BR066 - Mutiny, Secp256k1, Sparrow, COLDCARD, Microstrategy DIDs, NIP-104, FOSS Dev Funding, Mining Centralisation + MORE ft. Steve Lee, Future Paul, Odell & Rijndael

Speaker 50s - 48.8s

Hello and welcome to the Bitcoin Dot Review podcast, where we explore developments and projects with the people who actually make them happen. The show is supported by Pod2.0 SatS streaming and Coin Kite PRODUCT. If you're a new listener, I'm NVK. I run Kuenk, where we've been helping people secure their bitcoins for over a decade. We make the code card and fun products like the Block Clock PRODUCT. You can find more information about it on point kite.com. Hello and welcome back to the Bitcoin.com.Where we are not a podcast, we're just a therapy for people who like software and have opinions about software. Most of the opinions in the show are fully correct and any other opinions are not correct. So starting with that, I have a fun panel today. Mr. Rindell, welcome back.

Speaker 349.24s - 50.1s

Hey, great to be back.

Speaker 550.96s - 55.46s

Mr. Rindel PERSON was at the BTC++. Is that doxing? No, not anymore.

Speaker 355.64s - 61.64s

No, it was awesome. Yeah, I gave a talk and I was on a panel. June Seth PERSON called me a Shet corner a bunch.

Speaker 561.98s - 63.02s

Oh, so you're real now.

Speaker 363.26s - 64.38s

Oh, yeah, I'm a real person now.

Speaker 564.78s - 71.6s

What was you gave a talk and you're on a panel in a Bitcoin conference, that's it. Like, you know, you are part of consensus.

Speaker 372.06s - 73.4s

Yeah, haters will say it's fake.

Speaker 174.62s - 76.42s

Mr. Adele PERSON, welcome back.

Speaker 377.04s - 77.92s

Good to be here.

Speaker 578s - 81.02s

Thanks for not doing a morning show for me.

Speaker 181.74s - 86.9s

Hey, listen, any time, we are happy to accommodate your precious needs.

Speaker 587.02s - 89.66s

For what it's worth, I'm also making a sacrifice.

Speaker 189.84s - 93.12s

I'm doing a doubleheader. So right after this, I'm doing a civil dispatch.

Speaker 593.58s - 99.98s

Oh, boy. I don't know how you're going to survive three hours of this plus that. You can do it.

Speaker 2100.7s - 117.06s

Mr. Steve PERSON, welcome back, sir. Thanks for having me on again. Looking forward to it. I've been on the warpath Thanks for having me on again, looking forward to it. I've been on the warpath the past few weeks on minor centralization, bolt 12, what else, ossification, or not team slow and steady. Okay.

Speaker 5117.98s - 121.84s

We may get to it. Would love to.

Speaker 2122.44s - 125.08s

Mr. Paul PERSON, welcome back, future Paul.

Speaker 5125.38s - 128s

Hello. Nice mic cover there.

Speaker 0128.2s - 129.48s

Thank you. Appreciate that.

Speaker 5129.98s - 132.34s

It means you're like a real podcaster or something.

Speaker 0132.58s - 137.5s

I am. Well, Paul PERSON was a podcaster before all of us. I know. I invented podcasting.

Speaker 5137.86s - 151.72s

He practically did. I don't know if Paul PERSON remember, but me and Paul bonded on Twitter over the Internet of Shit tweet I did many years ago when he was also shitting on all those IOT devices.

Speaker 0152.36s - 159.98s

I have a podcast episode with Internet of Shit ORG. Who turns out loves IoT devices in his home?

Speaker 5160.46s - 161.38s

Everyone is a LARP.

Speaker 0162.44s - 163.74s

Everyone is a LARP.

Speaker 5164.34s - 168.4s

So guys, we have a full list here, but I'm just going to do a little housekeeping.

Speaker 0169.54s - 175.9s

Coin Kite PRODUCT is looking for a very, very, very technical, technical writer to update and maintain

Speaker 5175.9s - 198.06s

cold cards docs. This would be a part-time gig for someone looking to own them for years. Apply a jobs at coincite.com ORG with some work samples and links. Man, maintaining docs is an arduous job, especially when you have the amount of features that's in there. It's brutal.

Speaker 3198.66s - 208.82s

It's tough, but if you find an actual technical writer who likes doing that, there are orders of magnitude better than having the devs do it. Well, I mean, he also left out what the pay is.

Speaker 1209.42s - 210.28s

No, it's pay.

Speaker 3210.44s - 213.96s

It's like market price. You get paid in stats cards. No, no.

Speaker 5214.06s - 256.14s

So the funny thing is, and I think like most projects work like that, you know, we write the docs often as we make the features, right? And then, but the problem is it grows, right? Because we write a lot of features, so then there's a lot of shit. And then the versions change and then maintain it.Hopefully, I mean, the problem is most technical writers don't seem to be as technical as they need to be. So then we need to correct everything and that is double work, which is not great. So anyways. And who knows, maybe this person is good enough, they come work, and then if we have spare time and he's actually full time, maybe he can do FOS sort of document maintenance for other

Speaker 4256.14s - 262.9s

projects, who knows? No promises. But come, come on do stuff. Did you write the copy?

Speaker 5263.76s - 265.5s

Oh, it was a tweet. It was my tweet.

Speaker 4267.78s - 270.1s

This is what my tweets sound like for real.

Speaker 3270.18s - 271.72s

I came to ask the hard questions.

Speaker 4272.06s - 272.42s

I know.

Speaker 3273.48s - 276.68s

Good job speaking truth to power there.

Speaker 5277.94s - 281.4s

By the way, not a sponsor, this sparkling water here.

Speaker 3282.2s - 285.58s

I think I finally figure out the best beverage to have

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because all the other ones have like really bad chemicals on them. This one has even probiotic. Yes. Maybe they can send us some free, some free. See, Odell PERSON, this is how you get sponsors that are not related to Bitcoin. Anyways, guys, let's start this list.Mr. Ringdell PERSON, it's not here in the list, but you want to give us a little bit of a review of BTC++. A lot happened there. Actually, nothing happened there. A lot was talked there.

Speaker 3318.96s - 435.68s

I mean, some stuff happened. People did write some code. I need to follow up with Ben Carmen PERSON. He was working on something with DLCs using OpCat, and I'm going to help them debug that code probably tomorrow. But yeah, it was a couple days in Austin. I guess Nifty picks a theme every year, and so this theme was all about Bitcoin script. So there were a lot of talks about doing interesting things in script. So there were, you know, a lot of talks about doing interesting things in script. I gave a talk aboutusing Opcat to build covenants. I used a vault as like an example, but I walked through mechanically how you use cat with snore signatures to build up covenants. We had like a covenants panel. Rob Hamilton PERSON gave a whole deep dive on miniscript. There were talks about Arc. There was a talk from Lalu PERSON about using covenants to validate like taproot asset transfers. So just lots of interesting scripting stuff.There was a VLS talk that was there. Jesse Posner gave a talk about Frost PRODUCT. So just lots of like really interesting Bitcoin scripting stuff. The two talks that I think, or the one proposal that I saw get a lot of passing around on Twitter was Rusty Russell PERSON gave this talk for what he calls the script restoration project. So the premise is, you know, turn on all of the deactivated opcodes. So in Bitcoin like 0.3, Satoshi PERSON turned off a whole bunch of op codes responding to this like CVE in 2010. And we never really went back and like looked at it and decided to turn them back on. So the idea is that you wouldn't want to just turn all of them back on, you know, and do nothing else because you could construct scripts that would be prohibitively expensive for people to validate and would create like DOS.

Speaker 5435.92s - 437.34s

Let's bring back up if all.

Speaker 3437.5s - 524.88s

Yeah. Well, so that one wasn't turned off. That one never existed. Right? But it's like multiply, left shift, right shift, variable length integers. So we can do like real arithmetic on amounts, things like that. And so a big part of the proposal is to have,right now we have like a SigOps budget. You can only do so many signature operations per block. The idea is that we would have a variable operations budget. So different operations that can take, you know, variable amount of compute in order to validate would have like a budget based on what the worst case performance of them would be. So like multiplying two big numbers together is worse than adding two big numbers together.And the idea is that we would have this budget of kind of like how many primitive operations can you do per block. And then if we bound that, then you can turn on all these other op codes. And a lot of the other proposals that people have made over the years end up just being redundant if we just like have better native scripting. So that was kind of like the idea that Rusty PERSON came with and it got a lot of,you know, attention and a lot of discussion. I think the variable ops thing is interesting. And it's something that we can, you know, do a bunch of work on modeling. And then there were also kind of less spicy talks like, you know, Opcat, minisccript, a bunch of stuff about lightning, et cetera.So it was great. It was a lot of fun.

Speaker 5525.24s - 531.06s

You see that I put that in the vulnerability's disclosure part of the show? Is that where you put it?

Speaker 3531.14s - 532.1s

I have to refresh the page.

Speaker 5532.18s - 533.68s

No, no. I put you there.

Speaker 0534s - 534.5s

Oh, okay.

Speaker 3534.68s - 535.98s

I'm the vulnerability. Got it.

Speaker 0536.72s - 611.68s

This proposal is really fun. Ben PERSON gave me a rundown on this. I missed the conference, but I've gotten a lot of recaps from him. But it seems like, yeah, there's basically kind of like two sort of paths right now of people who want softworks. There's basically, let's do a softwork that's highly targeted at a very specific application like covenants. And like we'll get the one minimal change that would take to get covenants.And then there's kind of the other direction. like, let's get like low level primitives and we can build applications on those. And if some application is popular, then at that point, we can decide, okay, this could be made a lot more efficient with like a single op code. Now we'll, we can discuss that. And part of the reasoning along, around those lines is like there's kind of a feeling that something like BitVM might enable the like worst case scenario, least efficient way to do absolutely everything.Yeah. And so if we start seeing these applications show up that are using BitVM and doing things in a hyper inefficient way, that might be some impetus towards like, okay, can we make this more efficient? Yeah.

Speaker 4612.12s - 614.66s

Adele PERSON, you had a head shake there.

Speaker 5614.7s - 615.12s

I'm curious.

Speaker 4615.54s - 619s

I would just add that Nifty ORG is a fucking legend.

Speaker 5619.5s - 623.8s

I'm grateful for Base 58 in the series of Bitcoin Plus Plus Events.

Speaker 1624.44s - 631.56s

All of these talks, most of the talks, are available online. It was streamed and recorded, and you can get it on YouTube ORG, I believe.

Speaker 3632.32s - 657.06s

Yeah, so there's like the contiguous six-hour long, like, live stream recording is up there now. And then they're working on chopping them up for kind of individual talks. So in probably another week or two, you'll be able to go and just watch a video that's, you know, 30 minutes or 40 minutes for a specific talk. Right now you can see all of the talks,but you might have to kind of scroll through a six-hour video to find the right spot.

Speaker 1657.06s - 661.08s

And I just wanted to add what my head shake was about is,

Speaker 6661.5s - 662s

oh, okay.

Speaker 1662.68s - 682.56s

People do exist. I think the overwhelming majority of Bitcoiners NORP are the silent majority that don't want ossification and don't want like complete dev clown show like everything bang everything againstthe wall and see what kind of graffiti shows up. There's a middle ground in between. Where is the middle?

Speaker 5682.82s - 685.16s

Where is the line? Where is the line?

Speaker 1686.36s - 700.8s

Incredibly conservative. I like what Steve PERSON said. A team slow and steady. Just very conservative, slow and steady development and iterate over time.

Speaker 5701.76s - 774.06s

From talking to people recently, I got to say the divergence of preferences, ideas, and just the lack of also talks about how to even activate things going forward. Like, it really leads me to think that I don't think we see anything consensus changing at least another five years. I think, no, but what matters is like, I don't care. I don't care either way.It would be great. It would not be great. Bitcoin is working. The point is not that the point is, like, where does the energy that all this creative, talented people get pointed to and explode towards, right? Because, see, the last time this happened, we got Ethereum.Okay. So, so like, I'm just curious. Like, you know, like, where do you guys think it goes if it doesn't, if these people cannot sort of like, you know, not busting that for another five years. Who wants to go first? Well, I would add, I'm kind of with you that,

Speaker 1774.06s - 797.14s

regardless of my personal views, I think like Bitcoin is probably a harder to change than it's ever been. But I would also add a caveat that if you go back and listen to the podcasts or somehow find my old tweets after I deleted my account, I didn't, like, Taproot ORG called me off guard, speedy trial called me off guard. Like, I didn't think it was going to get merged so easily.

Speaker 5798.24s - 835.7s

I don't know. Like for Taproot ORG, I was pretty certain he was. Like, there was no opposition. And I think a lot of people were either sort of like not paying attention or got bamboozled. No, I mean, like, it's great change. Like, don't get me wrong. I wanted it. But I don't think the market, I think everybody was so apathetic because of UASF and the body scars that people had from UASF. They're like, people are just like, please, don't tell me about the new activation. Yes, sure. Go ahead.Do the devs like it? Yes, okay, go ahead. I think it's going to be the complete opposite this time.

Speaker 3836.84s - 845.06s

I don't know if I agree with that. I think we're probably going to see a consensus change inside of five years. I don't want to like predict when it's

Speaker 5845.06s - 852.32s

going to be because I'll be wrong. I want to block number. Yeah, right. But you know, I think what's,

Speaker 3852.32s - 861.2s

you know, the risk here, right, is like, I don't think the current set of consensus rules that we have

Speaker 5861.2s - 866.12s

are going to support like widespread non-custodial lightning.

Speaker 3866.82s - 885s

And I think for people who have a big bag of, like, on-chain Bitcoin, people want things like reactive security. And so, like, I think the thing that people don't want to have happen is it takes too long to come to consensus on any, like, you know, people say, all right, we'll wait for simplicity or something. It's not going to happen, which never happens, you know, people say, all right, we'll wait for simplicity or something.

Speaker 5887.7s - 887.76s

It's not going to happen, which never happens, right?

Speaker 3889.24s - 891.76s

It's always 50 years out. Like, whatever it is, it's always 50 years out.

Speaker 5894.46s - 894.7s

I think it's in 110,000 diff now.

Speaker 3895.16s - 925.84s

Yeah, right. So, like, it's never going to happen. And so if that's the thing that people are holding out for, then I think what ends of happening is just like Bitcoin becomes more custodial over time. And, you know, the next like marginal users of Bitcoin just say like, all right, I'll just like hold this in an ETF. Or eCash. I mean, maybe. I don't know. I think it's going to become harder to be a custodial Bitcoin service provider in the Western world over the next couple of years,then it's going to become easier.

Speaker 2926.16s - 997.08s

Steve PERSON. Yeah. I agree with the points Rendell PERSON just mentioned. Although I still don't see which consensus change or which proposal actually delivers that. I mean, I've done some study this year on timeout trees. I like some things about it, but have concerns as well as other solutions.But as far as consensus changes, yeah, I am on AJ Town's ORG slow and steady approach. He wrote a recent blog post about it. I actually think if we took the entire Bitcoin community, not just does, but investors and business owners, everyone. And they were informed of all the details. I think most would be on team slow and steady,actually, as opposed to the extremes. Like, if we define ossification is literally no changes. I mean, I just went on Stefan Libera to talk about that specific issue as a follow-up to, like, the Odell-Sailor ORG spat around funding. Dev funding and changes. Which of Odell PERSON's spats?

Speaker 5998.12s - 999.36s

And Jacks.

Speaker 21000.26s - 1001.18s

The Tuesday one.

Speaker 11001.68s - 1003.22s

I've only had two major spats.

Speaker 51003.68s - 1032.2s

But Steve, hang on a second. You know, like all the ossification people I know, even the most hardcore people, are totally fine with updating Bitcoin ORG core so he works on the next version of MechOS PRODUCT. Right?Like, they're all fine with like, you know, soft, like all the standardness things. You know, he may argue about it, but nobody can fucking do shit about that. So like, you know, updating core for non-consensus rules,I'm pressed to find anybody who's against it. Yeah, you call it like gardening,

Speaker 11032.52s - 1034.26s

right? Yeah, it's gardening, right?

Speaker 51035.04s - 1035.74s

But like,

Speaker 11036s - 1037.98s

but even the people who like

Speaker 51037.98s - 1052.22s

are against that know that there's nothing they can do except for the guy who wants zero confect. But, um, the, no, but seriously, like, I think like... You mean the guy with the wallet? Yes.No, it doesn't work?

Speaker 11052.54s - 1055.12s

I don't know. It's not allowed for Americans NORP.

Speaker 51055.38s - 1090.2s

Right. So, so anyways, but my point is, like, you know, like, I don't like the way the conversation is going on Twitter or general podcast. Anyways, like in general right now, Bitcoin is supposed to like, you know, team A versus team B, because we're just reproducing the shittiness of the legacy system.And like the justification people have no issues with, like, updating the client in general. Like, you know, of course there's going to be one or two people who might have a problem with that too. But they can't do shit about that.

Speaker 11090.46s - 1102.76s

I want to be clear here. Yeah. It's not an Odell's Sailor ORG spat. There was two, there was two Noster PRODUCT posts. They were very deliberateand how they were worded.

Speaker 51102.86s - 1105.7s

Nobody listens to this podcast. So you don't have to clarify it.

Speaker 11105.7s - 1194.2s

All my Noster notes for the last eight months have been caps. So first of all, like, people were like, he was ranted in caps about it. I do that every day. It was, it's, it's, it was, they were, the notes were very clear. Sailor PERSON is against funding open source contributors. He thinks overwhelmingly that any money against funding open source contributors. He thinks overwhelmingly that any moneygoing to open source contributors, regardless of it's gardening, outside of consensus stuff, all that is a net negative. He's actively campaigning about that privately. I believe if someone asked him publicly, he would say the same thing. I don't think that is necessarily controversial. I just think people should be aware of it and people should talk to him about it. Instead of having, you know, an hour, 10-hour podcast with him or just all softballs, they should ask the question and it shouldn't be private discussions about that. And, you know, Steve PERSON has been involved in funding open source contributors.Rodolfo has been involved in funding open source contributors. Rodolfa PERSON has been involved in funding open source contributors. I obviously have been heavily involved in funding open source contributors through open sets. It is an uphill battle without one of the largest public Bitcoin holders going around telling people not to do it. Like it's a huge uphill battle. And a lot of us are exhausted and the devs that were funding and supporting are exhausted. And the exhaustion is realand people should be aware of that but this whole idea like the internet likes to make you know it's like there's always a fight between two people or whatever

Speaker 51194.2s - 1195.66s

wait are you Kendrick

Speaker 11195.66s - 1202.96s

or are you Drake well clearly Kendrick but there's no spat I want to be clear

Speaker 51202.96s - 1266.24s

there were shootings at his house this morning at Drake PERSON's house. It was all over the news. Anyways, diffusing this for a second here. I have asked Sailor PERSON point blank in DMs, and the point has some nuance, and I think the internet doesn't help with that.I don't know if the nuance was provided in how the information got around. But the point is, he should talk about it. And I understand the point. The point is when you fund engineers, okay, to just do shit, they're going to come up with shit to engineer. And that can be great and that can be bad. The point is, you know, that introduces risk, right?Some people are extremely risk-adverse based on their preferences, right? Like, listen, the funding to FOSS will continue regardless of what does people want or don't want. So I think I try to make that very clear. I don't think that's true. I don't think there is an issue with that.

Speaker 11266.4s - 1269.76s

I don't think that, I mean, it's literally hanging on by a thread,

Speaker 51269.88s - 1271.38s

and the thread is called Jack Dorsey PERSON.

Speaker 11271.76s - 1275.22s

Like, I'm grateful that he continues to support open sets

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and continues to support spiral with no strings attached.

Speaker 11278.78s - 1343.38s

Like, legit, Jack PERSON has never told us what to do, period. I don't know, man. He sends me a list. Fuck you, MBK ORG. Let's have rumors start. I'm incredibly grateful to him.But, like, we're hanging on by a thread. And OpenSat ORG specifically, like, can't have a single donor. Like, we need to have diverse funding. Otherwise, we lose our 501 status eventually. And it's a real problem. It's not like the biggest fear I have, and I think it's important to be an open bookand try and build out in the open. That's what open source developers do. And it's important to adopt that ethos. I think it's always stronger to build in the open. But one of the issues I had, which is I think it was important for us to announce the most recent Jack Dorsey PERSON donation.But part of it is like people see it and they're like, okay, well, Jack PERSON handled it. Now I don't need to do anything. And that's a negative. That's a major negative. But it's also important that we disclose it and we're very clear that it happened. Yeah.

Speaker 51343.66s - 1391.58s

I mean, I voiced this before even internally. Like, I struggle with philanthropy versus markets because philanthropy can skill markets and you can give us the wrong things that the lead us to bad things too. So I don't think it's clear cut. Like my ideal is you have core devs with clear incentives working for companies that fund their lives and they integrate the things that the market through their salaries dictate to do.Is it nice to have researchers doing things non-string attacks? Absolutely. It's just that, you know, philanthropy can cause a lot of fucking damage. You know, it can prevent new players from coming in. You know, it's like, should we still do it? Absolutely.But I'm saying it's not like, you know, perfect and beautiful and consequence free.

Speaker 11391.7s - 1462.94s

We don't live in a vacuum. And the way I see it, the regulatory environment today that we live in is a little bit overplayed in terms of an attack on self-custody users, in my opinion. I think most self-custody users will be fine. I think most regulated businesses will be completely fine. You know, the strikes of the world, the coin bases of the world, the cash apps of the world, they have all their MSBs, they have their money licenses,they'd KYC to the kazoo of all the users. They'll be fine. What I see is an attack on founders trying to build profitable freedom tech businesses that don't collect personal identifiable information and try and monetize it. And as a result, it is an attack on founders and it's an attack on the ability to monetize open source software.And as a result, the only real response we have is to provide no strings attached funding to open source contributors that are not necessarily directly monetizing their projects. It's the unfortunate reality because we do not live in a vacuum. I agree.

Speaker 21463.82s - 1468.18s

If I may, I want to respond in many things here that we're just discussed.

Speaker 11468.26s - 1468.96s

Go ahead, Steve PERSON.

Speaker 21469.46s - 1480.78s

So, first of all, I thanks O'Dell for the non-spat nudge to me because I believe I've engaged Sailor PERSON since then.

Speaker 51480.86s - 1484.84s

First of all, I listened to his three-hour podcast with Levera ORG to understand his position.

Speaker 21505.72s - 1553.3s

And the Bitcoin's's degree underneath Manhattan. I largely agree with everything he said in that podcast. He just didn't go into the details of software changes. So I went on Levera ORG and talked about more of the nuances and details of software changes. I then spoke with him, and I think he's far more aligned with me me and I suspect most of us here on this call than was just discussed. Oh, we lost Steve PERSON. Sailor PERSON pulled the plug. Sailor PERSON pulled the plug. We lost you, Steve PERSON.I know. I'm out. So I am hopeful to, and I shared some projects with him that he actually agreed are valuable and need dev funding. So I still have an aspirational goal to not only get him so he does not block others, but actually micro strategy himself would fund developers. And he has funded like MIT ORG DCI security initiative in the past. So, and he also was a contributor to the COPA, Craig Wright PERSON case.So anyway.

Speaker 51554.24s - 1557.98s

Let's get him to donate to OpenSAT and do a great PR campaign about it.

Speaker 11558.2s - 1566.04s

I mean, I just, while we're at it, there's like no shot in hell he listens to this podcast. But Michael, if you're listening, I would love to... Of course he listens to it.

Speaker 61566.04s - 1568.04s

I would love to jump on a call

Speaker 51568.04s - 1584s

sometime in chat. I've yet to actually talk to him directly, but it's not been through a lack of trying. It's too bad that the Bitcoin Miami conference doesn't happen in Miami GPE anymore, becausethat would facilitate that very easily. I'll fly

Speaker 11584s - 1585.12s

to you, Saylor. Also, now that micro-strategy easily. I'll fly to you, Sailor PERSON.

Speaker 31586.02s - 1591.56s

Also, now that micro-strategy is doing inscriptions, if you want to talk to me, I'm happy to get on the phone.

Speaker 51591.66s - 1596.04s

I can give you all kinds of alpha and hot tips. You have a bag of cats to sell.

Speaker 21596.68s - 1598.92s

As far as it looks like we may.

Speaker 01599.5s - 1606.2s

I froze again. Tell Sailor PERSON, inscriptions would be so much cheaper with all these softworks. That is true. Yeah.

Speaker 51606.66s - 1609.7s

But, you know, by the way, I took a peek at the deed thing.

Speaker 01609.78s - 1610.78s

It really is just RGB.

Speaker 51611.56s - 1613.5s

Isn't it? Like, that's what he looked like.

Speaker 11613.84s - 1614.28s

What is?

Speaker 51615.02s - 1619.36s

He's talking about Sailor PERSON's K-Y-C on the blockchain using inscriptions proposal.

Speaker 11620.32s - 1621.46s

It's like DIDs.

Speaker 51621.48s - 1622.52s

It's so weird.

Speaker 11622.78s - 1624.94s

It's D-I-Ds that get inscribed.

Speaker 31625.22s - 1642.84s

So there's like the whole DID like in an inscription. My favorite, my favorite, I have two favorite parts of the spec because I actually read the spec. It was two o'clock in the morning. I was at Bitcoin Plus Plus PRODUCT. We were at the bar and I was drinking and yelling at the top of my lungs over the music highlights from the spec. It was a great time.Everybody missed it.

Speaker 61643.04s - 1644.06s

My two favorite things.

Speaker 31644.14s - 1688.3s

One of them is they're using inscriptions to batch more DIDs into a transaction. So they actually had a comparison table of it was number of DIDs per V byte. So I love that somebody had to make an Excel PRODUCT sheet of like DIDS per V byte, like fantastic. And then the other part is that DID updates are a JSON blob that they're inscribing. So it's this weird mix of like inscriptions and sort of like BRC20s, but it's for DIDs. And the thing that I want to figure out is I need to go and reread the spec and figure out what kind of like authenticity is in this format because I would love to build a SOFON that can front run people's DIDs.I think that would be great. God PERSON bless autism.

Speaker 51688.56s - 1688.72s

Yeah.

Speaker 31689.3s - 1690.26s

Can I just use this?

Speaker 01690.94s - 1698.1s

Can I propose a hard fork right now? If you can parse your Bitcoin transaction into JSON, I don't want that on my note. Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 51698.64s - 1701.48s

Yeah, there is lines that we don't cross.

Speaker 31702.5s - 1714.5s

So, you know, Paul, I wrote a shell script on Christmas Day. It's called gelt.s.h, and it parses transactions and look for an inscription. And if it sees it, it invalidates the block.

Speaker 61715.1s - 1720.92s

So if, you know, like one line of modification, you could take that transaction that contains

Speaker 31720.92s - 1726.14s

an inscription and run it through JQ. And if it parses as valid JSON, then just kick the block out.

Speaker 01726.24s - 1727.2s

There we go. That's funny.

Speaker 31727.32s - 1727.82s

Look at that.

Speaker 01727.94s - 1732.4s

Small, slow, steady improvements. It's all in user space. You control what's on your node.

Speaker 21733.76s - 1738.68s

And, you never really answered your question about where do all the developers

Speaker 31738.68s - 1740.56s

trying to get consensus changes in?

Speaker 01740.66s - 1742.42s

And if it doesn't happen in five years, where do they go?

Speaker 21743.08s - 1743.84s

Where did they bust?

Speaker 51744.56s - 1748.56s

All the enthusiasm, like at the the BTC Plus Plus Conference EVENT and all of the,

Speaker 21748.68s - 1781.06s

there's like 10 different mishmashes of covenant proposals now. I think all of that energy and dev work is positive. Even though I'm team slow and steady, I think all of that is fantastic. Where I start to get, like, concerned is around, I have people pinging me saying, hey, Opcats are going to be activated in six months.Or, and I have VCs pinging me saying, like, it's going to be activated this year. And I'm like, I don't see that. My experience of Bitcoin, that's not going to happen this year, without like some kind of insane drama.

Speaker 51781.32s - 1786.22s

No, but the question is that where do they explode in case it doesn't get activated for five years?

Speaker 11786.58s - 1788.06s

I'm sorry, who are those fucking VCs?

Speaker 51790.48s - 1793.02s

No, Matt PERSON, the real question should be for you is,

Speaker 11793.02s - 1794.42s

who are those LPs?

Speaker 51794.72s - 1803.54s

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it was really interesting at the conference that

Speaker 31803.54s - 1825.38s

most of the covenant proposals that I saw, like assumed OpCat. So it might be something that that ends up being like a lowest common denominator kind of between these proposals and like maybe like, you know, that this is like part of consensus building, right? It's like what are the common things that as people try different ideas, people are discovering that there's like common usage between these things? different ideas, people are discovering that there's like common usage between these things.

Speaker 51830.6s - 1839.1s

Now, the real question is who's going to cross the desert on a donkey to go ask GMAX ORG what he thinks? That's right. Because that's it. If somebody comes back with proof of life and GMAX ORG's opinion, it gets activated.

Speaker 11839.54s - 1845.12s

Has he not? When was the last time he spoke publicly? Yeah. What? When was the last time you spoke publicly? Ah, What? When was the last time you spoke publicly?

Speaker 51845.94s - 1847.44s

Ah, fuck, I don't know. I don't track this thing.

Speaker 21851.54s - 1868.72s

So two pieces of advice, though, like all the developers who are enthusiastic right now about various covenant proposals, if we want to get consensus on a change, I think it starts with the group of developers who are enthusiastic about all these proposals. And right now there's like 10 different proposals. So to me, step one is those developers need to figure out, get consensus among themselves.

Speaker 51869.14s - 1870.98s

There's like 50 proposals, by the way.

Speaker 21871.12s - 1898.38s

Or 50, whatever. Then get the rest of the dev community on board and then go to all of Bitcoin ORG. And a second piece of advice would be sharpening the articulation around the use case and benefits. So we talk about like, Bindale PERSON, you mentioned like scaling lightning or more non-custodial. 100% agree, that is a big problem in risk right now. But articulating that better and other use cases, I think is really important to get

Speaker 31898.38s - 1925.66s

conceptus. I'll go even further. Like when people say things like timeout trees, like the median bitcoiner is not going to wake up and say like, hell yeah, I need timeout trees because like people don't know what that means. I think like if you want to build consensus, you know, people don't, don't buy like tech. They buy like solutions to problems. Like the Bitcoin community needs to understand if we'regoing to go through all this activation energy to do a consensus change. Like what are you getting on the other side of it?

Speaker 51925.96s - 1935.18s

What they need is a thorough knack and they go on screen and they go, it's a phone, it's a music player, it's a phone, it's a music player, it's a phone, I can do this for an hour.

Speaker 31935.46s - 1936.32s

That's exactly right.

Speaker 51936.86s - 1948.08s

All right, boys, I think we know where this discussion goes, which is nowhere. So vulnerability disclosures. I love that one. Developers exist.

Speaker 01949.48s - 1950.36s

That's right. Developers exist.

Speaker 51951.92s - 1952.82s

But birds don't.

Speaker 01962.3s - 1962.86s

Satan, which is a SATA and AirGap expiltration attack via radio signals from SATA cables.

Speaker 51963.84s - 1964.54s

Man, that's awesome.

Speaker 01965.68s - 1968.6s

Yeah, this is like NVK buzzword bingo.

Speaker 51969.02s - 1969.4s

It's like...

Speaker 01969.4s - 1969.86s

Right?

Speaker 51970.02s - 1971.2s

It's like radio

Speaker 31971.2s - 1974.44s

from general purpose hardware

Speaker 51974.44s - 2027.88s

lets you exfiltrate keys. Like, that's an NVK bingo. So what people don't know is when you have super high speed lines, okay, like thatHDMI, SAT, a lot of the stuff, right, they produce very recognizable EMF, right, and radio frequencies that, like, you can actually capture. So a lot of guys are figured out that they can just exploit these things and it's going to get nasty out there because, you know, again, we've been saying for a long time, don't put the Bitcoin in the computer, put it in the harder wallet. But, you know, people don't listen, of course.So what are you going to see is more people in the world doing the stupid thing. There is more incentives for these guys to do these absurd things. This is actually quite absurd, but really cool, nonetheless.

Speaker 12028.7s - 2033.84s

Specifically, SET cables are for hard drives, right? They connect hard drives. Do they use them for anything else?

Speaker 52034.74s - 2056.42s

Well, you can put, there is some hardware out there that leverages some of the sports to do other things internally, right? So sometimes they're wired differently, sometimes, you know, PCI Express PRODUCT and whatever. So you can take this as like, it could be in a lot of embedded computers, for example, right? Because they will have high-speed lines for things.

Speaker 02057.06s - 2068.14s

With typical disk encryption, that's happening in the CPU and then go over the CETA cable, right? Would you be good for, or do some disks do the encryption themselves? Wow, the CETA cable, right? Would you be good? Or do some disks do the encryption themselves?

Speaker 52069.4s - 2117.84s

Wow, so here's the thing, right? On a show or two ago, we saw that Windows ORG laptop that had the keys clear taxed on the TPM chip, right? So essentially where the secret, the private key for decrypting the hard drive was. And it was communicating that key, clear attacks through the bus. So the guy just goes there, puts like two cables on the bus. And like, boom, you have the key. Now, these things get interesting, right?So what if you write firmware that captures that key and now broadcasts over radio, right? where that captures that key and now broadcasts over radio, right? Like using the last show's episode, vulnerability, or two feels ago, where you can do Laura over the pins on a Raspberry Pi PRODUCT and do longer distance with that. This shit's going to get crazy.I love it.

Speaker 32118.26s - 2124.5s

Yeah, I haven't read the paper, but I wonder if this is more interesting for like things that end up in swap.

Speaker 52124.68s - 2125.04s

Yes.

Speaker 32125.22s - 2127.14s

And they're like fully on disk.

Speaker 52127.54s - 2162.68s

What's interesting here is the trend, not the specific use case of this specific attack, right? So the trend is all these guys are figuring out how to broadcast the data out. That's the beautiful thing here. All right. Moldward, possible DNS traffic leakoutside of VPN tunnel and this was an Android PRODUCT attack probably because of how Google ORG does Google and Apple ORG probably bypass the VPN for their own shit because they control the VPN stack on the phoneYeah I mean

Speaker 12162.68s - 2202.66s

first of all MoVved is one of, I only have, that I only publicly talk about three trusted VPN providers. Hosted VPNs are a trusted product. You're completely trusting them with everything. And I like MoVAT ORG.I like IPPN ORG. I like Proton VPN PRODUCT. But MoVAD ORG does a lot of really great public open research in terms of vulnerabilities. And this specifically is with Android PRODUCT users.And it's not their stack. Yeah. It's Android PRODUCT stack. So they reported the vulnerability to Android developers, which I guess just goes straight to like Google ORG HQ. Like I don't know who that is.

Speaker 52202.98s - 2203.74s

There's nobody else.

Speaker 12203.74s - 2209.74s

But yeah, there's DNS leaks. If you, there's DNS leaks if you use any, I believe if you use any Android PRODUCT VPN client.

Speaker 32210.26s - 2212.96s

Yeah, this doesn't look like it's a MOLVAT issue.

Speaker 12212.96s - 2216.46s

It's a Android PRODUCT VPN issue.

Speaker 32217.1s - 2217.26s

Yeah.

Speaker 52218s - 2271.26s

And Apple ORG unaffected, however, assume that Apple ORG probably has a similar bug that just hasn't been found. Bug. Yeah, it's a feature. Between quotes. All right. assume that Apple ORG probably has a similar bug that just hasn't been filed. Bug. Yeah. It's a feature. Between quotes.All right. So yeah, guys, like, as we said many times, like, phones are not good for privacy things. Assume phones are fully backdored. Just everything's backdored. Everything's backdored. Phone's extra backdored.The state is not going to let you have encrypted comms without a backdoor in it. U.S. federal officials alert on active exploitation of GitLab PRODUCT account hijack vulnerability. The active vulnerability allows account hijacks via password reset email and is still being exploited since its disclosure. Awesome. Great. Assume your GitHub or GitLab PRODUCT issues are possibly public.

Speaker 32271.74s - 2279s

Yeah, it looks like this affects both the community edition and the Enterprise Edition PRODUCT. So whether you're hosted or if you're hosting your own.

Speaker 52279.72s - 2313.1s

So one thing I've noticed and part of the reason why we have the bot, what's the bot that we have, binary watch bot? It's too many projects. So here's the issue, right? Everybody just assumes that a binary on GitHub ORG or on a dev's website is kosher, right? Because, oh, you know, GitHub ORG cannot replace that binary there. Yeah, but somebody could replace the binary there with the right access to the project.We saw this happen to, what was it? Was it joint market? No.

Speaker 12313.46s - 2327.62s

Monaro ORG had happened to. That too. Manaro ORG was the, to me, was the big one because there was a lot of downloads. It was like on their main website. Because usually when it happens, it's like either a targeted person. Yes. Or it gets caught right away.

Speaker 52328.24s - 2332.64s

Well, normally they leave it there for a targeted person and they take it out right away, right? Like that's...

Speaker 12332.64s - 2338.5s

And this is why you're supposed to PGP verify or GPT verify downloads, but very few people

Speaker 52338.5s - 2351.96s

do. Very important to happen. Follow that bot because if the, if the binary was changed, you would have screamed. And, you know, just don't trust binary download. Just PGP

Speaker 42351.96s - 2353.78s

verify your downloads. Yes.

Speaker 52354.62s - 2356.22s

At a minimum, just check the Shassum PRODUCT.

Speaker 42356.94s - 2357.94s

Yeah, but a lot of times

Speaker 12357.94s - 2360.06s

the Shossum PRODUCT is posted at the same

Speaker 42360.06s - 2361.32s

website. Yes.

Speaker 52362.06s - 2363.82s

So, like, ideally you already

Speaker 12363.82s - 2415.64s

have the PGP or GPG key of the dev from previously. You're not pulling it from the same website that you just pull the download from. And you've, this is now a trusted key for you and then you're going to verify it. I will say there's some interesting things happening on the Noster side because at the core, Nostr PRODUCT's simply, you know, signed messages. I'm so, like, one of the ways humanity has solved this problem is through app stores, right?So all app store, Google Play ORG, Apple App Store ORG is, all of those are supposed to be signed, but who's doing the verification is Apple and Google ORG, who we can't fucking trust. So imagine if you did that, but instead of having that trusted third party, it was all done natively through Noster PRODUCT, I think, is kind of a compelling option.

Speaker 52415.9s - 2418.76s

There was a project for that. I forgot the name of the project.

Speaker 32419.24s - 2424.28s

Well, so how does, are they like broadcasting like binary signatures? Like, what are they doing on

Speaker 02424.28s - 2454.26s

Noster PRODUCT? It's still kind of early. Zap.com. The Zap. Farnzap ORG is working on this. We've actually, we did this in Madeira GPE. We published a signed binary of Mutiny PRODUCT for Android to Zap.Dot store and installed it on a device. You, like, sign it with your Noster PRODUCT key, right? Yeah. Yeah. Which is, I mean, it's, yeah, how, it's not like sign it with your Noster PRODUCT key. Yeah. Yeah. Which is, I mean, it's, yeah, how it's, it's not like it's so different than PGP. It's more just like this is something that a lot of people have access to.It can be really simple.

Speaker 52454.72s - 2459.38s

You want to your brain blown. Okay. Noster PRODUCT is just like BGP. Yeah.

Speaker 32459.48s - 2469.66s

I mean, the thing is that like it's a lot harder to rotate Noster PRODUCT. Yes. Keys and identities than it is like GPG keys and identities. So I think if that's the fan's going to trick. But we can solve that super easy.

Speaker 12469.82s - 2480.44s

Pablo PERSON spec makes, it's like super clean. It's like you just have a signed broadcast message that says like, I will rotate to these keys when I say I will rotate and it's a one way function.

Speaker 52480.44s - 2497.98s

It's like I'm rotating. Well, no, but here's the problem. Matt PERSON, like, I remember working with Pablo on this. There's two issues. One is there is a timing attack there, right? So you could sort of like have somebody do something before the person gets the message. Yeah, yeah, before the message

Speaker 12497.98s - 2503.34s

broadcasts. No, but even then, right? You're trusting that the clients are honest. Of course, but it's

Speaker 52503.34s - 2507.14s

simple. No, but the other problem is we cannot rotate the parent key.

Speaker 32507.36s - 2509.48s

Yeah, the top level one, right? Yes.

Speaker 52509.72s - 2511.9s

Yeah, but the whole point is it's just a one-way function.

Speaker 12511.9s - 2532.66s

And even if an attacker has access to your key, you could, you still have access to your key, so you can still broadcast. But the point is, it's simple, and I like simple fucking things. I will say on the PGP verification front, we actually, last time I was on Bitcoin review was with Craig of Sparrow PRODUCT, and he added the ability to just drag and drop

Speaker 42532.66s - 2552.82s

binaries into Sparrow PRODUCT, and he has the keys for that. But it's still better than people just not verifying key software. So that was cool. And I think that's a great way for at least certain high-level projects like Bitcoin Core PRODUCT and stuff like that. better than people just not verifying key software. So that was cool.And I think that's a great way for at least certain high-level projects like Bitcoin Core PRODUCT and stuff like that. You can just drag and drop in a sparrow and it'll verify for you.

Speaker 52558.66s - 2558.94s

For harder wallets, prefer harder wallets to check the firmware internally before they accept the firmware.

Speaker 12559.62s - 2560.24s

Secure element.

Speaker 52563.62s - 2578.82s

Well, not just, yeah, I mean, yes, you need the place to put the certificates. But aside from that, like, you know, Trezor, Ledger, Code Card, I think Jade PRODUCT might do it as well. You know, they check the firmware before they allow you to load it. And they'll give you at least a warning, right?

Speaker 12579.12s - 2587.5s

No, the only person who can upload malicious firmware to your cold card is MVP PRODUCT. Which is a net benefit. Right.

Speaker 52588.42s - 2638.1s

Anyways, that always feels great. No, but it's reproducibly built and you can go check the fucking source yourself. And then you make sure you put it in. Going forward here, coordinated attack on Docker Hub PRODUCT via malicious repositories increased cyber attack targeting Docker where attackers create millions of malicious repositories to distribute malware orchestrated fishing scams fun times you know that one reminds me a little bitof the of the remember that attack that happened on Ledger PRODUCT where you had the CDN attack. Oh, yeah. They replaced the, they replaced the, the, it was for like the wallet connect for like an ether wallet, yeah.

Speaker 32638.3s - 2644.1s

Yeah, the JS code that was there for one of the shit coin contracts things and then boom, money gone.

Speaker 52645.02s - 2681.72s

Yeah, cannot trust servers. Do not connect your fucking computers to the internet coin contracts, things, and then boom, money gone. Yep, cannot trust servers. Do not connect your fucking computers to the internet to the Bitcoin things. Please, people. Cuckoo! Persistent macOS spyware, InfoSteler PRODUCT operates as a hybrid of spyware and info steel. I mean, I'm so dyslexic.Targeting both Intel and Arm BaseMax PRODUCT through a deceptive software installation. For Max PRODUCT, guys, like, please just run it on lockdown mode at all times. It does help with a lot of the shit.

Speaker 02687.24s - 2703.76s

Yeah, this is one of those things where, I mean, there's no guarantee that app stores are going to catch all this stuff, but that's, you know, part of their purpose. But, you know, bringing this verification stuff down to the user level, understanding that people are, you know, because of the restrictions on app stores, people are downloading apps in other ways.

Speaker 62706.42s - 2706.72s

And so they get none of the nice stuff.

Speaker 02711.08s - 2714.72s

Like, it makes more sense to me instead of making it harder to do that, like try to add as much of the nice stuff as you can to even arbitrary downloads.

Speaker 52715.84s - 2729.82s

Well, I mean, you know, like, Wild Gardens LOC do help. You know, it's a shame that we live in a complete surveillance state, but they do help people who are very incapable of checking their own things.

Speaker 32730.6s - 2751.82s

It would be really nice if there was like a equivalent of Let's Encrypt ORG, but for app signing keys. Because like this used to be a problem with TLS years ago where, you know, if you wanted to turn on SSL on your website, you needed to go and like pay, you know, $200 to bear a sign. And it was like a pain in the ass.

Speaker 52752.06s - 2757.06s

But you still have to share your certificate, your private keys for your SSL with the CAs, right?

Speaker 32757.18s - 2761.6s

Like, no, no, you, you send a certificate signing request to Let's ORG encrypt.

Speaker 52761.7s - 2770.48s

Okay. And they sign a cert for you. And you have to rotate, you have to renew your cert every three or six months or something like that. That's reasonable.

Speaker 32770.48s - 2780.88s

But, you know, like, MacOS, it has signature checking built in for signed apps, but it's a, it's a gate kept process to get an app signing key.

Speaker 62781.02s - 2784.66s

If there was like an equivalent of Let's encrypt WORK_OF_ART where if you're an open source

Speaker 02784.66s - 2798.84s

dev and you could like run something and get a signed key from Apple ORG, you know, people might still download your signed malware, but at least if you're distributing like not signed malware, people could still verify that it's actually yours without having to learn how to use GPG.

Speaker 52799.38s - 2802.18s

Naked Britney Spears.exe, but sign.

Speaker 12802.68s - 2811.78s

Signing solves a very specific thing, right? It's I'm getting the software from the person I believe I'm getting the software. That's right. It doesn't trust you from that person.

Speaker 32812.08s - 2816.06s

Yeah, it doesn't tell you that it's good code. It tells you that it's the code that you think

Speaker 12816.06s - 2821.4s

you're downloading. Which is very important. But it does a very specific thing.

Speaker 52821.96s - 2825s

Sign software without deterministic builds is pointless.

Speaker 12825.26s - 2825.36s

Yeah.

Speaker 52828.9s - 2829.28s

Because you just get a false sense of security, which is more dangerous, right?

Speaker 12835.72s - 2856.16s

No, it's still less dangerous, in my opinion, than unsigned software where you don't know who you're getting it from. But yes, I agree that reproducible builds is obviously a massive net benefit. I stood up because I just want to highlight, it's a shame that we live in a surveillance state, having said that, which is just a ridiculous, ridiculous sentence. Okay, we can continue.

Speaker 52858.96s - 2870.92s

So, Bitcoin ORG software releases and project updates. Sparrow version 1.9.0. Do you want to do seated or standing, Matt PERSON?

Speaker 12871.62s - 2883.94s

I mostly do standing now for all of my shows, but I also realize that I'm going to be going for like five hours straight. So I just took a little rest. You don't have to call me out for a second.

Speaker 52883.94s - 2888.38s

No, we're going to be calling out every move. I want to let everyone else know that is listening,

Speaker 12888.54s - 2892.94s

since this is a non-video show, that the other four guys are, they have been sitting this entire time.

Speaker 52893.06s - 2898s

I sat for about five minutes. How do you know it? Maybe I'm like, maybe I'm not sitting here.

Speaker 12898.24s - 2903.92s

I see the chair. I'm just faking it. I'm just pushing it in my life. All right,

Speaker 52904s - 2912.12s

Sparrow Wallet, version 1.9.0. Remove Whirlpool ORG client and other sort of unrelated features and dependencies.

Speaker 12913.34s - 2922.06s

Brutal, not fun. I feel for Craig PERSON. I, you know, I'm not a lawyer. I don't know what the best advice is for him here.

Speaker 52922.18s - 2927.14s

He probably did what he had to do. Being a martyr is not a solution.

Speaker 12927.36s - 2965.26s

I will say functionality-wise, it doesn't change anything. World Pool PRODUCT wasn't working. The plan to decentralize Whirlpool ORG was in its infancy and hadn't actually gotten rolled out, so you couldn't use Whirlpool through Sparrow Wallet PRODUCT. And he didn't remove the derivation path stuff.So everyone that had funds in those self-custody wallets still has access to those wallets. So from a functionality point of view for users, they still have everything they need to to to spend their Bitcoin and access their Bitcoin. But yeah.

Speaker 52965.8s - 2991.36s

I mean, I have to say thanks to Craig PERSON because on the previous show when he, I don't know if he was there or not, but he actually added a bunch of features of requests, but didn't tell me. So like, I went on and I'm like, dude, this is just working. He's like, yeah. And then I went to see the detailed release and all the features I asked for added.So thanks, Craig PERSON. Yeah, dude's a fucking legend.

Speaker 12991.82s - 2998.26s

No, so this pod is actually the sole purpose is to have Craig PERSON come on and then we asked him for features live.

Speaker 52998.7s - 3065.56s

And we explained correctly and then he makes them. All right. Code card. Shared improvements for Mark 4 PRODUCT and Q. So this is version 1.2.0 Q for Q and version 5.3.0 for Mark 4 PRODUCT. Admin, Chuck, and Zeus PRODUCT, options to export wallet, view,identity shows temporary seat active at the top. Can't specify index for address explorer and browsing. Allow unlimited index for BAP 85 derivations. People are crazy, but it's in the danger zone now. Allow export for multi-sig ex-pub via barbecue QR. Import multi-sig via barbecue QR.Status bar contact sharper now. Ability to write, sign PSPT, there's a lower B, on the lower B, on the other SD card.Mark 4. When providing 12 to or 18 seed phrase, valid, final word choices are presented in new menu. It's also silly because there's too many words, but anyways,people want to do what they want to do.

Speaker 13066.24s - 3074.84s

So, MBK, my understanding is like it's the same hardware inside the case, MK4 PRODUCT and Q. Why do you have different releases?

Speaker 53075.3s - 3079.3s

Because they have different hardware additions, right?

Speaker 13079.82s - 3081.76s

Like the laser barcode scanner.

Speaker 53082.12s - 3082.76s

The barcode.

Speaker 13082.94s - 3086.42s

And there is a GPU that we had to add so we could blink the cursor.

Speaker 53088.3s - 3094.02s

Literally. It's not a joke. The display and the hardware is very limited.

Speaker 33094.44s - 3095.56s

When can you play Doom PRODUCT?

Speaker 53097.94s - 3107.08s

This one is going to be a very interesting project if somebody makes it happen. The screen is too big for I-square-C, so we are applying 80s PRODUCT.

Speaker 33107.3s - 3115.72s

Okay. Thinking we turn off the display to fresher and faster. Lots of fun stuff in there. Let's see it.

Speaker 53116.84s - 3143.72s

Move dice rows for generated into advanced menu. We sort of rejigged menus a little bit more. Using verify address in NFC Tools ORG menu. I think it's not here.It's missing, but we made the QR scan, the Q PRODUCTR on the screen of the Q bigger. All right. LibSack P-256K1 version 0.5.0.

Speaker 33143.96s - 3167.82s

So it's not on the list, but there's actually a really awesome change in this release. There's a new multiplication algorithm for doing EC multiplication that gets like, I don't know, 15% faster Pubkey generation and like 10 to 15% better signing, which is awesome.

Speaker 53168.76s - 3172.72s

No, it's so two things are super cool on this and it's also a lot smaller.

Speaker 63172.72s - 3175.82s

The whole library, they saved a lot of room.

Speaker 53176.54s - 3220.2s

Power to them. I had them on an episode if you want to learn more about LibSac PRODUCT. This is like literally the most important piece of cryptographic software in like the planet. It's probably the most watched piece of cryptography implementation in the planet too. Your life savings depend on it. And a lot of things are getting built now on Lipsack PRODUCT that are not necessarily just Bitcoin.People are using this curve to end and this implementation to make things not get fucked. Like Nostr. Yeah, like Nostr PRODUCT. It's, anyways, it's really cool. I highly recommend people follow the project, follow the maintainers.

Speaker 23220.2s - 3246.04s

I totally agree. And because it's not really part of Bitcoin Core PRODUCT, I think most people just think Bitcoin Core is like the only project in the space. But this is, as you just said, it's just as important as like the consensus code in Bitcoin Core PRODUCT. Yeah. It's absolutely unparr. And like the developers that work on that are really crucial to Bitcoin.So we had them on. It really crucial to Bitcoin. We had them on.

Speaker 53247.56s - 3256.02s

It was a great episode. I kind of love the fact that it's not on core. It's like a separate repo. It's actually

Speaker 33256.02s - 3257.62s

in the core repository, which is...

Speaker 53257.62s - 3260.02s

Yes, but in a separate repo, right? Which makes

Speaker 33260.02s - 3265.72s

it like... Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot better. So like the politics don't spill over to the people doing real math.

Speaker 23266.92s - 3283.6s

There's not many developers either, right? I mean, the few that are very talented and a long history of Bitcoin, but I am excited to sort of pre-announce the spiral grant, there's a summer of Bitcoin. Oh, there goes the shield.

Speaker 53283.76s - 3288.8s

He needs to talk about his philanthropy bags. Yes.

Speaker 63289.46s - 3291.52s

We earned zero revenue off this, though.

Speaker 53292.04s - 3293.24s

That's a joke.

Speaker 23294.48s - 3298.44s

But, no, so there's a Summer Bitcoin alum

Speaker 63298.44s - 3302.66s

who has been contributing to the project for a couple of years now.

Speaker 23302.82s - 3313.48s

The old-timers in that project have been, you know, mentoring him. And we're going to give him a grant to be announced soon. That's great.

Speaker 03314.4s - 3315.52s

I love hearing that.

Speaker 23316.06s - 3320.54s

There's something interesting about this specific library and cryptography in general.

Speaker 03320.66s - 3350.1s

Like, the first thing you learn as a developer about cryptography is that you don't do your own cryptography. And so, that's a great lesson to learn, but it also, like, stunts the pipeline. Like, in every other, like, line of development, it's like, yeah, make a bad, dumb game, you know, make a bad, dumb website, you know, and that's how you learn to get better. But, like, nobody wants you to ship bad, dumb crypto.So, like, there's a, there's a challenge in finding a good pipeline for, for new developers. If there is one thing

Speaker 53350.1s - 3374.06s

that like competitors agree on is often using the same cryptographic library, it's like, that is the standard. It's not the opposite. It's better if everybody uses it. And there is a bit of a monoculture on that. You know, the eyes are on it. I mean, just the amount of work they do on side channel, it's amazing. I don't think L&D ORG uses it, though.

Speaker 23374.44s - 3385.06s

I think they have their own implementation of that curve in Go PRODUCT. Well, hipster languages. I find that scary personally.

Speaker 33386.18s - 3406.32s

I had Bitcoin Plus Plus last week, I was talking to somebody who's working on Bitcoin J PRODUCT, like the Java PRODUCT implementation, and he's doing a lot of work to basically have their Java bindings just call LibSec PRODUCT. Yes. So that they don't have to maintain all this stuff. And they get it all for free.

Speaker 53406.76s - 3427.74s

I mean, we, you know, we put this inside code card. There is LibSac PRODUCT. Like we like unchanged lib sac in there. You know, there is no need for people to be running anything else, especially because the other things are often mixed to shit coins as well. This is a fantastic library.It is reproducibly built.

Speaker 23428.72s - 3446.44s

That is hyper optimized. I mean, Rindell mentioned a recent one, but like maybe four years ago there was a massive optimization that I don't think any other library implementing it has.And then it also has a bunch of constant time optimizations to protect against side channel attacks. Yep, yes.

Speaker 53447.16s - 3477.14s

Listen to the episode, guys. It was two hours and a half of Jonas Nick PERSON and the guy sort of like talking about it. We talked about the multiplication improvements and all kinds of things. But it was cool because it was not just about the math on it. It was about like, you know, the importance of crypto libraries. And so people understand what thefuck this things are. All right. Different category. Umbril PRODUCT version 1.1.1. Edit support for X86 devices.

Speaker 33477.74s - 3482.64s

I'm glad that we went from like hyper secure, very scrutinized code to Umbril PRODUCT. Yes.

Speaker 53483.24s - 3543.6s

They do have better hardware now, which is great. Different purpose, different tradeoffs, different things. Blockstream Green, iOS PRODUCT version 4.0.27. Support, push notifications to receive lightning payments, empty lightning account, export lightning logs, steal no PSBT support. Blue wallet version 6.6.3Add privacy money fast for Apple ORG. Number in widget should be formatted to a decimal. Nung Chuck Finney, they updatedsome of their software here. I have the support for multiple subscriptions. No, this is just the business logic. Ability to stimulus change the keys Android ultra high QRsetting. That's good to see. People make shitty fucking QRs for no reason on a phone screens beyond me. The screens have like a thousand DPI anyways.

Speaker 23544.2s - 3547.98s

Have you talked about Finney PERSON? I mean, it's their inheritance, right? Yes. Have you talked about Finney? I mean, it's their inheritance, right?

Speaker 53548.2s - 3552.6s

Yes. Have you talked about it in the show already? Yes, a little bit, but do you have impressions?

Speaker 23554.06s - 3581.66s

Nothing specific. I mean, it's largely an unsolved problem in the space, and there's a variety of solutions, right? Yes. That's a good thing. Like, if you look at Casa, Unchain, Nuncheck ORG, I know the big key team's looking into it.So I'm seeing different solutions, I think that's really positive. Yes. I don't think any of this. Well, first of all, I suspect that they'll, the long term, they'll need to be different solutions. People have different, different needs.Different people are different needs.

Speaker 53581.96s - 3583.52s

Different tradeoffs, right?

Speaker 23583.94s - 3598.24s

So, you know, some people will want to use, like, escrow or a lawyer or something like that, and others will want to be, like, fully self-sovereign and trust no one. And, you know, so there's going to besolutions to appeal to both. You know, I think

Speaker 53598.24s - 3650.18s

the problem that we still have is that, you know, it goes back to on-chain problems, is that, like, you know, again, we don't have rules on the outputs. We only have it on the inputs.So, you know, we are still having to depend on this extremely, an ideal primitives for this stuff. So essentially, all thefucking solutions suck. But, like, power to the devs we're trying to build something. It's very fucking hard to do this. It's very hard to deal with things post-morton. And like, you know, you have nerd money and you're trying to pass this on and still maintaining privacy and making sure that a widow does not lose the money to whoever is helping handle that. It's all very difficult.And so all the solutions try to do very different tradeoffs.

Speaker 13650.84s - 3656.12s

The biggest issue is that the air, if you're thinking about it correctly, should be part of the threat model.

Speaker 63656.24s - 3665.34s

And it's not just like your air stealing your money. You don't want like your wife or your children to be subject to a portion,

Speaker 53665.74s - 3667.48s

a $10 wrench attack. Yeah.

Speaker 13667.72s - 3672.4s

So they can't have access by design and it's a bearer asset, right?

Speaker 53672.5s - 3675.02s

And ideally they don't even know how much there is. It's even better too.

Speaker 13675.16s - 3675.48s

Yeah.

Speaker 63676.4s - 3677s

That's the,

Speaker 13677.08s - 3699.16s

that's a fundamental, that's a fundamental concern. I will say like today, we are way better off than we were two years ago, insanely better off than we were two years ago, insanely better off than we were five years ago. So progress on that front seems to be moving quite quickly. And also, there's, it's a relatively easy product to monetize, I think. Yes. That's the only way to

Speaker 53699.16s - 3705.8s

monetize because normal wallets you can't really monetize. Yeah. But I really think that

Speaker 63705.8s - 3707.52s

the next stage now is,

Speaker 13708.18s - 3709.68s

again, doesn't need consensus changes,

Speaker 63709.78s - 3711.84s

is to see what people can do with Frost PRODUCT or

Speaker 53711.84s - 3713.82s

Arctic PRODUCT, the new version

Speaker 13713.82s - 3715.76s

of Frost that Jimmy PERSON is working on.

Speaker 53716.76s - 3723.42s

I think it might crack the next iteration of this thing because Multisig PRODUCT sucks.

Speaker 13723.84s - 3733.4s

I would just say that multi-sig is awesome and widespread use of multi-sig is part of the reason why we're way better off where we are now than two years ago.

Speaker 53733.82s - 3735.72s

Man, this is a pod for the devs.

Speaker 13735.88s - 3737.68s

We're not selling to the...

Speaker 53737.68s - 3740.68s

But that's the problem... Multi-sync sucks!

Speaker 13741.02s - 3746.24s

I like to see... Maltisic PRODUCT is like the most powerful fucking thing.

Speaker 53746.5s - 3748.22s

But anyway. It's what we have.

Speaker 13748.28s - 3798.22s

Okay. But P2Sage is horrible. One second. The big issue and I do look forward to improvements making this easier. I mean, Rob Hamilton like lives and works out ofthe park. So I see him all the time and we talk about this shit. He lives at the park. Yeah, he lives here. The the main issue is at see him all the time and we talk about this shit. He lives at the park. Yeah, he lives here. The main issue is at the end of the day is it's not a dev who's receiving the funds after you die. Exactly.And it's and that's why like some of the biggest strides we've seen made is on like, it's on the U.X side of how that air is actually recovering the money. And yes, certain improvements will make that better and more secure. But I do think the biggest pain point is like on the UX of the air, the UX of the person receiving.

Speaker 53798.22s - 3802.58s

Like not using P2SH using schnor with frost.

Speaker 13802.82s - 3809.56s

Can I just interrupt this discussion? Do you guys hear the beep? Do you guys hear this constant beep? No. It's in your head, Matt PERSON.

Speaker 53809.66s - 3811.36s

It's on my side?

Speaker 13811.88s - 3818.68s

Okay, good. At least the listener doesn't have to hear the beep. I've been texting in the private chat, but no one's responding to me.

Speaker 53818.68s - 3824.64s

Johnny, can we add the beep just when Matt PERSON talks? I just hear constant beeps.

Speaker 13825.4s - 3826.1s

He says yes.

Speaker 53828.1s - 3828.7s

All right.

Speaker 43828.9s - 3831.58s

On the same vein, yet one more solution for

Speaker 53831.58s - 3861.06s

for a multi-sumance single-key vault here, but I think they're going to do more stuff. This Teria Inc. ORG Bitcoin wallet. Single-key vaults, create mobile vaults, optional encrypted iCloud backups. I've seen this one pop up here and there.I mentioned, I asked Odell PERSON if I have not tried it. These guys have contacted us. I just, you know, just spend with no time to overview. But like, I'd love to know if anybody has played with this. I'm very curious.

Speaker 03861.74s - 3870.54s

Their marketing page says they have multi-key volts, and they also have sovereign and assisted recovery options. Okay.

Speaker 13871.08s - 3878.28s

My basic understanding is that this is like a Y-combinator-born competitor to Kasa ORG, but I have not used it.

Speaker 53879.08s - 3880.4s

Do they have similar LPs?

Speaker 13881.38s - 3901.94s

No, because it's Y-combinator-born. Casa has like a band as an LP. I forget which band. But no, I mean, I believe this is like Silicon Valley Venturebacked. Quote unquote, the adults are in the room. This is how you do multi-sig and inheritance. Oh yeah. So we're totally

Speaker 53901.94s - 3905.12s

saved now. The adults are definitely they know what they're doing.

Speaker 03905.84s - 3913.58s

Is that, I haven't seen any, like, Bitcoin-specific companies out of Y Combinator ORG that I can think of. I'm pretty sure they're Y Combinator ORG.

Speaker 53913.86s - 3917.62s

No, no, Y Combinator ORG hates Bitcoin. Because they can't have shares.

Speaker 03917.92s - 3921.44s

I'm not disputing it. Like, they say it on their Twitter profile, their Y-combinator back.

Speaker 53921.64s - 3923.4s

Oh, there you go. Verified.

Speaker 03924.04s - 3927.42s

I'm not disputing. I'm saying this is surprising to me.

Speaker 53928.2s - 3949.54s

Steve PERSON, we need to get Thomas PERSON and the team there to start releasing updates for us to read about Bitkey the whole stack there, because I don't haveupdates. Code drops? Yeah, yeah, like we want commits. When's the last? Okay, I'll look into this. Code drops? Yeah, yeah. Like, we want commits. One's the, okay, I'll look into this. When's the last one?

Speaker 23951s - 3975.28s

Send a strong worded memo. I believe the team stances that they'll do code drops every software release. Okay. I mean, yeah, they should. Yes. We want to review the software updates.It's not at one time throw the code over the wall approach. I would complain about that.

Speaker 33975.62s - 3977.64s

Yeah, it looks like the last one was...

Speaker 53977.64s - 4001.34s

No, we just want the logs. We do, we have... Johnny PERSON goes through painstaking process of copying the GIT, you know, the change log. So people can, you know, it doesn't have to be all the commits, but the change log is often a little bit more summarized. And that's what we put in here. So we can pingstakingly torture people for three hours about software.Got it.

Speaker 24001.66s - 4003.46s

And the guests are get tortured too.

Speaker 54004.9s - 4014.88s

All right. 10101, use gasts get tortured too. All right. 10.10.1. Use correct leverage for a trader liquidation price. Automatically add a bunch of stuff. BTCMap Android PRODUCT, updated.

Speaker 14015.6s - 4020.42s

It was the chain smokers. The chain smokers invested in Kassum PRODUCT. Oh, nice.

Speaker 54020.58s - 4052.44s

Okay. That's kind of cool, man, to have a band. I mean. I know, right? It's kind of, you know, it's got attuned to. All right. BTC map android, updated. That brings toolbox updated. Version 24.04. All right, Project Spotlight. BarbecueR. Rust. Rust, implementation of barbecueR. Specification by Praveen Pereira, Canadian NORP.He got sponsored by Bull ORG.

Speaker 14052.62s - 4053.32s

Congratulations.

Speaker 54054.84s - 4057.46s

Most Bitcoin is Canadian NORP.

Speaker 14058.12s - 4062.58s

He got sponsored by Bo Bitcoin to write the barbecue QR in Rust PRODUCT.

Speaker 54062.88s - 4082.06s

Canadian NORP. And public domain, actually. The, he's writing also Kotlin and Swift PRODUCT bindings. So, so more can support this far superior, better Bitcoin QR standard.

Speaker 04082.68s - 4087.44s

Does this part normal? QR codes are only no normal too.

Speaker 54087.64s - 4143.16s

So it's clever. The spec is designed so that if it fits on the screen, it tries to go down to hacks, right? So like first it tries up to about 4 bytes.Sorry, 4 for, 4 kilobytes. It tries to show on screen as hacks. And then from that on, it starts to compress, compress, and then when he cannot fit on the screen anymore, that's when he goes into rotation.And he's using Zlib PRODUCT. What else? Oning, Dockerize Bitcoin plus L&D ORG plus PTC pay note, something like Umbro PRODUCT, but lighter and portable, something like raspy boat, but easier and automated. Like Uber.Remember when you were like trying to pitch your ideas to people and you say it's like Facebook, but for books or Uber ORG?

Speaker 04143.7s - 4147.86s

Is Aawning a synonym of umbrella? Yeah. Is that the idea? Yeah, it's like Facebook, but for books or Uber ORG. Is awning a synonym of umbrella? Yeah.

Speaker 14147.94s - 4155.52s

Is that the idea? Yeah, it's clearly a target. It's clearly targeting an umbrella. Yeah. It's very clever. Glad to see people have a flooded out here.Yeah.

Speaker 04155.68s - 4157.06s

These are hard times.

Speaker 14157.36s - 4160.18s

Who needs an umbrella when you're under an awning, right? Absolutely.

Speaker 04160.38s - 4160.6s

Yeah.

Speaker 54161.26s - 4165.88s

It's much more dignified. That's what they have in front of hotels. It's an honor.

Speaker 64166.5s - 4168.68s

And they might have an umbrella guy.

Speaker 54169.76s - 4177.7s

Bitcoin troubleshoot an app for Bitcoiners to troubleshoot each other's technical issues for Sats using Noster PRODUCT.

Speaker 34178.54s - 4179.1s

Okay.

Speaker 54179.68s - 4182.32s

Just type your seed phrase right here and I'll help you find your money.

Speaker 34183.58s - 4184.96s

But it uses Noster PRODUCT.

Speaker 54185.18s - 4187.52s

Your money is transferred. Group hug. Bitcoin transaction. type your seed phrase right here and I'll help you find your money. But it uses Noste PRODUCT. Your money's transferred.

Speaker 34188.16s - 4188.9s

Group hug.

Speaker 54191s - 4200.94s

Bitcoin transaction batching server. That's cool, I guess. Hodel ORG board. Free did. Freedit fork? I don't know if free ORG did.

Speaker 14201.98s - 4210.18s

Fredit ORG, right? It's got to be Reddit ORG, right? No, but free. Yeah, but it's a play on Reddit ORG. We're talking about naming, right? It's got to be Reddit, right? But free. Yeah, but it's a play on, right? We're talking about naming, right? It's clearly a play on Reddit ORG.

Speaker 34213.78s - 4214.06s

If it wanted to be Reddit, it should have had two D's and not two E's.

Speaker 54214.34s - 4214.64s

Yeah.

Speaker 64216s - 4216.66s

So it's going to be freed it.

Speaker 34217.06s - 4218.02s

Okay.

Speaker 54220.9s - 4222.28s

Between ESL ORG and dyslexia, this is not working for me.

Speaker 64223.44s - 4224.44s

It's software.

Speaker 54225.26s - 4244.84s

Software release in Unleash.com ORG. Add beta web search. I also charge for SATs per generation. A replacement of Vixero 7B with 22B PRODUCT in progress.Project Spotlight. M.B. MSB.

Speaker 34245.12s - 4245.4s

Oh. Oh.

Speaker 14246.1s - 4249.32s

Oh, I finally understand it.

Speaker 54249.74s - 4251.22s

Yeah, I just figured that out.

Speaker 14251.36s - 4255.8s

Yeah. Well, thank you. Yeah. Okay, MSB ORG.

Speaker 54256.22s - 4260.82s

Unstoppable Coin Joint ORG is no coordinators by super test net.

Speaker 14261.42s - 4271.72s

Yeah, it's spelled E-M-E-S-B-E. Good name. For what it's worth. IM-E-S-B-E. Good name. For what it's worth. I guess he demoed this at Bitcoin Plus Plus. Yeah, he did a workshop,

Speaker 34271.96s - 4274.18s

and I think this started as the workshop.

Speaker 14274.6s - 4276.32s

I love Super

Speaker 34276.32s - 4277.28s

and I appreciate

Speaker 14277.28s - 4279.5s

his contributions to Bitcoin.

Speaker 34280.82s - 4282.06s

But I will say in the

Speaker 14282.06s - 4287.86s

Stacker News ORG commentary, it seems like he didn't look at any existing coin joint projects.

Speaker 54288.06s - 4290.32s

It's exactly how he operates.

Speaker 14290.62s - 4314.94s

He was like finding out about them like in the comment section. Right. So to go back to the Jack Dorsey donation, I would say there is a tendency in the Bitcoin community to read the Stacker News ORG headline be like, unstoppable coin joints. Okay, our work is done. We've done it. Congratulations, team.Good job, everybody. Go home. Yeah, mission accomplished. That is not the case.

Speaker 54315.24s - 4318.56s

You know, he's listening to the show live, right? I gave him the guest link. Yeah.

Speaker 14318.96s - 4320.24s

Because I said Steve PERSON was coming.

Speaker 54320.5s - 4321s

I'm glad.

Speaker 44321.68s - 4322.66s

I thought you mean super.

Speaker 54322.78s - 4323.64s

Super is listening.

Speaker 44323.96s - 4324.76s

Yeah, Super is listening.

Speaker 24324.9s - 4325.58s

You met Jeff. I thought you were talking, super is listening. Yeah, super is listening. You met Jack PERSON.

Speaker 44326.62s - 4328.02s

I thought you were talking about super.

Speaker 24328.56s - 4328.84s

Yeah.

Speaker 44329.14s - 4330.7s

Thank you for clearing that, Steve PERSON.

Speaker 24330.9s - 4333.42s

Well, I mean, just like push on that a little bit more, right?

Speaker 14333.48s - 4337.42s

Like, I think that there's a real tendency where somebody will go and, you know,

Speaker 24337.44s - 4338.7s

figure out something on the whiteboard.

Speaker 14338.8s - 4341.08s

And then everybody's like, cool, problem solved.

Speaker 24341.18s - 4344.54s

Like, now we can do threshold, uh, snore signatures.

Speaker 34344.54s - 4346.92s

Now we can do like permissionless coin joins.

Speaker 24347.04s - 4347.68s

Like we can do all these things.

Speaker 14347.7s - 4348.1s

We would.

Speaker 34348.56s - 4349.1s

Yeah, we're done.

Speaker 64349.32s - 4349.72s

That's it.

Speaker 34350.12s - 4391.02s

Bitcoin ascendancy guaranteed. It's the George Bush PERSON mission accomplished meme is what it is. And like, you know, I think to what was being said a few minutes ago about like UX getting better for inheritance, it turns out that to make any of this technology actually accessible to real people there's like product building and ux and testing and hardening that has to get done and that's like 95% of the work like it's really really coolrindale real people don't exist yeah right yeah nobody actually uses bitcoin and so the uh like it's cool when people figure out some neat idea, but until it shows up in a product that somebody can actually push a button and use, it kind of doesn't matter.

Speaker 14391.94s - 4408.18s

And specifically with privacy software, like it's so reliant on this idea of anonymity set, like reliant on actual large amounts of users using it. And it becomes even more important than other types of software in that regard.

Speaker 54408.18s - 4413.78s

Wait, so we're not going to just like have ZK roll-ups and then that's it, Bitcoin has privacy. Well, we will.

Speaker 34414.34s - 4425.62s

But, you know, for that reason, Odell PERSON, I'm actually way more interested in coin swaps than coin joins, right? Because like with a coin join, your anonymity set is everybody who's also doing

Speaker 64425.62s - 4442.36s

coin joins. If you do like the, like Chris Belcher PERSON had a piece of software called teleport transaction. And the promise with something like a coin swap is that your anonymity set is like everybody who's using taproot, right? And that's like a much better set of people to be in.

Speaker 14442.8s - 4499.68s

Look, at the end of the day, I try and look at things from solution point of views. And I just think that everyone in the world should have financial privacy. So however we get there, it doesn't really matter to me. But I will say, like the big tradeoff issue with swaps is that it puts a lot of burden, like real world burden on early users of swaps. Yep.Because, you know, we don't live in a vacuum. And most like government entities or whoever is in your threat model are not going to be like, we'll not take your excuse of, oh, well, I just like swapped with a random person. Like, this isn't my UTXO. And so in I just, like, swapped with a random person. Like, this isn't my UTXO. And so in the beginning, like, there's real adoption hurdles there because in the beginning, there's a lot of pain for individual users.Because let's be honest, like, there'll be a lot of users that will be swapping UTXOs they do not want.

Speaker 34500.14s - 4505.2s

Nobody wants to be the first one to swap with North Korea GPE. Like, you don't want to be the first guy to do that.

Speaker 14505.28s - 4506.68s

I didn't say that. You said that.

Speaker 64506.9s - 4510.16s

But I'm just saying that it's a real thing.

Speaker 14510.16s - 4524.8s

And I will say that coin joins, specifically collaborative, collaborative transactions, coin joins, had this benefit that. And it was treated like, it's historically been treated like a negative. That is very obvious on chain.

Speaker 64525.3s - 4531.5s

I think there's an argument that in the real world, it's a positive because I, like,

Speaker 14531.58s - 4553.36s

you clearly did a coin joint. Like, it is very clear. If I do message encryption, it is clear that I'm using encryption when I'm chatting. It's, it's not clear what the chat is, what the message is, but it's clear that I'm doing it. And with swaps, it's not necessarily clear. Like, you don't, is that, it probably is that person's UTXO and not a swap.

Speaker 54553.6s - 4558.32s

This is the problem that I have with this conversation is that like, it's not either or. I agree.

Speaker 64559.12s - 4563.46s

You know, I want joint markets, you know, with coin swaps.

Speaker 54563.58s - 4563.88s

Yeah.

Speaker 64565.12s - 4566.96s

You know, like, let's mix everything.

Speaker 14567.04s - 4568.04s

Throw the sink at it.

Speaker 54568.78s - 4569.26s

I agree.

Speaker 14569.68s - 4586.38s

I don't disagree with that. Another tension and tradeoff here. Do you even like privacy? Like I said, solutions. At the end of the day, I just want, I just think people deserve financial privacy. And I think that we will live in a better world if people have financial privacy.Steve PERSON.

Speaker 24587.04s - 4588.24s

I totally agree.

Speaker 14588.98s - 4595.54s

Attention and challenge here is that most of the privacy solutions require extra cost.

Speaker 24595.84s - 4595.92s

Yeah.

Speaker 64596.24s - 4598.82s

Some a lot more, some a little bit more.

Speaker 24599.64s - 4630.12s

So I do, I totally agree. We need to strive for default solutions. Like more wallet adoption of various protocols, be it pay join, coin joins, coin swaps, whatever. There's a bunch of stuff within Lightning PRODUCT that's already improves privacy and a bunch more things that improve lightning privacy.We need to see more wallet adoption. But if it comes at significant cost, there's always going to be a wallet on the market that doesn't have that. And a lot of consumers will choose cheap over privacy.

Speaker 14631.7s - 4633.66s

Incentives need to be a line. Yep.

Speaker 54634.62s - 4664.36s

There is no number go up if people cannot spend their coins outside of the system. Yep. That's my point that I give to the people who are building big financial sort of legacy integrated solutions for Bitcoin. You know, it's great. We want to suck all the value into Bitcoin. But if they don't defend Bitcoin's censorship resistance, which privacy is a big part of it, the number go down.

Speaker 14665.38s - 4669.24s

No privacy, no freedom, no freedom, no wealth. That's right.

Speaker 24669.54s - 4692.98s

The inverse of what I just said, too, if it's very costly to use a privacy tool, it's going to attract more criminal behavior versus just everyday people, and it becomes more of a target. So the more we can create cheaper but still effective default solutions for everyone, the better.

Speaker 14692.98s - 4711.4s

I will say I 100% agree with you, but where we stand in Bitcoin's tradeoff model in terms of UTXS and whatnot, it is incredibly cheap in comparison to use Bitcoin in a horribly privacy inefficient way.

Speaker 54711.78s - 4721.8s

You know, we don't have to go that far. Just look at how much a Visa ORG credit card at a gas station costs, how much you lose on the buying, the spending, and everything else, you know?

Speaker 14722.34s - 4742.9s

Look, all you have to do is, all you have to do is watch transaction fees go up, uh, on chain transaction fees go up. And every influencer and their mother, uh, will just tell you just to send all your UTXOs to a single fucking address.Yep. Uh, consolidate, consolidate. And there you go. That's, that's the core of all of this.

Speaker 54743.12s - 4761.38s

No, the core of all this is the problem as influencers. We found the root of the issue. That is the core of the problem, is that we have people with very little fucking technical understanding, giving Bitcoin ORG official education. Right. I mean, we see this all the time. It's fucking brutal out there.

Speaker 24761.88s - 4775.72s

Trust wallet, which is a very popular wallet, probably more than every Bitcoin ORG wallet we like combined in terms of users. And they don't even support, or they only support reusing addresses. Yeah, no HD wallet.

Speaker 54777.16s - 4782.68s

Well, I mean, big blockchain.com. It was like that for a long time. But I mean, they did support that and they retracted.

Speaker 24783.4s - 4786.36s

But they probably figure out it's very hard to scale that.

Speaker 54786.84s - 4792.16s

Well, their actual argument is that most of our users are shick-corner's and your

Speaker 14792.16s - 4795.6s

Ethereum PRODUCT address never changes. So why would your Bitcoin address change?

Speaker 54795.9s - 4801.08s

Yes. I mean, really, like Ethereum PRODUCT is the problem of all the things in general.

Speaker 14801.08s - 4807.18s

I will say, Safe has said a lot of smart things, but his Ethereum PRODUCT is...

Speaker 54807.18s - 4809.94s

His mother asshole that all shit coins

Speaker 14809.94s - 4811.28s

were born from is...

Speaker 54811.28s - 4829.7s

That's right. It really is brutal. All right. Software releases and project updates Lightning and L2 Plus PRODUCT, which includes L3 PRODUCT.L&D version 0.18.0-R-C1.

Speaker 14829.88s - 4838.1s

You literally name this category L2 Plus PRODUCT. Yes. It was to trigger Cali. I'm a little bit triggered. Okay.

Speaker 54840.6s - 4852.98s

Add experimental support for imbound rounding fees and a bunch of other things I don't understand Mutiny Node Version 0.6.7 Mr. Mutiny.

Speaker 04853.28s - 4888.14s

Oh yeah. Yeah, we've been kind of under the hood for the past couple weeks. Basically, we're getting ready for on-chain support for Fetamette so you can send and receive on-chain,which is pretty fun. And I think that's going to be huge. I'm really excited about that. And then I've been doing some stuff on the front end to just performance optimizations. I think the wallet's going to just feel a lot snappier,load quicker, that kind of stuff. So that's what we've been focused on. And, yeah, hopefully we'll have some news in like a week or two.

Speaker 14888.74s - 4957.96s

I will say, I think given everything that's happened over the last few weeks and months, there should obviously be greater focused on self-hosting things. And so I've been playing around with StartOS, which is a completely false project that is like parented by Start9 ORG the actual business. But like StartOS makes it incredibly easy to run a mutiny stack. And I think it's like, like I think the package is is community maintained. I don't think you guys actually maintain that package, but I just, to me, that'sincredibly cool. It's like you can go to mutinyewallet.com, you can use your hosted stack or you can relatively easy. Like, I think most people that have bare level technical, uh, expertise can can not even buy you don't have to buy a box you can just flashStartOS on any machine and just click a button and you're running the full unity stack which is really cool. Yeah I think

Speaker 04957.96s - 5035.34s

we've always had that in mind that we wanted to be easy to self-host. I know I personally haven't been focused on that a lot recently, Ben PERSON kind of maintained some of that stuff. I want to get a Star-O-S box so I can, like, test that myself. Like, when we have a new release, we're like testing on the web, and we're testingin mobile browsers and the PWA and then the Android app, the iOS PRODUCT app. But I want to make sure that, you know, self-hosting becomes even more of a first-class citizen because I do think that's really important that people have that, the exit. And something you said earlier, something about the burden. Like if you think about all these things, like, who is the burden on? You know, and when the U.X isn't great, the burden is on the user.And we, you know, as long, longer time, Bitcoiners NORP are kind of used to that. Like, okay, I'm going to have to level up my skill set to get the privacy and self-s sovereignty I want. And so as someone who's making a product that's trying to make that accessible, like I'mtrying to take on as much of that burden, but I think people should be aware, especially when things are really in flux right now, like the product you love, just disappeared from your market. Understanding that that's a, you know,taking on the burden is a big part of being a big corner. So people should just be aware that that's kind of, it's part of what we signed up for.

Speaker 55035.54s - 5040.84s

So Matt PERSON, Matt from Starto-S sent his man a box.

Speaker 15041.28s - 5045.08s

No, but that's the cool part. It's like, he can just literally flash any old computer. No, send him a box. No, but that's the cool part. It's like he can just literally flash any old computer.

Speaker 55045.56s - 5047.04s

No, send him a box.

Speaker 35047.96s - 5094.7s

I really hope if more people are starting to put actual Bitcoin on like, whether it's StartOS or Umbrel PRODUCT or whatever, I've been giving some gentle prods to some of these projectsto like not run all this stuff in Docker and like use actual VMs. If people are actually talking about running actual Chalmian ORG eCashments with real money in them, I really hope thatthere's some leveling up of the actual run times because, yeah, I don't know. I would not be putting lightning nodes next to real Bitcoin wallets on Docker on like self-hosted think pad likeyour like bad things are just going to happen

Speaker 55094.7s - 5106.64s

I mean every time I see their booths I go to their booths and I try to preach the word of free BSD open BSD or net BSD it's like you know you're going to get 10x security by just like ripping out Linux PRODUCT out of there.

Speaker 35107.08s - 5121.7s

There's a package called Firecracker and you can use it with Docker containers and you'll get, you know, 10X better security. And it's just like an integration lift. I just wanted to clarify,

Speaker 05121.84s - 5125.58s

this is actually a point of contention, or not contention, a confusion for a lot of people.

Speaker 65125.7s - 5132.12s

If you run Mutiny PRODUCT on your Start 9, it's the same as if we're running Mutiny in the sense

Speaker 05132.12s - 5136.5s

that the node actually ends up in the browser, and your private keys actually end up in the browser.

Speaker 65137.04s - 5139.92s

So you're basically running a little web server.

Speaker 05140.94s - 5146.96s

So it would be cool, actually, if maybe the node was running on your start 9, but that's not how it's architected currently.

Speaker 15147.38s - 5173.76s

And the other key piece there too is like the Fedomint is not running in the Mutiny PRODUCT stack, right? Like one of the cool things that the Mutiny PRODUCT guys did is like when you launch Mutiny, it gives you like a Noster decentralized version of Trust Pilot PRODUCT that like rates external mints that you are choosing to connect to. But I, otherwise, I do agree with your concerns. Yeah. Oh yeah, another PSA along those

Speaker 05173.76s - 5179.68s

lines. The, uh, the, it looks like the free Madeira GPE, uh, mint is shutting down. So yeah,

Speaker 65179.68s - 5186s

we'll have support for switching hopefully soon. Okay. Or easier ergonomics.

Speaker 05186.02s - 5188.62s

You can already switch, but we'll try to make it easier if people.

Speaker 15188.9s - 5207s

Well, I think the big thing you guys need to add is like, so there's only really two apps that support Fetaments PRODUCT right now. It's FETI and Mutiny Wallet PRODUCT. And in FETI, like, they have the ability for like the Fedoment PRODUCT to send like this big broadcast message. Like, we're going to rug you in a month unless you leave.

Speaker 05207.44s - 5209.06s

And Mutiny PRODUCT doesn't have that yet.

Speaker 65209.5s - 5211.56s

So. Yeah, we're adding the rug,

Speaker 05211.86s - 5214.5s

rug capabilities to Mutiny PRODUCT for sure.

Speaker 25214.66s - 5246.8s

Rug notifications. One thing to note, though, that's not in that Mutiny PRODUCT stack, so it's not running on, it can't be self-hosted right now, is the LSP. Mutiny PRODUCT uses voltage right now. And this is a risk area with lightning in general.And, you know, Phoenix ORG exited the U.S. largest LSP in the world. And Voltage and Olympus are the only two LSPs that I'm aware of that are operational in the U.S.

Speaker 15246.92s - 5249.46s

What about CO12 or whatever you guys have?

Speaker 25250.06s - 5250.48s

Which I would.

Speaker 15250.82s - 5251.2s

Which one?

Speaker 25251.42s - 5252s

Or C equals.

Speaker 15252.38s - 5255.26s

C equals is not on ship.

Speaker 25255.92s - 5257.06s

CoQ12 is a vitamin.

Speaker 15257.98s - 5258.44s

Oh.

Speaker 25258.82s - 5259.76s

That's a good point.

Speaker 05259.76s - 5282.66s

We do want to have multi-LSP support. That's something else we are working on. One of the things Ben PERSON's been working on is adding anchor channel support. Because right now the voltage LSP is core lightning to do good channels with L&D. You need acre channels. I love just hearing these words and then like three weeks in, I'll ask them what they mean.

Speaker 35283.7s - 5294.82s

Steve PERSON, do you know what the status of the LSP spec is? Because I feel like in order to make, in order for like Mutu ORG need to be able to switch LSP interface, there needs to be like an interoperable LSP interface. I do.

Speaker 25295.7s - 5301.64s

So within the LDK project, there's a rust crate called Lightning Dash PRODUCT liquidity.

Speaker 65302.22s - 5305.72s

That is an implementation of the Lightning PRODUCT spec.

Speaker 25306.62s - 5451.68s

And a little bit more detail. There's several specs within the Lightning PRODUCT. The LSP spec. There's LSP1, which lets you open just a normal channel between two periods. LSP2 PRODUCT is the Just in Time channel, which is particularly of interest for a mobile user and like a new user.And there's several more specs, but this RustCrate does implement LSP2 PRODUCT. The like beta version of C equals supports that as well. So there's some users that are testing that out. And I believe voltage is working towards supporting the LSP to spec as well. Then projects like LDK node, which is a wallet node implementation using LDK,just automatically could use voltage C equals or any other LSP that supports that spec. So there's good progress on that front. In Italy a few weeks ago at the Lightning Summit EVENT, there was also a, all the folks working on the LSP spec met in person, and Bastian from A-Sync joined as well.And that was very valuable because he's been a little cautious about the LSP aspect group. He kind of felt like it was premature to spec it out because there's still so much to learn about running, you know, having a profitable LSP that's affordable for end users that technically works. But the good news is that like the LSP spec folks and Vastion are all on the same page now and really moving towards piggybacking off a liquidity ads and moving these into the lightning bolt specs,which I think is absolutely the right direction. Because if we can turn every lightning node into effectively an LSP, that's going to be more regulatory resistant, I think. And I think we should actually just get rid of the word LSP. There should be no longer be the term. Don't give them the terms.We don't want the term. But we do need the functionality. So there is agreement, I believe, by all the relevant developers, that liquidity ads will be improved and enhanced to support the mobile use case.And that'll be basically emerging of the LSP spec work and liquidity ads. And then it'll be perfect.

Speaker 15452.06s - 5460.78s

So what do we call them? Yeah, you just used it. What do we call them? Because I actually think it's like a... Lightning PRODUCT nodes, bolt specs. Lightning PRODUCT notes.Okay.

Speaker 25461.16s - 5528.82s

Nets and bolts. I think that's a step in the right direction, both for interoperability, but also reducing regulatory risk, but there's still regulatory risk. And so that is something that we should, I mean, the positive from the last couple of weeks of drama around DOJ action is it's getting, it's raising awareness from other people about these issues. And there's just more momentumabout how do we tackle some of these issues. Yeah, iron sharpens iron. It's certainly perfect solutions in place, but at least the conversation is being discussed. Because one thing that happened after Phoenix ORG exited, you know, almost every CEO of a major lightning company was reaching out to me, sort of complaining about that. So like four people.Sorry? Sorry, continue. Oh, sorry, I missed that. I was being the dick. I said four people. Yeah, four people.But my response was none of them are running an LSP. So they're not taking the same risks as a sick. So my response was, you should run an LSP in the U.S.

Speaker 15529.2s - 5552.52s

Well, I mean, I think Phoenix ORG overreacted. Completely. They were scared. I will say, like, you can't blame them, though. I mean, if you think you can do it better, do it better. Like, I think all the, you know, the random people just like chirping on Nosterand Twitter ORG like, oh, fuck you. Like, brother, it's like, okay, well, they do have a significant burden and

Speaker 55552.52s - 5557.94s

they should. One does not listen to the chirping people. Yeah. You just disregard the chirping

Speaker 15557.94s - 5562.32s

people. Focus on the people that are actually building things. Yes. But I will say, like, Steve PERSON,

Speaker 55562.32s - 5566.42s

you're completely correct. I mean, like two weeks before all this

Speaker 15566.42s - 5618.32s

happened, I had the co-founder of A-Sync on SIL ORG dispatch, and he was like, we've solved lightning.Like, we have Phoenix D. No, Pierre Marie PRODUCT. We have, he's like, we have Phoenix D.It's super easy. You never have to run a lightning node. You just like, just do a couple command lines It's super easy. You never have to run a lightning node. You just like to do a couple command lines. You're done. You're ready to go.You can receive lightning payments. And then two and a half weeks later, three weeks later, we've left the US GPE market, you know. Everyone's like, oh, shit. But that's, when you look at like open development, you look at open protocols, like, that's where real development and improvement happens, right, is where pressure happens. If you don't have the pressure, then you do the easier thing.And once you can't do the easier thing, then you figure out how to do the harder thing. Oh, Lightning PRODUCT.

Speaker 55619.26s - 5637.56s

Breeze PRODUCT, SDK version 0.4.0, change background, redeem, swap notification message. Blockstream, green iOS, still no PSPD support, support for push notifications to receive lightning payments, empty lightning account, export lightning logs.

Speaker 15637.56s - 5640.62s

Do they put that in the release? No, still no PSBT support?

Speaker 55640.88s - 5643.7s

Oh, yes. It's in every release. They start of it now.

Speaker 15644.24s - 5646.56s

Have we covered this twice now in this show?

Speaker 25647s - 5650.16s

No, this is another project that didn't have PSBT support.

Speaker 55650.2s - 5651.8s

No, the green iOS PRODUCT.

Speaker 25652.46s - 5657.32s

Yeah, green iOS PRODUCT. The green has a wallet and it has lightning. It has both.

Speaker 55658.08s - 5659.08s

I'm just saying. Anyway.

Speaker 25659.62s - 5659.88s

Yeah.

Speaker 55660.14s - 5662.36s

Well, take it up with Johnny PERSON. Johnny probably repeated it.

Speaker 25662.36s - 5664.12s

I think you're right. Johnny PERSON did repeat it.

Speaker 55664.36s - 5666.98s

That's it. We expect nothing less than Hara Kitty PRODUCT.

Speaker 25668.98s - 5674.16s

Boles exchange, boats back-in, version 3.6.0.

Speaker 55674.32s - 5679.36s

Add capability to connect multiple elements, nodes with different transactions relay policy,

Speaker 15679.76s - 5682.52s

selectively deciding which none to use.

Speaker 25682.7s - 5684.22s

Still no PSBT support.

Speaker 55684.86s - 5685.92s

Johnny PERSON, no oops.

Speaker 15686.12s - 5687.74s

We need Hara Kitty PRODUCT on video.

Speaker 55688.6s - 5690.34s

But use a plastic sword.

Speaker 45693.74s - 5695.12s

Swiss Bitcoin Pay PRODUCT,

Speaker 55695.6s - 5697.58s

version 2.013.

Speaker 45698.64s - 5699.92s

Adcom.gov.gov.gov.

Speaker 55700.24s - 5701.88s

Android.g.m.

Speaker 15702.16s - 5705.14s

I didn't realize the private chat doesn't auto scroll.

Speaker 55705.94s - 5707.88s

It does. You just have to be on the bottom.

Speaker 15708.9s - 5717.98s

Yeah. No, I mean, I called out the beep, audio, and Johnny PERSON was like, there is no beep, see a professional. Fucking hilarious. I wouldn't have said anything. Sorry, Johnny PERSON.

Speaker 55718.78s - 5728.26s

The problem is that Matt PERSON tries to use his, like, fancy board with the farts and things there on his studio. And that always messes up everything.

Speaker 15731.38s - 5734.9s

I just tried to click it, but the SD cards not in, so I couldn't.

Speaker 55737.98s - 5752.36s

Swiss Bitcoin Pay version 2.0.13. LNP2P bought version 0.10.2. Geiser version 0.8.0. Did they ever integrate Noster on Geyser PRODUCT? Yeah. Oh, cool.

Speaker 15754.42s - 5758s

They have almost, it's pretty cool, actually. They will create a pub key for you if you don't have one.

Speaker 45758.3s - 5764.66s

Nice. And then they broadcast everything through Noster PRODUCT. They're trying to be more of a Noster native business. Very nice.

Speaker 15765.74s - 5767.54s

Geysers great. nice. Guys ORG is great. Yeah.

Speaker 55768.68s - 5781.08s

Project Spotlight. C. LARC. I think implementation of ARC's second layer payment protocol for Bitcoin. How do they do this with all CDV? Are they just, it's just sort of like a...

Speaker 35781.08s - 5782s

They use it CTV.

Speaker 55782.26s - 5782.62s

Oh, okay.

Speaker 35782.72s - 5783.94s

So it's not real.

Speaker 55784.06s - 5784.22s

Yeah.

Speaker 35784.98s - 5786.44s

It runs on Red Chests PRODUCT. it CTV. Oh, okay. So it's not real. Yeah. It runs on red chest.

Speaker 55786.8s - 5787.84s

Okay. Nice.

Speaker 35788.68s - 5793.64s

Helm wallet, the lightning wallet, even your grandma can use.

Speaker 55794s - 5797.22s

My grandma uses a cold card.

Speaker 35797.98s - 5800.72s

My grandma uses a leather wallet with cash in it.

Speaker 55800.96s - 5802.28s

There you go. Smart woman.

Speaker 35802.58s - 5805.86s

None of this fucking internet money that doesn't exist.

Speaker 55806.38s - 5808.26s

Look, by the time we get this shit together,

Speaker 15808.48s - 5810.7s

like, we're going to be the grandmas and the grandpas.

Speaker 55810.84s - 5812.44s

You don't have to focus on the grandmas.

Speaker 15813.78s - 5817.7s

We'll age with the protocol. It'll be fine.

Speaker 55817.82s - 5824.72s

I made some news once by saying that the proverbial grandmother doesn't exist. She doesn't. People were very offended by it.

Speaker 15824.72s - 5826.4s

She's using a leather wallet with cash.

Speaker 55826.66s - 5846.74s

That's right. Okay, so before we go to Noster PRODUCT, did you guys see this article that just dropped? Exclusive, NPRCO ORG, Katerine Merr PERSON is chairman of the board for signal messaging app,but her history as a U.S.-based GPE, so U.S.-backed regime change operative,

Speaker 65848s - 5854.32s

opposition to a free and open Internet have led some critics to fear Signal PRODUCT may be compromised.

Speaker 55855.46s - 5862.7s

Yeah, I guess, I think Signal PRODUCT is great. I think it's a clear net benefit to anyone who uses it,

Speaker 15862.76s - 5865.5s

period, full stop. Just assume it's being back.

Speaker 55865.9s - 5867.86s

It's the NSA

Speaker 15867.86s - 5881.16s

can hear you. I would say, I would say that, like, this started as a government, US GPE government funded project. They received government funding for a long time. I believe it just ended.But so is Tor PRODUCT.

Speaker 55881.6s - 5882.4s

So is Internet.

Speaker 15882.82s - 5883.76s

Yeah, so is Tor PRODUCT.

Speaker 55884.18s - 5885.76s

None of this should surprise you.

Speaker 15885.76s - 5887.74s

The Spooks ORG used to, like, you know,

Speaker 55887.96s - 5892.58s

have the most amount of mathematicians working in any single entity.

Speaker 15893.42s - 5916.16s

The best was, I had a live Robert Hall recap where I had Marty PERSON bring up, like, tour projects funding transparency reports, whatever, and it was like 35% U.S. GPE government. She's like, what? How is this government? Live on air? So good.But just be aware. Yes. This looks like a hit piece. Yeah, this feels like cancel culture.

Speaker 55916.76s - 5923.32s

Yeah, there is something weird going on. So the Tucker Carl, some people want you to use telegram.

Speaker 15923.56s - 5933.52s

Signal PRODUCT's too good. Signal PRODUCT is a little too nice, you know, like... They're angry that we have like emojis and gifts and shit in our encrypted messenger and like too many people are using it.

Speaker 55933.56s - 5941.4s

But to be honest, though, if it's easy to use and it's available to everyone, it's probably backdoor. Just assume that.

Speaker 15941.56s - 5947.94s

I don't, I mean, I don't, I don't think so. I would unequivocally go on the record right now, and maybe I'm wrong.

Speaker 55948.58s - 5951.7s

You're definitely wrong. It's okay. You can go on record wrong. It's common.

Speaker 15951.9s - 5996.42s

Okay, fair enough. I mean, at least one of us goes on record. And I would say that, uh, I think if when it comes to targeted actors, they can hit them with Pegasus PRODUCT or something like that, relatively easily. And then they have access to their full phone, including their whole signal record. But I think, I think right now what we're seeing is signal is too good. And these arelike the soft responses that happen, right? Like the random cancel culture. Having Tucker Carlson PERSON, who, who by the way, is not a nobody, he's a guy that has probably the largest single audience of any independent broadcaster in the world. Constantly fud signal and then promote telegram, which is just straight up spyware and just records everything you fucking do forever.

Speaker 55997.14s - 6004.64s

Remember, he applied to work for the CIA, as Putin PERSON said it. And he got the job. No, he didn't get the job. That's how it works, right?

Speaker 16004.86s - 6007.06s

Yeah, those are the guys that get paid the most.

Speaker 56007.44s - 6038.74s

That's right. All right. Noster. Software release and project updates. Primo version iOS. Sorry, iOS version 1.6.7. Top Zaps. Fucking awesome. Love top Zaps. I talked about on the last episode, but now it's live. You can finally pay to say something snarkyand be on somebody else's real estate. It's very, very satisfying. Note reactions, thread view, revamp.

Speaker 36039.18s - 6060.52s

Hey, sorry, really quick. I said Clark PERSON uses CTV. It's because I found that they were doing like push, push, they were pushing a no-op four in one of their scripts, but I just like checked out the repo and I'm clicking around.It looks like maybe they don't do CTV. It looks like maybe they're using CTV to tell you what the cost would be.

Speaker 56060.68s - 6061.96s

Very complicated multi-sig.

Speaker 36062.24s - 6074.02s

Yeah, I'm trying to figure out what this does. I think it might be like a big-sig? Yeah, I'm trying to figure out what this does. I think it might be like a big like Musig or big, big like, you know, pre-signed transaction thing, but I'm trying to click around and figure it up.

Speaker 56074.22s - 6079.62s

Well, it's always like that, right? You either have covenants or you have like, you know, the most complicated multi-sig ever made.

Speaker 36079.62s - 6085.08s

Yeah, CTV is like non-interactive multi-sig, right? It's like one way to think about it.

Speaker 16085.24s - 6085.46s

Yes.

Speaker 36085.94s - 6086.34s

Oh shit.

Speaker 16086.52s - 6092.24s

More people should say that. That's actually, yeah. It's a nice, nice tidbit. It's nice and punchy.

Speaker 06093.3s - 6102.82s

Exciting primal news. Yes. Although I love arc facts. Who doesn't? But, uh, did you know you can run arc in an arc?

Speaker 16103.24s - 6103.66s

Oh, man.

Speaker 56103.74s - 6105.18s

It reminds me of small talk.

Speaker 16106.38s - 6119.56s

I wanted to, I mean, what I was going to do is I was going to give Paul and Rindell the credit because they both stood up after I, they've been standing since the last time we talked about. No, I didn't stand up. I did. No. Okay, well, Rendell PERSON is.

Speaker 06119.68s - 6137.88s

Do you always stand? You don't have to. It looks like you're standing. I don't have like a powered voice. I've got a crank. I have to crank my standing this. What's the good news about primal?So the primal for its wallet uses the strike back end. And strike has not been able to pay Fediments ORG this whole time.

Speaker 66138.8s - 6147.38s

And now they can. They fixed it. So if you're on a Federation and Mutiny or in the Feddi PRODUCT app and a primal user wants to pay you,

Speaker 56147.54s - 6200.6s

they can pay you, which is very excited. Yeah, that was not intentional. Lightning PRODUCT continues to be interoperable, a great layer two. All right. And then Primal Android PRODUCT, they do feature parity with a bunch of stuff for iOS PRODUCT. And web, they also have top zaps thread view revamp and extended note reactions um NAS 2XNIP 49 support that's cool which one's NIP 49 it's the one that does the the the bunker in the SAC ORG bunker I thinkthere's a lot there's a lot of nips between the nips the sack of bunker. Oh, nice. I think. There's a lot. There's a lot of nips. Between the nips, the bips, and the boats. And the blips. The blips. I'm starting to get old, man, I think, or it's just too much design space to pay attention to.

Speaker 16201.14s - 6207.7s

I message MVP like three times a week. I'm just done. I just, why someone else do it?

Speaker 56208.3s - 6260.22s

Yeah, just tell me what to think, please. Mostro, version 0.11.6, remove other unwrap and minors cosmetics, Nip 40 expiration event. Nice. Project Spotlight, Iris Docs PRODUCT, collaborative document canvas chat on NOSTER.That's really cool. Roaster, Fettiment Module for signing Noster PRODUCT events using Roast. That's awesome. Who knows? Maybe we see the next Frost Roast PRODUCT, sort of like advancements because of Noster PRODUCT.Magster ORG, Noster-based publication platform. If people don't know, Flickster PRODUCT was Noster-based as well.

Speaker 16262.44s - 6265.28s

If those last three letters didn't include you in, I could tell, because I entered with stir.

Speaker 56265.9s - 6288.9s

That's right. Noster PRODUCT DVM, NISTRIN, NAP-90, data-of-any machine framework. So we do support the DVMs on Unleashed PRODUCT, and nobody uses it. Yeah. Nothing like engineer-based engineering as opposed to demand-based engineer. Gotta love it.

Speaker 36289.84s - 6292.86s

NOS drive, experimental Google Drive PRODUCT relay.

Speaker 56294.72s - 6296.46s

All right. Boasts.

Speaker 16298.38s - 6305.1s

Wait, wait, just on NOS drive, like, no one's actually going to use that, right? I don't know. I mean, like... It was the top of trending yesterday. People got very excited about it. Oh, this saves Nostra events to your Google Drive., right? I don't know. I mean, like... It was the topic trending yesterday.

Speaker 36306.42s - 6307.06s

People got very excited about it.

Speaker 16308.98s - 6309.1s

Oh, this saves nostril events to your Google Drive PRODUCT.

Speaker 36309.98s - 6314.22s

All right, I'm here for this. I think more people should be using Google Drive PRODUCT superfluously.

Speaker 06324.72s - 6325.32s

I've got a thread going with Rob Hamilton and Alan Farrington that what we're going to do is Google Sheets ORG has an API that lets you do per cell editing.

Speaker 36329s - 6329.28s

So we're going to write an API that lets you update.

Speaker 56330.36s - 6330.7s

Put Bitcoin on?

Speaker 36331.12s - 6342.86s

No, no, no. We're going to build an L2 PRODUCT because it's like L2C's in Bitcoin. We're going to build an L2 that stores all of your token balances in a Google ORG sheet and then uses open timestamps to timestamp it to Bitcoin.

Speaker 56343.4s - 6355.1s

So it's going to be like an L2 that's run entirely out of Google ORG sheets. Yeah, you can't DDoS Google. Yeah. And then you guys wonder why Sailor PERSON doesn't want to fund open source developers. This is all permission. It's required

Speaker 36355.1s - 6361.58s

zero consensus changes. I mean, first of all, the beauty of Bitcoin is that devs don't control Bitcoin.

Speaker 16362.34s - 6369.86s

So regardless, so when you do have the few devs that might, you know, be building superfluous

Speaker 36369.86s - 6396.24s

shit or stuff that you might consider attack on Bitcoin, that shit will never get merged. It doesn't matter. And I will say, like, all it takes is like one or two Calys or Craig Rawes PERSON that make this whole thing fucking worth it. Like, all it takes is like a couple devs that really, really fucking move to the needle and everything is fucking worth it.And then my second point would be you can't DDoS Google ORG. They will just cut you from the internet.

Speaker 56397.68s - 6399.72s

No, they are literally half the internet.

Speaker 16399.92s - 6405.86s

Yeah, be careful of playing with fire there. I understand the need to troll Google ORG, but...

Speaker 26405.86s - 6439.84s

Another great example, Matt PERSON, of a developer that makes all the difference is 0XB10C. Yeah. He's actually got... He's been funded by Coinbase, Brink, Spiral, and now OpenSats ORG. There we go. Trifecta.He's consistently produced amazing network monitoring tools that have real impact, that detect which mining pools are mining OFAC transactions and when a pool is not mining OFAC transactions. He did a lot of analysis around non-standard transaction usage, which is valuable to know about and what the trends are.

Speaker 56439.94s - 6443.54s

Steve PERSON, nice segue there. Do you want to just make your little rant?

Speaker 26443.54s - 6448s

I want to talk about it. Yeah, mining central. And then most recently, he's proof. Do you want to just make your little ranch? I want to talk about it. Yeah, mining central. And then most recently, he's proven.

Speaker 56448.24s - 6458.74s

Nice slip in, impressive. He's proven the... He's a good dev. Yeah, he's proven the FTP, you know, basically,

Speaker 26458.84s - 6460.72s

amp pool is more...

Speaker 16460.72s - 6467.1s

It's like 47% of the hash rate. It's like, they're the mother pool. They're the asshole that all pools come out of.

Speaker 56467.44s - 6470.56s

What's it to Yuri PERSON? Why are you doing it? Steve PERSON. Why is?

Speaker 26470.8s - 6471.26s

Yeah, why?

Speaker 56472.32s - 6478.68s

FPPS is has centralization tendencies because the pool is taking the financial risk.

Speaker 26478.68s - 6484.72s

So if you have small hash rate and you're running FPS, you face, you're at a much greater risk of bankruptcy.

Speaker 56486.66s - 6487.98s

And due to bad luck than if you're larger.

Speaker 26488.46s - 6510.72s

So if you're a small pool and PPLNS, which is where the miners take the risk, financial risk, has basically died. Like Brains ORG even gave up. And now Brains ORG just uses ant pool. And so that's the reason for the centralization. I think another reason ant pool gets so much hash rate is that they're owned by Bitmain ORG.

Speaker 56511.12s - 6512.5s

No, but why are they hiding it?

Speaker 16512.82s - 6524.6s

Well, because it's not in anyone's best interest to see 47% of the hash rate controlled by one person. So Jehan PERSON wanted to eat his cake and have it too. Like, it's very clear.

Speaker 26524.6s - 6540.2s

Who's hiding it? Do you mean like the, like, finance pool and brain? Why are they hiding? Well, they have their own brand. I mean, why is it in their,I mean, I agree, it's arguably disingenuous. It is disingenuous.

Speaker 16540.32s - 6542.28s

It's not arguably disingenuous.

Speaker 56542.28s - 6570.8s

See, like, my theory is it's because they want to skim, you know, I don't know if you guys know about it, but way back, all the mining pools used to skim off the top on the, on the hash rate shares, right? Like they don't, like, it's very easy to do bad accounting on that. So, you know, maybe they're doing that because they want to show less hash rate for the actual pool itself. So, you know, maybe they're doing that because they want to show last hash rate for the actual pool itself. And then they can take more of that pay, you know.

Speaker 26577.14s - 6577.24s

Also, I've heard, and I think maybe on your show last week talked about examples in the past of like G hash.

Speaker 56582.1s - 6584.46s

Well, miners just, once they got too big miners left, I don't know if we're going to see a repeat of that. Because Bitmain ORG has tremendous power.

Speaker 26585.22s - 6587.56s

They have almost half the hash rate,

Speaker 56587.9s - 6589.88s

control of that, and transaction selection,

Speaker 66590.2s - 6591.34s

and they sell all the chips.

Speaker 56592s - 6593.06s

So imagine you're a mine,

Speaker 66593.1s - 6595.48s

let's say Matt is the miner, and I'm Bitmain ORG,

Speaker 26595.94s - 6603.8s

and then Matt says, hey, I want a $100 million order of mining rigs, and I'll be like, I notice you're not using Antpool PRODUCT.

Speaker 66604.16s - 6606.38s

Are you interested in switching over to amp pool?

Speaker 26606.5s - 6608.2s

No? Okay, I'll put you on the wait list.

Speaker 16609.2s - 6615.54s

There's still Watts Miner ORG, which was founded by an X-pit main guy.

Speaker 56615.54s - 6628.14s

Same guy. The guy who created the S-9, which is arguably like the AK-47 of PRODUCT Bitcoin miners. By the way, that's how all harder works, like when somebody starts a chip, did they change the other place?

Speaker 16628.26s - 6719.14s

So you still have what's minor and obviously like Block PRODUCT is working on their own chip. But I will say that, look, Gihon PERSON touched the stove. He's my favorite enemy in Bitcoin.Like by far like the single best evil villain. We've never had a better evil villain than Jihon. But he touched the stove with B-Cash PRODUCT. And he never went full, you know, nuclear war. He never moved the majority of his hash to B-Cash PRODUCT. He realized that his golden goose was Bitcoin. He lost a shit ton of money, shit ton of reputation. It set him back fucking decade. I question if he's actually going to push it to the limit.I think it was intentionally deceptive, intentionally deceptive because he didn't want people to know he was 47% of the hash. I think he knew he had money to be made in terms of those types of pools in that he could be the man in the middle there. And like MVP PRODUCT said, skim off the top. And it was just easy money as long as nobody knew about it. Now people know about it.We got past the halving. He knew he was going to get like incredibly lucrative blocks during the having. He wasn't going to make any changes at that point. I mean, there was a 37 Bitcoin transaction fee block that his pool mafia mined, and then the next one after that, in rapid succession, not accusing him of anything, but it did happen that way. But he's no longer involved with,

Speaker 26719.18s - 6724.04s

I mean, he got booted out of bitming. Yeah, allegedly. He founded Bit Deer ORG.

Speaker 16724.24s - 6725.82s

Bit Deer ORG, publicly traded business.

Speaker 26726.72s - 6729.04s

No, and it's a new Bitmae ORG.

Speaker 16729.42s - 6731.32s

That's how they rename companies in China GPE.

Speaker 56731.4s - 6732.42s

Yeah, the new Bitmain ORG.

Speaker 16733.24s - 6734.04s

He's involved.

Speaker 56734.28s - 6735.42s

There's no way he's not involved.

Speaker 16735.56s - 6736.4s

He's fucking Chiad ORG.

Speaker 56737.12s - 6742.86s

Sidebar PERSON, I really like the, like, people often don't understand how, like, hardware,

Speaker 16743.38s - 6745.5s

there's very few people who understand the things,

Speaker 56745.76s - 6764.46s

and then they are essentially how companies are built around it. Like the SMC got competition from Samsung ORG because the guy who invented most of the processes at the SMC to make the SMC happen fled to Korea and was teaching at a university there because he had a three-year non-compete.

Speaker 16764.72s - 6769.58s

His fishing boat just happened to land in Korea and then he teached for three years.

Speaker 56769.58s - 6816.64s

That's right. It just happened. The Samsung in like one year becomes like the next largest thing. Pretty amazing story. I highly recommend, oh man, if I can still find the YouTube links, I'll put on the show notes. But like there is a guy who does a lot of mini documentaries on hardware in Asia LOC. It's totally worth watching. So it's a very, very interesting topic for everyone. Everyone should be interested in this topic.Anyways. All right. Let's mention some boosts here. Amy Fender, first, they come for your DMNs, and I did not speak out because I did not use DMNs,

Speaker 66816.64s - 6820.18s

that they come for your KYC-3C-E-X,

Speaker 56820.72s - 6827.04s

and I did not speak out. I can't read this, man man to dyslexic for this, to call repetitive,

Speaker 06827.44s - 6834.06s

because I did not use K-Y-C-free C-E-X. Then they came for custodial mixers,

Speaker 56834.56s - 6844.7s

and I did not speak because they did not use custodium mixers. Then they come for coin joints and disprovenants. Then come for me, and there was no one left to speak out for.

Speaker 16845.4s - 6853.38s

Can I just shout out 8 Mithrander PERSON for his great. He did the same exact shout out for both Cilil Dispatch ORG and Rabbit Hole Recap all three shows.

Speaker 56854.02s - 6857.5s

He can't stop the signal. Yes.

Speaker 16858.1s - 6859.84s

Loak PERSON, I don't know.

Speaker 56860.38s - 6940.62s

That's the correct answer. J.C. Denton PERSON, great panel, as always. Vake, another boring week in Bitcoin. A second breakfast, great group therapy session. Thank you, sir.I agree. Ben Defad PERSON, send some sats. T. Maker Man ORG. Thank you, NVK, Ben, Rob, and Rendell PERSON. Yeah, the last show, the panel was much better. So that's why we get the boost.We don't have any for today. The show comes on the next show. Anyways. Right. Tech tip of the day. Oh, yes.The Aski PRODUCT emoji, a small library. They replace a certain keyboard. No, it's not a library. It's just an OSX ORG text replacement bundle that you can install on your Mac and then it syncs with your phone as well. So you can have proper old-school emojis.Opt-Tac ORG. Okay, so from the Optech ORG, guys, anything you guys want to discuss quickly or shall we move on as usual? Okay, moving on as usual. Okay, lightning, ocean launches, lightning payouts. That's huge.

Speaker 26941.68s - 6943.8s

Lots of bolt 12 momentum, the past.

Speaker 56943.96s - 6945.18s

Yeah, finally.

Speaker 26946.26s - 6949.16s

You love to see the non-custodial LN URL

Speaker 56949.16s - 6951.56s

finally getting some adoption and spreading.

Speaker 26952.2s - 6952.48s

Yeah.

Speaker 56953.02s - 6959.34s

I hosted an X-spaces and like a dozen app developers came on stage

Speaker 26959.34s - 6961.32s

and all were integrating Bolt 12 PRODUCT.

Speaker 56961.44s - 6963.06s

So it's really nice to see momentum.

Speaker 26963.18s - 6963.62s

That's awesome.

Speaker 56963.96s - 6965.68s

You know, standards are weird that way.

Speaker 26965.68s - 6970.48s

It's like nobody wants them until they see everybody using them.

Speaker 36970.58s - 6971.78s

So it's always that catch-22.

Speaker 26972.02s - 6974.8s

Because nobody wants to waste time on something that, you know,

Speaker 36974.84s - 6975.9s

might not catch on.

Speaker 26976.54s - 6976.7s

Yep.

Speaker 36977.04s - 6979.74s

And even strikes playing around with it.

Speaker 26980.06s - 6980.26s

Yeah.

Speaker 36980.42s - 6981.24s

And they run L&D.

Speaker 26981.56s - 6984.42s

But there's a project called L&DK PRODUCT,

Speaker 36984.78s - 6994.92s

which is like a separate process you run if you're an L&D wallet to be able to pay both 12 invoices or offers and then forward onion messages.

Speaker 26995.54s - 6995.92s

Very cool.

Speaker 56997.78s - 6999.74s

This is really, really cool.

Speaker 27000.94s - 7006.26s

NIP 104 Double Ratchet N to N encryption DMs by Jeff G

Speaker 57006.26s - 7016.06s

I've been screaming about That's what I'm talking about in a half an hour I know We were going to give you the shieldright after I finished this sentence

Speaker 47016.06s - 7016.68s

Okay sorry

Speaker 17016.68s - 7017.3s

Sorry

Speaker 47017.3s - 7017.94s

Sorry

Speaker 57017.94s - 7049.46s

And I've been I've been talking about this for like I don't know Like two years now that you know There's this very easy gray-beard way of doing encrypted DMs that, you know, used to be called OTR, and then Signal PRODUCT sort of like had their own, but it uses the same principle of double ratchet.You just essentially use ephemeral keys. Is it OTP? Is that different?

Speaker 47050.02s - 7050.74s

One-time pad?

Speaker 57050.82s - 7051.28s

OTP.

Speaker 47051.88s - 7052.34s

No.

Speaker 57053s - 7053.34s

No, no, no, no.

Speaker 47053.38s - 7054.02s

Sorry, OTR.

Speaker 57054.58s - 7054.94s

OTR.

Speaker 07055.06s - 7055.64s

OTR. Rector, off the record.

Speaker 57056.02s - 7056.88s

That was the name of the standard.

Speaker 07057.68s - 7059.58s

How does Tucker Carlson PERSON feel about this nip?

Speaker 57060.42s - 7061.88s

He is rubbing the nips.

Speaker 07063.66s - 7064.9s

This one is really good.

Speaker 57064.9s - 7065.16s

Is Jeff PERSON an open-sats grant recipient? But not yet, I guess. He is rubbing the nips. This one is really good.

Speaker 07066.98s - 7067.74s

Is Jeff an OpenSats ORG current recipient?

Speaker 57069.16s - 7071.48s

Not yet, I guess.

Speaker 07078.62s - 7078.92s

So Jeff PERSON, if you are not, please reach out because, you know, if you need the box to make this happen more.

Speaker 57083.6s - 7084.2s

His GitHub bio says, full-time builder of Noster Freedom Tech supported by OpenSats ORG. Oh, nice.

Speaker 07084.8s - 7086.6s

Me and MVP PRODUCT board members have no.

Speaker 57086.62s - 7087.8s

I was going to ask him on air.

Speaker 67088s - 7090.42s

And I probably voted on his application.

Speaker 57090.68s - 7091.8s

Sorry for the spoilers.

Speaker 07092.46s - 7093.46s

What should I ask him?

Speaker 17093.96s - 7095.9s

You have any pressing questions for him?

Speaker 57096.2s - 7096.5s

Yes.

Speaker 17098.5s - 7101.76s

So Matt PERSON is going to have him next

Speaker 57101.76s - 7118.02s

after this show on Citadel Dispatch to talk about this nip. You should ask him how far this is from the OTR spec, because I'm not super familiar with the signal spec that he's similar.

Speaker 17118.56s - 7122.64s

Whatever spec that he picked, I haven't read the whole thing. How far is from OTR? I haven't read the whole thing.

Speaker 57124.26s - 7136.08s

How far is from OTR? How he is handling the ephemeral keys between the different clients? That's super interesting to know. What kind of tradeoffs are we going to see?

Speaker 17140s - 7143.28s

Right, like if I'm like talking to someone in the strudel and then I go to Damos PERSON and then I don't have my ephemeral keys, so I can't see shit.

Speaker 57143.9s - 7160.78s

Yeah, which is fine. It's still, you know, most people are single client users and we still get some privacy, right? So, like, I'm okay with those tradeoffs. I just want to understand the extent. I see you.What else? If we have to be worried about messages in flight

Speaker 17160.78s - 7165.84s

while the keys are being exchanged. Good questions. Thank you.

Speaker 57166.64s - 7190.62s

And who's going to be the first client to implement this so we can see it? Like, you know, a client that people actually use. Nothing that Pablo PERSON's working on. And, yeah, this is super, super cool, man. Like, if this is implemented the way I hope it is, like this is a major breakthrough for Nostr PRODUCT. Yeah, we need better DMs.

Speaker 17190.82s - 7194.96s

Like, just like left curve IQ. No, not just that, man.

Speaker 57194.96s - 7203.44s

Like, you can actually pass, like, you know, you can have your Zaps be more private. Like, you can have private zaps that are actually private.

Speaker 17203.54s - 7213.72s

Yeah, I don't think private zaps are... I think it's really cool. I think that's an engineer thing. I think users want public zaps. They want the social signal that like...

Speaker 57213.72s - 7233.34s

No, no, for payments, for actual payments, you know, for markets. Because like the problem right now, if you're using ZAPs as a way to actually buy and sell data or other shit on Noster Bay's LOC markets. It would be nice if all that traffic of coordination for payment was done very privately. Right. I agree.

Speaker 17233.44s - 7235.94s

And burn the keys. Burn the femoral keys after.

Speaker 57236.24s - 7242.54s

That's not a zap. In my opinion, the zap is inherently public, but words matter, in my opinion.

Speaker 47243.34s - 7245.78s

No, but, no, it's an actual technical spec.

Speaker 17246.16s - 7247.86s

We call them private apps in mutiny.

Speaker 47248.22s - 7248.48s

Yeah.

Speaker 57249.54s - 7249.9s

All right.

Speaker 07250.7s - 7255.76s

Lightning Tip Bot and L&Tips PRODUCT are retiring.

Speaker 17257.06s - 7262.42s

Oh, Callie PERSON mentioned growing human financial cost and running, but, okay.

Speaker 57262.78s - 7272s

Yeah, they cost money. Callie PERSON, if you're listening, can you please apply for an open site grant? It's way overdue, or do we already support him? We don't.

Speaker 17272s - 7272.32s

Okay.

Speaker 57272.48s - 7275.12s

Actually, 1031 ORG gave him a no-strings-attach grant.

Speaker 17275.52s - 7277.26s

Okay, so, Collie PERSON, can you please apply?

Speaker 57277.9s - 7340.32s

You know, we know you build, so it's a little easier. It's very easy to review an application like that. Talk about applications. I've been talking to a non- it's not public yet, but I've been talkingto somebody. It's a person, real person. Okay, so the state, the state of ultra easy to usesingle-sig phone wallets is very direy, right? Like we have all this cool wallets trying to do cool shit, interesting things. But I don't think we have a very good simple phone wallet that does no lightning. Okay? All it does is single fucking sig very simply to replace what Moon used to be on onboarding people onto their first seed, right? And I've been talking to somebody who may jump into that project as a FOSSproject to just work on that, like make a very, very, very simple phone wallet.

Speaker 17340.32s - 7344.32s

Yeah, we just need like a simple on-chain fucking wallet that doesn't have all the other shit in there.

Speaker 57344.4s - 7352.26s

Yes, thank you. That's it. You're welcome. So that need like a simple on-chain fucking wallet that doesn't have all the other shit in there. Yes. Thank you. That's it. You're welcome. So that will be a cool open sets possible.

Speaker 27352.72s - 7357.66s

Would you consider green wallet too complex because it has liquid and other stuff? No.

Speaker 57358.02s - 7359.44s

It's a multi-sig by default.

Speaker 27359.44s - 7360.96s

It's a multi-sig by default.

Speaker 17360.96s - 7362.5s

No, it's multi-sig by default.

Speaker 27362.72s - 7363.64s

It's fucking expensive.

Speaker 17363.92s - 7364.7s

But that's largely.

Speaker 27364.9s - 7365.3s

It's a mess. But it's multi-sig, but it's largely hidden-sig by default. It's fucking expensive. But that's largely... It's a mess.

Speaker 17365.84s - 7368.5s

But it's multi-sig, but it's largely hidden from the youth.

Speaker 27368.6s - 7373.32s

We just need like a simple PSBT PRODUCT wallet that like connects to an

Speaker 17373.32s - 7378.02s

electricium server that just does like the one thing. It just does it well. You can make labels.

Speaker 57378.26s - 7383.18s

And it shows it. Yes. Very simple. How wallets used to be.

Speaker 17383.88s - 7385.24s

Build it with BDK ORG.

Speaker 57385.46s - 7386s

Yeah.

Speaker 07387.06s - 7388.54s

BDK ORG based.

Speaker 57398.46s - 7398.84s

You know, like with just the basics is how you get people into like using PSBTs and or just a local signing, on chain, nothing else.

Speaker 07404.38s - 7404.54s

And then, you know, as the project sort of grows and gets more interesting, you can add a few other trimmings around.

Speaker 57406.08s - 7409.76s

But the focus is simple. My argument would be like it's probably what like blue wallet started as,

Speaker 17410.18s - 7411.92s

and like no longer is. Yes.

Speaker 57412.22s - 7412.68s

No lightning.

Speaker 17412.84s - 7414.68s

The key is no lightning.

Speaker 57414.84s - 7416.5s

Can we include the Bitcoin?

Speaker 17416.8s - 7418.48s

Can we include the Bitcoin puppet?

Speaker 57419.06s - 7419.7s

Here comes Bitcoin.

Speaker 17420.04s - 7420.36s

Yes.

Speaker 57421.48s - 7422.12s

Maybe.

Speaker 27423.24s - 7424.46s

I'm pro Bitcoin puppet.

Speaker 37425.02s - 7436.76s

I was going to throw an item into the list here, which is, Yes, please. Here comes Bitcoin. Maybe. I'm pro-Bitcoin puppet. I was going to throw an item into the list here, which is, Yes, please. Here Comes ORG Bitcoin.com with the Bitcoin puppet, just released a whole bunch of new stickers. So if you're using those graphics for things, there's a whole bunch of new ones.

Speaker 17436.88s - 7442.5s

Here Comes ORG is in the domain name. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's here comes Bitcoin.com ORG.

Speaker 57442.9s - 7449.26s

Oh, man, somebody's going to so make a porn version of this. Oh, dot work, excuse me.

Speaker 37449.86s - 7450.12s

Yeah.

Speaker 27450.6s - 7459.5s

Rendell PERSON is our biggest fan. We're at the top of the leaderboard, biggest fan, the project. Thank you. Yeah, 100% biggest fan. Appreciate it.

Speaker 57461.36s - 7466.36s

Yeah, no, anyways, like, I really, really like I miss having that simple wallet.

Speaker 27466.8s - 7468.94s

Like, you know, maybe it should be called simple wallet.

Speaker 57468.96s - 7470.4s

Super simple wallet, yeah.

Speaker 27470.62s - 7471.48s

Super simple wallet.

Speaker 57471.64s - 7472.1s

There you go.

Speaker 17473.02s - 7473.68s

S.S.

Speaker 57473.68s - 7477.88s

No, no, it needs to be something that translates to like a very horrendous porn thing.

Speaker 37478.16s - 7483.44s

I haven't used a blue wallet in a while. Like, what's the complicated thing in blue wallet these days? Is it lightning support?

Speaker 57483.78s - 7485.18s

Well, first of all, is JavaScript.

Speaker 37485.7s - 7487.66s

Do they close the custodial wallet yet?

Speaker 17487.74s - 7489.16s

Like, they kept saying they were going to.

Speaker 37489.3s - 7489.5s

Yeah.

Speaker 17489.7s - 7490.78s

Yeah, they closed that a while ago.

Speaker 37490.88s - 7492.48s

I talked to, someone came to the park.

Speaker 17492.54s - 7494.24s

He's like, no, I've been using it.

Speaker 57494.88s - 7506.38s

So blue wallet is actually very decent, like, UX-wise. The problem is there's a lot of features. There's a lot of, like, things going on and you can add this kind of wallet, that kind of wallet. No, it's just one. Simple.

Speaker 17507.06s - 7513.08s

This is a simple on-chain wallet with coin selection and labels. Yes. It doesn't exist.

Speaker 57514.38s - 7528.6s

I tried convincing Craig PERSON many times to have somebody for Sparrow and make into a phone UI, but I don't think it's going to happen. Craig PERSON can't do all the things.

Speaker 17529.42s - 7530.7s

No, we have to clone him.

Speaker 57530.76s - 7534.52s

We have to clone him. We have to clone Doc Hacks PERSON. We just need a cloning program.

Speaker 17535.18s - 7538.04s

Donate to the cloning fund at opensats.org ORG.

Speaker 57539.06s - 7542.22s

It's our latest initiative.

Speaker 17543.5s - 7544.04s

I don't think.

Speaker 57544.16s - 7559.26s

So like people that don't participate in software, like, on an everyday basis, like, they don't understand that, like, when they wave their hands about, like, FOSS, right? They think it's just, like, you know, thousands of people doing things.

Speaker 17559.66s - 7562.34s

It's like, our lives rely on 27 people.

Speaker 57562.64s - 7603.48s

Yeah, no, it's insane. Like, most projects, especially the best projects, have the least amount of contributors. You know, like, and that's not a bad thing. You know? No, but we've got to support those people.I know. We also need to clone them. All right. Business and finance, no. Skipping. Funding.Funding, yes. OpenSats receives additional $21 million from Start Small ORG. Thank you, Jack PERSON. AKA Jack PERSON. This donation will top up our funds, operational budget, with $50 million going to general fund,$5 million to Noster Fund, $1 million to operational budget.

Speaker 17603.48s - 7717.24s

And to be clear, like our operational budget was incredibly lean. Zero. Up until this point. And it was only funded by Jack PERSON from his previous donation. This time around, Jack PERSON was kind enough to ask what we needed. And I said, like, we need to have at least some kind of cushion therebecause our operations budget essentially Gigi PERSON full time, because the board makes no money, GG ORG full time and a couple part-time people. And it's like, and then you have to go out and raise again. And it's ridiculous. It's absolutely ridiculous. And we could end up in a situation where we have $30 million in multi-sig Bitcoin to give out to people and no money to pay people to actually distribute it. And one of the key issues we have is we had over 600 applications this year. And we didn't provide good feedback to people.And it's hard. Like, I mean, MVP PRODUCT wants a technical writer. Like, what about a technical emailer? Like, someone who can email you and give you proper feedback on your declined application. So it's important that we have a little bit of wiggle room on the operation side. And I'm very grateful for Jack for giving the million dollars to operations fund.Obviously, I'm incredibly grateful for the 15 to general and the five to Noster PRODUCT. But that operations piece, like, I don't think you, I don't think people realize, like, everything is just, it's like 35 people in a room that are like hanging on by a fucking wire, just like hoping everything works out. Like, it's the exhaustion's real like people are pushing themselves limit that's how the best technologies run yeah this is the future of finance folks otherwise you end up with mozilla yeah it's the future finance but you know the board the board does

Speaker 57717.24s - 7725.6s

earn earning to uh you know people bitching on noster that they didn't get approved uh because the corporate people.

Speaker 17725.78s - 7733.84s

I'm very grateful to have the pleasure of being the product of many conspiracy theories now. But see, the problem is, Matt PERSON,

Speaker 57733.88s - 7736.78s

like you talk about your votes publicly, which you shouldn't.

Speaker 17737.12s - 7751.38s

I rarely talk about my votes publicly. No. I don't think votes should be public. I think there's a reason why there's a secret ballot. But I think people should get their priorities in order and focus on who their real enemies are.And I'm not asking people to blindly trust me.

Speaker 57751.5s - 7752.4s

Spiro PERSON is the enemy.

Speaker 17752.62s - 7756.68s

Clearly, obviously. That's why we had Steve PERSON on, because you've got to keep your enemies close.

Speaker 57757.94s - 7768.2s

Oh, we're going to get to him. We're going to get to him. OpenSats grant long-term support for Shoshua Van Ghani PERSON. Bowl 12. Both 12.

Speaker 17768.42s - 7769.12s

That's fucking go.

Speaker 57769.92s - 7779.8s

Spider News ORG. Steve PERSON is the enemy. Renews grants to Bitcoin Xavier PERSON and Matt Morehouse. Steve PERSON?

Speaker 17780.2s - 7781.14s

Care to comment? Yeah.

Speaker 27781.54s - 7810.58s

Matt Morehouse PERSON might not be a helpful name, but he has been doing several years of really good work in Lightning PRODUCT. He does focus on fuzz testing for L&D and CLN. And I think he's adding LDK now, because he sees enough usage of LDK to warrant his time. But, you know, he's found a number of critical flaws in CLN and L&D.So that's an underinvested area, just quality testing and finding vulnerabilities.

Speaker 57811.68s - 7859.34s

Steve PERSON, do you want to, like, I think like from time to time is nice that we remind people what these orgs are about and a little bit of just like they're, you know, like, I would just say getting to operations or anything, but just like people understand, you know, open sets runs with this, like, you know, there is no funds for the board and it's like nine people that vote and we have the committees for things.And that's kind of how we do that. And the mandate is very narrow, right? Like it's just like Bitcoin, Noster and like any open source project. Privacy, things related. No. Anyways.It's a somewhat narrower... It's still somewhat related to Bitcoin ORG. Anyways, point is we have that in the... How the thing is run, right? Talk us a little bit about Spiral ORG, if you don't mind.

Speaker 27860.14s - 7957.02s

Sure. Spiral ORG has a full-time team. There are 12 of us. Nine of whom are engineers. The full-time teams largely focused on LDK development, but we have a couple that work on Bitcoin Core PRODUCT and privacy projects.And then we have a grant program, and we've given grants to over 50 developers across 20 countries the past four years, and that spans about a dozen different projects. given grants to over 50 developers across 20 countries the past four years. And that spans about a dozen different projects. The scope, though, is even narrow what you just said for OpenSat ORG. We don't, Nostra PRODUCT is not in scope. Love Nostr, which is not in our scope.Bitcoin's within scope. So, you know, I think one thing is across different orgs, like chain code and brink are largely Bitcoin core focused. Spirled a lot broader. And then OpenSats ORG is even a little bit broader. But, yeah, our grants, I mean, Connor Ocas PERSON is on the team. It's largely the two of us vet grant applications and decide when something's beyond our technical means. We'll reach out to different devs in the space to learn more.But to Matt PERSON's point, it is a lot of effort to do a good job. Because as everyone here knows, there's a lot of technical projects and proposals in this space. And it's really hard for one person to have the technical depth to understand which projects are important and potentially impactful.

Speaker 57957.66s - 7979s

Yeah, I mean, like, you know, the resources are scarce, right? I mean, like, you know, there's quite a bit nowadays, but still, you know, you can't just approve everything. So like, you know, and it's hard to dedicate the time to review things, especially on a technical level, right, to understand, like, if it's possible, if the person can build it, you know, like, is it, is it a thing that's going to do good?

Speaker 27979.76s - 8034.44s

Yeah. And there's been a few who have applied to Spiral ORG, and we said no, and they went on to do great things. So good for them. We're not perfect. We don't have a perfect signal. But we also, another thing I like about the program, what we've done, every one of our grantees are all but one or something like that. The vast majority are first time funded for open source Bitcoin development.So it's been a goal to bring in more talent to Bitcoin ORG. So like when we got started, oh shit. Like we didn't want to just go hire like Greg Maxwell PERSON, Peter Wola PERSON and, you know, all the top devs in the space.We wanted to bring new people into the fold. You like the virgins. And they've gone on. Yeah, sure. And we have like 15 or more alumfrom the program who has so many bad comments I can make right now.

Speaker 68035.24s - 8035.84s

So many.

Speaker 28036.22s - 8038s

Found their own Bitcoin companies or

Speaker 58038s - 8050.78s

joined Bitcoin companies full time. So. Sorry, Steve PERSON. I love you. No, I mean, listen, you want to build the best soccer team that's going to win the World Cup? It's like, you know, get fresh talent that are not like, you know, over their heads and

Speaker 18050.78s - 8057.38s

put together a team of young people. Out of all the comments, that's the one you went with. Got it. Yeah.

Speaker 58057.46s - 8087.6s

I've just, I had to go very divergently from where my head went. I, I, um, yeah. Sorry, guys, I,I, I wanted to, to go back to the Mostro ORG, uh, update because I forgot that that is a B2P coin join thing, uh,that these guys are trying to build, uh, using Noster PRODUCT, uh, for coin join coordination.

Speaker 18094.78s - 8097.48s

I think Noster PRODUCT is like obviously, it's part of the solution in terms of Bitcoin privacy, in terms of the communication part.

Speaker 58097.96s - 8104.02s

It's great. You have two projects that have no privacy, Bitcoin and Noster PRODUCT. They're both actually horrible for your privacy.

Speaker 18104.34s - 8105.12s

That's right.

Speaker 58105.12s - 8107.88s

But together, they could be the solution.

Speaker 18108.84s - 8119.84s

You know, I've been fighting with people on Twitter a lot about this on trying to explain why Bitcoin cannot have privacy on chain, right?

Speaker 58120.08s - 8125.06s

And, you know, a lot of these people are not technical, so like you can't just sort of say, you know, because of this.

Speaker 18125.16s - 8126.44s

But Snowden asked for it.

Speaker 58126.74s - 8134.56s

No, no, it's not that. It's like it's integrity, right? Integrity needs to be public. It needs to be the opposite of private, right?

Speaker 18135.84s - 8140.88s

So, so you have to prove that integrity, right? There's no just belief in integrity.

Speaker 58141.5s - 8167.58s

So Bitcoin and Noster PRODUCT are fully public public and you do all the things in Bitcoin and Noster PRODUCT publicly, right? Like every single transaction is public and that's how you account the system. So we can't have privacy on chain. Sorry, Snowden. You know, we're going to have to do that on a second layer for you.

Speaker 18168.48s - 8190.42s

You liked how I, I'll take full ownership of this. I just, I just quoted Snowden's tweet because he didn't post it on Noster, and I just signed it Snowden. So it wasn't me who said it. It was him who said it. And then I just signed out of Noster for about 36 hours. Let you guys fight about it.

Speaker 58190.48s - 8190.9s

Yeah, no.

Speaker 48191.34s - 8192.76s

Unfortunately, like, you're welcome.

Speaker 18193.2s - 8199.46s

You know, Snowden and a lot of these guys, they have a very pedestrian understanding of Bitcoin,

Speaker 48200.02s - 8204.68s

which is unfortunate because they're gigantic names and there are people who are trying to do good.

Speaker 58204.68s - 8222.7s

And, you know, people who understand things technically. So, you know, they give very poor commentary on Bitcoin and then confuses people even more. How come can this hero of Bitcoiners say, you know, something that is wrong?

Speaker 18222.78s - 8230.94s

Well, this has been an argument that has predated Bitcoin all the way to the cypherpunk movement, right? Which is, yes.

Speaker 58231.28s - 8238.96s

And Satoshi PERSON kind of, Satoshi sent a wave that rocked the cypherpunk movement in terms of

Speaker 18238.96s - 8248.24s

their core principle has always been private transactions. And he was like, we can actually do this thing, but like you don't get privacy.

Speaker 68249.08s - 8257.22s

And a lot of cyberpunks missed the boat on Bitcoin early on because they thought it couldn't work because it didn't have privacy baked in.

Speaker 18258.12s - 8269.14s

So this is not a new argument. I will throw it out to the ride or die Bitcoin review people that happened to be with us two and a half hours into this show.

Speaker 58269.26s - 8272.26s

I mean, the Venn diagram of those two audiences is about 100%.

Speaker 18272.26s - 8283.5s

I am not supporting this change, but confidential transactions do break inscriptions. So, consider it. Yeah, no, it's hard.

Speaker 58283.62s - 8334.82s

I mean, like, you know, there is this funny, for example, Greg Maxwell PERSON. He talks about harder wallets in a very poor manner in 2014 when harder wallets were absolute garbage. And then people like the spooks or, you know, JWs or whatever crazy person that hates harder wallets brings it up. Like, look, Greg Maxwell says Hard Wallets PRODUCT or bet. You know, there is this very fascinating, you know, Eternal September conversations in Bitcoin where people try to usethis sort of like arguments that are no longer valid or arguments that are like, you know, things that you can't do in Bitcoin. They bring it from the past. And they try to make this very sort of an unfeeling technical observations.

Speaker 28335.12s - 8336.28s

But anyways.

Speaker 58342.78s - 8343.04s

I'm getting an action item for me to follow up with Greg PERSON to get him to update his hardware wallet review.

Speaker 28343.8s - 8344s

Yes, on Reddit ORG.

Speaker 58345.36s - 8345.7s

I think it can still edit the post.

Speaker 18347.24s - 8352.16s

And get him to bless certain. Greg's going to be like, everyone used Big Key PRODUCT. That's right.

Speaker 58354.14s - 8363.58s

And then Steve PERSON's going to report back. He's like, I got him. I got him to do the thing. That's right. Anyways. All right.I'm not going to go through this.

Speaker 18364.78s - 8365.84s

I have another podcast. Matt PERSON, the other podcast can wait. I mean not going to go through this. I have another podcast.

Speaker 58367.42s - 8367.86s

Matt PERSON, the other podcast can wait.

Speaker 18370.04s - 8371.76s

I mean, like Jeff PERSON is waiting. I'm not a podcaster.

Speaker 58374.38s - 8374.82s

He can just join and we can do another two hours here.

Speaker 18378.1s - 8378.98s

The only podcaster on this stream right now is Paul PERSON.

Speaker 08382.56s - 8383.28s

I have to make material improvements to a software project.

Speaker 38383.8s - 8390.2s

Yes. I have to go post more. Here comes Bitcoin stickers all over Twitter ORG. Rindal PERSON, where do you

Speaker 58390.2s - 8393.84s

find the time to read papers and be on Twitter ORG at the same time?

Speaker 18393.84s - 8405.62s

We know Rindale PERSON has his priorities in order because he read Microset Strategies ORG, K.YC on the blockchain spec, at a bar at 2 a.m. So we know his priorities are in order. Yes. That's right.All right, boys. Final thoughts. Mr. O we know his priorities are in order. Yes. That's right. All right, boys.

Speaker 58405.82s - 8407.34s

Final thoughts. Mr. O'Dale PERSON.

Speaker 18407.76s - 8409.88s

Stay humble stack sets. Rindale PERSON.

Speaker 38410.44s - 8411.72s

Stay humble stack flats.

Speaker 18412.76s - 8413.2s

Steve PERSON.

Speaker 38413.96s - 8420.68s

Stay tuned for here comes Bitcoin initiatives that are going to really wow you.

Speaker 28421.7s - 8423.4s

Okay. I'm going to be wowed.

Speaker 38423.4s - 8423.96s

All right.

Speaker 58424.28s - 8424.92s

It's going to be great.

Speaker 38425.52s - 8426.16s

Mr. Paul PERSON. Opcats'm going to be wowed. All right. That's going to be great. Mr. Paul.

Speaker 58427.12s - 8427.64s

Upcat.

Speaker 38428.36s - 8429.74s

Stay humble, stat cats.

Speaker 58431.84s - 8456.56s

Up dog. Listen, guys, thank you so much for coming and like, you know, doing group therapy for two and a half hours. This is very useful to somebody, I hope. Listen, nobody listens to the end. So you can say anything you want right now.It's certainty. There's full privacy. Even the NSA ORG is no longer listening. So with that, everybody have a wonderful day. Peace.

Speaker 48457.1s - 8457.32s

All right.

Speaker 58457.36s - 8457.82s

See you guys.

Speaker 48461.36s - 8462.3s

Thanks for listening.

Speaker 58462.54s - 8464.62s

For more resources, check the show notes.

Speaker 48464.62s - 8466.36s

We put a lot of effort into them.

Speaker 58466.66s - 8474.28s

And remember, we don't have a crystal ball. So let us know about your project. Visit bitpoint.review to find out how to get in touch.