4/27/24: Flint Michigan Doc, Amazon's "Everything War", James Li Interviews Congressional Candidate

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Hey guys. Ready or not, 2024 is here, and we here at Breaking Points are already thinking of ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade the studio, ad staff, give you guys the best independent coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about, it just means the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that, let's get to the show.It has been 10 years since the city of Flint, Michigan GPE,

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was poisoned with lead, and there is one journalist I know who never gave up on the story, never left the story, and has continued to break explosive news about what was an unbelievable criminal cover-up and conspiracy that did poison an entire American NORP town. That would be Jordan Cheritin of Status Coup ORG.And he has a new documentary coming out but tells the entire story in a way that I think has never been told before.

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What matters right now is this, that that Flint River LOC right there is still right there. And those people that are victims of what was played on them are still victims. The 7,000 babies are still brain damage. You fucked up the fact that the matter is now. What do you do about it now? You left a lot of people dead and laying in the street and you still got people dead laying in the street. Excuse my French LANGUAGE. They told us we were disposable. That's what they told us.

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That's what they told us we were disposable. That's what they told us, is that we are disposable people. Do you think this will ever be fixed?

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No.

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And, you know, I'm never going to see my baby again. And they're never going to see their loved ones again. And I don't know how to deal with that.

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These aren't all elderly people.

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We're talking people in their 40s, 50s. We're talking about eight years old. Oh, wow. I'm talking about I know a young girl have breast cancer, eight years old.

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My grandson, he was no longer an A.B. student, but a D.E.F. student.

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Year 10 of the water crisis. And my eighth year of covering this, I first went to Flint in 2016. And I guess we should start for the beginning. Three, two, one.

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What is happening here in Genesis? Three, two, one.

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What is happening here in Genesee County GPE, and is this cancer crisis connected to the water switch? Newly released data from the health department reveals cancer rates here significantly higher than anywhere else in the state of Michigan GPE.

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It's a 10-year anniversary of the Flint GPE water crisis, and it's not something from the past.

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Jordan PERSON, it's always great to see you.

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Hey, thank you for having me.

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Yeah, of course. So just talk to us a little bit about what's new in this documentary and why you felt it was so important to stay on this story?

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Yeah, I think in today's news cycle where it's hard to remember what happened yesterday, it is incredibly hard since the media stopped covering Flint GPE long ago to remember what Flint GPE is about and also realize that it's actively still a crisis, not something from the past. So I've reported there 20 times since 2016, and each time I go back, it's truly shocking and really horrifying that it's still actively a crisis. You know, we've become numb to that word, but it's still a crisis.And in this documentary, you'll see cancer is through the roof in Flint GPE, and it's not from the weather.

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It's from the water.

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Teens are sadly now committing suicide.

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They were children when they were poisoned. There is serious, serious mental health problems, education problems in Flint GPE. You'll learn that a lot of the money that Congress ORG and elsewhere earmarked for Flint mysteriously did not go to Flint GPE and water relief. So it's kind of a mix of showing the active crisis. Yes, the water is still toxic and the domino effect with the cancers, the teen suicides,and really a city that is actively in crisis.

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Tell us some of what residents that you spoke with want people to know about what has been done to them?

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For the most part, residents desperately want people to know that they are still actively in crisis. Residents, I speak, with still 10 years later,

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get rashes from the water. Residents, I speak, to still their eyes burn when they shower, still in many cases getting smelly or discolored water. On the other side, residents are nearly going bankrupt, paying for medical bills because they did not get universal health care like some other

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cities with similar issues had Libby Montana GPE, for example, with an asbestos disaster, they're predominantly white. They got Medicare for all for their crisis. Rightfully so, Flint GPE did not. Residents desperately want the media to pay attention. I know we're in a 24-7 never-ending Trump and Russia GPE and now, understandably, Israel, Gaza GPE, but they can't even get their local media to continue covering

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their issues with the water, much less national media. So I think between the water, the medical problems, the children, the lost generation, children who are having serious learning problems, reading problems, learning disabilities, autism on the rise, and also crime is on the rise. We know that heavy metal poisoning, lead poisoning, there's research that shows that could lead to higher crime.And there is no kind of understanding or sympathy being shown to Flint GPE teenagers or young adults that are committing crimes, not to defend those crimes, but a lot of that is because their brain was damaged and they have

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volatile mood swings. Yeah, and there is no cure. There is no recovery. There is no moving on from lead poisoning. Talk to us about the process of accountability. Have any of the politicians who were involved? Have they been held accountable to any extent? You know, it's funny.

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All we hear about, and you cover a lot, is all this hubbable, about saving democracy. Well, how's this for democracy? A U.S. city of 100,000 people, was poisoned a decade ago, and not one government official, private and individual has been held accountable. Not one has even seen a jury.And unfortunately, it does not seem anyone will be held accountable, not to get two in the weeds, but Attorney General Dana Nessel of Michigan, she is a beloved MSNBC resistance hero. For some of the cases, she brought against Republicans NORP, the election scheme. But she basically tanked the criminal investigation of the Michigan State Supreme Court throughout her office's criminal prosecution, stating that they essentially violated the state constitution and the way they brought it. As a result, former Governor Rick Snyder PERSON's charges werethrown out, eight other state officials' charges were thrown out. In many cases, the statute of limitations has passed for those crimes. And as we speak, the criminal investigation has ended. So it seems no one will be held criminally accountable.

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Jordan, lastly, what do you think that this story tells us about America GPE?

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I think the story of Flint tells us about America GPE that the capitalist system, if you're in the wrong city at the wrong time, if you have leaders that want to, you know, run government like a business, throw emergency managers, which are unelected czars to take over power, try to, you know, privatize things, which is what led to this. The government is not going to help you, really help you, if you are poisoned, whether it's water, whether it's fracking, mining, whether a train blows up in your town in Ohio GPE. You know, you'll get some kind of artificial surface help.The headlines will say you're getting money, but at the end of the day, they will leave you to slowly die. And that's what's happening in Flint GPE, between the cancer and other illnesses from lead and other things that were in that water. It's basically a city that's been abandoned by the government and the media.

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And there are so many places like that around the country, which you have done maybe a better job than anyone on covering and staying with the story even after a lot of the cameras go away. Jordan PERSON, thank you for joining us. Thank you for doing this incredible work on the documentary. And thank you also for letting us post this on our channel. We're really proud to be able to, you know, premiere this and show off the work that you've done and bring this story to, you know, to the country. So everybody, make sure you check out Jordan PERSON's documentary. And any lastthoughts, Jordan PERSON, or any additional advice on how to follow your work? And thank you to breaking

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points. There are no mainstream media outlets that are willing to stay on Flint GPE. So you're not a mainstream outlet, and that's why you're airing it. Yes, you can check out and subscribe to status coup on YouTube, status coup, where we cover Flint, East Palestine GPE, and many similar stories. And you could support our work at statuskoo.com slash join.

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Status Koo.com, ORG guys, go check it out. They do really important work that is totally overlooked by the mainstream press. Jordan PERSON, always great to see and talk to you. Thank you, sir. So one thing we have been covering here for quite a while is the massive role in the U.S. and really global economy of the behemoth Amazon. So we're lucky to be joined this morning by an author of a new book about that corporate giant. The title is The Everything War, Amazon ORG's Ruthless Quest to Own the World and Remake Corporate Power.The author is Dana Madioli PERSON. She's a Wall Street Journal Amazon ORG reporter, and she joins us now. Dana PERSON, great to meet you and welcome.

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Good to see you.

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Thanks for having me. Yeah, of course. So tell us what is sort of the core thesis of the book.

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Yeah, the book tracks Amazon ORG's rise from this garage startup to really the most dominant force in corporate America GPE, but the world writ large. Its effects on the economy, job creation, competition, and how it's found itself in the center of this monopoly lawsuit because of the havoc, it's wreaked across different industries. So it's an investigation to the company's business practices and the result of it having accumulated so much power.

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One of the things that you go into, Dana PERSON, is about monopoly itself and the definition. I'm wondering if you could lay that out from our audience, because I know it's a bit complicated, but what's the effect of that and how regulators are looking at the power of Amazon ORG?

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Yeah, so these antitrust laws were first derived in the gilded age to stop the trust like Standard Oil. And for years and years, decades, it was enforced to, you know, allow competition to protect smaller rivals to compete. There was a change in the way that it was enforced in the 1970s and 80s, where the lens shifted to looking at these laws and competition through its effect on prices and efficiency. So if companies were offering low prices and they could be more efficient, there was a standardof letting that happen. And we stopped defending, you know, David versus Goliath PERSON so vehemently. And that's sort of given rise to companies like Amazon ORG. In the early days in particular, it was known as this low-cost retailer. So as long as it was offering low prices for consumers, it was allowed to get away with lots of other types of behavior that would have been enforced in years past. And you see that throughout big tech, you know, with Google ORG and

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Apple and Facebook as well. So one of the things that you point to, an anecdote that you have in the story, just so people can get like a finer point on the type of behavior you're talking about is how when Amazon decided they wanted to go into the food business and have a private label, their approach was just to hire up some former Trader Joe's ORG execs and be like, give us everything you have about what their top items are, and we're just going to copy them, and that's what we're going to do. Just tell us about that anecdote and how that connects to their, like, typical business practices.

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So in 2015, Amazon was launching this food brand called Wickedly Prime PRODUCT, and they wrote this paper internally to pitch it to management, and it said, we want to replicate the top 200 items at Trader Joe's ORG. Problem was they didn't know what those items were. So they set out and hired this executive from Trader Joe's, didn't really tell her what she'd be working on. And her first week in Seattle GPE, she stumbles across this very secret of conference room. It has brown paper covering the windows in the door so no one could see inside and she walks in and it's filled a boxes as a Trader Joe snacks, the exact area that she worked in at Trader Joe's ORG.

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She starts getting alarmed and from there her manager starts pressuring her to give any sorts of documents she had retained from her employment at Trader Joe's ORG, even though she has an NDA and whatnot. She caves to the pressure.

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She gives them an Excel spreadsheet with the top items from Trader Joe's, the sales volume over the course of a week. But then he just keeps hounding her. He says, I want the margins data. He screams at her. She cries in the middle of Amazon ORG's headquarters. And someone reported this to legal ORG, so the people that were involved did get let go.But everyone I've spoken to has said this was so indicative of the pressure people at Amazon ORG are under to perform. They need to improve their numbers. They need to hit their targets because at the end of the year, the bottom 6% gets cut. And that has effects on the type

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of behavior that play out across the company. And this is like not an isolated incident by any means. Right. Well, and in this instance, they didn't have access to the Trader Joe information, and it's not something that you can get publicly. So their approach was, all right, we're going to hire this person and we're just going to steal the information and then we're going to copy it. But in lots of cases, you know, they have this giant marketplace with lots of independent sellers. They can see exactly which products are selling really well and performing really well among theircustomers. They can replicate those products, and then they can use their own algorithm to make sure that when a shopper is looking for something like that product, it's not that original independent sellers product who gets pushed. It's their business line that gets pushed so that they get to reap the benefits of every aspect of this marketplace.

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And they've been doing that for years. The book gets into details about how, first of all, Amazon ORG has unprecedented access to data, not just from its sellers, but its rivals, its partners that you see time and time again in really shocking ways Amazon ORG uses that information to undercut them and to reverse engineer their hits and claim it as their own. On the private label side, they were spying on their sellers, taking their data about what's selling well and then reverse engineering it in Shenzhen GPE and just putting some of these sellers out of business.

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But we also saw that on the VC arm.

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You know, Amazon ORG, because they're so big, there's many tentacled octopus with such big market share everywhere, founders come and pitch them on an acquisition or funding. There's many tentacled octopus with such big market share everywhere. Founders come and pitch them on an acquisition or funding, and so many of the people I spoke to came out of those meetings saying, was that a deal-making talk or was that corporate espionage?

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Wow, fascinating. Dana, so in the future, what do you expect now that Amazon ORG is already, what is it, the second largest employer in the United States GPE, their power is only increasing. They are eventually going to brush up against actual legislative action or even the FTC ORG. Where do you see the future going for Amazon ORG right now?

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So the FTC filed a lawsuit against Amazon ORG saying that you're a monopoly. It will go to court in 2026. So that's still some times away from here. But what's kind of interesting to me is that they don't seem at all rattled. They, Andy Jassy PERSON, the CEO right now, has told his deputies that we could be a $10 trillion

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company, their general counsel at a few weeks after this lawsuit was filed against Amazon ORG, got on stage in all hands and was asked about his outlook for the monopoly lawsuit. filed against Amazon ORG, got on stage in all hands, and was asked about his outlook for the Monopoly ORG lawsuit.

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And he said, haters are going to hate, we're going to shake it off. So he just quoted, you know, Taylor Swift PERSON.

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So they really don't seem phased. All right. Or to have any shame about cringy comments like that.

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Dana PERSON, my last question for you is just to give the other side, like, you know, there's a lot

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of people who love Amazon ORG who are like, Amazon's amazing and they're super they're super convenient and guess what like they did amazing and they grew to such

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size because people really like what they had to offer and it's super cool that i can get you know my

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toilet paper delivered next day or whatever and you know something i saw you got question about before you got a lot of independent sellers who may be in some small town in kansas or wherever and now they're able to each reach this global marketplace. Isn't that glorious for them? So what's your response there? I would say for consumers we should be thinking about at what cost. So what was very telling to me is I went back to some of Amazon's earliest employees from the 1990s, the people that helpedbuild this machine. They've become fabulously wealthy from their stock options at the time, right? I mean, they're living really well. And I've gone back to them to say, like, how do you feel about the company now? So many of them have canceled their prime accounts. A lot of them avoid Amazon

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wherever they can. And some of them have even said, I feel like I helped build a monster.

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Like, they have regrets about this. They worry about its impact on innovation, Main Street, the economy.

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I mean, if you look at just the jobs in retail, and in 2018, there's a net loss of 700,000

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retail jobs, according to one study.

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And then between 2001 to 2017, half a million department store jobs were evaporated.

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That's 18 times as many as they were lost in coal mining to give you an example,

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right? And that's just one of their tentacles. And, you know, when I speak to those CEOs, the mall retailer CEOs, the CEOs of the department stores, the other retailers, they point directly at Amazon ORG. Really a lot to think about. I recommend everybody go and buy the book.

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We'll have a link in the description. Thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it.

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Yeah, great to have you, Dana PERSON. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it. Yeah, great to have it, Dana. Thank you. Thank you very much.

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Welcome to Breaking Points Beyond the Headlines. My name is James Lee PERSON.

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Joining us today is Jen Pearlman. She is running against Debbie Wasserman-Schultz PERSON in the Democratic

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primary to represent Florida's 25th Congressional District. Jen PERSON, welcome to the show.

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Thank you so much for having me on.

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Of course, of course.

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First question has to be, I think, why are you running?

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Because we all know that the Democratic Party ORG probably doesn't want you to run.

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So tell us, what makes your candidacy different than that of your opponent, Debbie Wasserman-Schultz PERSON?

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Okay.

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So the main reason that I ran into one and the same reason that I'm running now is this

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idea of transforming politics into service, this idea that this is supposed to be a term

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of service and not a career. And it is certainly not meant to be a lucrative career. So the idea of having somebody in there, in representing this district, that is not behold into the military industrial complex, big pharma, APAC ORG, you name it, is very appealing to a lot of people in the district. And some people, yes, there's policy and stuff that they're concerned with, but I got to tell youfor the most part, what people want is to get rid of the corruption. And as somebody who isn't looking for a second career and doesn't need this job and generally gets like a five-year itch, this is not a career choice for me. It has to be like, I'm not going to sit there.

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I'm late. I'm late for very important. Time is running out to score adult theme park tickets

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Escape into a place where magic has the power to transport you into stunning worlds. And your favorite stories for less. Buy from undercover tourist and authorized seller and link to official Walt Disney World ORG apps. So you can add on Jeannie Plus and Lightning Lane PRODUCT upgrades easy. Book your adult theme park tickets at child prices with Undercover Tourists ORG now and save. UndercoverTorris.com ORG.

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Taxes fees and other third-party charges will apply. See website for additional details. The information age can be overwhelming, especially when the information can't always be trusted. But for the past 180 years, readers around the world have turned to the Economist ORG as their trusted news source, delivering in-depth expert analysis of a wide range of topics. Listeners get a one-month free trial when they sign up at Economist.com.That gives you unlimited digital access to daily articles, special reports, great podcasts, subscriber-only newsletters, and so much more. Take the guesswork out of staying informed. Go to Economist.com ORG to sign up.

Speaker 91409.14s - 1425.76s

The only reason I feel like it's hard right now is unseating a corporate incumbent that's backed by APEC ORG, right? This is about unseeding a corporate monolith and returning this seat and potentially even the state of Florida GPE to people that may have its best interest at

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heart over people that do not. I wanted to ask you, you brought up APEC ORG several times. So I wanted to ask you recently, they've been openly bragging about their influence in Congress ORG, whether with the big bill now to Israel GPE and also how their support basically guarantees election to Congress. And your opponent takes millions from APAC ORG, and there's been a lot written about this as well. How much control do you think pro-Israel lobbies have on members of

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Congress? Oh, I think they seem to own them. They seem to own actually all three branches of government and the fourth estate. I find it terrifying. Everybody should be asking themselves, why isn't APAC ORG registered as a foreign agent? Why is APAC ORG the only lobbying group on behalf of a foreign entity that does not have to have its lobbyists registered as foreign agents? Why is that?It's so they can give unlimited dollars. It's that's why. And so, you know, obviously we have, we're being ruled by the Zionist state. You can always tell who's in charge by what you're not allowed to speak out against. So if I can sit here and I can talk about Joe Biden PERSON, no problem. I could talk about, you know, I could talk about my congresswoman, no problem, but you talk aboutIsrael, then that's it. So that's clearly who's in charge. I basically have told APEC ORG to bring it. Bring it. You can call me a self-loathing Jew NORP. You can do whatever you want to do. Like it's of no matter to me. But I will say to people who would like to defeat the concept that electing someone like me as an anti-Zionist NORP Jewover someone like Debbie PERSON would be the strongest signal message that the collectively we could send to A-PAC ORG seriously. That would be like the biggest F you to A-PAC because right now there aren't any anti-Zionist Jews running for Congress ORG. And I haven't seen any but maybe a couple even sort of maybe kind of say something that are in there. So, you know, I'm the last thing that they want.

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Yeah. speaking of conflation of maybe anti-Zionism, anti-Semitism, a lot it's been going on in college campuses most recently at Columbia with the Gaza and Campas GPE sitting, sit in. And I also saw this morning footage from NYU now reports of MIT, Tufts ORG, other universities doing the exact same thing. And some in the mainstream are really calling these students terrorists. I've heard that thrown out there. Some members ofCongress ORG saying similar, you know, not going as far, but they're saying similar things, basically portraying them as not anti-Zionist protest, but also anti-Semitic targeting Jews NORP.

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I've seen some videos, you know, both good and bad videos.

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So I'm wondering, based on your values that you just talked about, what's your reaction to what the students are doing?

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I could not be prouder. Like, I could almost cry. Like, I, I, those kids are the future of everything. Those kids are smart and capable and organized. Like, seriously, they could cry. I am so proud of those kids. They're not even my kids. But I'm okay, I'm old enough to be their mother. But I feel like, you know, they are doing, they are kicking ass. I could not stand in more solidarity.And as far as the people that are calling them names and calling them out, that is called the death throes of empire and the death throes of capital. And while it looks ugly, it's really a sign. It's a sign. I know that people, you know, it's scary,you know, like what's going on is scary. But I, you know, this is how it needs to be before it can be different.

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And so I understand that it's very uncomfortable for people.

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But like those students, that is all my goal in life is to consolidate those people with the union, the labor movement, with the environmentalist movement, with the block cop city movement and everybody. And like, that's the coalition that we need to build. So those, those kids are, you know, they're fighting for everyone. I'm very pleased with them and they need to. I am and I'm also will stand in solidarity with the professors that are putting their careers on the line for standing up for these students. And so, you know, that is something that I, yeah, major respect.

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If you're, I'm curious, if you're one of the university presidents, how would you handle this? Because it's obviously a very controversial. It's uncomfortable. And they're in a tough spot.

Speaker 91694.16s - 1786.4s

So I'm curious, how would you handle this? I can actually tell you exactly how I would handle it because I can go back to the first time I saw. It was the MIT ORG president and the pen, I think, back, like it was like a few months ago when they were sitting in front and being questioned by that vile woman up in New York GPE. And she was asking them basically trying to get them to say, okay, that they condone the, basically, that they condone the suggestion of genocide, okay?By saying that words like intifada and phrases like from the river to the sea are chants for genocide. And right there, when neither of those people spoke up in that moment and looked her in the face and said, nobody's calling for a genocide.That's not what that means. And given that woman the history lesson that she needed it at the time, I am so tired of people calling things what they are not. Those chants have nothing to do with anti-Semitism. In fact, they are ethnic cleansing terms that were created by the Lakud party in Israel GPE. So if anybody, and I will say this, like I say every time, every single thing that Zionists NORP accuse others of are only admissions of stuff that they do. And you know they're lying when their lips are moving. And I know this,because I was trained and brainwashed and grown up all Zionist and proud. And it's taken me about 14 years to

Speaker 31786.4s - 1792.56s

deprogram. How did you deprogram yourself? What was your journey there? It's been, you know what?

Speaker 91792.6s - 1961.14s

It's taken a long time. And it was definitely like a process. But it started around the time of the second intifada, which was also around the time that I started hearing about BDS. And then I started hearing about anti-BDS legislation. This was like early 2000s. And I started looking into that. And then it just sort of unfolded like a House of Cards WORK_OF_ART. Because I am someone who very much believes in the First Amendment LAW.And so the idea that I am not allowed to boycott a foreign entity and also get a contract with a city for, you know, for work, that seems like a violation of my First Amendment to me. And so then I started looking into, why are we so scared of BDS? Where does that come from? You know, and it just, it was a rabbit hole. And up until even 2019, I still thought that a two-state solution was possible. I was still what you would call, they call them liberal Zionists. Like, you believe that the state of Israel GPE has a right to exist,but you believe Palestinians NORP should have their own state, those people. And then once you do the research and you realize that there was never an intent by Zionists to have a Palestinian NORP state that was always made up talking point. Again, like the whole thing unraveled. And so, yeah, that's my background. But it's very upsetting to me. I grew up in a working class family that would send money to Israel GPE to plant trees in Israel.Everything was through JNF. I did a high school program through the Jewish National Fund ORG called Alexander Moss High School in Israel GPE, where they have us planting trees in occupied territory under armed guard. And we all thought, oh, that's so cool. This guy has an assault rifle and he's traveling with us. And as a mother, I'm thinking, if you are taking my child somewhere where you think that they need somebody standing over them with an assault rifle to protect them,you are somewhere you ought not be. And therefore, you are using my child as a human shield. That's what I think. And also as a tool of ethnic cleansing. So my thoughts on APEC are that they can come for me all they want.I know all their secrets. I know all they want, I know all their secrets. I know all their stories. I know all their talking points. And all they have, they have money. They have money. You know, they'll put out tons of constant reminding people over and over again that I support terrorists.I'm a Hamas ORG lover. You know, they'll put that on repeat. But the problem is, at the end of the day, it's still only going to appeal to a very small, finite echo chamber of voters. And the people that are watched that APEC ORG loop over and over, it's not going to expand. That group of people isn't going to just get bigger. You're not going to all of a sudden have somebody that cares about that issue. I don't think

Speaker 31961.14s - 1965.32s

you're wrong there in terms of the number of people supporting Israel GPE in the same way they

Speaker 91965.32s - 1970.6s

have done in the past. It's going to be smaller and smaller. But we just saw this past weekend that

Speaker 31970.6s - 1979.42s

doesn't really matter in Congress ORG. They just, you know, shove through this $95 billion dollar phone aid package, Ukraine, Israel GPE, a little bit of time. It wouldn't have had my name on it.

Speaker 91979.56s - 1996.54s

I could tell you that right now. It would not have had my name on it. And they could bundle it with all sorts of other stuff. You could bundle it with everything. You could put whipped cream and a cherry on top. And I still would not sign that. So yeah, I saw that. And of course, you know, Debbie PERSON, she would, she always gives

Speaker 31996.54s - 2021.92s

them more money than they asked for. So then, you know, we saw some of the footage coming out this week, from the, from the weekend, just members of Congress ORG waving foreign flags and it looked, you know, it was a really striking visual to see, especially since we have been more or less gridlocked on a lot of these domestic legislative pieces, but then they got somehow the ability to do that, also sneaking into the TikTok ban, which I think is a pretty unpopular legislation

Speaker 42021.92s - 2023.78s

for the American NORP people.

Speaker 32024.38s - 2029.58s

So then what do you say the folks that, you the folks that have kind of just given up on the electoral process

Speaker 42029.58s - 2032.04s

and say, well, it doesn't matter who we vote in there.

Speaker 32032.14s - 2033.3s

There's just still going to do the thing.

Speaker 52033.3s - 2035.58s

I'm late. I'm late for very important.

Speaker 122035.92s - 2063.6s

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Speaker 32155.4s - 2156.04s

You know what?

Speaker 92156.08s - 2214.86s

There is no solid answer for that. I think you got to just be chipping away at it. I mean, look, there were people that didn't sign that. There were people, there were even some Jewish congresspeople that didn't sign that. There were people, there were even some Jewish Congress ORG people that didn't sign that. So, you know, it can be done. You just need to start chipping away at the corporate tentacles that are basically holding people.And you can only do that by electing people that don't take corporate money. And then it becomes even people that don't take corporate money, but they're still scared of being primaried from that corporate money. So even though they're not taking it, they're still sort of acting in accordance with it. So there's a lot of that too. And it's, look, I don't, I can't speak for anyone else, right?Like, I only know how it is for me. And I would just always be as transparent and really bring this home here, what people want, what they want to see, and not just fall in line with a party or fall in line with anybody if it's not in the best interest or what the majority of people really want.

Speaker 32215.1s - 2216.78s

Yeah, speaking of political strategy.

Speaker 92216.9s - 2224.18s

So I've noticed that if you compare the more, you can say more extreme members of each party, the Freedom Caucus ORG, those guys versus say the squad.

Speaker 02224.78s - 2226.04s

One side seems much more

Speaker 92226.04s - 2230.22s

willing to play hardball to kind of get what you want. Now, where would you stand? How would you

Speaker 02230.22s - 2237.12s

approach politics? When I am sitting here and I'm on the same page as people like Matt Gates PERSON and

Speaker 92237.12s - 2329.1s

Marjorie Taylor Green, and this wasn't the first time, by the way. Now, granted, I will say this. Her reasons for why she would vote no to certain things are completely different than my reasons. Okay, like that's neither here nor there. She doesn't want to give them money because she's worried about China GPE and space lasers or whatever her shit is. But like, their strategy of really sticking it to their party is that's exactly what we need to be doing. That's the whole point of havinga progressive caucus, except there's like over a hundred people in the progressive caucus, but yet only how many people signed, didn't sign this resolution. And that's barely being progressive. So, no, I think that they, they are definitely feckless. I think they don't wield power. I think they're more concerned with getting primaried. I think that the rainmakers and the queen bees and whoever in that party just scare them and bully them. And I don't, again, I don't know because I'm not there. But I do know that there are a lot more people listed in the Progressive Caucus than there are actually seemingly progressive people. So maybe if that caucus actuallystood for something and really was a progressive caucus of actual progressive people. So maybe if that caucus actually stood for something and really was a progressive caucus of actual progressive people, not people that take like, let's say, big farm and insurance money, then maybe they'd have power. But they don't have any power because they're infiltrated by so many different people that aren't really with them. Like there's no, what is that? The squad isn't a real thing. That's a made up term by media.That's not a real thing.

Speaker 32329.4s - 2357.54s

Yeah, when I'm looking at this whole election cycle and in totality all the way from the top to the bottom, I kind of see. So there's a lot of people, I think, gravitating towards the more Trump PERSON-like figures, the guys who are out there saying, hey, we're going to have the best country, the best economy, you have jobs coming back, strong border. A little bit of that, you could say, just trust me. Give me the keys and I'm going to take good care of you vibes. And then I thinkthe other side, the Democrats NORP have characterized that kind of posturing as dictatorial. And that's

Speaker 02357.54s - 2362.42s

why we need to vote Joe Biden PERSON. We got to save democracy. They don't really talk too much about

Speaker 32362.42s - 2365.36s

their domestic agenda beyond anti-Trump.

Speaker 02366.16s - 2377.34s

So what I'm curious about is, let's say the Democrats NORP are right. Let's say we go with their definition. One side is dictatorship. The other side is what maybe what you just kind of characterize as a pseudo-democratic

Speaker 32377.34s - 2382.34s

administration that's in effect owned by many of the same groups, lobbyists.

Speaker 92382.34s - 2391.14s

Well, I was talking about Congress ORG. If you want to talk about Joe PERSON, now we're not just, now we're talking genocidal. So, yeah, you might have a dictator on one side, but you got somebody genocidal on the other,

Speaker 32391.22s - 2396.06s

but please continue. So then what's, so is one side truly that different than the other?

Speaker 92396.14s - 2528.52s

I guess what are your thoughts on this argument? I think it's absurd. I think the fact that we're sitting here and talking about between those two individuals in particular, that that's the two main choices. That's a sign that we no longer have a democracy. We're already there, people. We have so crossed over into the realm of fascist corporate takeover of this country that I just don't know what to tell you anymore. But the fact that that's the choice, what are you scared? Seriously. And the thing is, the people that truly do, I have found this. And I have been dialing for dollars a lot lately. So I talk to a lot of people on the phone. And I always say, you know, who do you like in the election? And so I'm talking to a lot of people.And without, without fail, the people whose primary concern is about Trump PERSON are more privileged people without fail. The people who are struggling, working, whatever, they don't even mention Trump PERSON. They mention health care. They mention in clean water. They mention wars. They mention those things.So the people that are really so scared of Trump PERSON at this point are really a small group of people. And it is an establishment democratic, very elitist group of people. And they are completely out of touch with regular people. Because when you talk to like vulnerable people or in any moment, so for example, Palestinians NORP at the moment. I'm pretty sure that there's nothing worse than somebodywho's participating in genociding their family. I'm pretty sure that there's no worse than that. Like, that's as bad as, you're not going to scare them with anything at this point. So you look at the most vulnerable andoppressed people at any time and look at from their perspective. What's their perspective on who would be worse? Not who would be worse for rich, you know, you know, elitist America GPE. That doesn't concern me. You look at it for what would be worse for the least of these. And I am telling you from someone who has been in the streets with the least of these for the better part of the past five years,it is six of one, half a dozen of the other between those two people. I assure you.

Speaker 32528.86s - 2532.2s

Before I let you, I want to talk about your campaign specifically.

Speaker 92532.32s - 2535.64s

So you ran 2020 also against Debbie Wasserman Schultz PERSON.

Speaker 32535.72s - 2536.06s

You lost.

Speaker 92536.12s - 2541.04s

I think the vote count was about 55K for her, 21 for you, 70, 30 split.

Speaker 02541.04s - 2556.36s

So this time in 2024, what are you trying to do differently? What do you see as your path to victory? You know, between now and August 20 2024, what are you trying to do differently? What do you see as your path to victory? You know, between now and August 20th, what are the kinds of things that you and your campaign are doing to strategically try to close that gap? Okay. So let me be very clear,

Speaker 92556.36s - 2699.28s

even though I didn't run in 22. I have been working canvassing in this district for the past four years, whether it was for women's reproductive freedom, whether it was for women's reproductive freedom, whether it was for other candidates, whatever. Okay, so just the amount of community ties, name recognition, build up all of that, connections in city commission seats that weren't there four years ago, people that are in positions where other people used to put their hands on the weight for Debbie PERSON, hands on the scalefor Debbie PERSON, just a lot of things in play there. Also, just having my podcast, having more name recognition, but our district lines have also changed. And the entire Dade County GPE portion that used to be in our district, which is coastal, affluent, very Jewish NORP, that entire portion is no longer in our district, which is coastal, affluent, very Jewish NORP. That entire portion is no longerin our district. And instead, we gained an area, a town called Miramar, which is very working class canvassable, regular people, heavy Latino, a lot of Haitian NORP islander, you know, working people, but most importantly, canvissible. Because the rich hoity-toity high rises that got cut out of our district were areas that we couldn't even canvas as a grassroots campaign. So the only way in those is TV and mailers, which we could do a couple, but she's able to like flood it.So to get rid of portions of the district that aren't canvassable is a huge gain for us. But then you also look at the demographic that she lost. She lost a lot of wealthy Jewish NORP people. It's actually where I'm from is the part of the district that's no longer in district. Where I grew up is that. And so what we gained is not that. So the demographic has changed as well that is also in favor of people fighting for working class issues. So there's been a lot of different variables. And honestly, what's going on in Gaza GPE is that that makes it almost a perfect storm in terms of the people that have been reaching out to me and wanting to support me.And people, especially in the Muslim NORP community, that aren't overly politically involved normally, but are very organized and involved right now. And I just feel like the tide is turning.

Speaker 22703.46s - 2725.08s

It just feels, it just feels different this time. And again, it's still, it's still an uphill battle to unseat an incumbent. You know what I mean? It's by no means. It's by no means just like a gimmee no matter what. But I definitely know that we have made huge advancements in terms of my presence in the community as well as national for fundraising and name recognition. I actually have a team this time, which is amazing, because last time it was

Speaker 92725.08s - 2766s

my business partner and I, and it was just the two of us basically. And we had some people helping us do stuff. But we were, we, it's, this is so much better to have. It's so nice to have a campaign manager. It's so nice to have a finance person. It's just, it's like, it's, it feels almost luxurious to me. So I feel like the way that I did it the first time, being so insane, made it that maybe this is why it's easy or feels easier to me. Maybe that's why, like, people, maybe if you start this way, you're just used to having a campaign manager and a comms person and all. Like,I don't, we're not used to that. So I definitely feel like there's a team of people working really, really hard. And I'm, it's, yeah, it's inspiring.

Speaker 32766s - 2770.36s

Where can people find more information about your campaign if they're interested in learning more,

Speaker 92770.46s - 2826.38s

perhaps even getting involved? Oh, for sure, at gen, J-E-N-2020.org. And go there, sign up. All of the links are social media are on there. I do not want to begin to tell you what all the social media handles are. I just, I can't do not want to begin to tell you what all the social media handles are. I just, I can't. So go to gen 2024.org ORG. And if you're local by any chance and you would like to help locally,we'd love to have you sign up and show up in an event or something like that too. But anybody can volunteer from anywhere. And if you want to even host a fundraiser, we can do those on Zoom PRODUCT. If you have like a group of people that you think would be interested in having a chat, you know, like I could be, you know, I do Jen talks for hire. They're, we just, there's Zoom PRODUCT fundraisers. And we have a fewdifferent things coming up that are, that are going to be fun. We're going to be having a Jesse Ventura fundraiser that he's going to do for us. And that's the one coming up that is a public,

Speaker 32826.38s - 2835.38s

it will be a public thing soon. All right. Well, Jen Perlman PERSON, everybody, we appreciate you for joining us today on Breaking Points ORG. Best of luck on the campaign trail. Thank you.

Speaker 92836.38s - 2841.6s

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The information age can be overwhelming, especially when the information can't always be trusted. But for the past 180 years, readers around the world have turned to the Economist ORG as their trusted news source, delivering in-depth expert analysis of a wide range of topics. Listeners get a one-month free trial when they sign up at Economist.com ORG. That gives you unlimited digital access to daily articles, special reports, great podcasts, subscriber-only newsletters, and so much more. Take the guesswork out of staying informed. Go to Economist.com ORG to sign up. This episode brought to you by 20th century

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