not doing that. I think they should make whatever decision is best for their team. And I would be okay with either, but certainly the prospect of a Destiny 3 PRODUCT does excite me.And I agree, I think, prismatic with what Paul PERSON said, I mean, you can kind of just see the writing on the wall in terms of like, this is a test bed for a future where guardians are subclassless, and it's more about mixing and matching light and darkness powers,which is sort of the fantasy of the Guardian ORG post light and darkness saga. So I'm super interested in that sort of stuff. And I think either way, even if we don't get a proper Destiny 3 in title, I think destiny is going to change so much in the years after the final shape that it's effectively going to be a Destiny 3 PRODUCT either way. Because I sort of see us heading in that direction of a subclassless future and I think it's it could be

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has a lot of potential I like that a lot I would push back against your narrative that the player base was lower I do think a lot of long time fans myself included barely played I would play at the end of every season and go through all the seasonal content because I've still been capturing it even though I I said I wasn't going to.

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I like can't help myself. And I think I am going to put those out again.

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But anyway, point being, Lightfall ORG was like the highest player base, even though it was the most panned, right? Most people didn't like it. So I do agree that if a Destiny 3 PRODUCT were to come out, I do think there would be a lot of organic interest and that would be great. But I disagree with the notionthat it had a low player count or something because the one that's regarded the least favorably, Lightfall ORG had the highest player count.

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Paul PERSON, what are your thoughts on those? Sorry, go ahead, Travis PERSON. During the year, it did end up having, like, it dropped off so much from Lightfall ORG, like we are seeing all-time lows the past couple of months for sure. So that was awhole roller coaster where it looked like oh destiny's reaching its apex and then lightfall PRODUCT was just so bad

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that it tanked everything um i've been on team destiny three for a while like i think it's in

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inevitability i think we absolutely need some sort of clean slate at this point i think you're you're getting close to doing all you can do within the current system, both in terms of the volume of stuff people have at this point, the ability to kind of evolve your game. Maybe if not from a gameplay perspective, like at some point, you're going to have to like update the game visually to keep pace with, you know, all your existing competition. However, it's not like Destiny 3 is going to get here tomorrow.So whether or not it's in development, like if it is in development, it's still not going to be here for a number of years. And my prediction has always been that Destiny 2 PRODUCT will continue on in some form or another, whether it's just episodes, whether it's episodes and expansions, for I would say at least three more years. And my prediction is when the rollover happens to PS6 and Xbox PRODUCT whatever, which willexist in three or four more years or whatever it's going to be, that would kind of be a logical transition point. I don't know if they're not going to build it in Unreal 5 PRODUCT or something, but like they need both a technology and conceptual overhaul because I know everyone wants to compare this to World of Warcraft PRODUCT. Like, it's an MMO.You can still, you know, everything in, in wow, you can just start from the beginning and go all the way through and Final Fantasy 14 PRODUCT. But destiny's already, that ship is sailed for destiny. Like, Destiny 1 PRODUCT is a separate game already. Destiny 2 carved out, you know, three years of content, two years of content, and then you miss all the seasons in between every expansion. Like they need a starting point that is a real starting point for new players,not a new light quest, not jumping into onslaught, which is free to play, like a fully new start if they want to, you know, veteran players would be back for Destiny 3 PRODUCT. They can say they wouldn't be, but they would be. That would also be a good jumping off point for a bunch of new players that, I don't know, were like 10 years old when Destiny 1 PRODUCT came out and like it's a new, new generation or whatever.So it does seem both, you know, logical and necessary to me that Destiny 3 PRODUCT will happen. I just don't think it's going to be for, you know, probably for three, four or five years.

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Yeah, I do wonder like if I would go back into Destiny 3 PRODUCT or if I can just kind of, like, sunset my time with Destiny PRODUCT around the end.

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Oh, you would. Don't give me that.

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I mean, I would, if I, like, come on. When's it coming up in five years?

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Yeah, my argument is here, Paul, for Destiny 3 PRODUCT, because I hear a lot of people say, like,

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you know, I'm going to retire after the final shape because they've been here for 10 years and they kind of want to cap it off. And so I can definitely see what you're

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saying, Paul PERSON, like I certainly, if I were one of those people who said that I wasn't going to

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play a destiny after final shape, which I'm not. But if I were, I wouldn't have the willpower

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to just not play Destiny 3 PRODUCT. It's just not going to happen. It's different between like the final shape ending. There's going to be a huge drop off after the final shape for sure.

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Because you're just transitioning into these episodes that are disconnected stories.

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Nobody really knows where things are going. Maybe they'll announce an expansion like or something. But absolutely.

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There will be a drop off of final shape. But I would, yeah, say an episode, coming back for an episode is different than coming back from Destiny 3 PRODUCT. I think that's a whole different.

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A couple of variables though that would maybe make me disagree with you. I think if the final shape isn't good, I think that's a really big, you know, that could just be like, all right, yeah, I'm out. Like I spent 10 years and the climax wasn't worth it.I'm not going to touch it again.

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And even if it is good, you always run the risk of like a Infinity War MCU thing, right? Where there was this peak player base when that whole Thanos PERSON arc ended and then nobody seemed to care about the next arc that they worked on. And so there's always that burnout kind of possibility.

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So you never know with these things, but I would say the number one thing they could do to make it more likely that people would come back for Destiny 3 when there is a presumable drop off after Final Shape WORK_OF_ART is make Final Shape kick ass. If it kicks ass, I think you really improve your odds of people sticking with the series.

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If Final Shape sucks, I think Bunchy ORG's like dead. Yeah.

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I don't think we can afford it. You know, we don't three fours. If Final Shape WORK_OF_ART doesn't

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deliver, if people totally check out of episodes and just revenue tanks and like if Marathon WORK_OF_ART isn't like, this is a little separate than like the will bunchy survive question i think we just have to like let's assume for the sake of doubt yeah survives but i think but i think they will

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but who's going to be at the helm no matter what is it going to be current leadership or is it going

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to be sony PERSON taking over and saying you've had your run you know that's the question that looms

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in the air you know based on the layoffs and such.

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So I hear your point there, Paul PERSON.

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Personally, I'd be fine with a Destiny 3 PRODUCT.

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I don't think Destiny 2 really needs to rush, though, to make a Destiny 3 PRODUCT.

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And on the final shape topic, you two were going into there, I would actually argue that I'm a little concerned about the systems in place because we've been doing daily bounties and weekly bounties.

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And granted, that's a staple.

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But a new player coming in, I elapsed for about a year.

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And I came in and even I'm like, I have like 20 exotics weapons that I don't have.

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I have no idea where to farm those or to get those.

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Some of these missions are on Rotator PRODUCT now.

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I actually tried out Fire Team Finder PRODUCT a bunch and it ended up being better than my first

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experience with it.

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So I have to take that statement back from the last episode.

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It's kind of great and that's going out of beta.

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But the new player experience is terrible and it's still terrible.

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And Bungee just can't seem to figure out how to get new players into it.

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I do like the timeline thing.

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And the thing about Destiny 3 PRODUCT would be, it would be a fresh starting point for any of those guardians or players who are either returning and have lapsed in Destiny 2 or you're just new to the franchise. And that's a fresh starting point for the series. I also don't think they would call it Destiny 3 PRODUCT.They would probably call it something unique. And I have to wonder if you would just install the same clients or if it just like Destiny drops the two, like how they handle that aspect of it. But I mean based on the rumors and the fact that Bungee obviously needs to make money, I do think it seems obvious that they make a three. And then the larger question is like, is it a complete reset or is it something different? So what are your thoughts on that? Do you think they just completely reset and do a new client? So new weapons, you're starting from scratch again.Or do you think they do something where they drop the two? We had this same conversation before two came out

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and I'm just curious to hear your thoughts. So Paul PERSON, let's start with you, I suppose. I think they're going to do a three. I know this idea of like just dropping the number doing world of destiny or whatever, but like sequel sell. And I think, you know, this is something from the Activision days. The problem with Activision was they wanted a sequel like every two years, which is nuts. Like, but after seven, eight, nine years, whatever it's going to be. Putting a three on the end is probably better than just being like destiny colon horizons or I don't know, some bullshit.Like it's something that I think they're going to end up doing in terms of it being a reset versus not a reset. I really do want it to be a reset because again, I think half the problem with Destiny 2 PRODUCT is that just all of these systems and inventory and all of the stuff has just been built up so much over time that I just, I don't think you can carry that forward forever or you can yell at me about wow or whatever, but like I don't think this game is built for that and we've already seen a lot of suffering because of that. That said, what I would be concerned about with Destiny 3 is they just spend the next five years back,everything from Destiny 1 and 2 for the fourth and fifth time.

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And one of my stipulations would be like the overwhelming vast majority of everything would have to be new.

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Like don't just, you know, Destiny 2 PRODUCT weapon models, like, and put those in with modifications. Don't just spend all this time, like, trickling back old weapons and stuff. Like, if you're going to do, if you're going to port over Destiny 2 stuff or Destiny 1 PRODUCT, so do a ton of it at the beginning and then don't just, like, make it this trickled out content. So that would be my one concern with a fresh start is that it wouldn't really be a fresh start and they try to like kind of cheat just by by porting in all the old stuff in some form or another. We've seen that to a certain extent in Destiny 2 PRODUCT, but I wouldn'twant it to end then just have them do it all over again anyway. So while I don't think keeping everything is sustainable, I'm a little concerned about them just doing that in a reset too.

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Yeah, because they're doing that right now with Destiny 2 PRODUCT. And like I have my list of things I haven't experienced yet. And it's like dark below. Why haven't I run Dark Below yet? Because I did it 900 times in Destiny 1 PRODUCT. So I realized there's stuff in there that I probably would want to get. Even the Taken King, which is fantastic and touch of malice is in there. It's like I've done that grind before. I want the new stuff, not the stuff that I already had but um what are your thoughts Travis

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yeah i think i think we get a destiny three and i think if we do i think it's called destiny three just because i don't think you can put a subtitle when all of your expansions and seasons

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are subtitles of you know destiny or whatever yeah it's probably just too confusing uh so i think they'll probably put a three on it. I do hope it's a fresh start. Paul PERSON's point of them basically just retreading and me earning hung jury for the seventh time in Destiny 3 is 100% something I worry about. I think they would need to justify it both in lore. Like what are our guardians doing that requires us to give up? Are we leaving the soul system and going out exploring?And so we're kind of leaving the tower behind. Is that the reason? And then the other thing I worry about in addition to them reintroducing the same old armor and weapons in a new game is the kind of pulling back of the feature set that they then

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have to re-release, right? Like we saw that with Destiny 2, Vanilla, where they took features out of Destiny 1 PRODUCT, and then they reintroduced them over years in Destiny 2 PRODUCT. And so I really wouldn't want us to like, all right, Destiny 3 PRODUCT doesn't have crafting, and then we get crafting a year into Destiny 3 PRODUCT.And that's sort of like reintroducing of all of the mechanics that we earned, you know,

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over the- To double primaries and consumer shader. Yeah, exactly. We're just going to have to learn all the same old lessons again. And I really hope it's not that. I don't think they will do that.But it will be interesting. And I think, you know, a subclassless world certainly calls for a new game. It's a whole new sandbox. I don't know if you can take apart pieces of the current Destiny PRODUCT sandbox and build to that.

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So it'll be interesting. I hear you. I don't want to go back to where we were at Destiny 2 PRODUCT launch. Like they've done, they've learned so many lessons. They've done so many positive quality of life things. I absolutely agree with you, Travis PERSON.I don't want to go back to that. I mean, I have a whole video where I talked about why I stopped playing. And it's because you're just doing the same stuff all the time, and it was so fatiguing because every season it was Unlocked the Squares PRODUCT. Granted, they've changed it up a little bit, and for me, I just focus on the story content,and I don't worry too much about the grind to get the best weapons, because if you're a long-time player, like you already have a lot of the weapons, and I think that's part of the fatigue, too. there's archetypes that a lot of players end up having granted there's some strand weapons that do some cool stuff and there's some exotics that do some cool stuff that you should probably be hunting for but a lot of them are reprisals like whisper WORK_OF_ART so whisper was just reintroduced as a quest and it's the same great quest. There's some interesting stuff that you can do.Like you got to shoot these taken blights. There's some workles that you can find within the mission. And I unlocked a white nail for the first week. So I basically have the God PERSON roll already because it was super easy to get.

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You just shoot the thing and it like unlocks a bunch of perks.

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So I like that sort of stuff, but we've done it

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before. So I agree with you both that we do need something different. So much of the game for the past like however many years has just been like fixing content bolting. Like so much of it is just

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like I don't I don't have any desire really to go back and run whispers your hour more than once for nostalgia. But those missions should be in the game. If you are a new player, you should be able to experience the best missions destiny has ever done. It's just they're spending all this work, doing everything when they took everything out in the first place. And like that's just, it's never ending.

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So like just we got to stop at some point here and just fixing, you know, the problems

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that happened a few years ago. Like it's, that's half the content these days. And it's, I don't think that's a good way to keep going. Yeah, the philosophy was the game install size is getting too big. It's like, call duty is like 200 gigs. Who cares?You know, Destiny's 110 or something like that. Like, that's the standard for games, though.

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So I think their, their argument, though, is that it was taking, it was making loading last, like a really long time. It was having, like, technical.

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There's a lot of technical stuff. Like, behind the scenes that it was making loading last, like, a really long time. It was having, like, technical. There's a lot of technical stuff. Like, behind the scenes, it was taking longer.

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And, like, I don't, like, I know there were.

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I don't get, I don't get what the issue is.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, it doesn't necessarily make it good or player friendly.

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And then there's the whole microtransaction conversation that, you know, was happening a few months back.

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But let's move on to something a little bit more positive because I think the new

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onslaught mode, and more specifically tied to the onslaught mode, is weapon attuning, which

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is basically a way where you can attune to a weapon and say, I want more drops of this

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thing.

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And then you go run the activity and you have basically a 50% chance of getting that gun

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or a different one.

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And it's kind of great. I also did the farm. I did all the quests for the weapons thinking reckless would be good. It's not. Don't worry about reckless. Worry about mountaintop FAC and worry about midnight coupbecause midnight coup has some nutty, nutty roles. I'm enjoying onslaught. I haven't done through Wave 50 yet because I just, I just like to play slow of you guys. I appreciate you

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both but can't play onslaught slow yeah yeah counter to everything onsla well we got to like rank 42

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but then nobody shot the guy nuking the point except for me and I'm like we got to kill this thing

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and we're going to lose so I really like onslaught and I especially really like weapon attuning so

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my overall impression is pretty positive about these changes.

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It's unfortunate that the area is going to go away in June, but I do like onslaught and I like the target farm. I started with Paul PERSON last time. Travis PERSON, we'll start with you. What are your thoughts about onslaught and the new modes, new options, I should say?

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I think onslaught is cool.

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It is extremely not for me as a mode. I actually like the the game type like a horde mode where you're doing kind of a tower defense thing in theory I just think how it was implemented in this iteration is very 1.0 feeling you know the the turrets barely do anything the mines are basically useless the decoys are cool but you're kind of just you know mindlessly shooting for 90 minutes at the same targets until you get the same five weapons to drop for you.And I'd never really liked the whole random role, do the same activity a hundred times and try to get like a shiny. I think it's super cool that it's there for the really hardcore people who like, who are just, you know, are looking for reasons to grind and destiny. like, who are just, you know, are looking for reasons to grind and destiny. I'm the sort of guy who like wants a role that's good enough and wants the exotics and the catalysts, but doesn't need to do the same activity 50 times in hopes of getting like a different colored gun. And so for me, it's very like, cool. I know that there's lots of really hardcore grind, uh, grinds loving people who like that mode,but I got in there, I maybe got to wave 50 a couple times, and then I was like, all right, I'm good. I'm out.I don't want to keep doing this. So,

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yeah.

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Yeah,

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I got a Firefly PRODUCT one for all with extended Meg and compensator. So I'm feeling pretty good.

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Not bad.

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Oh,

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polygonal rifling was the other one, so more stability. Yeah, I got a pretty big.

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But is it shiny, Dustin PERSON?

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What?

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But is it shiny?

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I've not gotten a single shiny, but I only ran like the.

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Doesn't matter. It needs to be shiny.

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Yeah.

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It has to be shining.

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Sorry.

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No, like, what does the shiny even do? So I read about it. It's like you just. It does nothing. Like it's,

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that's why I like it because people can't complain about the grind because it is functionally useless. It just,

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it gives you a better chance of getting the perks you want because there's four perks, but like,

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and you could maybe switch from one type of role to another, but like how often does that happen?

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There's a look to the shinies too, right? Like there's some indicator.

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Yeah, it's a unique look. That's like the main point is that it's, you know, has that.

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Okay. Well, I did the quest and they got the gold bear.

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I don't know what they look like. And I'm a little confused by what the shiny is if you do the quest it's that one like it's the one he gives you well then i have a curated role that always

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sucks so those don't come well i have all the shinies from the quest then i guess so yay i did

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you can dismantle those but i got a mountup. It's okay. Paul PERSON, what do you think about onslaught and the weapon attuning? I love it. I really do. I get what Travis PERSON is saying. And like it can be very repetitive. And I do think it has some issues. The defenses are very one point out. He's right. Like there need to be more. They need to be more effective.The way, you know, bits or whatever they're called, things to spend them on are distributed, needs some work. But I really like the fact that it's both sort of challenging and not challenging. Like you can kind of skip the first 25 waves on normal. So it just extends the time to an hour in a way that can be uncomfortable because not everyone, you know, from running in and out or my wife needs me to get her a glass of water. Like I can't, you know, really just pause it. Or like it's not like a raid encounter where you can be like, hey, bros, like it's just the clock is always running almostall the time unless you're kind of right before a boss or something. I like it because it's, it feels like a way to try out a bunch of different builds that are fun and effective in like both mass mob clearing and bus CPS like with things that you probably could not experiment with in a lot of other activities that's less true for legend especially higher levels of legend where you sort of do have to lean into the meta in order to not like tear your hair out but again I think you know doing legend 50 clears is pretty you you know, top whatever percent of the population.And that's not what most people are doing. The maps, it's a little weird that you can choose your maps. I think it's good because I really hate mothyards. I think that's a terrible setup for a map because it's so big, it's so open.

Speaker 01498.74s - 1500.04s

Enemies hide under things.

Speaker 31500.04s - 1522.76s

And like it takes at least 15 to 20 minutes longer than any other run. So I'm just never, ever going to do that. So I'm mostly doing Midtown FAC. So I think it could use some work from a level and level design perspective. Like if they were designing maps specifically for this, that would be nice. But obviously we had to use, you know, crucible maps or patrol zones because there's a limited time here to actually do this stuff.Nice, nice mountain top gameplay here.

Speaker 41522.78s - 1523.16s

That's right.

Speaker 31524.46s - 1525.42s

I just found it. In terms of the weapon attunement, so this has been my, nice mountain top gameplay here. That's right. I just found it.

Speaker 41525.5s - 1530.32s

In terms of the weapon attunement, so this has been my big sort of like counter crafting case,

Speaker 31530.32s - 1584.82s

whereas like I think this is a good example of why I don't think we need maybe as much crafting as we rely on now. I think there are ways to solve crafting. One of them is something like attunement, like a 50% drop rate of a weapon per chest. Like it doesn't work with everything. Like it doesn't work with Shaq PERSON's stuff or like, I don't know if it works with his chest. I don't think it does, but like a 50% drop rate on the weapon you're looking five times in a run, if not more. That's pretty good. And, you know,the shiny thing, those give you double perks. Like we've had other things in the past where double perks have not been that rare, but that's another kind of mitigating factor. Also, these weapons are going to combat the idea that all crafted weapons are automatically better because you are going to be able to enhance these perks. So, yes, the shiny grind is insane. Like, it's like a, you know, 1% drop or whatever.It sucks if it's going away. That is one thing.

Speaker 41584.96s - 1590.16s

I can't really get over. Like, I get why they're doing it but it sucks and like time like

Speaker 51590.16s - 1594.56s

time crunching that is really late it'll be back yeah that's that's if they're going to be like

Speaker 31594.56s - 1620.22s

limited time offer the shinies are back like then i get it but like that's lame um but the fact that the shiny grind exists i think is fun and should be carried over to other activities because like it's it's a tiny drop rate that doesn't really matter, but it's still a fun thing to chase. And you still get excited when a shiny drops. Like it is cool to get a shiny, even if it is probably pointless or worse than a drop you already have. It's still fun to get a shiny.

Speaker 51620.54s - 1621.82s

How many did you get, Paul PERSON?

Speaker 31622.18s - 1623.22s

How many do you guys have you gotten?

Speaker 51623.82s - 1628.82s

Six or seven, not counting the quest one. So you actually got a lot.

Speaker 31628.82s - 1633.68s

Drop rate. Yeah, I did my own drop rate. I think my drop rate was like three percent or something,

Speaker 51633.68s - 1637.62s

which is I think one average, like three, three and a half. I think you have a better drop rate

Speaker 31637.62s - 1643.26s

if you clear the full 50 because I think the final chest has a higher drop rate. I think at least

Speaker 01643.26s - 1645.78s

two or three of mine were from us.

Speaker 31646.16s - 1657.44s

So I think your drop rate can depend on if you do like if you're just doing the 10 match made ones, that's going to be a lot lower drop rate of like doing full clears. But full clears are not a guarantee.

Speaker 41658.08s - 1658.76s

What weapons should be able?

Speaker 51658.76s - 1663.36s

Somebody that has to do 80 runs of the raids to get the exotics. I'm not going to test my luck here.

Speaker 41664.08s - 1665.66s

Paul PERSON, what do you think people should be chasing?

Speaker 31667.44s - 1672.84s

As a podcast network, our first priority has always been audio and the stories we're able to share with you.

Speaker 21673.26s - 1770.48s

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Speaker 01773.88s - 1794.24s

Contained herein are the heresies of Radolf Buntwine PERSON. Erstwhile monk turned traveling medical investigator. Join me as I uncover the blasphemous truth of a plague-ridden world that ours is not a loving God. And we are not its favored children. The heresies of Radolf Bantwine, coming January 2nd, wherever podcasts are available.

Speaker 31796.76s - 1806.94s

I mean, the return of Mountain Top PRODUCT is exceedingly good. I have a, what is it is an impulse frenzy one, so you can just keep doing it over and over

Speaker 01806.94s - 1811.48s

and over again with really fast reload. The really, really good ones you want are auto loading

Speaker 31811.48s - 1825.88s

recombination and auto loading Vorpal. Someone told me the auto loading frenzy I deleted was really good. In terms of other stuff, I have a really good recluse where it's repulsor brace frenzy for my hunter,

Speaker 41826.02s - 1830.84s

my void hunter, which I really like. Yeah, but funnel web kind of negated. It's the same. Yeah,

Speaker 31830.92s - 1845.7s

it's the same thing. And it's not like old recluse, but you know, it feels fine. Yeah, Midnight crew has like 50 good roles. I'm really liking my Firefly One PRODUCT for All is really good. I do want that one. Firefly kinetic tremors.

Speaker 01845.88s - 1849.98s

Even though I'm like iffy and kinetic tremors, but that's supposed to be good. A lot of

Speaker 31849.98s - 1868.9s

fireflies. But yeah, there's a lot of good roles on a lot of these weapons. And like, even though it's sort of power creep incarnate in many ways, it's still fun to go for them right now. And, you know, I'm looking forward to the rest of them too. So I think from a reward perspective, this has also been good, both in terms of what you're being offered and kind of how you go about farming them.

Speaker 41869.3s - 1878.48s

Just a quick aside, I finally played through the season of the deep dungeon. And while I think it's really cool story-wise, I hate that dungeon. That dungeon was not-

Speaker 31878.48s - 1883.96s

It's terrible. It's such a slog. Oh, my God. It was very sloggy. There's way too many mechanics

Speaker 41883.96s - 1891.04s

to get to a DPS phase on the boss. I'm just like, oh, you got to go in the water again and go through the...

Speaker 31891.04s - 1896.18s

The water segments are some of the worst things they've done in the game in many years.

Speaker 41896.32s - 1897.3s

I don't know why they thought.

Speaker 31897.78s - 1901.24s

I just wanted to shoot guns underwater and have fights. Like just what is the Sonic?

Speaker 41901.24s - 1905.5s

I liked it. You like that dungeon? I don't. Are you just saying this to be contrary now, Travis PERSON? No liked it. You like that, that dungeon? Mm-hmm. I don't.

Speaker 31905.62s - 1908.08s

Yeah. Are you just saying this to be contrary now, Travis PERSON?

Speaker 51908.08s - 1915.52s

No, no. I like that dungeon. I think the reason people don't like it, at least from what I can tell, is that they did it more than they should have.

Speaker 31915.52s - 1916.26s

I did it one time.

Speaker 41916.26s - 1917.1s

I did that dungeon.

Speaker 31917.6s - 1918.58s

No, I did it.

Speaker 41918.58s - 1919.48s

Like twice.

Speaker 31920.64s - 1921.06s

Really?

Speaker 41921.26s - 1922.8s

Because like the first time I did that dungeon,

Speaker 31922.9s - 1927.88s

I was like, wow, this is cool and new and great even though I'm like, these traversal segments are insane. Yeah. And the boss.

Speaker 51927.88s - 1936.34s

They were long. They were long. Yeah. Yeah. And the number of times I had to do the, uh, the ritual to get to the DPS phase on that.

Speaker 31936.34s - 1936.62s

Yeah.

Speaker 41936.62s - 1939.86s

Do it one time and let us DPS. Like, come on.

Speaker 31939.86s - 1940.94s

Yeah.

Speaker 41941.44s - 1941.94s

Yeah.

Speaker 31941.94s - 1946.64s

But I was lucky because I got the exotic like on my second and i just did

Speaker 41946.64s - 1950.6s

the final boss the second time so i feel like i didn't play it enough to get sick of it and i thought

Speaker 31950.6s - 1955.02s

it was really cool the first time you played it but yeah environment's cool yeah environment's cool

Speaker 41955.02s - 1959.36s

the final the final battleground with the oryx LOC course is like one of the greatest things i've

Speaker 31959.36s - 1966.36s

ever seen it's really cool it's on rotator this week so you can probably find a crew to do it. And I use D2 PRODUCT.

Speaker 51966.94s - 1974.5s

No, I used Fire Team Finder to run it, actually, because nobody on the Destiny 2 PRODUCT Discord channel was rolling it.

Speaker 41974.58s - 1976.44s

So I was like, all right, I'll use Finder PRODUCT.

Speaker 51976.58s - 1977.32s

And I had a reason for that.

Speaker 41977.34s - 1978.04s

I had a good experience.

Speaker 31978.48s - 1981.32s

I don't have the exotic from that. What is, is it the trace rifle? Is that the exotic?

Speaker 51983.4s - 1985.98s

I don't remember what it was. It's one of those

Speaker 31985.98s - 1991.98s

ones that I put in my vault and was like I'm probably never going to use. This part's for lap. I swear it's the strand traits. I don't know.

Speaker 51992.52s - 2004.92s

What's the hand? The dungeon weapons weren't good either. The normal ones that you farm. There was like one good role of one of them. Maybe I don't know. Yeah, but they, but they had the armor in this one, right? This was one of the dungeons with the, um, exercise, the special armor you could

Speaker 42004.92s - 2022s

get. Yeah. Well, yeah. yeah yeah point point is it's just like it wasn't a good dungeon in my opinion but we differ on that one the final thing that we were going to talk about was the raid date the raid date is right next to launch of final

Speaker 02022s - 2026.18s

shape it's like three days later. And that's surprising.

Speaker 42026.42s - 2063.64s

So, yeah, it says the raid is on June 7th. There's a bunch of clan updates to raid activities, which I sort of like and I sort of don't. I don't know. I probably have to fix the IGN ORG clan, which is basically all lapsed players at this point.Yeah, I'll just store to you, because I'm sort of indifferent. I'm not going to run raid day one. So, yeah, like I'm not going to do that three-day grind.I did it for Last Wish WORK_OF_ART. It's a lot. I am going to stack bounties, so I level up a bit at the beginning, but I don't think I'm going to find a crew that I'm going to farm to,if there is a power increase, I don't even know as a laps player.

Speaker 32063.64s - 2064.78s

Is there a seasonal artifact?

Speaker 42064.78s - 2069.92s

There won't be, right? I don't, I don don't i don't think i don't think there will be

Speaker 52069.92s - 2076.72s

uh episodic artifact yeah the the thing to keep in mind though is that um the the crazy grind we

Speaker 32076.72s - 2081.36s

you experienced deston when you did when you prepped for the last wish isn't really a thing anymore

Speaker 52081.36s - 2118.82s

because there's the uh power catch up mechanics when you do the legendary version of the campaign, right? They had that for the last two campaigns. And so that sort of boosts you pretty close. I personally am happy about this because I'm reviewing this game and I really hate the 10 day delay. Because I can't write my review, right? I can't put the score on it until I've done the raid. And so usually I have like this enormous weight in between the game coming out and me being able to slap a review on there.So for me, it's just going to be goblin mode for three days, do the contest, raid, write the review. And then I'll get to feel good about about that.

Speaker 42118.82s - 2120.72s

Do you like that? To play casually.

Speaker 52121.02s - 2194.32s

As not a reviewer, as a player. No, as a as a as not a reviewer it sucks I'm like that probably the only person in the world that this is actually convenient for so thanks but literally like everything else I think it I think it sucks I think I don't know why Bungy ORG did this my my current theory is that they just really want the final shape to hit really strong and just dominate the conversation that whole week.And I feel like more recent expansions, even when they were good, they had more of a slow burn. Like it was in Witch Queen people talking about the campaign for a couple days and then a little bit of complaining because they were running out of things to do. And then the raid coming out and then people talking about that and then complaining again. And so I feel like they just want to like have that week be nothing but good vibes, lots to do, people not running out of runway. And I feel like maybe they kind of have to do that because I think the stakes have never beenhigher for Destiny PRODUCT in terms of expansion hitting. So it's an interesting choice. I don't think it's very player friendly. It also kind of goes against some of the messaging they've given in the past about not wanting their players to do unhealthy things with Destiny PRODUCT. And I think that people are definitely going to be doing that now.

Speaker 42194.44s - 2194.62s

Yeah.

Speaker 52195.38s - 2198.36s

So, yeah, not a great decision, but it works for me.

Speaker 42198.36s - 2206.06s

I think as a human being, sometimes the responsibility is yours to either be healthy or not healthy.

Speaker 52206.36s - 2208.6s

Because even with the game as it stands today,

Speaker 02209s - 2210.72s

you could play it in an unhealthy way,

Speaker 52210.84s - 2212.3s

even as a laps player,

Speaker 02212.44s - 2212.66s

you know?

Speaker 42213.08s - 2229.04s

So that's, I, there's a lot of stuff online. Like if somebody posts the ending to a game and you don't want to see it and then you watch it, I'm like,is that on the person that posted the ending? Or is it on you for not having the self-control to not click and watch the ending i don't know that happens with articles all the time i'm like talking about like

Speaker 32229.04s - 2233.02s

season two of a show and people are complaining i'm talking about like season one i'm like why did you

Speaker 42233.02s - 2240.4s

click on this article if yeah if it was about the season then i just want to know about season two paul

Speaker 32240.4s - 2244.96s

what's your thought on the on the raid being so close to launch um well i think travis is right in the

Speaker 42244.96s - 2254.48s

sense that like the the grind isn't quite what it used to be in terms of like, the last wish grind was like crazy power level grind, like just, you know, gremlin mode and a half.

Speaker 52254.6s - 2257.54s

Like they, that hasn't been the case for a while now.

Speaker 42257.84s - 2260.04s

And we don't know if this is a seasonal artifact.

Speaker 52260.4s - 2261s

Because I did it.

Speaker 42262.44s - 2263.76s

You can't really see it.

Speaker 52263.76s - 2266.32s

We replaced 63rd.

Speaker 42266.76s - 2269.14s

We were 63rd in the world to finish last wish.

Speaker 32269.76s - 2270.12s

Wow.

Speaker 42270.44s - 2274.88s

I've never heard anybody brag as much about being 63rd at something.

Speaker 32274.88s - 2277.56s

It's because Teddy PERSON, it's because Teddy made me this chart.

Speaker 02279.86s - 2281s

Anyway, sorry, Paul PERSON.

Speaker 32281.12s - 2281.46s

Oh, my God.

Speaker 42282.76s - 2285.08s

So, yeah, I mean, again, it doesn't affect me.

Speaker 32285.14s - 2286.34s

I'm not doing day one.

Speaker 52286.38s - 2288.14s

I'm going to watch it and cover it that way.

Speaker 32288.22s - 2291.18s

Like, I usually document who wins and stuff like that.

Speaker 52292.02s - 2293.88s

But I get why people are kind of annoyed.

Speaker 32293.98s - 2295.56s

I just don't think it's as big of a deal as it used to be.

Speaker 52296.08s - 2300.4s

They're doing it for story reasons because this is the last expansion.

Speaker 42300.56s - 2302.38s

This is a culmination of the light and darkness saga.

Speaker 52302.9s - 2308.8s

Part of this is going to be, you know, the witness will be the raid boss, but we know that there is something, you know,

Speaker 32308.86s - 2356.34s

with the whole player base that is like the final push against the witness that is not the day one raid because, you know, what percent of the player base is doing the day one raid to like totally finish the story of destiny? What, 5 percent, 10 percent? I'd probably lower than that. So they don't want the whole saga to finish with like the world's first rate team. So after, maybe after, you know, right after or maybe a couple days after at reset, I'm not sure. But then there will be like the real ending to the game.I just don't think they want to push that like 10 days out from launch and drag that on. And then what's supposed to happen is like after, you know, you beat the normal campaign of, uh, final shape, then we're going to launch into echoes the first episode, which is disconnected,but it will be kind of be like, the final shape has to be some sort of like hard stop.

Speaker 02356.46s - 2369.34s

Like witness is gone. I don't know. Maybe the traveler's gone. I do something. And then the world will change and then echoes the first episode will be a result of that. So you can't really drag, you know, season of the final shape because there is no season.

Speaker 32369.48s - 2372.98s

It's like you do the campaign and there's no like attached season in the same sense.

Speaker 02373.18s - 2375.82s

It's going to be like, I think they want to get it over as soon as possible.

Speaker 42375.82s - 2379.5s

You know it's going to be like there's still tormentors looming in the world.

Speaker 32379.68s - 2388s

You've got to go put a stop to the Guardian ORG and whatever. Well, yeah, they just introduced a whole enemy race. They're not going to like delete it after seven campaign missions.

Speaker 52388s - 2399s

So the way this force is still room free, yeah, all that stuff. Imagine the bravery of deleting after, you know, three days of your mob existing. Crazy.

Speaker 32399s - 2400s

What if we kill all the score?

Speaker 42400s - 2410.7s

That didn't go well. I'm out of here. If you could delete one enemy faction, like let's say that the story concludes and one enemy faction gets deleted, which one would you choose to delete? Oh, man.

Speaker 32410.7s - 2412.32s

Like, I know it would break the game.

Speaker 42412.92s - 2418.3s

But like, sure, oh, she, let's say all those ads are replaced with, with scorn or something.

Speaker 32419.12s - 2422.1s

I'm going to say, honestly. I just, really?

Speaker 42422.28s - 2436.5s

It's the original, like, like oh I hate that they teleport skin models and they teleport a lot and they're jittery and they have like the freaking hobgoblin retaliationlike it's just they're annoying and I don't think they're creatively interesting I think they were completely

Speaker 52436.5s - 2445.4s

conceived as a way to sort of like cut the corner on making a new race without actually being one I just I've never liked itso that's me so we're the scorn though the scorn are pretty transformed I'd say liked it. Of course. So we're the scorn, though.

Speaker 32448.24s - 2448.38s

The scorn are pretty transformed, I'd say.

Speaker 52448.94s - 2457.06s

That's true. That's true, but they're smaller. So if I delete an enemy faction, does that take them out of the taken faction as well? No.

Speaker 42460.3s - 2460.76s

Like if I delete Kabbal PRODUCT or there are no taken versions of them.

Speaker 32461.06s - 2461.52s

Okay.

Speaker 52464.5s - 2465.38s

I'm going to choose Vex ORG then just because I think they're not interesting.

Speaker 32470.38s - 2474.98s

That was my second choice is Vex. I don't know how they can ever make the Vex nearly as interesting as any of the other races. They've talked about it. Like post Destiny 2 PRODUCT, they've said

Speaker 52474.98s - 2478.64s

that like the Vex ORG are probably going to be a major thing. I would love to go to the Vex homeworld.

Speaker 22478.74s - 2481.14s

That's been talked about a lot. Like I'm going to leave the system. I want to do that.

Speaker 02481.14s - 2485.22s

Is it in Destiny 1 PRODUCT? But in terms of like. right? Yeah. Well, it was their home world.

Speaker 42485.26s - 2485.52s

I know.

Speaker 32485.82s - 2490.24s

Like, how do you make a Vex ORG character that is on the level of like

Speaker 42490.24s - 2491.88s

Sabathune PERSON or, you know,

Speaker 32492.8s - 2498s

oryx LOC or any of the other races have their own kind of like big bad. Whereas Vex ORG, it's like. Yeah.

Speaker 52498.16s - 2499.54s

Who were you talking about here?

Speaker 32499.62s - 2500.28s

Like hijacks.

Speaker 52500.28s - 2507.02s

I think, I think they can do it. I mean, a weird thing is that in Destiny 1, the Vex ORG were presented as like the ultimate evil, right?

Speaker 02507.1s - 2510.6s

Like they were supposed to be the thing that like all the other factions were afraid of.

Speaker 32510.6s - 2521.74s

And they've sort of become a joke. And I hate trying to hit their hit points because it's so inconsistent on the chest. I just, there's so many reasons that I'm going to choose Vex ORG for sure. That's fair.

Speaker 52522.16s - 2529s

Also, I hate having to wait when you're killing a hobgoblin and then they just make you chill for a sec, you know? They do the arm.

Speaker 32529s - 2531.42s

You just put on anti-barrier everything and just be like screw shield.

Speaker 52531.58s - 2533.78s

Yeah, and you're just like, dude, come on. Come on, man.

Speaker 32533.88s - 2535.62s

I've got stuff to do.

Speaker 42535.92s - 2542.18s

I might pick cabal ORG just because I feel like we've killed them so hard that like, why are you

Speaker 52542.18s - 2547.78s

still wandering around? Because, like, you lost. pack it in like you're going

Speaker 42547.78s - 2553.58s

to kill our allies no they they're going to kill all the cabal good guys war crime dustin over here

Speaker 32553.58s - 2559.78s

no i yeah they can stay like the empress the empress can stay kytle PERSON's fine she's cool but like all the

Speaker 42559.78s - 2565.6s

bad ones that we fight it's like come on like at some point like we've killed all the leaders of the cabal

Speaker 32565.6s - 2571.88s

the cabal are done right lore wise multiple times yeah yeah or wrath killed the entire cabal homeworld and like

Speaker 42571.88s - 2582.16s

fleets yeah so like that many cabal left like there's like 20 of these guys left and who are they following now the phalanx shield PERSON guy or what the shield we're following callus and our callus is

Speaker 32582.16s - 2587.64s

dead so yeah so just hanging out with the witness they like, we get these cool backpacks that generate shields.

Speaker 42588.1s - 2589.26s

Yeah, I don't get what they're doing.

Speaker 32589.26s - 2592.36s

That's all I had for this episode.

Speaker 42592.52s - 2595.98s

Not sure when we're going to do the next one, but there was a lot to talk about this week.

Speaker 32596.06s - 2597.9s

If there's a lot to talk about next week, we'll do it.

Speaker 42598.22s - 2613.42s

If not, we will go on hiatus until there's something interesting to discuss. And I'm sure there will be things interesting to discuss on our way to the final shape. Like when that other exotic mission returns, that would probably be a good week to do the next episode. Zero hour.

Speaker 52614.48s - 2617.84s

I think we'll just do the outro then unless Paul PERSON, where can people watch your stuff?

Speaker 42617.88s - 2619.16s

You've been covering Destiny PRODUCT nonstop.

Speaker 52619.28s - 2620.4s

So you're probably good one to plug.

Speaker 42620.7s - 2620.86s

Yeah.

Speaker 32621.16s - 2635.3s

At Paul Tassi on Twitter ORG. I've been slow to make YouTube videos lately about Destiny PRODUCT because there's not been too much happening. So I will do more of those soon. But yeah, that's and then you can Google me for my articles. Travis PERSON, you're reviewing the final

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shape. And what else you got going on? Yes. Yeah, we did an IGN first that is concluding on

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Tuesday for a new game called Eternal Strands PRODUCT. I think everybody should check it out because it's a new IP and an indie game and everybody says they want more of those and then they don't read the articles. So you should go and watch those videos and interviews and stuff. It's really cool. Other than that, yeah, I've got a, I'm reviewing no rest for the Wicked right now. So I don't know if any of you guys have played that,but it's pretty cool. Scratch is a pretty destiny itch for me in terms of the loot game. So I'm really enjoying that. And I've got a review of another crab's treasure a souls like where you play a hermit crab under the ocean that's going to be out on Tuesday so lots of cool stuff for me. Find me on Twitter at tag guy Travis PERSON. Thanks for uh thanks for inviting me.

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No problem. It's time to do the guardians out y'all. So that's it for this episode. Until next time, Guardian ORGs out. Guardian's out. Have you ever watched a futuristic sci-fi movie and wondered,

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but wait, could any of this really happen?

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And will I live long enough to see it?

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That's what our show, hypothetical is about.

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I'm Carrie Bichet PERSON, and on this podcast, we ask what if questions about the future, like, what if we could read minds? What if the world's digital data was erased all at once? What would happen if the Yellowstone LOC super volcano erupted? Then we explore that question two ways, through speculative science fiction and through dialogue with brilliant scientists.The result is a genre-bending narrative that's interwoven with real facts provided by literal geniuses. And, spoiler alert, a lot of the science fiction out there, it's not nearly as far-fetched as you might think.Come time travel with me into the future on Hypertetical PRODUCT. New episodes on Tuesday is available on all your favorite podcast apps. Just search Hypertetical PRODUCT. That's H-Y-P-E-R-T-I-C-A-L.